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"Religious beliefs must change" for the sake of abortion, (sm)

Posted: Apr 25, 2015

says, Killery. Way to go, Kill, then we can all murder our 7-month fetuses. After all, at this point what difference does it make?

;

Maybe church on Sunday will help her - she goes, you know

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Zk

If that's not letting the tail wag the dog, I don't know - what is.

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I wasn't aware that religious beliefs were supposed to be blown around by the winds of social mores, or subject to the whims of personal convenience.

Of course, that IS the humanist view. If we must have religion at all, let it for (small-g) god's sake at least be one that allows us to do whatever we please.

The fool has said in his heart, "There is no God." - Enlightenment will come one day.

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...and if, as prophesied, there's some gnashing of teeth on that day, I won't be surprised if it's a rather loud clatter.

Sorry, but God doesn't belong in politics. - nm

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A plaque of Moses is in the Chamber of the - House of Representatives,

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In God We Trust is on our Money. Politics is nothing more than the way we live our lives.

Our government is founded on separation of - Church and State, among other things.

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You'll get a chance to tell Him that. I hope I'm - around to see it.

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x

I don't believe in that foolishness. - nm

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A Friedrich Nietzsche quote comes to mind - here. nomsg

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nomsg

We might, since Iran will soon have the - ability to launch their nuclear

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weapon.

Nuclear war is inevitable. The only thing that - surprises me is that it

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didn't already happen a long time ago.

Conservative simplicity misses meaning - of laws and freedom of religion

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Abortion is legal and other's religious beliefs should not infringe on rights as granted by law.

Several propaganda talking points out in full force today. - sm

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You said, quoting: "Religious beliefs must change" for the sake of abortion, says, Killery. Way to go, Kill, then we can all murder our 7-month fetuses. After all, at this point what difference does it make?

Propaganda imprint in full force here, but that is NOT what Hillary said. Here is what she actually said:

"But far too many women are still denied critical access to reproductive health care and safe childbirth. All the laws we've passed don't count for much if they're not enforced. Rights have to exist in practice — not just on paper. Laws have to be backed up with resources and political will, and deep-seated cultural codes, religious beliefs, and structural biases have to be changed. As I have said and as I believe, the advancement of the full participation of women and girls in every aspect of their societies is the great unfinished business of the 21st century and not just for women but for everyone — and not just in far away countries but right here in the United States."

*****

She's talking about women's ability to receive health care and make their own medical decisions regarding childbirth based on current law rather than based on lawmakers' religion. It's the same thing she's said for decades, that lawmakers should not be allowed to write laws based on religion that undermine a person's rights. It's the centuries old debate of separation of church and state. She simply believes that politicians should not be allowed to write laws based on their religious beliefs that undermine a citizens rights, all citizens, including men and women, in all countries. If you allow lawmakers to interject their religious beliefs in order to dictate public policy, that is a slippery slope that opens the door for theocracy and deciding whose religious beliefs will be imposed on citizens. You would think that those who fear and oppose sharia law could understand the necessity of separating religious dogma from laws that govern our citizens.

Repeating a propaganda talking point and misquoting a politician does not automatically make it a true statement. If I decided to get religious on the "Politics" board and attack a politician's moral character, I believe I would at least practice what I was preaching by refraining from bearing false witness, one of the big 10 tenets of my religious doctrine.

Separation of church and state - anon

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These words are thrown around constantly, but how many people understand it, as it was interpreted by the Founding Fathers?

Excellent. I also like Alexis de Tocqueville's - Democracy in America ,and

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“The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.”

One of my favorites.....
“America is great because she is good. If America ceases to be good, America will cease to be great.”

Here's a link......

https://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/465.Alexis_de_Tocqueville

Nope. The Baptists weren't worried about a national religion: Remember the First Amendment? - sm

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The concern of the Danbury Baptists when they wrote their letter to Thomas Jefferson on October 7, 1801, was religious oppression in the state of Connecticut. The First Amendment had been in effect for about a decade at the time of this letter, and it was universally understood that Congress had no ability to declare a national religion.

The letter to Jefferson from the Danbury Baptists does not mention any national establishment of religion; rather, the letter is concerned with the lack of religious liberty Baptists enjoyed in the State of Connecticut. The Baptists' complaint was that the constitution of the State of Connecticut (not the United States Constitution) did not prohibit the State of Connecticut from legislating about religious matters. Therefore, in their letter to Jefferson, the Baptists argued: "...what religious privileges we [Baptists] enjoy (as a minor part of the state) we enjoy as favors granted, and not as inalienable rights. And these favors we receive at the expense of such degrading acknowledgements as are inconsistent with the rights of freemen... Sir, we are sensible that the President of the United States is not the National Legislator and also sensible that the national government cannot destroy the laws of each State, but our hopes are strong that the sentiment of our beloved President, which have had such genial effect already, like the radiant beams of the sun, will shine and prevail through all these States—and all the world—until hierarchy and tyranny be destroyed from the earth." (see link)

What they meant by "degrading acknowledgements" was a system of religious taxation that forced many Connecticut Baptists to support the established church of Connecticut, the Congregationalists (a.k.a. the Puritans). Within the letter, the Baptists make it clear that they know the POTUS "is not the National Legislator" and "national government cannot destroy the laws of each State," but that they wanted the national views applied to Connecticut. The Baptists found the taxation unjust and discriminatory because it favored Congregationalism over other denominations, so the Connecticut Baptists began a petition campaign to put pressure on the legislature of the State of Connecticut to rescind the tax, and basically the Baptists were seeking the views of the President of the United States to prevail over the laws of the State of Connecticut that was taxing them and making them jump through hoops to avoid having to pay the Baptist church's money to the State of Connecticut. The Danbury Baptists' letter to President Jefferson was part of a large campaign to have the tax repealed.

Jefferson used his response letter of January 1, 1802, as an opportunity to express his own views that the First Amendment created a "wall of separation between church and state." Jefferson's response was in no way an assurance that Congress could not establish a national religion (the First Amendment already did that); it was a response to the Danbury Baptists' concern that religious rights are by nature inalienable. The Baptists wanted the federal view to prevail in Connecticut. Jefferson's metaphor of "wall of separation between church and state" reassured them that this was already true on the national level, and that the federal government had no right to legislate on religious matters in any way.

Does it surprise anyone to find out that the real issue was that the Baptists did not want to have to pay their church and parishioners' money to the recognized church of their State? I can hardly say that I blame them. That "wall of separation" comes in handy when taxes are involved.

History is always more complicated than several sentences - can convey. I do remember

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reading that each state had their own "religion" back then; Maryland was Catholic, Virginia was funded by the Anglican Church, which eventually led to the Great Awakening. Rhode Island broke away from Mass. for religious freedom. This was way before the Constitution.

There's just way too much to discuss here.

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