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A lot of people here seem very invested

Posted: Nov 8, 2012

Why is that? Wouldn't it be more constructive to hope things go well, and maybe even contribute to that outcome with some positive discourse? Or are you that full of hate that you can't wait to see the ship sink -- forgetting you're on the ship as well?

;

I personally want his social policies to fail - - just like Rush does (sm)

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Convince me he is not a Commie. Then I'll cooperate. If the ship turns out to be a Commie ship, I'm prepared to go down with it.

not a commie - more of a socialist

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and personally, I don't think that's such a bad thing.

I never post on this board and just read it for fun - but....

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I am wondering if you are a socialist, why don't you move to a socialist country? The United States is a federal constitutional republic and until such time as we the people disavow the constitution, it will remain so. You live under the the constitutional umbrella of freedom, yet you claim to be a socialist. You can't have your cake, have someone else pay for it, and eat it too.

Is there a new world rule....sm - JTBB

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that says one must live in the nation that most predominantly reflects their beliefs? There's a reason we have representatives and senators from EACH state, that reason being representation of the different ideals of the people and bringing those ideals to the table for negotiation. I know this is a hard concept for republicans, but this country wasn't founded on a "my way or the highway" ideology.

I agree with most of what you say but you would have to agree that - backwards typist

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"my way or the highway" is beginning to take hold more and more lately. Mostly, I blame Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi for that.

those who call the president a commie might benefit from - your post...

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though they seem constitutionally unable to understand it.

3 dislikes - case in point

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I guess the fact that we live in a federal constitutional republic is meaningless to those who prefer their own divisive fantasies.

Socialism and freedom can and do coexist. Silly stuff. - nm

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x

They sure do. America is a perfect example - sm

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We have even coined the frame "social" programs, i.e., welfare, Medicare, Medicade, Social Security, Aid to Dependent Children, Food Stamps, foreign aid, subsidies to oil companies. It is a HUGE list. They are indeed "social" programs. We have always done it and always will. I would suggest to the OP who reads "just for fun" that she try living in a country without them.

As I posted previously, this word "social" only became a dirty word when Obamacare was introduced. Where was the outrage when Romney's healthcare law was instituted in the Sate of Mass?

And what do you call the $700 Billion in tax breaks the wealthiest people in this country receive? Job incentives??? Give me a break! It is their own form of socialism, they just like to call it by a different name.

Because Romney's HC didn't involve the whole country, just one state. - backwards typist

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I don't call Medicare and Social Security social programs. We pay for those out of our paychecks. I call that our right to have those since we pay directly for those two programs.

Other programs are paid out with taxes the government takes in from the IRS, taxes on phone services, PUC services, etc., etc. We generally don't know where those taxes go and we don't directly get anything in turn like SS and MC.

Excuse me, but those programs are also for people who did not pay into them. - and so, is Romney socialist? nm

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x

but it's still a social program, BT - nm

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?!

Just reading for fun - what is your definition of socialism? - Do tell. no message

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x

how could we convince you of that? - lol

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In our American form of government, citizens do not have to prove they are innocent. It is up to the accusers to prove guilt. Take a crack at it. Knock yourself out.

And it's impossible to prove a negative. - grits

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They love that fact. They build all their arguments around it.

OP wasn't asking to prove/disprove guilt - -

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of wrongdoing, only that Obama is/is not a communist.

I was trying to make it easy for you - it's a tenet of logic

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We don't want no commie tenets! And everyone knows - logic is nothing but a liberal trick. :) nm

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x

B/c it would prove them right. - RC

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If everything is going horribly, people can shout "I told you so!" and that's more important than anything.

Most conservatives these days lack a DEFINED IDEOLOGY - to guide their thoughts and keep them

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from deviating too far from a set of principles worth standing for. That leaves each person not only vulnerable to the unexamined swings of his own internal compass (don't-like-change) but to manipulation by shysters who seek to exploit this confusion.

American-style conservatism has only been around since about the 1940s and has been peculiarly resistant to definition, perhaps because it tends to be reactive, empiric, rather than rationalistic. Although intellectuals attempt to arrive at definitions of just what it is, William F. Buckley's favorite quote on this problem illustrates it all too well: "Conservatism is a paragon of essences toward which the phenomenology of the world is continuing approximation." This was Buckley humor. I think. You know it must be something good, but that's about it. As a result, as someone else admitted, "Conservativism has become one of those words that are now as imprecise as they are emotionally charged." Most attempted definitions relate to the idea of conserving what is good from the past.

Without a defined ideology, whatever a conservative wants or opposes at the moment is likely to become its definition, good or bad. Too often the dominant emotion is a knee-jerk opposition to something experienced as a threat or displeasingly. Interestingly, conservatives are more easily and strongly disgusted by unpleasant whatevers than liberals, whether it's a used kleenex or a shoplifter.

Liberals have it much easier. Liberalism has been around for centuries, and our own country was founded on well-defined liberal principles. We need look no farther than the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution to remind ourselves of what we stand for and why.

Libertarian principles not liberal principles are what we were founded on - BS

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You have to concede that the founders of this country were very religious and the came here to get away from RELIGIOUS persecution.

God is in the constitution.

Why are you so bothered by the religious people? I am not religious and I am not scared of them. Why are your liberal beliefs more right than their religious beliefs?

I didn't see her mention religion once. - RC

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And certainly nothing about being bothered or scared by religion or god.

Did I miss something?

agree - (I think it was agenda overload)

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Libertarianism has its roots in our founding documents, - not vice versa. Our founders were

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children of the Enlightenment. Nothing's ever that simple, though, and their ideas were also strongly influenced by republicanism--the idea that a government could be ruled by many through a system of laws, as opposed to a monarchy, say. They created a simple framework with the intention that it would be filled in and developed as our nation of frontier colonies developed into a mature nation.

Their strong appreciation for the rule of law is evidenced by how well the excellent system they created works to govern a nation of 300 million people. Also by their creation of the electoral college as what they hoped would act as a sort of safety break between the electorate and who actually gets to assume power.

(Note that republicanism is not a definition for conservatism, only the basis for the name chosen for a political party that started out distinctly more liberal than otherwise.)

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