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Need some Advice
Posted: Dec 11, 2009
Good morning...I need some advice and at this point any advice is welcome :-) I have a 5 year old energetic, funny, sweet little boy who is in kindergarten. I just had a short meeting with his teacher yesterday who said that she is having some real issues with my son in class. She says that he is very disruptive and acts silly all day. She says that he is not mean by any means and is very sweet, but he just simply will not concentrate on the task at hand but would rather do silly things, which of course interrupts what she is doing and also makes some of the other students start acting silly also. She also informed me that if he continues to act this way, she will have to get the principal involved, and that the principal will not do anything as far as punishing him but will call me to come and get him from school! I work from home as an MT and this would not be too much of a problem although I don't want him to miss school. I have talked to him and talked to him about how he needs to act when he is in school. I tell him that he has to be serious and settle down and then when he comes home, he can act silly and play, but school time is not the place to do it. When I asked the teacher if I should request an IEP, she said that really that is for students who are not progressing academically, and he is progressing. At first, he was having trouble with reading and that kind of thing, but now he is coming along with it and really doing well. So, I'm really not sure what I should do. I am definitely going to call his doctor and talk to him even though I really don't want to put him on medication...I have three daughters and never had to go through anything like that and I love his spirit so I really hate to have him take medication that might take that away and make him a zomby! Does anyone out there have a child who is going through this. I just feel that he is in kindergarten and this should really be the fun years, but he is really struggling and trust me, I know my son is a handful, but I don't know what to do!
Thanks ahead of time for any advice, I appreciate it!
;
I've been in your shoes. - sm
[ In Reply To ..]Let me just say that you are stepping into an area that brings with it a certain amount of controversy. People are very passionate about behavior issues and medication. I have a 21 year old son who was very energetic and could be quite disruptive in class. If I could have collected an hourly wage for the time I spent speaking to his teachers through the years, I could have paid for his college tuition with that money!
When my son was a little one, ADD/ADHD was really starting to be noticed, and teachers would come right out and say to parents, "Your son has ADD." (The "H" wasn't used so much back in those days!) At that point, a parent went to the pediatrician and said, "My son's teacher says he has ADD." Doc would simply "try" the children, usually boys, on Ritalin. There weren't lots of med choices then, either, so it was usually Ritalin.
Well, that sort of thing just lit up all the bells and whistles in my head. Knowing what I know from MT-ing, I didn't like medication being prescribed based on a teacher's diagnosis. So, I resisted and refused. The teachers and principal really hated that!
But, I did research and I found that a key characteristic of kids with ADD/ADHD is impulsiveness. While my son certainly fit the description of a hyperactive, inattentive child, he was never, ever impulsive. When he did something, he considered his options and chose to do it. I described him as willful. At home, where he received consistent direction and consequences for his actions, he was very well behaved. At school, this was an issue. For instance, in 4th grade, he was having trouble getting along with another boy in his class. We worked on this for a while, and then one week the teacher decided that it would be best to keep the two boys separated... no standing next to each other in line, no working on projects in the same group, no sitting at the lunch table together. All the parents agreed. Then, just TWO days later the teacher put the boys together to work on a project. I called her immediately, and she said, "Oh, I think they can handle it." What? We made a big deal about this decision, informed the boys about it, and then you changed the rules on them. There were problems right from the moment she put the boys together again. This sort of back and forth was a hallmark at that particular school, and it made life difficult for my son.
We also had issues where my son was picked on and bullied, especially in 5th grade. The principal wanted him to see a psychologist to explore why he was "pickable" so that he could change his behavior. What??? I told her that even if he had a Kick Me sign taped to his back, other children should not tease, hit, kick, or bully another child. As the bullying continued, my son started acting out, and more pressure was put on us to medicate him. I felt as if it were all so obvious, but no one at the school could see what I saw.
Finally, we gave up. We didn't give up on our son, and we didn't medicate him. But we did give up on the school. We tightened our belts and ate a lot of pasta, and we sent our son to Catholic school. Talk about consistency!
Now, I'm not saying that it was the Catholic aspect that was the answer, though we loved that. The answer was the consistency of routines and rules, the small school with experienced teachers of a generation who understood that boys are different than girls. They fidget and they move. They also generally are slower to mature and to develop the neurological connections in their brain which help them with self-control.
My son has never been medicated for behavior issues. He is charming, sweet, intelligent, and a junior in college. He's always needed a bit more time than some of his peers. We kept a strict eye on him, closer than we had to for our other children, because he was willful, NOT impulsive. We allowed no backtalking, insisted on respect at all times, and as parents we made all final decisions, and he knew that. That's not to say he didn't disagree with us! He did! And he reacted in age appropriate ways. As a very small child, he threw monster tantrums. We taught him not to. As an older child, he yelled at us and disobeyed. We taught him a better way to voice his dissatisfaction. As a teenager, when our friends were dealing with mouthy rebellion, we had really great, respectful discussions with our son, who sometimes won us over to his point of view. It wasn't all roses and violins! There were certainly big issues to deal with, and sometimes tears were shed. But we all learned to stay calm, identify problems and then work out the solutions. I actually enjoyed my kids when they were teens, if you can believe that! And now, well, there are just no words to say how proud I am of the young man he is now.
I'm sorry for how long this has become. But I know you are at the beginning of a long journey. You have many years ahead of you to shape your son into an honorable man. You are going to hear a lot of opinions about medication. Doctors, parents of medicated kids, teachers, etc., will give you their opinions as if they are indisputable facts. I feel there is still quite a lot of pressure on parents to medicate their children for behavioral issues. My personal feeling is that you should educate yourself as much as possible. Read and talk to people in both camps, those for and against medication. While you are doing that, be very, very aware of how your own opinion is developing, because it's human nature to seek out information that supports the decision we may already have made. I was often told by doctors and the teachers at my son's first school that I was in denial and was looking for information to support my decision to not medicate. I believe they were correct. At first! So, I kept that in mind. No matter what information I discovered, I'd ask myself why? Who says so and why? What research supports this conclusion. Who paid for the research? Who else agrees and why? etc., etc. It's a very long process.
With such passion on both sides of this issue, with such a lack of agreement, I knew that my husband and I had to make the final decision. The oft used analogy is: If your child had diabetes, you wouldn't refuse him insulin, would you? Well, no, I would not. But if my child had diabetes, we would have lab results to support the diagnosis and I'm sure I'd be hard pressed to find any sane medical opinion that would argue against the use of insulin. With that sort of consensus, the decision to medicate is an easy one. This is just not true for behavior issues. Opinions are all over the board, and diagnoses are made based on intangibles. It's a murky place.
I will say, however, that no matter what decision you come to, you will have to parent consistently. And, if you have a strong-willed child, you will have to repeat, repeat, repeat your techniques until you think you can't do it one more time. And then you'll have to do it 100 times more! Encourage your son to talk about his feelings, listen to him, discuss. Do not allow backtalk, and stay calm even when you think you can't.
If I haven't bored you to tears with this long post, you might want to visit my old blog. I kind of fizzled out with that, but when my oldest was turning 18, I wrote a blog called "Living With Monkeys". ******
Hang in there! I'm sure you have a wonderful son! Learn what you can, teach your child, stay calm, and laugh!
Bravo! - Old part-timer
[ In Reply To ..]I applaud you for sticking to your guns. Too often, the school system simply encourages parents to medicate their children, which solves nothing.
My son is now a tech school teacher and sees these kids get to 10th grade, coming from their home school with medication and an IEP (individual education plan) which they use as their excuse - he actually had one student who they passed on to him with the advice he was a "non-reader." He had to chuckle when he saw that, because he said to complete the program, the boy would have to read. As it turns out, the boy CAN read, albeit slowly, but has been using this "non-reader" thing as an excuse to dally his way through school.
So, when this kid graduates, with all his teachers giving him a pass because he's a "non-reader," who is going to hire him? Who has really benefited from this?
I got off on a bit of a tangent there, but I agree with your basic statement - boys are different than girls and sometimes you have to keep them on a short leash, but medication is NOT the answer.
The schools also... - GGG
[ In Reply To ..]are reimbursed for each child who is "medicated" and is on IEP. It's a racket and our kids are the ones who suffer, in more ways than one.
This is beautiful - Tina
[ In Reply To ..]and nearly made me cry as it touched my heart and hit close to home. You do have a way with words! Also, I couldn't agree more, boys are different than girls (I have one of each). We had a similar episode with my son in kindergarten. They urged us to put him on meds as he was so "hyper"...had a hard time staying seated. The thing is, the reason for him being hyperactive in class was that he was finishing his work before the other kids and was bored just sitting there. However, I did as they suggested and started him on meds. After 2 weeks, we saw no change, I went back to the doc's office and he doubled the dose. We left the office and I threw the prescription in the trash and never went back. He was just a normal, active, everyday little boy and has grown up to be a fine young man! As the saying goes, boys will be boys...and we need to let them!
Another suggestion - Old part-timer
[ In Reply To ..]This would be tough to do, but I always told my boys that, if necessary, I would come to school and sit beside them all day. I'm a home MT and would have to rearrange my schedule, but I told them in no uncertain terms I would do just that if necessary. They never called my bluff, but I always felt that after a day or two of that, they would clean up their act.
advice - Tara
[ In Reply To ..]I understand kids will be kids, especially in kindergarten, but if your son is causing enough of a problem that the teacher feels the need to call you in, I'd probably take heed. He is obviously above and beyond the normal activity of a kindergarten boy. However, I am not one who agrees with medication all the time, especially without proper testing and diagnosis. I would call a local mental health clinic and ask if he could be tested for ADD/ADHD. They have what's called the Test of Variables of Attention which gives doctors a good idea of whether or not your child is suffering from an attention disorder. They would also probably administer the Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children, which is an IQ test that would allow for the doctor to see where he is at intellectually. It is very very possible that your son could be superior IQ in many ranges and is not being challenged enough in school and that is why he is acting out because he is bored and trying to make school more fun!! This test could also give indications of whether or not he is suffering from a learning disorder of some type and if it does put up some flags, they would refer him for further testing on that specific area of hardship. This is the first step that I would take. If they indeed think he has an attentional disorder, I would request that he be put on a trial of non-stimulant medication such as Strattera. I would try to steer clear of Ritalin or Concerta or anything that has a stimulant in it - as that is what would most likely turn your son into a zombie as you would say, although that's not always the case either if the dose is correct. You just need a very qualified child psychiatrist that would work him up gradually on the medication and not just give him one huge dose at once without seeing what works for him.
Just wonder why in the world these problems did not happen years ago? - L
[ In Reply To ..]When I went to school both in grammar, junior high and high there were never problems like you speak of, never knew a kid who was a problem child, never teachers having a hard time keeping kids under control. The thing is, we knew as kids let us get in trouble in school and what would be waiting at home would be even worse. I do not believe in all these diagnoses, I believe it is a break down in the family home, lack of discipline, lack of structure and this is where it winds up.
I have been hearing some interesting info on this - anon
[ In Reply To ..]DH has been telling me about this. I asked him what in the world is going on where we have high incidents of increasing (not abnormal but maybe a better word is out of the ordinary) behaviors. Whether it is child abductions, emotional/psychological things, child molestations, more and more kids with ADD/ADHD (something that was never heard of when I was growing up) and just a whole row of stuff we didn't have growing up. He was telling me that he's been reading about space weather, and atmospheric waves that are coming through that are causing stuff like this to happen. Believe me, when he tells me this stuff I think my eyes glaze over and he can see that most of it goes over my head, but my understanding is that the earth is constantly being bombarded with energy waves that affect our bodies. So, not sure if that is an answer but it kind of does make sense to me (with the very little science knowledge I have).
I am for all measurements that do NOT involve meds!..nm - vr
[ In Reply To ..]nm
End result would probably be the same - Nother opinion
[ In Reply To ..]They could test all they want and would still end up prescribing drugs. Why? Because it's the easiest and the most popular solution.
Forget the psychologists and the testing and try anything and everything else first!
I totally agree!! Drs. themselves 'guess' around and give the wrong meds..nm - vr
[ In Reply To ..]nm
It sounds good, but . . . - sm
[ In Reply To ..]As soon as you start engage in evaluations and testing, you get sucked into the vortex of opinions. And all of the testing, the appointments, etc., no matter how hard you try, sends a message to the child that something is not right. This child is only 5 and he's a boy. I wouldn't make this my first step.
He's a little boy...sm - GGG
[ In Reply To ..]I had 2 and my daughter was the one who gave the teacher's fits. If you're going to be a teacher, you should realize you're dealing with children and learn to adapt. Children have been this way for eons. It is NORMAL...no need to drug these poor kids. Talk to whomever you have to but don't let them convince you he needs to be drugged. Our society just wants to drug everyone who doesn't conform. I know I wouldn't even consider such an option. Don't stress about it. His "activity level" won't harm anyone while drugs will. A healthy diet works wonders also (junk food makes for hyper kids). Good luck!!
drugging little kids - mt way too long
[ In Reply To ..]I agree 100% with you. I had two boys. The second was the more rambunctious of the two. To me he was a typical little boy. The school system thought otherwise. They suggested "drugging him" several times and I said absolutely no. He is now 33 years old so this has been awhile. With persistence and patience that little boy made it through school, is now a big strapping fire fighter for the last ten years and also has a successful towing business, has a beautiful wife and working on those grandbabies! So much for the schools and their drugs. You are right, they just want to drug kids so they will "conform."
Once he is "labeled" ADHD - and on meds
[ In Reply To ..]That will be in his school record and follow him from grade to grade. He will be known as one of "those" students, and while he will likely outgrow his little boy behavior... the label will stick.
Diet - adjustment
[ In Reply To ..]I would take him to a nutritionist or you can just start feeding him oatmeal for breakfast, homemade bread and peanut butter and jelly for lunch with organic whole milk, fruit for snacks, homemade soup or other healthy homemade dinner at night. A child's multivitamin and a vitamin C or juice every day. No video games. Time to run and play outside (even if it is in snowpants) to get the vitamin D from the sun, as well as the milk.
Unfortunately, at my daughter's school they give out candy for good behavior, pretty much all day long. There is pizza and cupcakes for birthdays at school and all kinds of unhealthy school lunches. The food I serve at home just barely even combats that.
My son was a handful also, but everyone learns how to sit still in church or school eventually. It is something easier to learn if the teacher has not just passed out the sugar also.
Diet - GGG
[ In Reply To ..]I would forego the milk and the juice. Neither one are health foods. Milk is made for calves and kids need the actual fruit. So much juice contributes to type 1 diabetes. Research has proven that milk is not for humans. Vitamin D is added to milk... that means that milk does not contain the natural form of the hormone and, therefore, we don't need the milk. We can add vitamin D to anything and that won't mean the product is necessarily good for us. There are more dangers to milk than there are benefits. Exercise builds stong bones, not milk. Research, not to mention good old common sense, should tell us that milk should come from our own mothers and not from the mother of an animal. And the myth continues... ;-)
Gotta have my milk!!! - Tina
[ In Reply To ..]I think that's what kept me alive when I was young as I was a very picky eater...indeed lived on sweets and milk. The doc told my mom to not worry that I would eat when I was hungry. I am perfectly healthy now at 40 and still find that there is nothing better than a big ole glass of ice cold milk...and, on days I splurge, an Oreo cookie, or two, or three!!!
My sis too.... - GGG
[ In Reply To ..]and she also didn't do without bariatric surgery, knee replacements, kidney stones, cataracts and a host of other ailments. But she loves her ice cream... If you're on even one medication, you're far from healthy ;-)
Milk does a body good - Tina
[ In Reply To ..]I take no meds except vitamins. I love ice cream, too...and cheese. Not a thing wrong with me except bouts of depression, and I seriously doubt that milk is causing that, now my job, that's another story!!!
It does a calf's body good... - GGG
[ In Reply To ..]You have no idea... Depression is a diet-related problem, as are most ailments. It will catch up with you. Bad diets always do. You can have my dairy...time for my apple. I love the taste of good health ;-)
probably true! Not everybody tolerates cow's milk well, expecially...sm - vrvr
[ In Reply To ..]since cows are fed hormones; same goes for meat, also lactose intolerance, etc...
I think a person... - GGG
[ In Reply To ..]can learn to tolerate anything....drugs, cigarettes and even the milk of another species. None of these things do our bodies any good, just because we've learned to tolerate them. Even a cow who is very healthy and was never given hormones or drugs of any kind...even her milk wouldn't be good for us. It was designed to make her calf grow to be 600-700 lbs. Since the milk of any species is designed to make cells grow, I would especially avoid dairy if I had been diagnosed with cancer. Those cells would go wild, I would think. Even human milk was made for babies and not adults. When we get teeth, we are supposed to eat solid food...not milk. Such a simple concept. I can't see what is so difficult to understand about it but addictions can be brutal. ;-)
you say he is 5 - BTDT got the tee shirt
[ In Reply To ..]but is he a young 5 or an almost 6 yo?
My little girl went through everything you describe while in kindergarten last year. I took absolutely the wrong approach. I took what the teacher had to say seriously. She is bullying you, plain and simple. It is inconvenient for her to have to deal with a child who doesn't fit her round holes. Maybe she is a dramatic personality herself and she doesn't like competing with him for the other kindergartners' attention.
Please for your sake and for that of your child, don't push yourself about this. Children's behavior many times will fall into place when they are developmentally ready. He is being completely normal for his age. The school K teachers tend to feel not just that they have to teach K stuff, but they HAVE to prepare the child AND the parents for the coming year in first grade. School is not what it was 20 yrs ago. They have inspections and expect results, regardless of whether or not the children are ready to do what the school feels must be done - remember no child left behind, right?
So what is the P going to do, tell you to come pick up the child? Tell them oh you would hate for them to lose their state/federal funds for having to send home YOUR child! pffft. I had such a hard time last year and it was made so much worse because I asked for an IEP. The education _I_ got last year was it was the school, not my kid.
My daughter has an August b'day and is more immature than other children who are exactly her age. I made a mistake by putting her into school when she was just turning 5 instead of waiting until she was turning 6. I held her back to repeat K this year and what a difference in her! And the other difference is that I am talking, talking, talking to other parents. Last year 30% of her class were children in K for the second time (something I found out only this year), so of course her behavior stood out from theirs. She is not the only one in her class this year to repeat, either. The mother of my daughter's best friend in this year's class told me they made a decision about Christmas time last year that R should repeat K and stopped having her do any of the homework or trying to make R fit what the teacher expected. Until I talked to R's mom, I thought I was the only one who had done that last year (same school, different teacher). R has an older sister who was also young for her age to start K, but her personality type made it work for her and she is fine now that she is in the 2nd grade.
All children are different (not just emotionally, but with their fine motor skills) and have the right to be treated that way. I would tell you to relax some, smile a lot and nod your head, and raise your child the way you believe is best. Send me email if you want to talk privately and best of luck! Don't feel bad about yourself or your child :)
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I don't know if I need advice or just want to vent. My husband and I enjoy having close friends over, going out to dinner with them, doing get togethers and other such things. Out of 4 couples, 2 of the couples are so dysfunctional that it makes me crazy. No alcohol is involved here, so we can't even blame that. I don't claim to know what goes on behind closed doors, but when we're all together, it's the women who fly off the handle at their husbands for the stupi ...
Need Cat AdviceJan 27, 2015
My cat is hiding underneath my neighbor's shrubs and will not come home. He is afraid I will keep him inside so he doesn't trust me anymore. He stayed out all night last night and I finally saw him this morning. I tried coaxing him, bribing him with food, and he just ran away to find a safer hiding spot. He got into a cat fight on Friday and got a small puncture wound. I kept him in on Sunday to keep an eye on the wound and he was not happy about it. That's why he doesn' ...
Need Some Advice PleaseJan 30, 2015
I have a problem with my ear. When my pneumonia started, one day I had what I thought was the starting of an earache. Then that went away and I ended up sick just with the pneumonia. Okay it has been 28 days since my first day in the hospital. My ear has been stopped up since then and I have tried Claritin, Auralgan and Cortisporin Otic drops. Nothing is working. What could be wrong with it? I never have problems popping my ears after a cold or getting water in them. I didn't g ...
Need AdviceMar 17, 2017
Need some advice. Here's what happened (by the way, I'm a 25-year MT veteran, which is why I'm posting here). I was unwell at work about 3 weeks ago, and it was determined that I should be admitted. Treatment lasted 8 days, and I feel great now! My doctor said I should apply for FMLA (famliy medical leave) since I took off more time than my employer's policy allows and may have further absences in the future. My doctor completed the form and signed ...
Hi, Need Some AdviceMar 30, 2017
I had a severe dental infection and was given clindamycin. I was hesitant to take it, but did so with a probiotic. Now I am starting to have diarrhea. Does anyone have any advice on treating this OTC? I'm recently retired and have no insurance at present. Thanks in advance. ...
Advice For A New E-Bay Seller?Feb 28, 2012
I have created an exceptional product that I want to list on e-Bay to make some extra money. Are there any experienced e-Bay sellers here who can give me some advice/tips/suggestions? Thanks! ...
Any Advice For Sleeping Better?Mar 28, 2011
Never been a great sleeper, but now I sleep about 1 hour at a time. I try to sleep about 6-1/2 to 7 hours, but am exhausted. Fall asleep fairly quickly, but can't stay asleep. Don't think am apneic. Tried Lunesta without much help. Tried Benadryl, again not much help. So tired. Makes typing misery to be so sleepy. ...
Help - Need Advice. Kittens To Come Mar 25, 2011
From my message below you know we have a stray cat. Today for the first day I held my hand out and she sniffed at the tip of my outstretched fingers. Think she is finally starting to warm up. Doesn't run away when we walk out. Well guess what....she's going to have kittens. At least we are 99.8% she is. She was thin when we started to feed a few weeks ago and now she's got a pouch when walking towards us you can see the sides bulging. Ever ...
Advice To The GirlsNov 03, 2009
Don't imagine you can change a man - unless he's in diapers. What do you do if you boyfriend walks out? You shut the door. If they put a man on the moon - they should be able to put them all up there. Go for the younger man - you might as well, they never mature anyway. Men are all the same - they just have different faces so we can tell them apart. Best way to get a man to do something is to suggest he is too old for it. Love is blind, but marriage is a real eye-opener. T ...
Need Personal AdviceMar 11, 2011
Need advice. My son is 40 and has 2 children ages 12 and 14. He is getting divorced but that's not the main issue. For the past 20 years he has been sporadic in sending christmas cards/gifts, birthday and mother's day cards/gifts. His wife would often cover for him but only some of the time. I don't believe I have ever had a card, phone call or gift for mother's day. The last few years I have gotten nothing on any of the aforementioned "sp ...
Need Hubby AdviceNov 30, 2009
I really need some help here and this is the only place to get it fast. My husband and I are separated. I caught him having "affair" at work, he was paying for some lady at work's car repairs, and sabotaged my daughter's attempt to work in this lady's department, along with lots and lots of lies and secrets and covering up. Short story, when confronted, he moved out and filed for divorce (and, of course is blaming me for the whole thing, saying I kicked him out - ...