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T-party/Pubs shows true colors

Posted: Sep 13, 2011

At the debate last night, the audience cheered when Ron Paul as wasked "What do you tell a guy who is sick, goes into a coma and doesn't have health insurance? Who pays for his coverage? "Are you saying society should just let him die?" "Yeah!" several members of the crowd yelled out. Paul's explanation: This was, more-or-less, the root choice of a free society. At the last debate, the crowd cheered when Perry was questioned about executions. People executed during his governorship have included one person who was likely innocent, three were under 18 when the crimes were committed, and 10 had serious questions about their mental health. This is the party that wants to legislate birth control, but does not mind letting you die if you cannot afford insurance, and has no hesitation regarding executing people who may be innocent, juveniles or mentally ill. I just do not understand how anyone can be in favor of policies such as these and then consider themselves the "religious party." http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/12/tea-party-debate-health-care_n_959354.html ;

True colors - Mindy

[ In Reply To ..]
Doesn't surprise me either. I'm sure we all have some of these people in our families. I'll never understand how people who are so good in so many ways can be so cold, bigoted, and pretty much just awful in so many ways. Never understand them in a million years, just thankful I'm not like they are.

Health Care Rationing - UnionJack

[ In Reply To ..]
When the government pays for health care, as in the UK and Canada, they decide who gets care and who doesn't based on a decision matrix.

If the government decides you're not worth the money it would take to care for you, the care is denied. You'll die, anyway.

Guess it's all in the "optics." At least under government-funded health care it "looks" like you're taking care of people.

The whole question is a farce anyway. In 2009, $61 billion of uncompensated medical care (free) was given to those without insurance and who could not otherwise afford it. I venture to say that the real-life cases here where somebody "goes into a coma and doesn't have health insurance" and isn't cared for are close to nonexistent.

With the level of vitriol that has been reached on BOTH sides of the aisle, I wouldn't put it past the Democrats to plant people in the audience under the guise of being "tea party members" just to raise a ruckus and make them look bad.

The crowd was filled with neocons. sm - LVMT

[ In Reply To ..]
You could tell by all the boos when Dr. Paul discussed foreign policy. Dr. Paul and his supporters completely reject the Tea Party Express type tea partiers. It has been coapted by the GOP establishment and is completely fake.

I am always amazed when - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
some people can continue to defend the right to poverty and corporate health insurance to approve or deny health care. Do the words "coverage denied, preexisting condition, increase in premiums" mean nothing?

Preexisting condition means just that. - Why would an insurance company

[ In Reply To ..]
insure a preexisting condition? The fact still remains (although I am not the poster that you responded to), that nobody is being denied health care; not the poor, not the illegal immigrants, not those who simply decide not to pay because they should be entitled to everything they get in life for free. Without Obamacare, nobody is dying in the streets from lack of health care.

I think you are very misguided. Are you saying that...sm - VTMT

[ In Reply To ..]
that insurance companies should be able to deny health insurance to people with pre-existing conditions. Who do you think ends up paying for their care while the fat cat CEOs make huge profits? There has to be a compromise. People should not have to crawl on their knees begging for health care.

Yes, I am saying that. - If you want health insurance

[ In Reply To ..]
when you are sick, you should have to purchase it while you are healthy. Should my auto insurance company be forced to sell me insurance after I total my car and then pay me out on it? Same thing. I know who ends up paying for it, but I end up paying for it anyway. Why should the insurance companies be forced to fail because people are irresponsible?

Convoluted reasoning - I can't help but to respond

[ In Reply To ..]
Of course we have heard this so many times before. To clarify, you are saying a person is irresponsible when they have paid health insurance company premiums for say, 30 years, basically have had no claims, then lose your job/health insurance due to off shoring/technology advances/collapsed economy, can no longer afford the insurance premium. Then, say you get a little spot on your skin, but you delay going to doc because you have a choice of food or doctor payment. Finally, you swallow your pride and find a free clinic in a town 100 miles from your home. You find out it is a terminal melanoma that has spread. Hey, but your treatment will be paid for and the hospital will get your house, but you don't need it anymore. Yeah, there you go--buy that insurance when you are healthy. All the T-partiers cheer now!

I thought they made health insurance "portable" - x

[ In Reply To ..]
a long time ago?

"Health insurance" is actually a misnomer, anyway. "Sick" insurance would be a better term. What do insurers really do to "improve" the health of their subscribers?

So many want to bash the rich...if there was significant tort reform included in Obamacare I'd have supported it more strongly. Lawyers will still get rich off medical malpractice, and doctors will continue the CYA approach to medicine to avoid getting sued. Care will never be cheaper or more accessible as long as folks can sue for a gazillion dollars.

Tell that to an unemployed person - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
I think you would find some value in the HBO documentary "Hot Coffee". Here is a link to the trailer:

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/must-see-hbo-documentary-exposes-myths-behind-hot-coffee-lawsuit-and-tort-reform/?_login=fc8099b1a4

Portable is coming thanks to - "Obamacare". nm

[ In Reply To ..]
.

If only that were the norm, rather than the - exception, I might just agree with you.

[ In Reply To ..]
It's a tragic little story that you tell, but most people who don't have health insurance and aren't covered by Medicaid or Medicare, don't have it because they choose not to have it. I know this because I've been there. I had to pay my own ER bills and decided to get insurance. Luckily for me, I did not get really sick during that time, but had I, I would understand why I could not buy insurance.

Ask some people between 50 and 65 y/o - Exception? not so much. nm

[ In Reply To ..]

I know plenty of them. - All well insured.

[ In Reply To ..]
Exception, not the rule.

How many are acceptable to you? - Maybe you should broaden your horizons.

[ In Reply To ..]
Wearing those official rose-colored T-party glasses?

Who said I belong to the Tea Party? - Oh, wait, you did.

[ In Reply To ..]
Then it MUST be true. News flash--not everyone who disagrees with you identified with the tea party. Calm down and don't get yourself in a huff. I still say it is the exception and still nobody is being turned down for care in emergency rooms. Just ask millions of illegal immigrants. I still say that those who are without insurance because there is no possible way they could get it (prior to contracting illness) is the exception, not the rule. But even if it weren't, what makes you think that care for people over 55 would get better with a socialized health care system. Facts are, it won't. It will not only get worse for me, it will get worse for them. God help me if our health care is socialized when I become a senior citizen.

I now receive Medicare and wish every person - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
who has skyrocketing premium costs could just buy into the Medicare program at realistic rates. No longer do I need to worry about not being able to afford my health insurance premium.

Here are some recent stats - Really, go out and meet some people

[ In Reply To ..]
Of the 14.9 million unemployed, more than 2.2 million are 55 or older.

59 million Americans had no health insurance for at least part of 2010.

I am betting a least a couple MILLION are over 50, are unemployed, and have no health insurance.

But I am sure you know someone who does. Good for you.

45,000 exceptions - Not a rule

[ In Reply To ..]
Nearly 45,000 deaths in the U.S. every year are associated with lack of health insurance, according to a study this year by Harvard Medical School and Cambridge Health Alliance published by the American Journal of Public Health.

This article should open your eyes a bit.

http://www.nationalnursesunited.org/press/entry/nurses-say-letting-uninsured-patients-die-is-no-laughing-matter

Nearly 250,000 deaths in the US are due to medical malpractice - x

[ In Reply To ..]
90,000 deaths are attributed to hospital-acquired infections.

Sounds to me like having health coverage is more hazardous to your health.

340,000 possible malpractice cases - Tort reform

[ In Reply To ..]
I wonder how many cases there would be if there was no legal recourse against incompetent physicians/health care workers and unsanitary hospitals?

I wonder how many are from complications of unnecessary procedures - x

[ In Reply To ..]
performed by a doctor trying to avoid getting sued.

We'll never know.

Do you have a link that backs up your assertion? - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
Or is this just an assumption on your part?

Because the only time I was uninsured in my lifetime was because I could no longer afford it. I wanted to be insured very much, but the premiums just got too high. Tell me something: Do you think more than $700 per month for health insurance is reasonable?

I not only had a very expensive plan through my employer, but I was underinsured, with very high deductibles and co-pays. So while trying to pay what the insurance refused to pay, I was still paying out over $700 a month in premiums. (My rent is only $333 a month!)

Does your current plan pay for ER visits, or do you also have a high deductible and/or co-pays?

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