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Unemployment

Posted: Apr 13, 2010

Here is the historical data from the US Dept. of Labor Bureau of Statistics.

Funny how the last big (and highest) spike was under the Reaganomics regime. As you can see, it isn't as high yet as it was then. I predict it will peak roughly where it did then and will start to go back down as it did then. If it keeps rising and does not show signs of a drop, then I'll panic. After all, most conservatives think Ronnie was wonderful don't they? I thank him for the overseas outsourcing every day (sarcasm).

;

Funny thing that - Pinko

[ In Reply To ..]
spikes or depressions in unemployment are not immediate. They generally take months or years. Reagan was really dealing with the Carter administration's federal reserve blunder and OPEC, which really was not his Carter's fault, and Obama is dealing with prior de-regulation of the banking system and the fall out from that. The uninformed tend to blame federal legislature for the problem and then want an instant fix, when in truth, they really have no power over the economy. The federal reserve generally runs as its own entity and Wall Street....well, we now how they run don't we?

Credit Clinton for outsourcing, his admin legislated NAFTA.

But I believe you to be true and correct, this current recession is not that bad, historically. I do believe it would have been worse without intervention, with at least 20% to 25% unemployment, and if anyone paid attention to South America in the 70s and 80s, you would know how devastating that is.

If you do your homework, you will find that - policies

[ In Reply To ..]
instituted during the Regan years led directly to offshoring being so lucrative.

What policies exactly? - Pinko

[ In Reply To ..]
While Reagan's brand of politics, that has been relatively in force since his tenure, has lead to bigger business of government, which I personaly believe instutes higher degrees of corruption, I am not aware of any specific legislation directly related to offshoring, particularly in the manufacturing quarter, excluding banking.

Economic globalization has not and is not distinctly run along party lines.

I don't disagree that certain political ideology has turned governing our country into governing our country like a huge corporation to be a fault, just saying that it happens on both sides of the fence, with most damaging legislation regarding outsourcing being done under Clinton.

Start with FTA and his use of fast - track

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

FTA with Canada under Reagan - Pinko

[ In Reply To ..]
wasn't damaging. The damage hit with Bush and Clinton with inclusion of Mexico. Now wanting to extend to Colombia....not to mention trade relations with China, which is far more damaging. Fast tracking is through senate approval. No president can do it alone. He started the ball, everyone after ran with it.

Exactly my point - where it - began

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x

It may have began with him, - Pinko

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but it didn't explode to the monster it is now, and you can't lay that at his feet.

If it had stayed between the US and Canada, who have similar economic and social structures, our markets wouldn't be flooded with Made in Mexico, compounded with the rest of our goods Made in China. We would still have Made in the USA and Made in Canada. Don't see much Made in Canada, but I bet they have a boat load of Made in Mexico.

Seriously, you can't lay the fault of Products of Mexico and Chile and Made in China on a man who didn't sign those agreements.

FTA was open-ended - LMN

[ In Reply To ..]
he made sure it could be "improved." Yes, it did start with him and that is the point I am making.

I don't believe so. - Pinko

[ In Reply To ..]
Trade agreements are negotiated with a given country and passed through legislation. How is that open ended?

What did he do, specifically, to make sure it was approved? Regardless, what damaging effects through the free trade agreement with Canada, which is the only agreement he signed, damage our economy?

The point I am trying to make is that he didn't spearhead the idea of free trade. Certain lobbying interests who paid handsomely for his election did, and have continued to do so, with far more egregious effect than the original trade agreement with Canada.

I believe your point was trying to lay blame for our trade crisis on him. My point was that it doesn't. Free trade agreements in and of themselves are a good idea. It's not the first time that a good idea was manipulated into a monster by special interests.

My point - once again - is that this is where it - started

[ In Reply To ..]
That's my point. That's it. Nothing to read into it, nothing more to make out of it. It STARTED with Reagan.

That is where free trade started, - Pinko

[ In Reply To ..]
it is not where overseas outsourcing began. You were thanking, sarcastically, Reagan's trade agreements for offshoring, which he is not directly responsible for through his policies. May have even been his political ideology, but it didn't happen under his watch. Just because he opened the door, he shouldn't be blamed for those kicking it wide open.

In that same vein, one would have to blame Roosevelt for the manipulation of the New Deal by those who gamed the system into the monstrosities they are today.

Seems like a lot of innuendo and not enough supporting facts, not to mention a little spurious.

You can go on forever "in this vein" and it won't change - the fact

[ In Reply To ..]
that it all started with Reagan. The ball began rolling, etc. etc. etc.

There is no fact - Pinko

[ In Reply To ..]
that offshoring, outsourcing over seas, or however you want to coin the phrase, is Reagan's fault. As much as you keep repeating that it is.

Taking a complex subject and trying to boil it down to finger pointing and blame to one man as scapegoat for bad policy that has continued for 30 years, under different administrations who could and should have stopped it but didn't, is simplistic, and repeating myself, spurious.

I think I've stated the case against this type of argument enough for one day.

I am saying this is where it STARTED - why

[ In Reply To ..]
can't you understand that? Look up above...you said earlier that it may have begun with him....then but, but, but.

I am saying that's where it started and that's it.

I'm sorry - Pinko

[ In Reply To ..]
that you cannot differentiate between the beginning of free trade agreements, and the beginning of outsourcing of our jobs, because for the life of me, I don't remember losing sectors of jobs to Canada upon the signing of an FTA with Canada.

Just because he signed the first one, does not make him responsible for everything that came after.

I'm quite sure outsourcing would've happened regardless of who signed the first agreement.

I'm sorry that you don't understand - how it works

[ In Reply To ..]
I've studied this extensively formally and I would have to give you at least a 6-week course just to get you started, possibly more.

That's why I am merely making a statement which is undeniably true.

I really don't expect you to be able to follow the chronology.

yeah, sure - Pinko

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discussion by sarcasm. Was that included the formal study course?

No - LMN

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x

Problem is, it has gotten worse WITH Obamas - "intervention". You people are in denial,

[ In Reply To ..]
..and remember him saying we HAD to have the stimulus bill to keep unemployment under 8pct? Look what happened, and how do you keep defending him? I think you really are dreaming and hoping and wishing. There is no reality to it.

Yep, and the welfare state is getting larger as well! - nm

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

It sure is and it sure will, unfortunately. Gotta love - that Govt power -not.nm

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

No, I don't accept "unfortunately"...take control, throw the - crooks out of office! nm

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

It did under Reagan - too

[ In Reply To ..]
You should read up on it.

Chart wrong - anon

[ In Reply To ..]
Notice in 1980, at highest point, it shows UE at about 9.5% whereas in 2010 it shows UE at about 8%. Yet, unemployment was above 10% end of 2009/beginning of 2010. This is a poorly drawn chart. This shows the fallacy of taking one bit of alleged information and using it to try to prove a point.

It's a chart by the US - department

[ In Reply To ..]
of Labor. The percentages are all relative...same office, same method of calculation. For the sake of the argument, it's relative.

So you are not worried - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
about the unemployment rate under Obama because....hey....another president in the past, a republican no less, had a high rate of unemployment during his term? I just don't get your reasoning for your comments.

Every time a liberal is asked a question about how horrible our economy is, they almost always reply with how Obama had inherited this from Bush. So that is the excuse generally given to give Obama a free pass. However, I don't see liberals saying...hey...look how Reagan inherited a big ole mess from Carter and then turned things around.

Reagan may have had high unemployment during part of his term, but he did inherit a mess from Carter. Reagan turned things around and got the economy going again.

Obama inherited a bad mess from Bush...but so far I don't see what Obama has done to help our economy. Wasting money certainly hasn't helped. The jobs that he has created and/or saved are not sustainable/permanent jobs. Also, he is going to be raising taxes and that is going to hurt businesses who employ people as well as the common folk just trying to get by.

Ah ha, so you had to qualify your statement - before you used

[ In Reply To ..]
the ole liberal excuse eh? This argument isn't even worth getting into. If you can't wait, then I don't know what to tell ya.

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