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Zimmerman trial.

Posted: Jun 30, 2013

Okay, he had no right that I know of to shoot this man, but I'm so sick of them trying to make Trayvon out to be a good kid when he was in a gang, sold drugs, fighting was his favorite pasttime and he had been expelled from school many times. Why are they not allowing his past into court?

;

Of course, you have a right to your opinion... - overthehills

[ In Reply To ..]
...but this subject is one better addressed in a forum for that purpose. However, that being said, there is so much misinformation (on both sides) flying around - even on sites which are usually not so volatile. While I understand your frustration with the legal process, those of use who do not have an LLD cannot sufficiently address or answer your question, particularly since it is presented with several inaccurate suppositions. I would suggest you do some further investigation into this case before making further statements about one side or the other - though there is so much nonsense being exchanged back and forth, it will be difficult to do much objective research. I am also pretty sure that when this is over neither side will be completely happy with the process or the results.

He's not the one on trial. He's the victim. - NM

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x

Maybe because the dead kid is not on trial, - the shooter is.

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The night he died he was walking home from the store with a drink and some candy, talking on the phone to a friend and excited about seeing the rest of the game, not hanging with the "gang," or selling drugs. BTW, I seriously doubt fighting for his life and losing the battle to an armed adult male trained in kickboxing was his idea of a good time.

Speaking of favorite passtimes, cop wannabe GZ (a term the defense asked the judge to restrict the prosecution from using, along with the word "vigilante"), on the other hand, was a member of Kokopelli's Gym, which bills itself as "the most complete fight gym in the world!" According to the physician assistant's testimony, he goes there at least 3 times weekly to practice mixed martial arts.

Also, there is lots of other interesting stuff about GZ I doubt the defense is too keen on airing in court. Like his 2005 fight with law enforcement outside a bar near the University of Central Florida that resulted in pretrial diversion program, those dueling domestic violence injunctions or the civil settlement over credit card debts. The one that sticks out in my mind the most was how he and his wife hid his second passport (who keeps a "spare" valid passport?) after surrendering the first one to the judge during the bond hearing, their lying under oath about the sizable sums of money they had access to and how recorded jailhouse phone calls between them exposed their premeditated (as opposed to innocent or accidental) plans to hide the money.

Since HE is the one on trial, don't you think they should allow these details of HIS past to be heard in court?

Both made bad decisions! - Trampled underfoot

[ In Reply To ..]
Both involved parties involved made poor decisions; if I was the one creeped out by someone following me, I would have gotten to my destination ASAP, not turned around to confront them.

But what I find rather immaterial is them going on about him shooting a "17-year-old kid". I sincerely doubt that Zimmerman knew his age; he was a full-grown man as far as anyone could see and I doubt he ever said, "Don't shoot me! I'm only 17!"

and GZ never said - anything to the

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17-year old about him being a Neighborhood Watch member, either. I honestly do not believe that Trayvon turned around and confronted GZ either, anymore than GZ said he got out of his car to "look for an address." He would have been better served to have stayed in his car and drove around looking for an address, if that was truly the case. He hunted that poor kid down like an animal and I believe that GZ "confronted" the 17-year old kid. That "kid" was only defending himself, which he had every right to do. IF he got the better hand over GZ at one point, good for him! but it was that move that cost him his life. I do not think Trayvon even had the "opportunity" to say "don't shoot me! I am only 17." No remorse at all now from GZ about what he did, and no remorse then. He does not care what he did. He still believes he was in the right to take a life.

Explain then... - Trampled underfoot

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Why were Treyvon's only wounds (other than the gunshot) abrasions on his knuckles? And just how did GZ sustain the head wounds on both the front and back of his head? And I don't believe for a minute that Treyvon DIDN'T turn back to confront GZ.

I'm not saying GZ wasn't an idiot to put himself in that position, but face it, had he not been armed, the headline would have read "Neighborhood Watch Volunteer Found Beaten". Probably to death.

Correction. A single abrasion 1/4 x 1/8th inches - according to the autopsy

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that could have just as easily been sustained while being pinned down and when, according to Zimmerman, he "grabbed his hands and pushed them away from his body."

I'd like to hear an explanation as to why the autopsy/DNA findings specifically state Trayvon Martin is not the "cause" of Zimmerman's injuries, since they found ZERO DNA from George Zimmerman under Trayvon's fingernails, on his right or left hand, right or left hoodie cuff or sleeves, or his right or left shirt cuffs or sleeves.

Furthermore, how could Trayvon be punching Zimmerman in the face while, according to Zimmerman, he was straddling his victim FACE DOWN and pushing his hands away from his body? The statement also indicated that "somebody came and had a flashlight and I thought was a cop and I said - oh and I still had my gun in my hand as I was holding his hands apart and I said are you a cop he said "no" but I'll call them. I said, "I don't need you to do that I need you to help me restrain this guy."

DNA backs that up, since the hoodie and pants had grass stains, dirt and mud on the front. Police photos failed to show any defensive wounds, dirt or blood on Zimmerman's knuckles, palms, wrists, thumbs or fingers or fingernails. As far as his other wounds are concerned, one would suppose those were sustained when Trayvon Martin stood HIS ground armed with Skittles and a can of ice tea against a man who admits he had tapped his right front pants pocket and his right back pocket (which was just inches away from his firearm), letting the victim know what he had in store for him. He also claimed he "went to go for my phone" but later admitted his phone was not even in his pants...and that phone call he "didn't need" the concerned citizen with the flashlight to make never happened either until the frightened neighbors made their reports.

IMO, those facts put your "probably to death" theory to rest. In fact, the opposite is more like it. Had Zimmerman not had that gun, 2nd degree murder charges would not be before the court and Trayvon Martin might still be with us. Beside that, what MIGHT have happened is not the issue here. It's what DID happen that counts.

I hope you are watching the trial because some of your info is incorrect - GZ had a broken nose and stitches in the back of t

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He wasn't on top of TM, he was UNDER TM. TM was the one straddling GZ.

I am not making judgement yet but am watching the trial. It's very interesting. So far, witnesses for the prosecution are not helping their case, especially TM's friend that he was talking to on the phone before the incident.

Even the police statement videos are helping GZ's case because now he really doesn't have to testify. It's on video.

nooooo...there was no broken nose - sm

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and by the way: a defendant NEVER has to testify in the United States of America.

I am listening. - Are you?

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GZ declined x-ray and ENT followup, so PA testified she could not state that definitively. According to photos shown in court, GZ cleaned up rather well, and septal swelling had subsided by the next day. No proof, no dice on that broken nose claim.

Did you miss the part about Glascow score of 15, how vascular the scalp is and how no stitches were needed since these so-called "life-threatening" wounds were superficial? What was applied to the head injuries was a boo-boo bandaid.

GZ CLAIMS he was under Trayvon, but there are no eyewitnesses to back that up. Also, if he were UNDER him, how did he wrestle Trayvon into a face-up prone position to be able, as he claims, to spread his arms/hands apart and just how DID Trayvon end up FACE down with his arms crossed under his body?

I disagree with you about Rachel Jeantel's testimony. She came across to me as genuine and rock-solid consistent in her accounts of the pertinent core facts of the case.

I have a feeling those police statement videos are going to come back to bite GZ before the prosecution is done presenting their case. They haven't even begun to contrast his statements with all the other evidence, especially DNA. In fact, one blaring inconsistency revealed in those written statements and the video is the certainty he expressed about the NONEXISTENT bushes during the interrogation and in his written statement versus his "walk-through" interview with the investigator when he stated he could not see where Trayvon came from.

That's hilarious..."beaten to death" - wheres_my_job

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ZIMMERMAN started it - how do we know Treyvon didn't think he was some kind of serial killer? I mean seriously, what if someone were following YOU, what would you make of it? ZIMMERMAN behaved in a threatening manner.

Pfftt...had Z not been armed, he mightn't have acted - so stupid in the 1st place.

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Maybe he would have actually listened to what he was being told to do.

I agree with you - wheres_my_job

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Zimmerman ONLY had to call the police, which I believe he did, and that was IT!!! The police told him that they would handle it, I believe, if I remember correctly. But no, Zimmerman wanted to be a "hero" or whatever in his mind, and he had a GUN - seriously, he had to be aware that him shooting and killing another human being was now a possibility. If you KNOW that, then back off!!!!!!!! If someone is walking AWAY from you, THEY ARE NO THREAT!!!!!!!!

Not really. A barely 17 high school junior is not a full-grown man and - GZ knew that

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as he clearly stated when asked about Trayvon's age. "Late teens" was the reply, so my question would be why should Trayvon Martin be portrayed as anything other than what he was, a 17-year-old kid? Even GZ described him as a teen. If it's so immaterial, what is it about this description that seems to unnerve Zimmerman supporters?

Also, how come asking the simply question, "Why are you following me?" is confrontational, but the act of singling out a black kid walking through the neighborhood as suspicious, reporting him to the police, following him in a truck and on foot, and shooting him dead not confrontational? I really don't get that.

While on the subject of deceptive and inaccurate portrayals, do you also think Trayvon Martin was armed with "the sidewalk?" Is the sidewalk a weapon more deadly than a loaded gun? Really?

He was young, but fully grown - Trampled underfoot

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Not the 12-year-old the media was fond of picturing. If anyone finds the description of a "17-year-old" unnerving, it's because the media was very careful to make sure the image it conjured was still that 12-year-old in the picture.

And whether the sidewalk is a deadly weapon...let me know after you have your head pounded into one.

Even if you're correct about the confrontation beginning with GZ, apparently TM was the one who made it physical. They both made very poor decisions that fateful night.

What are you talking about? Just Google - Trayvon Martin "images"

[ In Reply To ..]
and start sifting through the photoshop avalanche of images those few pictures of the red Hollister T-shirt and football uniform are buried amongst to find the ones the media is most "fond" of...as long as we are talking about "conjured" images.

What we have are Zimmerman's claims of how he received those abrasions, described as "minor," that he himself decided did not need hospital attention minutes after he allegedly "feared for his life." We also have testimony from the PA that clearly described superficial cuts that required no sutures and physical findings absent of any significant swelling the very next day when GZ showed up to get a release to return to work.

Then we have the victim's corpse whose cause of death was a gunshot wound at intermediate range, with a bullet path at the left 5th intercostal space, and perforations of the pericardial sac, right ventricle of the heart, and right lung with two collapsed lungs, bilateral pleural hemorrhages and no exit wound. Shot through the heart with enough power to thrust the bullet from the left-side heart chambers into the right side of the body. Dead kid versus live male, released from custody and trying to return to work the next day. Again, which "weapon" was the deadly one?

What are you referring to when saying "apparently" Trayvon was the one who "made it physical?" The aggression started long before fists started to fly. Hint: It wasn't the kid with the Skittles who stalked a poor defenseless Neighborhood Watch guy.

Verbal aggression versus physical aggression - Trampled underfoot

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Apparently you don't understand the difference between the two. GZ's injuries did not occur AFTER the gunshot, so I'm assuming TM was the one doing the pounding.

I guess GZ should have waited til he lost consciousness before realizing his life was in danger.

Apparently you don't understand the difference - between

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prejudicial suppositions versus evidence and cold hard facts. To my knowledge, nothing has been definitively established about who threw that first punch, but what is clear is that Trayvon Martin had every right to ask whye he was being followed and to fight for his, especially after Zimmerman admittedly indicated he was armed. It is also highly unlikely we'd even be talking about murder had the perp not been armed.

Since GZ's inconsistent sidewalk claims are not backed up with any eyewitness, DNA, photo or investigation evidence whatsoever, that alleged concrete interlude will be subject to much careful scrutiny by the prosecution. What is also clear is that neither the police, GM or the PA have described anything remotely resembling life-threatening injuries. We do know that after realizing he was being stalked, Trayvon continued to talk on the phone and walk home, quickened his pace and took a shortcut...behavior not terribly suggestive of somebody who is planning a vicious attack. Zimmerman, on the other hand, decided to ignore specific instructions not to follow, did not call back clarifying the address, got out of his truck and continued his mission on foot while packing a weapon.

I think the jury will be placing heavy weight on that time-honored adage, that actions speak louder than words.

That's exactly right - wheres_my_job

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"Zimmerman, on the other hand, decided to ignore specific instructions not to follow, did not call back clarifying the address, got out of his truck and continued his mission on foot while packing a weapon."

A superficial abrasion does not = a "pounding" - for heaven's sake. NM

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That is just INSANE. You've got to be kidding me.

Only ONE person made a "poor decision" - wheres_my_job

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You're trying to make out like they are BOTH equally responsible for what happened. Only ONE person is responsible - the one who behaved in the crazy psycho following someone WHO ISN'T BOTHERING ANYONE (besides WWB - Walking While Black) - ONLY that person is responsible for how events unfolded. Remember, Zimmerman was also ARMED - perhaps that fact is the reason he felt comfortable FOLLOWING a teenager around - because he knew he had lethal force available to him? How would you feel if someone started following you around - would you be afraid? How would you react? Zimmerman WANTED A CONFRONTATION, SO HE COULD HAVE A REASON TO SHOOT, AND BE A "HERO." Victim has NO culpability, NONE, for those decisions Zimmerman made.

Confronting someone wasn't a "bad decision" - wheres_my_job

[ In Reply To ..]
Sometimes if you confront someone, they back off. Sometimes they don't. That's not a bad decision - if he HADN'T confronted Zimmerman, and still gotten shot (for instance, because he started running away, or "acting guilty" in Zimmerman's mind) - then people would be saying, he should have acknowledged Zimmerman's presence in some way, it was a "bad decision" that he didn't. He was a TEENAGER.

My - husband

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and I were just discussing this. This stuff is not his past, it is stuff he was doing presently. Also they need to stop showing the little 12-year-old kid and show the current picture. Why don't they show Zimmerman when he was 12 instead of now?

Unfortunately this is one of the bad things about our court system. You can't bring in things that have nothing to do with the crime itself. Doesn't seem right in some cases where something that pertains to their character now is not permitted. I can understand if a person did something 20 or 30 years ago, but this is current stuff. Oh well, I guess that is just the way it is.

Photos of GZ's workouts at the most complete fight gym in the world - would be more interesting

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and would more accurately depict HIS recent activities.

Travon Martin - greyhoundmom

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The pictures that we see of Travon Martin makes him look like a little person.

He was actually 6 feet tall and weighed 160 pounds.

My friend's 13-year-old son is already 6'2" - and weighs 170

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which makes him bigger than Trayvon who was 5'11" and weighed 158 pounds when autopsied. Fact is, Trayvon turned 17 on February 5, 3 weeks before he was gunned down. That makes this kid, by every legal description, a MINOR. Another fact is that the guy who claims he was in fear of his life was not just armed and had access to the protection of a vehicle, but he was also trained in mixed martial arts/kickboxing, has a history of resisting arrest with violence and battery on a police officer and of domestic violence he tried to blame on the victim.

I'm a mom, too. Where I live, we expect kids like Trayvon to be protected by Neighborhood Watch, not gunned down.

Then why was Zimmerman following him? - wheres_my_job

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Let the police handle it. The police said they would handle it. Why wouldn't Zimmerman listen to the police, when he was following someone who could take care of themselves in a fight? Oh yeah - ZIMMERMAN WAS ARMED, and was prepared to use armed force.

Current stuff...as in right at the moment Zimmerman was following him? - wheres_my_job

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That's all that matters. What, it's open season now on people with "bad character?"

I would also like to bring up a fact - that has not been openly expressed

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enough. GZ had a concealed carry permit. however, it was stated that before all of this happened, the reason he left his home was to go to Target and get some lunch items for the next day. It has been brought out that he was heading to Target with a Cal-Tek 9, and THE SAFETY WAS OFF!!! Why on earth would anybody take that large caliber gun to Target with the safety off, unless he had intentions of using it?? If he did not take the safety off until he spotted Trayvon, then his intentions are perfectly clear. I just hope the jury sees things the way they should be!

Good Point - Holly

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Why did the boy not say to GZ that he was lost and could not find the condo where his father's girlfriend lived. I think he was lost right? That is why he was looking in people's windows. From what I understand, I am not sure if this accurate either, GZ turned his back to go to the car and the boy approached him.

you are so wrong on so many levels - it does not even deserve

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a response. Start watching the trial to get your own facts straight. Very little of what you just posted is even CLOSE to what actually happened. Making things up in your head!

looking in people's windows?? - sm

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what are you talking about? Do you not realize that this young man was no doubt frightened because he was being followed? This young man was shot, and you want to blame him for not saying a particular magical sentence that you think would have saved his life?? What incredible bias you are showing. It is a fact of American life that we are all free to walk without presuming we will be followed, harassed, or shot.

not making things up - Holly

[ In Reply To ..]
I am not making things up and yes I did watch the trial. Last year when the tragedy happened it was reported on the news and in the papers that the boy was on his way to his father's girlfriend's condo from the store. He did not live there. He was visiting from out of the area, sent there because he got suspended from school for pot. It was stated that maybe he was looking in windows trying to find the right condo because they all look the same and he got confused of where to go. That was not my imagination. Zimmerman also said he saw him looking in people's windows. I am not taking sides with either of them. They were both wrong in my eyes. Why do you take things so personal here? No one can say anything without you cranky MTs attacking. Will not return again to be attacked on this board from ignorance and prejudice. You are the biased one here.

no, hon - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
no one said Trayvon was looking in anyone's windows. No one. Not even Zimmerman.

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