A community of 30,000 US Transcriptionist serving Medical Transcription Industry

So, the retirement home nurse, obeying company policy, refuses

Posted: Mar 4, 2013

This occurred at a retirement home, not a SNF. The nurse, who did identify herself as one on the 911 line, called 911--following retirement home rules for its employees--when a resident Lorraine Bayless collapsed, but she refused the 911 operator's repeated instruction, and then begging, to initiate CPR, saying it was against the rules, that they were instructed to call paramedics and otherwise stay out of it. The operator then begged her to grab someone who didn't actually work there so the operator could instruct that person in CPR, and she wouldn't, seeming to think that was an inappropriate request.

Ms. Bayless did die at the hospital--really bad publicity for Glenwood Gardens. The person or people who operate behind that name released this statement confirming their policy of prohibiting employees from performing CPR:

“In the event of a health emergency at this independent living community, our practice is to immediately call emergency medical personnel for assistance and to wait with the individual needing attention until such personnel arrives. That is the protocol we followed,” the statement said.

"I'm just following orders." Adequate excuse? Appropriate behavior for a nurse? What would each of us do in that situation?

The link below is to the transcript and the 911 recording released by the Bakersfield Fire Department.

;

I would of course have given CPR, which, presumably like the nurse, - I have training in. sm

[ In Reply To ..]
It's highly unlikely I'd have accepted employment bound by such rules in the first place; but if I had, they would not have bound me.

That nurse exhibited classic right wing "authoritarian follower" behavior. Once having accepted authority, a follower doesn't just stop questioning orders but also relinquishes responsibility for deciding what is right and wrong to the authority. I.e., personal conscience is turned off.

A dem

The nurse is probably feeling pretty bad/confused about now. She thought - she was doing what "people" do.

[ In Reply To ..]
Followers by nature are conforming, and there was at least one person in the background who also dutifully followed the rules the way we're all "supposed to," yet now she's in the news across the nation as a bad person.

It probably is that conscience kicker--that it didn't kick in for her.

And perhaps the group thing--no one stepped forward out of the group to show leadership or independence from groupthink.

NURSE - Effie

[ In Reply To ..]
For me, it all depends on the actual condition of the patient...

Two of my daughers are nurses. They have often been involved in Code Blues where no one wants the poor patient to survive becuase they don't want the patient to suffer any longer. They follow protocol however.. they just take forever to actually DO anything, and that usually gives the patient the chance to pass on.

The family of this patient were probably fully aware of the rules saying no CPR until EMS is there.. therefore, if the fmaily didn't like that rule, they should have moved their loved one.

Very good issue. The nurse did not mention anything - about directives on the lengthy call, however. nm

[ In Reply To ..]
x

I wonder about the patients who reside there - and their advanced directives.

[ In Reply To ..]
I wonder what this patient's advanced directives were. If they were DNR, I guess the nurse did the right thing. But it is hard to imagine she would know if the patient had such wishes.

There's nothing on the tape about code status, even - though she seemed to get pretty defensive.nm

[ In Reply To ..]
The issue really seems to be, why did this person insist on following orders even when it meant letting a patient die?

I have a feeling she did not understand the policy - doe

[ In Reply To ..]
I imagine that the policy to wait until EMS arrives is in place for emergencies like broken legs and cardiac arrest, and is likely delineated so family members do not expect the facility to render emergency care like a hospital or a nursing home.

In this case, EMS began to provide assistance by giving instructions on how to help the fallen woman, but the nurse refused to render it. This is unfortunate and insipid, and dollars to donuts represents a misunderstanding of the policy. Plus, it's very, very easy to access the resident's DNR status if this is an issue.

What I find most troubling about this situation is the fact that the nurse was officious and obstructed EMS from communicating with anyone else.

This is being discussed on a nursing forum. Turns out this rule - is pretty common, and opinions over there SM

[ In Reply To ..]
range from a dutiful:

If it was the facility rule, she was totally correct to obey it.

To a note that there are other steps that could have been but weren't taken the ease the victim's breathing short of CPR.

To severe disapproval of dereliction of duty and immoral behavior.

To belief that she was clearly negligent and will be sanctioned by the state board.

BTW, it's accepted over there that the victim was not DNR and the dutiful employee is neither an RN or an LPN, although she identified herself to 911 as a nurse.

Interestingly, many of the nurses argue that it was okay follow the rule because the resident was OLD anyway and/or CRP often doesn't work out well--ethical and moral issues thus not needing to be considered. Simply not on the table for those in this group. (At 60 I don't personally find the numbers who ascribe to this reassuring, even if they're not a majority.)

When others then point out that, if a young person were visiting and stopped breathing, the same rule would require employees to let even a kid die without aid, echo answereth not... Silence.

she had no right to identify herself as a nurse if she was not one - nm

[ In Reply To ..]

I can't find anywhere that she - wasn't a nurse.

[ In Reply To ..]
.

There's this one I was just reading, but apparently she actually is a nurse... - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
who was hired as a resident services director. In other words, she happens to be a nurse who was hired in another capacity.

"The staffer was identified today as a resident services director, not a nurse as previously reported. The woman repeatedly rebuffed pleas from the 911 dispatcher during a seven minute call on Feb. 26 to give the woman CPR or to ask someone else to do it."

(warning: autoplay video on this link)

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/refusal-give-cpr-elderly-woman-probed-police/story?id=18648941

"CNN asked spokesman Matt Fontana why a nurse would be involved if the facility's policy prohibits staffers from performing medical care.

(Colleen) was hired to be the Resident Services Director and that is the capacity in which she was serving," Fontana explained in an e-mail."

http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/04/health/california-cpr-death/

Is that allnurses.com or another forum? Could you provide a link/URL? - thanks

[ In Reply To ..]
Here's the allnurses.com discussion:

Yes, it was your allnurses.com. - nm

[ In Reply To ..]
x

supporting this theory... - doe

[ In Reply To ..]
is the following quote from the spokesperson: "Glenwood Gardens is an independent living facility which, by law, is not licensed to provide medical care to any of its residents."

Since when does CPR qualify as "medical care". By continuation, this suggests that the staff would not offer to hold a towel on a bleeding gash, or apply a torniquet. Or perform the Heimlich maneuver. It's total BS.

The deceased's daughter is also a nurse - and is satisfied w/ their handling.

[ In Reply To ..]
"Reports identify her at Lorraine Bayless and confirm she did not have a do-not-resuscitate order. Her daughter told 17News she is satisfied with Glenwood's handling of the situation."

Maybe Mom had a good insurance policy. - nm

[ In Reply To ..]
Sad

That's a sinister assumption. - I'm grumpy.

[ In Reply To ..]
Even to this grumpy person.

My kind of dry but pointed humor too, though. - nm

[ In Reply To ..]
x

Well if she were your mother, would YOU be satisfied - with the care she received??

[ In Reply To ..]
I wouldn't.

Absolutely not. BTW, seems this daughter isn't but - would appreciate not being used. nm

[ In Reply To ..]
x

Apparently that's not correct, that the daughter was satisfied with the care. - sm

[ In Reply To ..]

.... Last week, shortly after Bayless' death, the family said they were satisfied with the care she received, according to KGET.

"I never said I was fine with that," daughter Pamela Bayless told CNN Monday before hanging up the phone. "That was completely taken out of context, and I have no further comment."

I'm not surprised and had noticed that there was - no confirmation of this poor woman's quote.nm

[ In Reply To ..]
x

Similar Messages:

Apr 16, 2016
Anyone got good skin rash remedies? I've had a rash on my left forearm for several YEARS.... it waxes and wanes, but is always dry and plaque-like. Very similar to psoriasis, but my arthritis is osteo, not inflammatory, so I'm pretty sure it's just some form of eczema. It's sometimes dry and scaly, sometimes weepy (especially when I scratch too much) and has become scarred as a result. I've tried everything: Cortisone creams, dry skin creams, ant ...

Mar 04, 2013
There is such a ruckus about the nurse at a senior home refusing to help an elderly person there who has collapsed, called 911 and not doing CPR as the woman at 911 pleading her to do so. Others are up in arms about this but the family of the elderly woman apparently not so. What others do not know is what were the elderly woman's wishes, did she and/or the family have something in effect that said no resuscitation, no heroic efforts or the like. Apparently this senior home in California ha ...

Jan 10, 2015
Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks! ...

Mar 31, 2010
Good for him. Hopefully, he will win, but I doubt it. So far, in doing a search, this was the only newspaper article I found. Sad, isn't it? Undated photo of Al Snyder and his son Matthew Related Links Soldier's Dad Ordered To Pay Protestors' Fees YORK, Pa. – The man who was ordered to pay the legal fees of Kansas-based anti-gay protestors who picketed his son’s 2006 funeral says he will defy the court’s order. Albert ...

May 13, 2013
nm ...

May 05, 2011
http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Diplomats+fight+over+fate+wife+wounded+shoot/4727432/story.html ...

Aug 29, 2012
Guess who's coming to dinner!! Unbelievable. No actually, with the democrat crowd, it's not unbelievable at all. link below. ...

Jan 08, 2013
nm ...

Oct 15, 2014
the figures of how much $$ he spends on his taxpayer funded fundraising travels. Why do you suppose that is? He will be forced to but it won't come out till he's long gone, which can't come soon enough for me. ...

Oct 15, 2014
It was stated earlier that anyone who came in contact with Mr. Duncan was being monitored. How is being able to fly commercially considered monitoring? Also, an infectious disease expert from Purdue says Ebola has the potential to become airborne, but it has not been well studied. There are too many unknowns out there. Let's ban commercial travel from West Africa. Call or email your elected officials. ...

Dec 09, 2011
The federal government Wednesday rejected a request to let young teenage girls buy the controversial morning-after pill Plan B directly off drugstore and supermarket shelves without a prescription. In a rare public split among federal health officials, the Health and Human Services Department overruled a decision by the Food and Drug Administration to make the drug available to anyone of any age without a restriction. In a statement, FDA Administrator Margaret A. Hamburg said she had decided ...

Nov 04, 2013
had been expanded to cover making all medical abortions in Oklahoma illegal, and the Supreme Court refused to accept it. ...

Apr 03, 2015
Libs show their hypocrisy AGAIN, which further confirms their attack on Christians only. ...

May 26, 2015
A federal appeals court refused Tuesday to lift a temporary hold on President Obama's executive action that could shield as many as 5 million immigrants illegally living in the U.S. from deportation. The U.S. Justice Department had asked the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals to reverse a Texas judge who agreed to temporarily block the president's plan in February, after 26 states filed a lawsuit alleging Obama's action was unconstitutional. But two out of three judges on a c ...

Oct 29, 2009
Online auction house eBay has blocked an auction that would have raised funds for Scott Roeder, the man accused of killing abortion doctor George Tiller in Wichita, Kansas, earlier this year. According to a report at the Kansas City Star, Iowa anti-abortion activist Dave Leach had been organizing the auction, which would have sold off items such as a manual that instructs, among other things, on how to bomb abortion clinics, as well as a prison cookbook written by a person jailed for abortion c ...

Dec 08, 2013
Sheriff cites that Mandela was not an American. Half-staff is also designated as a respect to the memory of someone who made a profound mark and impact on this world. It's obvioius the sheriff didn't agree with Mandela's ideals or think they were a good thing because being an American is not a requirement for deserving half-staff respect. ...

Jul 16, 2012
he was retired before he wasn’t? According to conservative biweekly Forbes magazine (self described as “The Capitalist Tool”), Romney senior advisor’s gigantic gaffe left beaucoups of questions unanswered....35 to be exact. 1. Are you contending that an individual can simultaneously be the CEO, president, managing director of a company, and its sole stockholder and somehow be “disassociated” from the company or accurately classified as some ...

Mar 11, 2016
Okay, so I got out of MT 3 years ago (for obvious reasons), took a nice little part time job answering telephones for a mom & pop business. I plan on retiring completely in one year, and am trying to get ideas on what you plan on doing (or are doing) in retirement. Or, heck, even if you have many years ahead of you in terms of needing to work-work, I'm open to ideas. I am thinking of volunteer work. I do know that I don't want to sit around and watch movies all day. I'm th ...

May 25, 2017
I have arthritis in my hands and back, progressive eye problems and high blood pressure. After losing several close family members who were in their early 70s, I became extremely depressed working for one of the MTSOs, and I decided I should make the best of my remaining life and decided to take the early retirement to ease the pressure. My part time IC job and retirement income is about $22,000 a year and I have a tiny nest egg stashed away for emergencies. My plan wa ...

Jun 11, 2012
WASHINGTON -- The Supreme Court has refused to hear an appeal challenging President Barack Obama's U.S. citizenship and his eligibility to serve as commander in chief.Without comment, the high court on Monday refused to hear an appeal from Alan Keyes, Wiley Drake and Markham Robinson.The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled the challengers did not have legal standing to file the lawsuit.The U.S. Constitution says only "a natural born citizen" may serve as president. The challengers alleg ...

Jan 04, 2013
He was interviewed by Megan Kelley (sp) yesterday. Good for this official! I hope he stands by his convictions. Good points were brought up. There is NO reason that registered gun owners names and addresses should be released and NO reason non-gun owners would be pointed out at the same time just because they live near someone who has a registered gun. Assemblyman Steve Katz backed Sant, saying the newspaper had exposed the names of those who own guns for no good reason, and said the deci ...

Dec 08, 2016
I am so pleased in my stock increase in my 401K over the past 2 weeks. If this is Trump effect I wish I would have voted for him but I did not vote for president at all given the bad publicity surrounding the 2 choices I was given and I thought the other 2, Stein and whats-his-name were jokes. Outstanding growth in my retirement fund I have not seen in years. Hope our country does as well as the stock market with President Trump in charge. ...

Jan 17, 2013
From the Portland Press-Herald, Yesterday at 12:00 AM/The Washington Post WASHINGTON - A large and growing share of American workers are tapping their retirement savings accounts for non-retirement needs, raising broad questions about the effectiveness of one of the most important savings vehicles for old age. More than one in four American workers with 401(k) and other retirement savings accounts use them to pay current expenses, new data show. The withdrawals, cash-outs and loa ...

Mar 16, 2014
This may be of particular note to MTs, especially because we are being replaced by robots and/or third-world countries. ...

May 18, 2011
So, why not? Hm-m-m. Keep reading. Is the WH Press Office being fair? They're wrong. If the want fair reporting, they should allow the Herald full access. As for the ad, hey, don't they know Romney was the governor of MA at one time? The White House Press Office has refused to give the Boston Herald full access to President Obama’s Boston fund-raiser today, in e-mails objecting to the newspaper’s front page placement of a Mitt Romney op-ed, sa ...

Apr 06, 2017
What do you all think? ...

Jan 06, 2010
Connecticut Sen. Christopher Dodd, chairman of the Senate Banking Committee, is set to announce he will not seek re-election this fall, Fox News confirmed early Wednesday. The five-term Democrat's decision is the latest in a string of big-name Democratic retirements revealed on Tuesday as the party struggles to contend with a challenging political climate. Word of his retirement came hours after North Dakota Democrat Byron Dorgan announced he will not seek re-election, stunning many ...

Feb 17, 2011
I am horrified at what is happening in Wisconsin and many other states. There has been a systemic effort to take away our rights and this is just the latest. If you are a working medical transcriptionist you know only too well about the cuts to wages and benefits. The corporate policies (using political influence) have offshored work, cut wages and benefits, driven workers into unemployment, so that the remaining workers will grasp at any reduced wages and benefits that might ...

Oct 31, 2016
Subject: LARGEST INSANE ASYLUM IN THE WORLD - California Interesting that the LA Times did this. Lou Dobbs reported this on CNN and it cost him his job. The only network we would see this on would be FOX. All the others are staying away from it. Whether you are a Democrat or Republican, this should be of great interest to you! 1. 40% of all workers in LA County (10.2 million people) are working for cash; and not paying taxes. This is becaus ...

Nov 14, 2015
I'm sick to death of this faux President. ...