A community of 30,000 US Transcriptionist serving Medical Transcription Industry
Nurse refusing to perform CPR
Posted: Mar 4, 2013
There is such a ruckus about the nurse at a senior home refusing to help an elderly person there who has collapsed, called 911 and not doing CPR as the woman at 911 pleading her to do so. Others are up in arms about this but the family of the elderly woman apparently not so. What others do not know is what were the elderly woman's wishes, did she and/or the family have something in effect that said no resuscitation, no heroic efforts or the like. Apparently this senior home in California has instructions that in case of a person collapsing, 911 to be called and the arriving emergency team to be in charge of any resuscitation efforts. Another thing the 911 person did was to ask the nurse at the home to have other residents there try to perform CPR on the person down. I can only imagine really elderly people trying to do something like this. Seems like there would be more than 1 person down and more to try to revive than the one they already had. ;
I read that she didn't have a DNR order. - Me
[ In Reply To ..]I honestly think the situation is ridiculous. The place said it is their policy for staff not to perform heroic measures, but rather call for assistance. BUT, calling 911 and the 911 dispatcher having you perform CPR, following their instructions, is still putting the heroic effort into their hands, not yours, so I'm baffled by this.
Was she a nurse with credentials? - see msg
[ In Reply To ..]Perhaps she wasn't even a nurse? Maybe she was a nurse assistant or equivalent, and I would imagine they are not permitted to perform CPR in this situation.
I've heard people call home health aides nurses, nurse assistant nurses, anybody who happens to be wearing scrubs...
Anyone is permitted to perform CPR - sm
[ In Reply To ..]Especially with the guidance of the 911 operator. The 911 operator asked her if there was a gardener or a person passing by that would be willing to take the phone and perform CPR and she said "Not at this time."
the actual quote - sm
[ In Reply To ..]The dispatcher asked the nurse whether anyone was present "that's willing to help this lady and not let her die." The nurse's reply: "Um, not at this time."
I'd love to know what made the nurse even THINK she had a right to make that determination.
I know, that is crazy. - Me2
[ In Reply To ..]It wasn't even an issue of what the 911 caller's scope of practice was or even the nursing home policy. It was a "person" calling 911 and the trained 911 operator prepared to give instructions in CPR and the nurse plain out refusing to follow any type of instruction.
exactly... - sm
[ In Reply To ..]I agree. It has nothing to do with the scope of the 911 caller's practice. In my opinion, the corporation spokespeople are totally snivelling and taking no responsibility.
They are nonsensically supporting the 911 caller in the absence of releasing their actual policy (which, I can assure you, does NOT prevent anyone from rendering CPR).
Evidently, the corporation feels they come out looking better in the end by PRETENDING the nurse followed orders, rather than admitting they have a staff member who is an idiot, a loose cannon, and who WILDLY overstepped her bounds by speaking for others who may have been willing to render CPR and thus obstructed life-saving services.
What it sounds like to me is that she was just grossly - under-trained, following orders too concretely.
[ In Reply To ..]nm
here's what it sounds like to me... - sm
[ In Reply To ..]it sounds like she doesn't understand the rule. Just like lots of MTs don't understand HIPAA and think they are not allowed to use the patient's name in a document.
I think she was confused as well. - sm
[ In Reply To ..]On the recording when the 911 operator was asking if anyone else would be willing to help the lady, when she was saying "Not at this time" she sounded very unconcerned. The policy may have been to call 911 rather than starting life-saving techniques, but CERTAINLY there is no policy that would say to refuse CPR instruction from a 911 operator and refuse to ask anyone else to take instruction.
I worked as a nurse in a nursing home. - MT
[ In Reply To ..]And EVERYONE was required to be CPR certified. Even if a person isn't certified though, they can still perform CPR with instruction.
The law in my state is that a nurse cannot pronounce someone dead, so if I entered a room and the resident was cold, stiff and dead, if he/she did not have a DNR order then CPR had to be performed until EMS arrived, at which time they took over and only the doctor, once they got to the ER could pronounce a patient deceased. The CNAs also had to perform CPR if necessary. I have had to perform CPR on a stiff body with ribs cracking beneath me, which is not so great.
If I end up in a nursing home someday, I think I'll - have DNR/DNI tattooed on my forehead.
[ In Reply To ..]-Meerkat
we don't know what their policy says - sm
[ In Reply To ..]they will not release it.
A policy really doesn't even matter. - sm
[ In Reply To ..]They did release that she was not DNR status. So, regardless of any policy, if you call 911, those people are trained to work with the caller to help the caller render emergency care until EMS arrives. I am sure that family members of the place know whatever the policy is and they perhaps didn't even want their family member to have CPR. It is more of an ethical thing. If a person collapsed at your house and the 911 operator asked to instruct you in CPR, you can definitely say "No" and this seems to be the same scenario, regardless if she was following policy.
agree - sm
[ In Reply To ..]I agree with you. I was reminding the OP that despite her impression that there is a policy against CPR, we don't know what the policy states, as the residence will not release it. This tells me that there is no such policy in place, and that the "nurse" on the phone did not know what she was talking about. It's deplorable.
Just because they will not release does not mean - Wondering
[ In Reply To ..]there was not one. You are assuming now. Many times where there might be a law suit one side will say we are not at liberty to talk about this.....in ligitation, etc. I know for a fact when my mother dying in the hospital her doctor asked me about CPR and I referred him to the husband standing right next to us as he was her next of kin and frankly I did not want to take the responsibility. The husband (another nationality) did not understand, asking me what he meant. The CPR never put into effect, one way or another, my mother died a few days later and not resuscitated but... we had nothing for or against CPR written down.
disagree. They can, and should, release the policy. - sm
[ In Reply To ..]Having a policy against rendering medical care DOES NOT MEAN someone cannot perform CPR. Sorry about your mom. I hope you were able to explain what CPR means to your mother's husband. Advance directives usually have to be in place, whether they be resuscitate or DNR. It's a shame that wasn't on her chart.
Similar Messages:
Ferguson Protesters Demand Paychecks For Gig They Were Hired To Perform.May 21, 2015
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2015/05/ferguson_protesters_demand_paychecks_for_gig_they_were_hired_to_perform.html ...
Why Is Issa Refusing To Include All Gunrunning OpsJun 24, 2012
In an earlier post, the claim was made that looking at gunrunning operations during the Bush administration was "stupid" since everything went so smoothly under the Wide Receiver program. Well then, if that’s the case, WR should stand up under close scrutiny just fine, shouldn't it? The operative word here is "if." The F&F operation was not conceived in a vacuum. The fact that gunrunning tactics were initially (mis)conceived in 2005-2006 is inescapable, as ...
Second Nurse Diagnosed With Ebola Was On Jet Night Before Diagnosis.Oct 15, 2014
It was stated earlier that anyone who came in contact with Mr. Duncan was being monitored. How is being able to fly commercially considered monitoring? Also, an infectious disease expert from Purdue says Ebola has the potential to become airborne, but it has not been well studied. There are too many unknowns out there. Let's ban commercial travel from West Africa. Call or email your elected officials. ...
Moody’s: States Refusing Medicaid Expansion Will ‘Put Pressure’ Aug 15, 2013
"Investor services and credit rating agency Moody’s has some news for GOP governors hesitant to expand their state Medicaid programs under Obamacare: either hospitals in states refusing the expansion, or the states themselves, will feel pressure on their credit ratings due to higher uncompensated care costs and cash-strapped budgets." .... Moody’s has consistently argued that Obamacare is a good deal for hospitals and states. In fact, before the Supreme Court had issued i ...
Sister In Law Refusing To Feed Baby Solids Until 6 MonthsAug 17, 2014
obviously this is her first baby. She has been reading all of the articles and message boards/blogs where people breastfeed exclusively until 6 months of age. Well this is fine and dandy, when she mentioned her intentions early on in her pregnancy I didn't really care, it's not my kid and none of my business. However I noticed a few days ago my nearly 5 month old niece was excessively smacking her lips at a family dinner and screamed out a few times while watching us ...
Bernie Sanders Supporter Boasts On Facebook About Refusing To HelpDec 27, 2016
because she had a Trump bumper sticker. A motorist boasted that he had refused to help a woman whose car was stuck in the snow after he spotted her Trump bumper sticker. Troy Brown took a picture of a stranded vehicle in the snow and posted it on Facebook with the caption: 'I was going to help her but she has a #Trump sticker on her car #CallYoPresident'. He also posted a video of himself purportedly driving on by. ...
Bakers Fined $135K For Refusing To Make CakeJul 08, 2015
Preliminary ruling has been finalized. This decision is wrong. ...
So, The Retirement Home Nurse, Obeying Company Policy, RefusesMar 04, 2013
This occurred at a retirement home, not a SNF. The nurse, who did identify herself as one on the 911 line, called 911--following retirement home rules for its employees--when a resident Lorraine Bayless collapsed, but she refused the 911 operator's repeated instruction, and then begging, to initiate CPR, saying it was against the rules, that they were instructed to call paramedics and otherwise stay out of it. The operator then begged her to grab someone who didn't actually work there ...
Did You Hear That Mooch's Clothing Designer Is Refusing To Design Clothes ForNov 18, 2016
I don't think we'll see Melania coming out with a black widow dress or a chicken feathers gown any time soon. Oh, darn. Poor thing. What ever will she do? LOL ...
Muslim Flight Attendant Suspended For Refusing To Serve AlcoholSep 08, 2015
I wonder how this will go down the Kim Davis' supporters. My bolding.(CNN)A Muslim flight attendant says she was suspended by ExpressJet for refusing to serve alcohol in accordance with her Islamic faith.In a bid to get her job back, Charee Stanley filed a discrimination complaint with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission on Tuesday for the revocation of a reasonable religious accommodation.She wants to do her job without serving alcohol in accordance with her Islamic faith -- j ...