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The election of President should be made a matter

Posted: Nov 8, 2016

The electoral college is antiquated and exists now purely for the purpose of hijacking the popular vote to the advantage of the insider elites. The Presidency should be determined by whoever receives the greatest popular vote. If anyone can show otherwise, please do so. ;

Then the big states will always overshadow the smaller states. - Thats why it was enacted.

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Don't they teach history anymore?

Exactly. This is a representative republic - not a democracy

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x

Well, you're both wrong. This IS a democracy, and in a popular election - NO states "dominate" anything.

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It's not a question whether they teach history anymore.

The question is: Don't they teach simple elementary school math anymore?

It is ONLY in a popular election that EVERY VOTE COUNTS.

...and I'm sick of hearing that we're not a democracy. While it's true that in the halls of Congress we have representative government, there is no reason that should be the case with respect to the Presidency.

Every one of the reasons for establishing the electoral college disappeared well over 100 years ago.

It's not a democracy. It's a representative republic. - Woodrow Wilson started using that term

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on purpose. He also changed free market to capitalism. He wanted us to be more like Europe.

Edward Bernays coined the phrase "American Dream" to turn us away from needs to wants.

Who said "a representative republic madam, if you can keep it?" - Benjamin Franklin. He helped

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create it, so he should know.

First you misquote Franklin, then you misunderstand him. - sm

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He said, "A republic, madam, if you can keep it."

...and "republic" refers to the federation of independent states. It has nothing to do with voting, per se.

"Republic" and "democracy" are not mutually exclusive; in fact, the two terms are not directly related at all. You can have a republic that is democratic, or one that is autocratic, or anything in between.

Formally, the United States is a DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC. In some cases democracy is exercised by "direct" elections (one-person-one-vote or OPOV). For instance, local, county and many statewide elections (e.g. for court offices, for the Senate, etc.) are direct elections.

The state and federal legislatures, on the other hand are where the "indirect" components of government exist and conduct their business, namely the activities of those bodies. When they vote on legislative matters, they do so as our representatives - and that is the ONLY aspect of the American government that is "representative."

Some might also argue that the agencies of the executive branch also comprise an element of representative government, but not so because the administrators of those agencies do not answer directly to the people, nor are they chosen by the people.

For the office of the President, which is the only nationwide election that we have, the OPOV rule should apply - which means that popular vote should be determinative.

Under the terms of the electoral college, the OPOV rule does NOT apply which means that voters who happen to be in the minority in one state can be completely disenfranchised, while in another state, voting for the same candidate are not.

This is simply unacceptable, and there is absolutely NO reason for this outdated institution to exist today.

The United States is, inarguably, a DEMOCRACY. That does not mean that there aren't representative components to it, but even those are democratic in nature.

electoral college a good thing - Retired MT

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If we bring an end to the electoral college, the small states will have no say or protection, the large cities will determine the president, and some of those cities (Chicago and Philadelphia for example) are notorious for fraud. Think of this presidential race as 50 races, the candidates must consider the needs and rights of ALL the people, not just big cities who often owned by one political party (almost always democrat.) Do you really like the idea of the political machine in Chicago determining who becomes president, utterly negating your vote if you do not happen to agree?

The electoral college is an effective way of significantly reducing vote fraud and assuring that the citizens of honest states still have their voice.

Also, I would like to reassure you that the state legislatures can step in and appoint a different set of electors, or even order a new election, if it becomes apparent that massive fraud has occurred.

Secondly, congress can also refuse to accept the electors of any state where there is strong evidence that massive fraud has occurred to such an extent that the people's choice has been defrauded of his (or her) electoral votes.

I know that on the surface it may seem unfair that occasionally the popular vote may not match the electoral vote, but you have to keep in mind that it is because there are 50 races, not one race, and each state is to have a voice in proportion to the population of that state.

If you lived in a state with a low population, as I do you would appreciate this. Most of the land in our state is owned by the federal govt, and we would have no say whatsoever in how that land is managed without the electoral college. The electoral college forces the president to consider the rights of the people in our state, not just the people of Atlanta or New York who are perfectly okay with dumping nuclear waste on an earthquake fault line in our state, or denying cattle ranchers access to govt owned land to graze their cattle; this is of economic importance to our state, even though the people of NY City may feel quite sentimental about idea of a "pristine" desert.

Let me explain this again. Eliminating the electoral college - would have NO impact on any state.

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Do you understand how the electoral college works, or why it was established in the first place?

The "states" (large, small, or otherwise) have absolutely no role to play in the election of the President, which is the ONE position in the federal government which is not a "representative" position (such as those in the legislature).

It is ONLY because of the electoral college that you hear commentators talking about this state or that state. If there were no electoral college, there would be no talk about states at all...blue states, red states, swing states, etc., because the only thing that would matter would be the AGGREGATE POPULAR VOTE, NO MATTER IN WHICH STATE THE VOTER RESIDES.

You seem not to realize that the electoral college disenfranchises voters. If we did this at the polling place (disenfranchised anyone who wasn't voting with the "majority"), you'd have riots, and rightly so.

So instead we do it this way - and you're okay with that??!!

Well, our forefathers were okay with it! - meemee

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See link for why there is an electoral college. Makes perfect sense to me - the "factions" that Madison was so afraid of sound a lot like Republicans and Democrats to me!!

Exactly, factions would be special interest groups and - lobbiest as we call them today.

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All this is outlined in the Federalists Papers.

It's just the opposite. The smaller states would be disinfranchized. - You obviously don't understand

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how it works.

Or maybe you think you're smarter than our founders.

Exactly! Our founders were geniuses! - NM

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NM

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