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The Conservative Case for Gay Marriage


Posted: Jan 13, 2010

By Theodore B. Olson | NEWSWEEK
Published Jan 9, 2010

Why same-sex marriage is an American value.


Together with my good friend and occasional courtroom adversary David Boies, I am attempting to persuade a federal court to invalidate California's Proposition 8—the voter-approved measure that overturned California's constitutional right to marry a person of the same sex.
My involvement in this case has generated a certain degree of consternation among conservatives. How could a politically active, lifelong Republican, a veteran of the Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush administrations, challenge the "traditional" definition of marriage and press for an "activist" interpretation of the Constitution to create another "new" constitutional right?

My answer to this seeming conundrum rests on a lifetime of exposure to persons of different backgrounds, histories, viewpoints, and intrinsic characteristics, and on my rejection of what I see as superficially appealing but ultimately false perceptions about our Constitution and its protection of equality and fundamental rights.

Many of my fellow conservatives have an almost knee-jerk hostility toward gay marriage. This does not make sense, because same-sex unions promote the values conservatives prize. Marriage is one of the basic building blocks of our neighborhoods and our nation. At its best, it is a stable bond between two individuals who work to create a loving household and a social and economic partnership. We encourage couples to marry because the commitments they make to one another provide benefits not only to themselves but also to their families and communities. Marriage requires thinking beyond one's own needs. It transforms two individuals into a union based on shared aspirations, and in doing so establishes a formal investment in the well-being of society. The fact that individuals who happen to be gay want to share in this vital social institution is evidence that conservative ideals enjoy widespread acceptance. Conservatives should celebrate this, rather than lament it.

Legalizing same-sex marriage would also be a recognition of basic American principles, and would represent the culmination of our nation's commitment to equal rights. It is, some have said, the last major civil-rights milestone yet to be surpassed in our two-century struggle to attain the goals we set for this nation at its formation.

This bedrock American principle of equality is central to the political and legal convictions of Republicans, Democrats, liberals, and conservatives alike. The dream that became America began with the revolutionary concept expressed in the Declaration of Independence in words that are among the most noble and elegant ever written: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

Sadly, our nation has taken a long time to live up to the promise of equality. In 1857, the Supreme Court held that an African-American could not be a citizen. During the ensuing Civil War, Abraham Lincoln eloquently reminded the nation of its found-ing principle: "our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in liberty and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal."

At the end of the Civil War, to make the elusive promise of equality a reality, the 14th Amendment to the Constitution added the command that "no State É shall deprive any person of life, liberty or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person É the equal protection of the laws."

Subsequent laws and court decisions have made clear that equality under the law extends to persons of all races, religions, and places of origin. What better way to make this national aspiration complete than to apply the same protection to men and women who differ from others only on the basis of their sexual orientation? I cannot think of a single reason—and have not heard one since I undertook this venture—for continued discrimination against decent, hardworking members of our society on that basis.

Various federal and state laws have accorded certain rights and privileges to gay and lesbian couples, but these protections vary dramatically at the state level, and nearly universally deny true equality to gays and lesbians who wish to marry. The very idea of marriage is basic to recognition as equals in our society; any status short of that is inferior, unjust, and unconstitutiona
The United States Supreme Court has repeatedly held that marriage is one of the most fundamental rights that we have as Americans under our Constitution. It is an expression of our desire to create a social partnership, to live and share life's joys and burdens with the person we love, and to form a lasting bond and a social identity. The Supreme Court has said that marriage is a part of the Constitution's protections of liberty, privacy, freedom of association, and spiritual identification. In short, the right to marry helps us to define ourselves and our place in a community. Without it, there can be no true equality under the law.
It is true that marriage in this nation traditionally has been regarded as a relationship exclusively between a man and a woman, and many of our nation's multiple religions define marriage in precisely those terms. But while the Supreme Court has always previously considered marriage in that context, the underlying rights and liberties that marriage embodies are not in any way confined to heterosexuals.

Marriage is a civil bond in this country as well as, in some (but hardly all) cases, a religious sacrament. It is a relationship recognized by governments as providing a privileged and respected status, entitled to the state's support and benefits. The California Supreme Court described marriage as a "union unreservedly approved and favored by the community." Where the state has accorded official sanction to a relationship and provided special benefits to those who enter into that relationship, our courts have insisted that withholding that status requires powerful justifications and may not be arbitrarily denied.

What, then, are the justifications for California's decision in Proposition 8 to withdraw access to the institution of marriage for some of its citizens on the basis of their sexual orientation? The reasons I have heard are not very persuasive.

The explanation mentioned most often is tradition. But simply because something has always been done a certain way does not mean that it must always remain that way. Otherwise we would still have segregated schools and debtors' prisons. Gays and lesbians have always been among us, forming a part of our society, and they have lived as couples in our neighborhoods and communities. For a long time, they have experienced discrimination and even persecution; but we, as a society, are starting to become more tolerant, accepting, and understanding. California and many other states have allowed gays and lesbians to form domestic partnerships (or civil unions) with most of the rights of married heterosexuals. Thus, gay and lesbian individuals are now permitted to live together in state-sanctioned relationships. It therefore seems anomalous to cite "tradition" as a justification for withholding the status of marriage and thus to continue to label those relationships as less worthy, less sanctioned, or less legitimate.

The second argument I often hear is that traditional marriage furthers the state's interest in procreation—and that opening marriage to same-sex couples would dilute, diminish, and devalue this goal. But that is plainly not the case. Preventing lesbians and gays from marrying does not cause more heterosexuals to marry and conceive more children. Likewise, allowing gays and lesbians to marry someone of the same sex will not discourage heterosexuals from marrying a person of the opposite sex. How, then, would allowing same-sex marriages reduce the number of children that heterosexual couples conceive?

This procreation argument cannot be taken seriously. We do not inquire whether heterosexual couples intend to bear children, or have the capacity to have children, before we allow them to marry. We permit marriage by the elderly, by prison inmates, and by persons who have no intention of having children. What's more, it is pernicious to think marriage should be limited to heterosexuals because of the state's desire to promote procreation. We would surely not accept as constitutional a ban on marriage if a state were to decide, as China has done, to discourage procreation.

Another argument, vaguer and even less persuasive, is that gay marriage somehow does harm to heterosexual marriage. I have yet to meet anyone who can explain to me what this means. In what way would allowing same-sex partners to marry diminish the marriages of heterosexual couples? Tellingly, when the judge in our case asked our opponent to identify the ways in which same-sex marriage would harm heterosexual marriage, to his credit he answered honestly: he could not think of any.

The simple fact is that there is no good reason why we should deny marriage to same-sex partners. On the other hand, there are many reasons why we should formally recognize these relationships and embrace the rights of gays and lesbians to marry and become full and equal members of our society.

No matter what you think of homosexuality, it is a fact that gays and lesbians are members of our families, clubs, and workplaces. They are our doctors, our teachers, our soldiers (whether we admit it or not), and our friends. They yearn for acceptance, stable relationships, and success in their lives, just like the rest of us.

Conservatives and liberals alike need to come together on principles that surely unite us. Certainly, we can agree on the value of strong families, lasting domestic relationships, and communities populated by persons with recognized and sanctioned bonds to one another. Confining some of our neighbors and friends who share these same values to an outlaw or second-class status undermines their sense of belonging and weakens their ties with the rest of us and what should be our common aspirations. Even those whose religious convictions preclude endorsement of what they may perceive as an unacceptable "lifestyle" should recognize that disapproval should not warrant stigmatization and unequal treatment.

When we refuse to accord this status to gays and lesbians, we discourage them from forming the same relationships we encourage for others. And we are also telling them, those who love them, and society as a whole that their relationships are less worthy, less legitimate, less permanent, and less valued. We demean their relationships and we demean them as individuals. I cannot imagine how we benefit as a society by doing so.

I understand, but reject, certain religious teachings that denounce homosexuality as morally wrong, illegitimate, or unnatural; and I take strong exception to those who argue that same-sex relationships should be discouraged by society and law. Science has taught us, even if history has not, that gays and lesbians do not choose to be homosexual any more than the rest of us choose to be heterosexual. To a very large extent, these characteristics are immutable, like being left-handed. And, while our Constitution guarantees the freedom to exercise our individual religious convictions, it equally prohibits us from forcing our beliefs on others. I do not believe that our society can ever live up to the promise of equality, and the fundamental rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, until we stop invidious discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation.

If we are born heterosexual, it is not unusual for us to perceive those who are born homosexual as aberrational and threatening. Many religions and much of our social culture have reinforced those impulses. Too often, that has led to prejudice, hostility, and discrimination. The antidote is understanding, and reason. We once tolerated laws throughout this nation that prohibited marriage between persons of different races. California's Supreme Court was the first to find that discrimination unconstitutional. The U.S. Supreme Court unanimously agreed 20 years later, in 1967, in a case called Loving v. Virginia. It seems inconceivable today that only 40 years ago there were places in this country where a black woman could not legally marry a white man. And it was only 50 years ago that 17 states mandated segregated public education—until the Supreme Court unanimously struck down that practice in Brown v. Board of Education. Most Americans are proud of these decisions and the fact that the discriminatory state laws that spawned them have been discredited. I am convinced that Americans will be equally proud when we no longer discriminate against gays and lesbians and welcome them into our society.

Reactions to our lawsuit have reinforced for me these essential truths. I have certainly heard anger, resentment, and hostility, and words like "betrayal" and other pointedly graphic criticism. But mostly I have been overwhelmed by expressions of gratitude and good will from persons in all walks of life, including, I might add, from many conservatives and libertarians whose names might surprise. I have been particularly moved by many personal renditions of how lonely and personally destructive it is to be treated as an outcast and how meaningful it will be to be respected by our laws and civil institutions as an American, entitled to equality and dignity. I have no doubt that we are on the right side of this battle, the right side of the law, and the right side of history.

Some have suggested that we have brought this case too soon, and that neither the country nor the courts are "ready" to tackle this issue and remove this stigma. We disagree. We represent real clients—two wonderful couples in California who have longtime relationships. Our lesbian clients are raising four fine children who could not ask for better parents. Our clients wish to be married. They believe that they have that constitutional right. They wish to be represented in court to seek vindication of that right by mounting a challenge under the United States Constitution to the validity of Proposition 8 under the equal-protection and due-process clauses of the 14th Amendment. In fact, the California attorney general has conceded the unconstitutionality of Proposition 8, and the city of San Francisco has joined our case to defend the rights of gays and lesbians to be married. We do not tell persons who have a legitimate claim to wait until the time is "right" and the populace is "ready" to recognize their equality and equal dignity under the law.

Citizens who have been denied equality are invariably told to "wait their turn" and to "be patient." Yet veterans of past civil-rights battles found that it was the act of insisting on equal rights that ultimately sped acceptance of those rights. As to whether the courts are "ready" for this case, just a few years ago, in Romer v. Evans, the United States Supreme Court struck down a popularly adopted Colorado constitutional amendment that withdrew the rights of gays and lesbians in that state to the protection of anti-discrimination laws. And seven years ago, in Lawrence v. Texas, the Supreme Court struck down, as lacking any rational basis, Texas laws prohibiting private, intimate sexual practices between persons of the same sex, overruling a contrary decision just 20 years earlier.

These decisions have generated controversy, of course, but they are decisions of the nation's highest court on which our clients are entitled to rely. If all citizens have a constitutional right to marry, if state laws that withdraw legal protections of gays and lesbians as a class are unconstitutional, and if private, intimate sexual conduct between persons of the same sex is protected by the Constitution, there is very little left on which opponents of same-sex marriage can rely. As Justice Antonin Scalia, who dissented in the Lawrence case, pointed out, "[W]hat [remaining] justification could there possibly be for denying the benefits of marriage to homosexual couples exercising '[t]he liberty protected by the Constitution'?" He is right, of course. One might agree or not with these decisions, but even Justice Scalia has acknowledged that they lead in only one direction.

California's Proposition 8 is particularly vulnerable to constitutional challenge, because that state has now enacted a crazy-quilt of marriage regulation that makes no sense to anyone. California recognizes marriage between men and women, including persons on death row, child abusers, and wife beaters. At the same time, California prohibits marriage by loving, caring, stable partners of the same sex, but tries to make up for it by giving them the alternative of "domestic partnerships" with virtually all of the rights of married persons except the official, state-approved status of marriage. Finally, California recognizes 18,000 same-sex marriages that took place in the months between the state Supreme Court's ruling that upheld gay-marriage rights and the decision of California's citizens to withdraw those rights by enacting Proposition 8.

So there are now three classes of Californians: heterosexual couples who can get married, divorced, and remarried, if they wish; same-sex couples who cannot get married but can live together in domestic partnerships; and same-sex couples who are now married but who, if they divorce, cannot remarry. This is an irrational system, it is discriminatory, and it cannot stand.

Americans who believe in the words of the Declaration of Independence, in Lincoln's Gettysburg Address, in the 14th Amendment, and in the Constitution's guarantees of equal protection and equal dignity before the law cannot sit by while this wrong continues. This is not a conservative or liberal issue; it is an American one, and it is time that we, as Americans, embraced it.

;

Excellent, excellent article - thanks for posting - emanon

[ In Reply To ..]
I wish more people had the clarity and common sense that Mr. Olson has

Great article! This is soooo great to see! - Colleen

[ In Reply To ..]
The embracing of equality for yet another part of our population. Nice post.

Just as.... - KLE

[ In Reply To ..]
women are not equal to men in the sense they are totally differnt creatures who bring totally different aspects to a marriage....the union of same-sex people is not equal to marriage of a man and a woman. Never will be.

Needless to say, I absolutely do not agree and never will. - Colleen

[ In Reply To ..]
IMO, people are people. What they do in their bedroom in no ones business. They are capable of having loving, fulfilling relationships and showed be treated the same as any man-woman relationship. To deny them equal rights because some have a personal problem what happens in their bedroom is to me a form of predjudice. And, I also disagree that women are not equal to men. The differences do not make us less than equal, it just makes us different. We may bring some different things to a relationship/marriage but we also bring many of the same things.
Honestly, it seems that many are just uncomfortable with differences in people, either because of color, relgion, race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, or lifestyle. To me, life is much richer because of our differences, and there is much to be learned from differences. Acceptance of others is not such a difficult thing.
Anyway, sorry about the soapbox, but IMO, people are people who should be given the same rights, (short of someone in jail for murder, for example). Always should be. There is no justification for predjudice, neither ignorance, the bible, or family, or just being closed minded. Never will be.
Disagree.... - KLE
[ In Reply To ..]
These people are not doing these things in their bedroom. They are taking this sick behavior to the streets. It is sick and it will always be. A man and a man do not belong together sexually and neither does a woman and a woman. This is not something we want our children and future generations to think of as normal because it isn't. Keep love out of it. This has nothing to do with love. You can love someone without "marrying" them and having sexual relations with them. These "differences" that you speak of are a perversion and even God is uncomfortable with the concept. There is absolutely nothing wrong with prejudice against a perverted behavior. I am prejudiced because it is a sexual and mental dysfunction that is being promoted as normal. IT IS NOT and never will be, no matter your sexual deviancy or how many sexual deviants are in your family that you feel sorry for. ;-)
Believing in fairness does not make me a sexual - deviant, and it has nothing
[ In Reply To ..]
to do with my family and I will ask you politely to keep to the topic and not attack me by making completely baseless claims of my so-called "sexual deviancy" or my, and I will do the same for you.

That being said, I am glad that you are comfortable proclaiming that you are predjudiced, although it is certainly not a compliment for most people. These differences are just that, differences, and I can not help but feel that "God" would be more comfortable with any form of love than blind predjudice. And love has a lot to do with it, love and civil rights. IMO, just because someone does not understand it does not make it bad, abnormal, or in your words "a perversion."
I believe the topic... - KLE
[ In Reply To ..]
was perversion. Any time the discussion turns to "same-sex marriage" you're talking perverted. Must have hit close to home. Usually those who defend this behavior so fiercely are either guilty of it or have a family member to defend. ;-) I am proud to be prejudiced against sin and perversion. Someone who claims to "love" children also is "different." Differences are not always good. What's not to understand??? 2 men committing sodomy or 2 women who have a problem with men... seems pretty dysfunctional to me. I understand it perfectly. That's why I understand how abnormal it is. ;-)
So many false claims, such little time. - sm
[ In Reply To ..]
"Usually those who defend this behavior so fiercely are either guilty of it or have a family member to defend." Care to cite a sourse on that one? Truth be told, dear, most of us who support same-sex marriage for political reasons that have to do with such basic American concepts as equality and human rights. Ever heard of them? The Bible refers to the self-righteousness in terms of filthy, hateful to God, vain, hypocritical, ineffectal for salvation, unprofitable, boastful, seeking to justify themselves, rejecting the righteousness of God, dispicable, abominable before God, engaged in folly, renounced by the saints, denounced, etc. Sounds pretty dysfunctional to me.
Dysfunctional - KLE
[ In Reply To ..]
He also calls homsexuality an abomination...you left that part out ;-)
What about all those other adjectives? - sm
[ In Reply To ..]
So are you acknowledging that God holds you, the self-righteous, with the same regard that you believe He holds homosexuality? Why are you overlooking the 15 adjectives used in your own Book to describe your behavior?

I left that part out because my interpretation of those passages is not the same as yours and I believe in the separation of church and state. I am not the one here who is trying to encode my personal religious principles into law and impose them on the rest of the nation. What I am suggesting is that the more appropriate context to look to to resolve the same-sex marrige issue would be the Constitution of the United States, in which case you would have no leg to stand on.
Nice post, sm. I decided not to bite this one - Colleen
[ In Reply To ..]
but you said it better than I could anyway.
Thanks. Can't say that I blame you. The post bites back. - LOL. nm
[ In Reply To ..]
nm
Well, I mainly just did not want to feed the - Colleen
[ In Reply To ..]
obvious attempts to bait us. Life is too short, and attitudes such as this are just not worth it.

Women are not equal to men? - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
I am going to go out on a limb here on your behalf and assume that you misspoke. Maybe you meant to say that women are different from men, instead of not equal to men? With that line of reasoning, would it also be safe to say that the different aspects they bring to a marriage are not strictly confined to their biology and physiology? Are you referring to the emotional and spiritual aspects? Could you please clarify?
I don't need to clarify.. - KLE
[ In Reply To ..]
I think anyone with even a tiny bit of common sense and decency knows exactly what I meant. ;-)
Okay. That tells me what I need to know. - sm
[ In Reply To ..]
You have no interest whatsoever in civil conversation, debating opposing arguments, finding common ground, sharing legitimate views or educating yourself. Guess that's what I get for tring to give you the benefit of the doubt.
Yep, chalk this up as one of the posters to - Colleen
[ In Reply To ..]
ignore.
That's what we, as a society, are trying to do... - KLE
[ In Reply To ..]
ignore it but it's hard to ignore the pink elephant in the living room. ;-)
I agree, Colleen, after reading his/her posts. - Nikki
[ In Reply To ..]
I "bit" once after he/she judged me as being "very judgemental" for agreeing with you, but I can see the futility in responding to this poster again.
Educating myself about sin... - KLE
[ In Reply To ..]
That's why we have the Bible. ;-)
While your are at it, you might want to - sm
[ In Reply To ..]
check out the "so many false claims, such little time" post above for a healthy dose of Bible wisdom.
Maybe KLE..... - if you had said
[ In Reply To ..]
something more to the effect of women are different than men in that they bring an entirely different perspective to the marriage and a man brings an entirely different perspective,moreso than in same sex relationships, therby creating a more well-rounded relationship.

You have to spell it out s-l-o-w-l-y to some folks, but I get what you're saying, KLE....

Flame away folks!!
The religious factions are the ones making this issue sm - emanon
[ In Reply To ..]
about sex. Personally for me, my attraction to someone has little to do with sexual attraction, as I have wound up in plenty of relationships where there was no initial physical attraction, but becoming attracted to someone based purely on personality, intelligence, compassion, etc., whatever each individual finds in another person that makes their relationship "well-rounded". Do you honestly believe that only heterosexuals are capable of having a "well-rounded" relationship? That is definitely the most ludicrous thing I have read on this board today!! KLE wants to accuse someone with an opposing opinion of being a "sexual deviant". It sounds to me that KLE "dost protest too much", and maybe KLE might be harboring some of those homophobic feelings based on his/her own denied repressions . . . . .
Wow. Seems reasonable . Hadn't though of it that way. - Thanks, emanon. nm
[ In Reply To ..]
nm
Ahhhh.... homophobic...just like God... - KLE
[ In Reply To ..]
someone I can really look up to. ;-)
So now you are looking up to yourself? - sm
[ In Reply To ..]
You do realize she was referring to you, right? My prayer for you would be that you live to see the day when same-sex marriage becomes reality. And it will, sooner or later.
It won't be in the eyes of God...that's all that really - matters...... nm
[ In Reply To ..]
nm
What I learned when I was 4 years old is - sm
[ In Reply To ..]
we are all his children and precious in his eyes. Please do not pretend to know Him for all the rest of us.
I believe you need to reread the post..... - nm
[ In Reply To ..]
nm
Why? - nm
[ In Reply To ..]
nm
Sexual attraction............... - sm
[ In Reply To ..]
THere are many heterosexuals who are together but not because they were necessarily sexually attracted to one another; they were looking for personality, intelligence, compassion, etc.

I certainly don't think KLE might be harboring homophobic feelings just because she sees homosexuality as being wrong. It sounds as if morally she sees it as wrong. I wish more people showed more morals without cowering in the corner because they are afraid they might be called names.

Of course, I can just look at it like this. If God had intended 2 men or 2 women to have the type of relationship you condon, he would have made the parts fit.....it really is just that plain and simple. Heterosexuals just don't want to see it for what it is....common sense.

I have a long-time friend who is homosexual; I grew up with him since I was 5 years old. I don't condone his lifestyle, but he is my friend and I certainly would not turn my back on him.

HOG DOOKIE....nm - KLE

[ In Reply To ..]
`

Didja' ever think that maybe homosexuality . . . . - LOL

[ In Reply To ..]
is God's plan for population control?

Could be... - KLE

[ In Reply To ..]
No babies are conceived and this behavior brings about disease and death. Works in tandem I guess.
Disease and death do not discriminate - TXMT
[ In Reply To ..]
STDs and AIDs are equal opportunity killers. The majority of females living with and dying from AIDS in the US became infected through heterosexual contacts, and just as often as not, within the sanctity and bonds of holy matrimony. In fact, in most regions of the world, heterosexual activity accounts for the bulk of AIDS-related disease and death for both genders.
Any sexual promiscuity... - KLE
[ In Reply To ..]
can end up costing you your life. I have no qualms condemning any such behavior, regardless of the participants. It doesn't make homosexual acts any less dysfunctional and dangerous.
Heterosexual women... - KLE
[ In Reply To ..]
who acquire AIDS from sex with a "heterosexual" man had best be digging a little deeper into his "background." You never know what kind of perverse activity goes on with men who claim to be heterosexual. They're just labels and you can change them on a whim. It's the behavior of ALL people regardless of what you choose to call yourself that may get yourself a diagnosis of AIDS. Choose your mates wisely. Just because a man has sex with a female doesn't mean he hasn't been with another man. I think they refer to those men as "bisexual." Welcome to the world of AIDS ladies and hence the claim that "heterosexuals get AIDS too." Let's clarify...men who call themselves heterosexuals to attract a female may actually also be leaning in the other direction and can give women who call themselves heterosexuals AIDS. Not much of a mystery there... LOL
The only mystery here is - sm
[ In Reply To ..]
is how someone 130 years behind the times ended up in 2010. You are an anachronism who is much better suited to the Victorian Age and are so ill-informed on this subject that it makes no sense to even try to point you toward the facts. This is the kind of fringe denial that will make it absolutely impossible for your party(s) to gain any political traction in the real world.
Hope you don't have children to place your ill-informed - AIDs info on.......
[ In Reply To ..]
nm
Are you addressing sm or KLE? - Just curious. nm
[ In Reply To ..]
nm
thank you for saying that... - cj
[ In Reply To ..]
I was thinking the same thing -- to a point. I don't think it has anything to do with party affiliation. It is just willful ignorance. But the total disregard for the facts in the above posts is mind boggling.
AIDs.........please get your story straight - sm
[ In Reply To ..]
The majority of females infected in the US became infected because they slept with men who were NOT heterosexuals, but rather homosexuals. Unfortunately, most of these women do not know this until it is too late. No, a HETEROSEXUAL relationship does not account for the bulk of AIDS for both genders but rather heterosexual behavior between men. The heterosexual woman was the one paying for the relationship with what she 'thought' was a heterosexual guy. And, yes, both sexes have paid with their lives due to homosexual behavior but it is well known it was spread by homosexual men.

AIDS did not develop/spread because of heterosexuality but because of homosexual behavior.
My daughter caught HIV from a man - who was not homosexual
[ In Reply To ..]
Talk about informing one's self! This guy had spent time in prison, unknown to me or my daughter until too late. After the fact found out he had been a rape victim in prison. Have not seen this talked about, not homosexual and still had the virus? Unbelievable, not really.
I am sorry to hear that - MTAN
[ In Reply To ..]
but unfortunately, he got it due to homosexual behavior, which runs rampant in prisons and jails.
You evidently have no idea what you are talking about. - sm
[ In Reply To ..]
Clueless as to just how ignorant those statements are.
Beg to differ, since I looked it up before I posted. - nm
[ In Reply To ..]
nm

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Delaware Now Allows Same-sex MarriageMay 07, 2013
They are the 11th state to allow same-sex marriage. Slowly, but surely! Minnesota is reportedly right behind them! ...

14 Down, 36 To Go!!! (For Those Who Are Anti-gay Marriage,Oct 21, 2013
I'm still getting excited with each new state that joins in.  I really didn't expect to see this kind of momentum to this degree during my lifetime.  It's the Civil Rights Movement of our day, and I couldn't be happier to watch its progress unfold.  Same-sex marriages start in New Jersey, 14th state to recognize such unions By Ed Payne, CNN updated 11:13 AM EDT, Mon October 21, 2013 STORY HIGHLIGHTS Newark mayor conducts ...

Anybody Else Have A Marriage That's About Thisclose To Going Under?Mar 19, 2014
One big situation aggravated by a few small others, and I'm afraid we're going to be done for pretty soon if we cant straighten this out. I dont really have anyone to talk to,  dont want to go to a counselor.  I know very well what's wrong, he's so dam stubborn,  other things are bothering him right now but he wont admit it and that adds to the whole mess.  I do have a very nice Catholic nun who I've gotten to know, does social/charity work, but I r ...

Marriage Opinions PleaseOct 23, 2014
May I please vent and get a few opinions on this?  My husband works with a lady who developed a crush on him.  I would not call my husband "flirty" but he is one of those people who are extremely nice all of the time and I could see myself even getting the wrong idea and maybe thinking he was flirting with me if I didn't know him.  So, the lady he works with apparently developed a crush (we have been married 18 years) and she knows a mutual friend of mine and spoke about my h ...

Gay Marriage Legal Jun 26, 2015
it's been a good week😊 ...

Marriage Advice/opinionJan 17, 2012
I would appreciate any opinions/advice on this.  My husband is constantly complaining about food.  I am not a very good cook.  It is not something I enjoy, and I am just not very creative about it.  I just offered four different  options for dinner tonight, and he wanted none of them.  I don't have anything else I can make, so this just led to a big fight as usual.  Frankly, if someone were cooking for me all the time, I would eat whatever they put in ...

Judge Has Question About Gay MarriageOct 16, 2009
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Gay Marriage Helps EconomyMar 03, 2010
It's now legal in DC, woot! Check out the last paragraph for the immediate economic impact. NJ ...

Marriage/Name Change QuestionApr 27, 2010
I got married in October and am just now getting around to doing all the legalities for the formal name change (just a bit late, lol!). Now that I have the certificate in my hot little hands, is the best place to start everything at the DMV with my driver's license, then to the bank, the Social Security office, etc?  Is there any particular order I need to do this in?  I know I need to FAX the certificate to my employer so they can legally change the name on payroll, email, etc., ...

Golden Girls On Gay MarriageJun 04, 2010
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xxpd3Ye0zA ...

Obama Supports Same-sex Marriage. NmMay 09, 2012
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Marriage Is Between A Man And A Woman - By BHO - LinkAug 23, 2012
Another by flip flopper (liar) in chief ...

Hillary Clinton On Gay MarriageMar 18, 2013
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More On New Zealand Legalizing Gay Marriage...Apr 18, 2013
from dailyoftheday.com: After New Zealand passed their marriage equality bill, the entire crowd in the parliament broke out into a traditional [Maori] love song titled “Pokarekare Ana,” serenading the the bill’s sponsor, MP Louisa Wall. It was a heartwarming sight and one well-deserved for Wall, who can now choose to marry her partner. Also of note is this video of Pakuranga MP Maurice Williamson making some hilarious and pointed comments about the sti ...

Long Lasting MarriageJul 03, 2013
Question......how do you keep the "sparks" alive in your marriage?  I have been married for 20 years and I do love my husband with every bit of me, BUT the romance aspect is just gone.  He tries to do romantic things for me, but I guess it's more that the "attraction" is gone in a way, it is so confusing.  Like, my husband and I are still intimate, but we don't kiss or flirt or anything like that.  It almost just feels like he is a family member or something.   ...

IRS And Treasury Recognize Same-sex Marriage.Aug 30, 2013
Good news day.  I'm so happy for them and for our country.     http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/08/29/the-irs-and-medicare-will-now-recognize-same-sex-marriages-all-of-them/ ...

Bush Daughter Backs Gay MarriageFeb 02, 2011
Take this Tony Perkins and chew on it for a while! Our younger generation does not believe the way your old generation believes and there is nothing you can do to stop it! Barbara Bush is coming out in support of gay marriage. The 29-year-old daughter of President George W. Bush announces in a web video posted late Monday that she supports same-sex marriage. “I’m Barbara Bush and I’m a New Yorker for marriage equality,” she says. “New York is about fairne ...

Asked For A Copy Of My Marriage Certificate?Mar 23, 2012
I have been married for 30+ years. I just received a form from the health iinsurance carrier requesting a copy of my marriage certificate to prove I can be covered under the family policy. Huh? This is the first time in 30 years I have been asked for it. The requesting form cites a new law passed in my state passed last summer. The form says they have hired a special auditing form to do this audit. Oh yes, now it makes sense. Republican state legislature is passing more bills to take a ...

Republicans Sign Brief In Support Of Gay MarriageFeb 26, 2013
 [NOTE that 27% of voters identify themselves as Republican these days. 42% identify as Republicans or independents who lean Republican; 47% identify as Democrats or independents leaning Democrat.] February 25, 2013 WASHINGTON — Dozens of prominent Republicans — including top advisers to former President George W. Bush, four former governors and two members of Congress — have signed a legal brief arguing that gay people have a constitutional right to ...

Republican Sen. Portman Now Supports Same-sex MarriageMar 18, 2013
After recently learning that his son is gay. Senator Portman co-sponsored the 1996 federal ban on same-sex marriage. "Knowing that my son is gay prompted me to consider the issue from another perspective: that of a dad who wants all three of his kids to lead happy, meaningful lives with the people they love ... and my belief that we are all children of God." ...

Pew Study: Growing Support Of Same-sex MarriageMar 21, 2013
This study was released yesterday and oh yes, there are graphs.   Of the reasons why people have changed their minds, they were as follows: 32% said they knew someone who was homosexual. 25% said they got older and more open-minded/grew up/had more time to think about it. 18% said it's inevitable/the world is changing. 18% said everyone is free to choose love & happiness/government should stay out of it. 8% said because they believe in equal rights. 5% said because of moral ...

If Gay Marriage Is Legalized And Christian ChurchesApr 29, 2015
if they fail to perform marriages, does this include Muslim mosques too or just the Christians? ...