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What a leader!! Makes speech, delaying (sm)

Posted: Aug 31, 2013

debate until the 9th, so he can have this "debate" in Congress - even though he said he doesn't have to, mind you. Just a ploy so if they say no, he has an excuse, can blame it on the Republicans. Seems to me if he were really serious about this, he'd call them all back from vacation - NOW. How many more will be killed? Well, he's done, made his speech, headed to golf course. He really does sicken me. We are now the laughingstock of the world with this bumbling fool in charge.

;

Don't forget, the more any type or action or decision for no action (sm) - The reality

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is delayed, the more the country will focus on that, and he's hoping forget about the IRS, the coming debt ceiling debate, answers on Benghazi, the train wreck called Affordable Care Act. No one ever said he was stupid. It's just that most of us are getting smarter, and he's so very transparent.

First the cons scream bloody murder when he - didn't consult Congress, now

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they scream bloody murder because he does. They have feverishly been lurching from one tactic to the next trying to make political hay out of the succession of events and their timeline.

Trying to blame the president for Britain's about-face is a thinly veiled effort to mask what everybody already pretty much knows to be the case. The narrow-margin defeat in the UK parliament is widely viewed as being strongly influenced by the flawed/faulty/false intel from W's Iraq debacle. Who can blame them?

Then the cons raised their own doubts over the integrity of the intelligence. Lo and behold, the release of the unclassified report to the media, (which is pending consideration when Congress reconvenes) reveals "thousands" of electronic ease-dropping, satellite imaging and flesh-and-blood sources, including highly placed officials (plural) within the Syrian regime's administration who participated directly in the planning, staging and execution of the chemical weapons attacks. Seems there is no shortage of defectors or "traitors" in Syria these days. Wingers do not seem to be up to facing the daunting task of making a case against the contents of that report.

They are now trying to regroup by reverting back to their comfortable "go-to" scandal mongering, repeal obsessions and golf course grousing, which leads one to conclude that after all this spouting and sputtering, they are running out of gas.

Meanwhile, back in the real world, the so-called "delay" is much more tactical than they can fathom. It is not about the defunct Benghazi and IRS "scandals," nor does it have anything to do with the ACA roll-out next year. It has everything to do with (gasp) consensus-building across branches of government and between the aisles within the halls of Congress, and with trying to build support from other allies such as France, Denmark, and Italy, who have voiced their support of the response.

That said, Obama has made it clear he will act ultimately act alone if necessary in what he considers to be the best interest of the country, regardless of whether he gets support from Congress or from the international community.

On a personal note, I was in the Arab grocery store earlier today where lively debate was taking place. For the most part, the Syrians and neighboring Lebanese there were NOT opposed to US strikes. At this point, they didn't really seem to care much who they get their help from in stopping the civil war or how it comes about, but none of them were willing to see an end to it until Bashar Assad is history. N-O-N-E.

intelligent - breath of fresh air

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appreciate it. Thanks.

Oh please, Nobody is screaming bloody murder - sm

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because he is consulting congress. Where in the world do you get these fantasies.

Maybe you are getting it mixed up with the fact that he said he will consult congress but it doesn't matter because if they don't agree to what he wants to do he's just going to do whatever he wants with or without congresses approval.

There is no proof or justification to wiping out a nation of people who have done NOTHING! They have no proof. You just cannot justify genocide without any proof. That was done back in Germany and look how well it worked out for them.

All I know is if this escalates if affects all of us.

This is not good, but lying about what conservatives are saying is not good.

Obama wants to wipe out a nation of people? Where did you get - that information? NM

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x

Well I didn't quite put it that way - sm

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But the fact is Syria is a nation of people. Population 22,399,254 (in 2012). These are people who are farmers, miners, shop owners, restaurant workers, hospital workers, doctors. It is a nation of people.

There is no reason whatsoever to wipe out a nation of people who have done nothing. Don't you remember Iraq? Innocent people killed. Shock and awe? For what? Those people didn't do anything.

There is no proof. They are telling him not to attack. You cannot attack if there is no proof.

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/09/bashar-assad-obama-syria-no-proof-96166.html

http://www.panorama.am/en/politics/2013/09/02/us-no-proof-against-syria/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2406272/Syria-crisis-No-slam-dunk-proof-Bashar-al-Assad-Syrian-chemical-attack-say-US-officials.html

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/08/25/320470/dempsey-opposed-us-military-syria/

http://thiscantbehappening.net/node/1938

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/10281519/Bashar-al-Assad-interview-Show-me-the-proof-of-regime-chemical-attack.html

http://abcnews.go.com/International/russia-american-evidence-syria-inconclusive/story?id=20133916

You can do more research. But if any country was to attack another country for no reason they are indeed wiping out a nation of people.

that is exactly how you put it - verbatim - and you go on to do it again!

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What? Since when are figures of speech tantamount - to lies?

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It would appear the mix-up here is not being able to differentiate between limited punitive strike and wiping out an entire population. Another mix-up is over which president is trying to do just that. Hint: It's the same guy who just dumped sarin-laced rockets all over the northeast quarter of his country's capitol and has been conducting a bloody civil war of repression against his opponents that has killed more than 115,000 and sent 7 million refugees running for cover.

There not only is abundant video proof of textbook sarin toxicity uploaded by grieving victim families, there are also more than 1,000 electronic easedropping, satellite imaging and human sources gathered by US intel, not to mention the initial forensics reports of hair and urine samples that tested positive for sarin.

what do you mean when you bring up Germany? - nm

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Exactly what I said - nm

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The US is not "wiping out a nation of people" - or committing "genocide."

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Look, I'm against a military strike, but come on. What you're talking about is a completely different situation.

Ah, yes. So nice of him to hold off until Congress comes back - Truthhurts

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You are correct in stating he can blame it on the Republicans. Does he really think he can thumb his nose at our Constitution once again? He has NO AUTHORITY to order or authorize strikes against another country unless they attack us first.

This article shows that he's just trying to wiggle out of his red line bluff. Sorry, liberals, Democrats, or progressives, but if you can't see what he's doing now, you'll never get it and it's a shame you can't see through his deceit. The whole world, especially our enemies, are now laughing at us. That red line will never be a "threat" to them and they will never back down from this country again.
_________________

Obama says U.S. should strike Syria, will seek Congressional approval

President Barack Obama on Saturday backed away from an imminent military strike against Syria to seek the approval of the U.S. Congress, in a decision that likely delays U.S. action for at least 10 days.

Obama, in a statement from the White House Rose Garden, said he had authorized the use of military force to punish Syria for a chemical weapons attack August 21 that U.S. officials say killed 1,429 people. Military assets to carry out a strike are in place and ready to move on his order, he said.

But in an acknowledgement of protests from U.S. lawmakers and concerns from war-weary Americans, Obama added an important caveat: he wants Congress to approve.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-syria-obama-20130831,0,5513950.story

The Constituion states, as you cited, that he has to wait for them to - return.

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Can he legally or ethically compel them to return? I don't know the answer to that question. Or should congressional leaders feel this an issue of such import they should return on their own?

Seems to me he's following the letter of the law.

Has it occurred to you that the presumption that the GOP will - vote against military action

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might just be a false premise that cannot possibly support a sound argument? The polls mentioned here are on the issue of SEEKING Congressional approval. They do not necessarily reflect the ultimate position Congress or the American people will take once they are on the other side of the president's presentation of his case or the perusal of the evidence on hand.

In fact, just this morning Senator Mc Cain was talking at length about the "very, very dangerous" consequences of NOT presenting a "united front" to the rest of the world by failing to support military action in Syria, assuming the evidence for the Assad government's use of chemical weapons to be presented during the upcoming debate is compelling. He, like many of senators, representatives and Americans will be looking for stated goals, strategies, contingencies, etc. If anything, the impression I got from McC is that if the plan is not comprehensive enough, and does not include such objectives such as removing Assad from power, he just might consider voting against it. He also thought that at the end of the day, the Congress will rally around actions that condemn the use of chemical weapons.

This would tend to support the claims made in the article linked below, that TP reps (still in the minority in Congress, last time I checked), not surprisingly, are out of sync on this issue with the rank-and-file. Recent polls, in fact, show 56% (Pew) to 67% (WaPo) MAJORITY of GOP supports military action in Syria, and that their numbers are notably larger than those of democrats AND their noisy, unruly TP factions. Furthermore, it appears that when the question of chemical weapons use enters the picture, that GOP support climbs to 73 percent who think strikes would be justified, as compared to a 64% majority of democrats, according to a CNN survey. Article was published Aug 29, and polls were taken before the SOS and POTUS made their respective statements this past week.

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/114514/syria-2013-polls-say-republicans-most-supportive

the bumbling fool - can we impeach him yet? N.M.

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.

sm - sm

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On what grounds? Being lawful?

What is your point?

In the meantime, here's an awesome read, or example of how to prove a point, in one's own words.

Hey, impeach away. A little pointless busy work - never hurt anybody.

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Just be prepared for an unbearably frustrating process, even worse than trying to get the birther controversy to stick. The prez is squeaky clean in the high crimes and misdemeanors department.

Yeah, upholding the law, holding people accountable - sm

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for their actions when they are criminal, following the laws that are written for a reason...all that is just "little pointless busy work".

But Obama hasn't done anything criminal. - NM

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x

uh huh. okay - whatever you say.

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nm

Please tell us what you're talking about. - thanks nm

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x

I said - okay - whatever you say

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That means if that's what you want to believe then fine.

So, sure, okay, whatever you say.

There's nothing to "believe." Not a criminal is a fact. Please cite his crimes, - arrests, convictions. thxNM

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x

What part of whatever you say - don't you understand

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You don't get it. I'm not arguing with you.

So whatever you say. Conversation over.

Okay... whatever you say. - nm

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x

I'm confused - NK

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You sound disappointed that he didn't give an order this afternoon to go ahead without Congress's approval. If he had indeed given that order, would you have been here starting a congratulatory thread, praising his leadership qualities?

I think we all know that Obama is in a no-win - Libby

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situation.

They're putting the matter before the Congress -- a Congress that wants to see Obama fail more than anything.

They should just grab six or seven hundred 4-year-olds and let THEM debate the issue at hand. At least they would be NICER about it.

The circus is about to begin so let's send in the clowns.

He says he will bring it to Congress, but reserves the right to act anyway. - Oldie

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He's just looking for a way out of an embarrassing situation. I can't wait to hear what his goal is. He said he will not remove Asad so why drop bomb? Does he REALLY believe there will be no consequence? If he does, he's a foolish academic.

When Reagan launched his punitive strike against Libya - sans approval from Congress

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for the 1986 bombing of the Berlin disco that killed only 3 (including 1 American soldier) and injured about 230 (79 of whom were US soldiers), I do not recall any publicly stated goal, do you? I also don't think he made any Rose Garden statements on the subject either. There had been a few vague declarations of Libya's position as one of the 3 in the "unholy trinity" (alongside Russia and Cuba) and the CIA's "public enemy number one" label earlier on in his first term, but that was about the extent of it. Granted, there was evidence of Gadaffi's "state sponsored terrorist" acts, but essentially Reagan felt he needed no other justification beyond political calculations based Libya's stated anti-Israel stance and support of the Palestinian cause and Libya's occupation of uranium-rich Chad, after the Berlin nightclub attack ...reasons that were promptly rejected by the UN before the bombing and soundly condemned afterwards. Alas, Reagan was left to act alone without any support from global allies, and act he did.

There is no need to wait with for the president to repeat the stated goal that he meticulously laid out during his Rose Garden address yesterday (see WaPo link). The CW attack that US intel has linked directly to President Butcher Assad's government "gassed to death" more than 1,400 of its own innocent civilian men, women and children (426 at last count) in Damascus. The attacks were highly effective demonstrations of government might and deadly force of sarin toxicity en masse. These were not the first CWs attacks during this bloody civil war that by now has claimed the lives of more than 100,000 and created millions of refugees, including 1 million children. There are plenty of YouTube videos to browse through detailing horrific effects of the slow and painful death the victims suffered, so many of them of dead and dying children. They are not for the faint of heart and should be viewed only by those who can stomach the images of human beings convulsing, frantically gasping for breath, shivering, foaming at the mouth, hallucinating and enduring unspeakable pain as the agent attacks the nerve centers of their ravaged bodies.

Syria is one of the only 5 countries in the world who has not signed onto the Chemical Weapons Convention ban as of March 2009. The remaining 4 are Egypt, South Sudan, Angola and North Korea. That is what President Obama meant by "global prohibition" of CWs. His decision boils down to the fundamental question of whether or not the US and the 99% of the rest of the signatories say what they mean and mean what they say. It's simple, really. The lession taken from this horror is either regime dictators who flout this convention are held accountable or they are not. He is specifically concerned with state terrorism sponsors who wait and watch for the answer to that question.

He is not merely "consulting" with Congress, but rather is giving them the opportunity many of them have requested to go on the voting record with regard to this issue, as is required by the Constitution, despite the fact that he does have executive order privileges other presidents have exercised in the past, to act on his own as CIC.

So, no, this is not some "saving face" buzz word exercise. It is about who we are as a people and as a country. No one is opposed to war more than I am, but at the same time I am proud that the US is willing to stand up for its principles....this one in particular. It is almost impossible for me to understand how anyone who has had the courage to view those videos could be content to turn a blind eye and simply stand by wringing their hands or hiding behind weak worn-out political rhetoric.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/transcript-president-obamas-aug-31-statement-on-syria/2013/08/31/3019213c-125d-11e3-b4cb-fd7ce041d814_story.html

If it were only the clowns. A mob of arsonists - has gotten into the tent. nm

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x

What confuses me is why was it OK to attack over - imaginary WMDs in Iraq but

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it's not OK to respond to multiple in-your-face WMD attacks in Syria? Also, for the sake of argument, let's presume for a moment those who claim the opposition somehow gained control of Syria's chemical weapons facilities and staged a so-called false flag attack are right (NOT), wouldn't that simply mean the weapons were already stockpiled in unsecured government/military storage facilities? Either way, there is no escaping the fact that WMDs are most definitely present in Syria and that they have been used against innocent civilians at the hands of irresponsible loose-cannon folks inside a country that is a known sponsor of state terrorism: If the US has knowledge of where they are, what is the possible justification for not making an effort to reduce or destroy that arsenal?

ROFL!! That will be the day, when some of these - Libby

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right winger whiners EVER give any credit for Obama for ANYTHING he may do.

As I said before, he's in a no-win situation.

The extreme right has probably already got figured out how to slam Obama REGARDLESS what he does.

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