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This Is What I See Coming For Wisconsin

Posted: Mar 17, 2011

I have copied and pasted something someone wrote that pretty much sums up Scott (slime) Walker's intentions.

Diane Ravitch has it in a nutshell. Of Scott Walker, she writes:

He expects that over time, most public workers will stop paying dues, especially now that they have to pay more for their healthcare and pension benefits. And thus will he cripple, perhaps permanently, a perennial political opponent.

If Gov. Walker succeeds, there will be no organized voice to oppose his “reform” plans. He can raise the income cap on vouchers, letting everyone leave the public schools if they choose. He can create hundreds of charter schools, opening the riches of that sector to any willing corporation. He can cut the education budget, increase class sizes (Arne Duncan and Bill Gates say that’s a creative idea), oust teachers whose students don’t get higher test scores.

Gov. Scott Walker may indeed be the face of corporate reform. Unimpeded, he can bring to fruition the worst of all their ideas. He joins the march of Republican governors (and a few mayors as well) who think that school reform begins with crushing the teachers’ unions, eliminating tenure, due process, and seniority, and firing 5 to 10 percent of teachers every year.

;

And I would like to add - mbmt

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and not just for Wisconsin.

Of course, this is TOTALLY false and blown WAY - up into a big fat lie ! nm

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Unions are not being busted up. They are not even being asked to give up collective bargaining. That only had to do with their contributing to their own healthcare/pensions like the average person in the PRIVATE sector. These other claims are laughable, just like the Dems who ran away from their responsibilities instead of face them. What a sad joke.

Collective bargaining - mbmt

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Where do you get your information from? Of course, most of us are aware that Governor Walker signed a bill stripping nearly all collective bargaining rights from public employees in Wisconsin (doesn't matter which side you are on). This did happen. Don't take my word for it, just look it up in the news.

By the way - mbmt

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I do know that police officers and firefighters are exempt.

Well, you dont know the REST of the story. They CAN - JN

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still have collective bargaining rights on salaries/wages, but not on benefits like they did before. Its fact and not hard to find.

Did you also read all the riders? - nm

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nm

Why don't you post a link so we can all read - the riders? Thanks! nm

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nm

JN - mbmt

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Did you really think that I did not know about the fact that most public employees can still bargain for wages but not beyond the rate of inflation in Wisconsin and that you needed to inform me of at least part of that? Laughable! There are other things involved in collective bargaining. Maybe you need to read up on that.

Also, maybe since you think you are so much more knowledgeable than I am about what is going on in Wisconsin,you can share your great knowledge and tell me what the real reason was for stripping most collective bargaining rights? Please do not tell me it's all about the money because I don't buy it.

If the intent was not to avoid a state budget - Indy

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shortfall, what do you think it was? To use your words, please do not tell me it was all about union busting because, with all due respect, I don't buy that either. The facts just don't seem to support that.

I am just asking; not trying to pick a fight.

Not the OP but, the intent was to bust the unions - I have no doubt about it because sm

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In my state Republicans have been trying to bust the unions for years, but the working people have not allowed it to happen. It has been their "Main Thing" over everything else, including the budget. It means money to their large contributors. That's the way the system works, unfortunately.

How could it be about busting unions? - Indy

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Just one union, some members were exempt, and they still retained some collective bargaining rights. If the intent was to bust the union, wouldn't they include all members and strip all their collective bargaining rights? That is why I don't think it was about busting unions at all...doesn't make sense based on what was done.

Thanks for your answer; I appreciate it!

I think the goal is to take it 1 step at a time across the nation - because people may not notice one step

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That's my view of it. It's so much easier to get these things done one step at a time, because people would definitely notice an all-or-nothing action, but no really so much of it's just partial. Again, that's just the way I see it. I may be totally right, partially right, or totally wrong about how it turns out, but I believe I'm correct about the plan which has been instituted across the nation.

The only unions governors could have any - effect on would be public

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worker unions. So they could not ever bust ALL unions. Government at any level can only control public workers (federal workers at the fed level). And since no Democrat politician will go there because unions own the Democrats...it cannot go across the nation.

Makes no sense.

Not just one union - mbmt

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There is not just one union for public employees in Wisconsin. For example, Wisconsin Education Association Council (WEAC) is the largest teachers' union in Wisconsin. There are other public employee unions (SEIU, Wisconsin Professional Police Association, Wisconsin State Firefighter Association, etc.). Some of the unions were exempt from Walker's bill, namely police and firefighter unions, but that was it from what I can tell.

You asked why the governor would want to bust unions. The way I see it is that union people generally see the Democratic Party as the party that looks out for the middle class and the poor and tend to vote for Democrats. If the unions are weakened, they will be hurting for funds and therefore will not be able to contribute to their party of choice (Democratic Party). If this is successful, then the Republican Party runs everything. Do I think all Republicans think this is a good thing? I absolutely do not, but I do think there are some, like Governor Walker, who think this is a great idea.

SEIU is a nationwide union. Governor Walker - could not bust it if he tried.

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I believe the only one affected was the teachers' union...as police and fire were exempt. One state union in Wisconsin is not going to significantly impact dues...especially since all those people are still going to be members of the union and still pay their dues (I am assuming) even though their collective bargaining rights have been shot down to some extent (I think they can't bargain higher than the inflation rate, that is what I read).

All this union busting talk is just talk. The only unions any governor can have any control over are state unions, not nationwide unions; no Democrat governor is going to go there because the unions own the Democratic party...or vice versa, depending on how you look at it. Even if all Republicans wanted to bust all unions...which I don't believe they do...it would be an impossible task.

You remember the SEIU, right...the purple shirts who kicked the crap out of people during the lsat prez election? Now THAT is union busting...only union doing the busting.

SEIU and public employees - mbmt

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This is what I was referring to:

http://seiuwi.org/

I think you know I was just trying to point out that there is not just "one" union for public employees in Wisconsin.

The only public employees that are exempt are police and firefighters (Walker thinks he might need them..wink,wink). It is not just teachers' unions that are affected. There are many, many other public employees in Wisconsin...public health workers, prison guards, people who work for public power plants, road construction crews, etc.

Okay...can you link me to the law he signed... - so I can read it and

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and see exactly who was involved and exactly what was done to the union's collective bargaining rights. I heard it was that they could not ask for a raise higher than the rate of inflation. Frankly I do not see anything horrible in that and I do not see why they would not just agree to that. What about the other millions of folks in Wisconsin? I read somewhere that the Associated Press as an unbiased third party went in and analyzed all the emails that had come into the state capitol regarding this issue and that the majority of them sided with the governor and they felt like he was acting on behalf of ALL taxpayers when he did that...

So...if you can link me to the actual law he signed, I would be most appreciative.

Thanks!

Link - mbmt

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http://legis.wisconsin.gov/insession/insessiondocs/docs/JR1SB-11.pdf

Page 2, paragraph 4.

Public employees had already agreed to pay more toward pensions and health benefits before the bill was signed, so what is the point of the bill other than to strip collective bargaining rights from most public employees?

As far as Walker's emails, it is my understanding that initially the emails were protesting his bill and then turned more in his favor. It is also my understanding that many of them were from out-of-state people (which doesn't really matter). I guess this depends on how you look at the situation. I personally am opposed to the bill, but I would not bother to write to a governor who basically thinks it's his way or no way and I am sure others feel the same way. I think it is more likely supporters would write to him, but that is just my opinion.

"Diane" is dreaming. She is full of pure garbage.nm - WHAT?

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nm

Diane hit the nail on the head. The Republicans - and their donors want

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exterminate the middle class.

why?often wonder that - icedT

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Why would the Republican party (and their donors?) want to exterminate the middle class? What would be the benefit? What have they done to further that goal?

Just as important, what has the Democrat leadership (including the pres) done to promote the middle class and capitalism in the past 2 years?

Of course, I can only speak for myself when I say that I am certainly not better off than I was 2 years ago. Does anyone know someone who is better off now than 2 years ago?

One point of view - mbmt

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No, I am definitely not better off than I was two years ago. I found a link that I think best explains what a lot of people think is going on in this country. Some may not agree, and that's okay.

http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/jeffrey-sachs-billionaires-final-deed-crus

I am - Doing Great

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I had my best year ever in 2010 and looks like 2011 is going to be even better. I have so much work available I could work 24/7 if I wanted. Husband's job also on the upswing. Overtime has been reinstated after 2 years. So he will also be having a great year.

You probably don't hear too much about people like us because we are too busy working!

Please DO tell us what YOUR remedy to - the state economic crisis

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was, then. If he did it so wrong, what would be your answer? Raise taxes on everyone perhaps? Or just let Wisconsin's state economy take the route of our US economy? Please, if you are going to point fingers present a viable other option...in other words, what would a Democrat do better?? Obviously the Democrat who preceded Walker was about as good at fiscal responsibility as Obama is...or the state would not be in such bad economic straits...? Maybe???

Well, we can see that it isn't working for the Texas Governor - Their budget plan failed

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They had to get money out of the "rainy day" fund in order to survive. What if a REAL rainy day comes along. They will have already spent their rainy day money.

This is what some conservatives have been holding up as the ideal solution for the federal government, Governor Perry.

So what really is the answer. I say that we start with anything that does not take food out of the mouths of babies. I would start with discretionary expenses such as the arts, which can be paid for privately by those who want to contribute to them. I'm not sure what else can be cut because I'm not sitting here looking at the budget, but even though I have energy stocks, I don't see any sense in giving them subsidies or tax money. There's a place to look.

My point is, I just wouldn't start with the poor, young, disabled, and/or hopeless who have no lobbyists to speak for them and no money to pay off politicians.

All this is is more hoohah trying to rabble-rouse - Independents and defecting

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democrats over to the Dems side prior to the the 2012 elections. The Dems think they can win using that union busting mantra. They really need to see how little of the country as a whole even belong to unions. And they need to understand we don't care about that...what we CARE about is CUT SPENDING and do something about the deficit!!! lol One of the major things griped about was not listening to the people. They STILL aren't listening, they are STILL telling us we don't know what we are talking about, and they are STILL pointing fingers...and have YET to even act like they are remotely considering the deficit. Union busting...lol.

I feel that if we were talking face to face, you would be yelling at us - from the harsh and emotional wording of your mess

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A sharing of information and discussion of ideas doesn't have to include rudeness.

There is nothing harsh about the wording. - as to your "feelings"...

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I "feel" that this post is nothing but a distraction and deflection post, intimating that "tea partiers" scream and yell and are rude. Most of them don't/don't/aren't...however, I am an Independent. Sick of both organized parties, the Dems in particular because they cannot seem to grasp simple bookkeeping.

Nice try, but no cigar (and no, that is not a Bill Clinton joke).

Sure there is... - no1joe

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Caps denotes yelling when you're writing and typing. It's not only harsh, but I'll go one step further than the previous poster and say that the tone of that post (as well as all of the other posts made by the same person judging by the argumentative and aggressive tone, excessive use of SCREAMING CAPS as a writing style, as well as convoluted and erratic content in every single one of them) is OBNOXIOUS! Yes... I just yelled. That same poster goes down the line and leaves posts to everyone they see as either Democrat, liberal, or leaning slightly to the left for no other reason except to be condescending and argumentative, satisfy the overwhelming urge they obviously have to have the last word... even if that last word makes absolutely no sense, and be rude toward people they do not like based on their political views. It's not debating... it's screaming.

Don't worry, I don't think anyone is judging all TPers or independents based on these posts. There are plenty of TPers on this board who engage in debate - in a pleasant tone - and this person is making no one look bad but themselves. They are especially obnoxious when they insinuate that a poster is a "liar" like the OP has had happen to them twice as far as I've seen.

Didn't mean to distract with my "feelings," but just wanted to get that off my chest. I will not be responding so as not to hijack the post.

That's okay....know you are not shy about - getting things off your chest.

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I use caps for emphasis...not the first to do it, not the last. You wield condescending tone like a club...and have very little patience with someone who does not agree with you...oh but I understand, typical left/liberal/socialist/whatever behavior...of course no one is as enlightened and informed as you are...*yawn.* Thanks for the lecture..make you feel all intellectually superior to verbally dress me down, does it? Nevermind, I know the answer.

As to calling someone a liar...have not done that. I have seen posts from the other side saying "stop spreading the lies," yada yada...how funny it is that your tsk,tsk posts don't follow THOSE posts with "don't insinuate that person is a liar."

I understand Joe...I am supposed to listen to what you SAY, but not watch what you DO (not yelling, emphasizing).

Just wanted to get that off my chest.

and by the way, Joe...the big fat liar post - above is not mine. lol. nm

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nm

Your message would be so much more effective without the sarcasm too - just my opinion

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I'm also going to work on my own habits and make sure I leave the sarcasm out. You can take a message, any message, and sarcasm just takes away from it.

I'm learning from reading posts and how ideas are presented. I really hadn't realized just how ineffective sarcasm is when trying to get points across. Humor works well, but sarcasm repels.

I think Joe's posts are just fine. Sometimes a little - sarcasm leads to

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a little humor which is sorely needed at times in this hostile environment.

In fact, Joe's posts are among the best on this board, IMHO.

No sarcasm. The tone of joe's post was...as - many of them are...

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condescending and/or lecturing. And many times a hint of sarcasm as well. If I can wade through the condescending/lecturing/attacking posts and get to whatever point there might be, perhaps you can wade through the perceived sarcasm as well.

Perceived sarcasm CAN repel...so can condescending talking-down lectures.

Thanks for your input! :)

Seriously, I need to work on it. - nm

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nm

There was no harsh/emotionl wording in her post or rudeness - You need to look up the definition

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of them before you accuse others of things they are not or have not done.

Charter Schools - A Big Problem

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The intent is to have taxpayers pay for the charter schools. The big problem is, they are limited in the number of students they can take. The money comes OUT OF the money usually allocated for public schools, where the poor children will be left to "make do" with fewer teachers and very few resources.

This is a case of the rich abusing the poor. I hope it doesn't happen.

charter schools - a1typist

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That is a crock. Poor children can also choose to go to charter schools and many do in the city where I live. It is about time that we make public employees step-up instead of just counting on a job for eternity whether they perform or not. I also think this should have been extended to all public sector employees, not just teachers. If you want to see something eye-opening, go to transparentnevada.com, a website that shows what every public employee in the state makes. It will blow your mind!! These are people who are fighting because they do not want to contribute anything to their retirements or their health insurance. Wish I had such a sweet deal. Terms in public office (even for public employees) should be limited. It should not be a gravy train for life!

The poor won't be able to compete for those seats against the rich - Schools select which students they prefer to take

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If you were a charter school and you had a choice between a child from a wealthy, prestigious family that would bring in more resources to the school over the years and a child from a poor family with nothing to offer, which one are you going to choose to fill that last seat available? I think the answer is clear.

The answer is not so clear. That is definitely an - assumption, and I know

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everyone wants to think everything is all about money, and it is not. The charter schools where I live are on a first come first serve basis. The reality is, is that a good portion of the poor kids are not going to apply to the charter schools, or at least that is the way it is where I live. There are no bus services, so you have to take and pick up your children everyday. They also require that each child be involved in a sport with a very heavy workload with school work.

Unfortunately, a lot of the rich kids parents have had a very high level of education, and the poor kids parents have had a much lower level. A lot do not find the importance of continuing education. For a lot of them graduation from high school is all that is an extreme accomplishment whereas the rich kids are automatically expected to go all the way through graduate school.

I think that most charter schools are that way... - Kendra

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The problem is that you cannot force people to value education and those children whose parents do not value education will not value it themselves. This is not necessarily a poor problem. My husband's parents always assumed he would enlist in the military and did not care too much about his grades, as long as he passed. I think that they did him a disservice. Even if he joined the military, he would have been better off joining as an officer. Don't get me wrong, I am proud of the enlisted man that I married, but society cannot force people to teach their children that education and grades are important. The unfortunate part is that this attitude is more prominent among poor people and, you are right, the less fortunate among us are less likely to apply to get their kids into better schools. They are also less likely to volunteer at schools to make them better.

I hear you, but what happens when the money is taken from the public schools and given to - charter schools

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My concern is that the public schools will be unable to operate due to the money cut out of their budgets being transferred to the charter schools.

This is not a political debate for me. I'm really concerned that we will be producing a lose/lose situation. Children unable to get to the charter schools will be stuck in schools with no money and no resources so they can learn. Do you see what I mean? I can understand people wanting to send their children to private schools, for many reasons. I did it for a while. But it's the taking tax money to fund the charter schools, cutting money to public schools which is going to force the public schools to cut back to the point where the students won't have a chance. That's all those students have and we're talking about taking it away from them. That bothers me.

I do understand what you are saying, but I don't think - that this will happen

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I don't think that the charter schools will take a lot of money from the public schools. The charter schools I am talking about are public schools that the kids learn on a much higher level. I have a friend now that has her 3 children in one of these schools and another coming up. They are by no means poor, but they also could not afford private school either on 4. The kids are beyond intelligent, and this school keeps them learing instead of twidling their fingers waiting on the other kids. The doctor I used to work for has 5 children and pulled them all out of private school and put them in the charter school when it opened. The school system receives money on how many students they have attending the public schools. When these schools keep kids in the public school system, they actually get more money.

Most of these issues are on a county level. The school board members are aware of who they are elected by and want to keep them happy. For the most part, I think a good portion of them truly value education or they would not put the time or money into even the election process. So, I can't see them dumping on the regular pubilic schools to give the charter schools more.

I agree with you about the situation you described but I am not sure - that is what most states are planning

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I honestly don't know all the details. What I remember hearing reported last week was about pulling tax money from the public schools and giving money to the charter schools.

Let's hope the plan is more like the one you described.

That's their hope. They want a society where - there are only

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the very rich and the very poor. They're not even keeping this a secret. It's obvious by their words and deeds.

There have been a lot of good points made - no1joe

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Personally, I am not in favor of any system where potentially any child could fall through the cracks. It bothers me more when, keeping in mind that the most effective way to put an end to generational assistance or welfare dependence is through solid education and encouragement (if encouragement not provided in the household, then through an educator or the community), it's the children of lower income families that might be in jeopardy. If these kids fall through the cracks, they are more likely to follow the patterns already established, ultimately having to rely on taxpayers in the future and, most sadly, not live up to their potential.

The other point that set my radar off is that charter schools can be corporate owned. I had to ask myself "why?" They are non-profit, so what interest would a corporation have in charter schools? Giving back to the community maybe? Or could it be potentially a marketing tool being footed partially by the taxpayers? The main objective in marketing is to establish a life-long consumer of your product. K-12 sounds like an excellent place to start. Again, this is just my radar talking here, but now I have something to research while I sit with NJA. It should keep me busy.

This is what I see coming - see message

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Scott (hero) Walker is finally trying to get the state out of bankruptcy. Thanks to the last governor who got it that way. Governor Walker is trying to make it fair for ALL citizens of the state and not just the few.

Scott Walker is a hero. The AWOL democrats need to be removed from office and they need to reelect officials who will stay and do the job and work with Governor Walker for the better of the state. If only we could get rid of our pathetic democratic governor and get someone who will fight for every citizen of the state like Walker is.

Thank God for people like Gov. Walker. The rest of the spoiled brats who are doing this just because the democrats lost the election can pound sand for all I care.

Go Gov. Walker!

Again there is so much name-calling in your post that your message is lost - nm

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nm

There was no name calling - I see what side you are on

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Okay I was wrong I did call a name. I called Walker a hero.

AWOL is not a name. AWOL means Absent without leave. It's used in the military all the time.

Also, I didn't call them pathetic, I called my governor pathetic (which he is) so the message was not lost.

I see what side you are on. Thanks for confirming that.

You called Democrats spoiled brats. - nm

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nm

That's because they are - I see what side you are on

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There is a difference between name calling and stating the facts.

Regardless, calling a group of people spoiled brats - IS name calling. sm

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I can also see what side YOU'RE on. So what?

Isn't that what spoiled brats do? Pick up - their toys and take off

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when they don't get their way? Isn't that what the Democrats did? Ran because they knew they would lose in a straight vote? Democrats running from letting democracy work....now there is irony.

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The medical society representing Barron, Burnett and Washburn counties — with 75 dues-paying members — says America’s health-care system requires radical surgery. Tri-County Medical Society Resolution on the High Cost of Medical Care in America WHEREAS, Healthcare costs in the U.S. are exceedingly high compared to other countries, and, WHEREAS, Measurement of quality of care, such as longevity or infant mortality have been documented to be not as good as in other leadi ...

Apr 01, 2011
This is what the unions are up to lately. I think it's ridiculous. This is a free country and they are threatening to boycott businesses that do not put their signs in the store supporting the union. They are out of control. So now they apologize....is that supposed to make everyone feel better? UNION GROVE - Local union members apologized to business owners Thursday after hearing union leadership threatened to boycott businesses. The stunning development happened ...

Dec 08, 2009
EnvironmentThe Fiction Of Climate ScienceGary Sutton, 12.04.09, 10:00 AM EST Why the climatologists get it wrong.http://www.forbes.com/2009/12/03/cli...gy-sutton.html Many of you are too young to remember, but in 1975 our government pushed "the coming ice age."Random House dutifully printed "THE WEATHER CONSPIRACY … coming of the New Ice Age." This may be the only book ever written by 18 authors. All 18 lived just a short sled ride from Washington, D.C. Newsweek fell in line and did a cov ...

Aug 17, 2012
All that taxpayer money down the tubes. "Obama’s GM ‘Success Story’ Headed for Bankruptcy" http://frontpagemag.com/2012/arnold-ahlert/obamas-gm-success-story-headed-for-bankruptcy/ ...

Nov 04, 2016
Whether you like the author or the paper it is from, this story is what I fear is happening to our country. I have had a sick feeling for the last few months as the election gets more and more aggressive and I know that our country will not be better for it after it is all said and done - no matter who wins on Tuesday. Just read it through without thinking about who you support or why. Try to recognize that our country is being torn apart from threats that are being made about what will ha ...

Dec 15, 2010
A top Fox News editor sent an email to staffers and journalists questioning the science behind global warming and directing them to always point out on air that the theory has its skeptics. ...

Mar 22, 2010
Blogger Urges 'Bullet for Obama' on Twitter Secret Service investigating (Newser) – Secret Service authorities are investigating tweets by a conservative blogger apparently urging "a bullet" to President Obama's "head." Solomon Forell, upset by the impending passage of the health reform bill, noted yesterday that because the nation survived the killings of Lincoln and Kennedy, "we'll surely get over a bullet 2 Barack Obama's head!" reports Jezebel. He later a ...

Mar 28, 2010
Prophecies in those generations had not yet come to pass. As of this time, we have seen every prophecy come to pass except the very next event, which is Jesus removing the Church. This is the church age. The time span between the prophecies being written and then being fulfilled is remarkable and speaks mountains. Genesis 49:10 was written in 1440 B.C. and fulfilled in 5 B.C. Isaiah 53 was written in 700 B.C., fulfilled in A.D. 33. Daniel 2 and 7 were written in 530 B.C., which b ...

Jun 05, 2010
Ran some errands today. On the way home, I noticed a sign in front of someone's house with balloons that said "LAYOFF PARTY" Go figure . . . ...

Sep 28, 2012
Something just struck me today. I have a feeling that the truth about the two major candidates for president lies somewhere around the facts that Mitt Romney isn't as bad as his gaffes and appearances might indicate, and Barack Obama deserves a lot more credit than his opponents give him. Disagreement has always been part of political discussion in this country, but I hate where our political climate has taken us--no one DARES to say anything good about "the other side." ...

Nov 12, 2012
That's it for me. I've had it with all you liberals who make this idiocy possible. I'm sure it will be no time at all before Mr. Global President makes this the law of our land. Link ...