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which president is responsible for sending all of our jobs to China?
Posted: Feb 5, 2012
I want to know which president is responsible for sending all of our jobs to China? I do not pay attention to politics and I just want simple answers and no fighting! please.
;
It is India the jobs are going to and it is corporations not president sending them overseas - nm
[ In Reply To ..]xx
Good reply - Nice to see people are paying attention - I aint no lib
[ In Reply To ..]I remember I started seeing the first of it during Clinton's term. Unsure if it was happening before then.
As far as MT jobs, they started going overseas during - the Bush administration. sm
[ In Reply To ..]foreign money/companies got controlling interest in US companies and started sending jobs to India where wages are much lower.
Again wrong - Not the Bush Admin - Clinton signed into law
[ In Reply To ..]You are wrong. Clinton signed into law the ability for companies to move their operations as part of his first 100-day agenda first term. This was part of the NAFTA, which most people thought ONLY restricted outsourcing to North American countries; not so. (Hilary, during her run, claimed she was against this law - yeah rght). Clinton followed that with tax incentives for companies to move their complete operations out of the country. By the time all of the tax incentives kicked in and some of these companies were able to move (it's not like packing up a house), Clinton was out of office. The companies that could quickly and more easily move were the phone banks for credit cards and phone banks for service dept of companies with their other bigger operations to follow. That was the beginning. Nice try blaming Bush, but there are those of us that actually know our history.
Clinton actually signed NAFTA into law but. sm - oldtimer
[ In Reply To ..]the elder BUSH is who signed the agreement along with the president of Mexico and the PM of Canada. The reason for the delay is that it needed to be ratified and by the time it was Clinton was president. Clinton did introduce two amendments that addressed the treatment of workers and environmental concerns. NAFTA addressed ONLY the US, Mexico and Canada.
Can you provide a resource explaining how president Clinton was responsible for offshoring of American jobs. I know it wasn't until about 2002 that MT jobs began to be sent overseas.
Oldtimer - Again, you are wrong
[ In Reply To ..]And no, I am not posting, verifying, copying, listing anything for anybody. If you want the info, plenty of nonpartisan sources you can go to on your own. When sources listed in the past, posters called everything from liars, spinners, etc. Look it up yourself; I did.
We have already been through this recently. - Clinton signed into law
[ In Reply To ..]what GHW Bush fast tracked through (formally signing onto the treaty) in the 11th hour of his presidency. Fast tracking of a treaty means it cannot be subjected to debate or filibuster, and does not allow for any changes to occur before an up-or-down vote, meaning that the final product was HIS handiwork. By adding Mexico, GHW Bush worked throughout his term to expand the pre-existing US-Canada Fair Trade Agreement hammered out by Reagan. You might want to take note that neither CHINA nor India were parties to the NORTH AMERICAN FTA, but since you bring it up, it is also worth noting that the trade deficit between the US and China did not explode until after China's entry into the WTO in December 2001….7 years after NAFTA was signed into law.
US presidents as far back as Nixon had been courting that global partnership. China was the 143rd member, meaning that 142 global nations engaged in supporting its member accession, making it highly unlikely ANY US president could have blocked its acceptance. During these negotiations and the consensus-building process, protections to maintain or improve domestic LABOR or environmental standards were almost entirely omitted. This aversion toward labor and environmental standards (AKA, that dreaded R-word, r-r-r-r-regulations) is and has been a common theme amongst certain US partisans who, for the time being, will remain anonymous.
China’s entry into the WTO was the single most significant contributing factor of the burgeoning trade deficit witnessed since 2001. The US-China trade deficit that had been increasing during the 1990s (up to $9 billion in 1997) virtually quadrupled between 2001 and 2007 (at $35 billion). This is not to say none of it occurred during the 1990s, but the impact on jobs at home was not felt as much due to the ongoing economic growth during that time…the same growth that came to a screeching halt during Bush years.
Source: Economic Policy Institute
To aint no lib - Glad to see someone on this board
[ In Reply To ..]that actually knows history. Too many on here right away rale against any Repub president, and have no clue what they are talking about. You are exactly right; it was Clinton that started this slippery slope.
Guess you didn't notice the stellar economic growth and - lowest UI rates in 30 years
[ In Reply To ..]With the extremely sharp contrast between the state of the economies during the 1990s and 2000 years, the essentially negligible impact of trade laws on domestic jobs until the changing of the guard should be a no-brainer.
Guess you do not see what is happening with the economy - but instead want to believe
[ In Reply To ..]is not true. Your pal was caught in yet another lie stating he created over 200,000 jobs since he's been in office. The true figure is 2,000 and someone had to correct him.
But, hey if believing propaganda is your thing go for it.
The trouble with a sound byte mentality - sm
[ In Reply To ..]is that it fosters a remarkably stunted attention spans. In the post to which I replied, and the one with which it agreed, the only president mentioned was Bill Clinton, that guy who both of you are erroneously trying to blame for the trade deficit with China. I guess somehow in all your geographically-challenged confusion, you two "believe" China was a party to the North American Free Trade Agreement, which was conceived, promoted, negotiated and signed by GHW Bush before he left office, and signed into law by his successor. Therefore, it is only logical that my statement about stellar economic growth (an inconvenient truth you have yet to face) referred to THAT presidency.
I don't much like making presumptions, but I'm gonna go out on a limb here and assume you are trying to highjack the post (on account of being unable to debunk the previous statement) and redirect its focus toward President Obama, whom you are unable to blame for the China trade deficit (you remember...the subject of the thread) since the policies leading up to its emergence occurred before he took office. Therefore, you have implemented highjack #2, by revealing your numbers-challenged misconceptions of the economy's current status, invoking what appears to be wingnut speak for the jobs numbers. You have done so without sourcing the bogus numbers, and making some vague reference to "someone" (I too, had an imaginary friend when I was growing up) having to correct my "pal," whatever THAT means.
OK. Let's see here. The 200,000 jobs you claim my "pal" says he created "since he's been in office" actually refers to the number of jobs created in one month, specifically Jan 2012. Naturally, you low-balled that number as well, since the actual figure is more on the order of 243,000, as reported in the link below. This unexpected increase was accompanied by a drop in the unemployment rate from 8.5 to 8.3.
Now, I think you'd better sit down for this next piece of info and hold onto your hat. The jobs created number over the last 23 months of steady growth is 3.7 million jobs, including growth in the notoriously recalcitrant manufacturing sector. This has ocurred in spite of the do-nothing's best efforts to undermine progress at every turn.
Are we back to where we were before the bottom fell out of the Bush economic disaster area? No we aren't. Have we turned around the 750,000 monthly jobs hemorrhage that happened before he left office? Most definitely. Does the jobs report account for the unknowable numbers of folks who wingnuts claim have allegedly "stopped looking" and are no longer counted? No it does not. That's because there is no real way to take a monthly measure of how many of them have (a) created their own jobs by opening a business, (b) retired, (c) have taken any one of the 249,000 new jobs that were created, or (d) gone to meet their Maker. Hence, for those of us who favor hard data and factual information over speculation, political spin, rooting for failure or forecasting perpetual gloom and doom, all we have to go by is the monthly jobs report, primative as some among us seem to think it is. Regardless, it is that report and those numbers that the electorate will be using to form their perceptions of the state of the economy.
Sooner or later "pal's" opponents are going to have to come to grips with the facts of life here...that their tired, worn-out chicken-little mantra is losing its teeth, that they are actually going to have to show voting Americans how they could do better, and that if they continue to cling to a hate-based campaign centered on claims that have no fctual basis, they are going suffer inevitable defeat in the fall, just like they did in 2008.
http://money.cnn.com/2012/02/03/news/economy/jobs_report_unemployment/index.htm
Sound byte mentality - you're showing yours
[ In Reply To ..]How long did it take for you to misstate and spin original OPs post..probably less time than it takes to read your dribble. OP clearly stated that NAFTA was intended for North American country trade, but laid ground work (i.e., as in let's try the concept with other countries) and opened the door for additional overseas trade. Get it now, understand?? Pay attention or do not quote anyone...you NEVER get it right. BTW, NO ONE EVER MENTIONED OBAMA EXCEPT YOU -- NICE TRY.
President sets the laws, incentives - for overseas jobs - nm
[ In Reply To ..]x
Really? All by his lonesome? - This begs the question
[ In Reply To ..]Have you gotten so accustomed to this do-nothing Congress that you've forgotten it's not supposed to work that way? I could have sworn the reps and senators were the lawmakers. Silly me.
The incentives you speak of are also a function of partisan approaches to tax and trade policies and how they play out within the chambers of Congress. The Constitution pretty much hamstrings the prez in these arenas in terms of autonomous actions and, for the most part, his power does not extend beyond the role of giver or withholder of the stamp of approval.
Sarcasm - Really - Everyone knows Pres goes in with agenda
[ In Reply To ..]Well aware of how Congress is supposed to work. When you have control (like Obama did for 2 years), a lot can be pushed through that would not happen without the super majority. Can be as sarcastic as you want; we are all aware of your long-winded, rambling assessments not informative, but thanks for the effort.
And a lot DID get pushed through those first 2 years. - Its unfortunate
[ In Reply To ..]he was forced to use much of that precious time putting out all those economic wildfires that engulfed the nation when he was sworn in...750,000 jobs lost per month, Wall Street on the verge of collapse, auto industry impending bankruptcy, looming global depression, etc. Then he made good on his number one campaign promise, health care reform, which no other president before him was able to get through.
I don't think it is too hard to understand that, with all the economic EMERGENCIES he had to face, two years was not enough time to address trade policy before the do-nothing saboteurs arrived on the hill.
It's unfortunate - Obama ever elected
[ In Reply To ..]Yeah, we get it...you love the anointed one. Spin all you want, many of us still believe he is an idiot. Cannot wait to see how you think the anointed one is going to resolve the 16-trill in debt (over a 40% increase since the anointed one took office), almost 50% food stamps, drop in average income, no budget EVER SINCE OBAMA IN OFFICE. Yeah, the economy has really recovered (sarcasm there in case you have trouble recognizing that along with the truth). At the rate the Obama lovers are spinning, they'll have themselves screwed into the ground up to their eyeballs. Maybe they'll wake up..doubt it.
It's really funny that - sm
[ In Reply To ..]the ONLY people I've ever seen call Obama "the annointed one" are Republicans.
I've never heard one Democrat or Independent describe him that way.
Who's spinning what?
Reagan - Sorry but it's the truth
[ In Reply To ..]I know people think Ronald Reagan walked on water, and even on this board I have heard people praise him for dedicating a week or month to MTs back in the day. Ronald Reagan was a decent human being who trusted that people wouldn't screw over other human beings, so he deregulated things like banking, etc., which made it easier for corporate greed to get a foothold in this country. I blame him for being such a naive sap because many times only federal laws make people do the right thing. I am not a fan of big government, but sometimes the only thing that protects us is the legality or illegality of an action. If only US citizens could transcribe the medical records of other US citizens, we would all have better-paying jobs. There are laws stating that only citizens can hold certain types of jobs, so why not MT? I would really like to see some politician make some kind of feeble attempt at getting the genie back in the bottle.
I loathed Reagan - 1 paddle
[ In Reply To ..]I actually remember those years. he was a big doofus with a skeletal wife who secretly wanted Frank sinatra. Even his children felt abandoned by him. To sum up his term, Rockin ronnie reagan got some cheese for you. What people were saying about his grand gesture to distribute surplus cheese to the poor.
It was not Reaga - Read your history-it was CLINTON
[ In Reply To ..]x
Yep it was Reagan - Nik
[ In Reply To ..]Google "Reaganomics" and you will find the history of deregulation of banking, savings and loans, pro-union legislation that occurred during the Reagan years. Reagan and others like him thought the free market system would thrive through deregulation, and it did--for the 1% you hear so much about now. Remember the "trickle-down" theory. It trickled, all right. Clinton's trade policies are not the same thing.
I hate Nixon more for opening up China than for Watergate - L&L
[ In Reply To ..]Let's face it, it all goes back to that. If we'd let well enough alone, we might not be facing this terrible threat from the Far East. It's not just jobs...they have hacked into all our computer systems and could probably shut this whole country down.
Wrong question - OABO
[ In Reply To ..]Presidents do not send jobs to China, corporations do.
ta dah!! yes! - nm
[ In Reply To ..]
President Walmart and loyal followers. - nm
[ In Reply To ..].
President responsible - Clinton
[ In Reply To ..]Part of CLinton's first 100-day agenda in office, he signed the law allowing companies to move their operations to foreign countries - entire operation if they chose to do so. Clinton also passed into law incentives for US companies to do exactly that. Meaning that if they moved their facilities to foreign countries, they got tax breaks that the companies would not get if they remained in the US, using US workers. By dates, if you go back in history, you can see the outflow of jobs to China, India, Mexico, etc., after Clinton signed that original law and a massive outflow after the incentive tax breaks under Clinton kicked in. GE alone sent approximately 2-mill jobs overseas for the tax breaks; almost the exact equivalent of the drop in US GE workers.
Yep. GHW Bushs crown jewel to his one-term tenure - was signed by Clinton.
[ In Reply To ..]When one president replaces another, it is customary to conclude any pending actions taken by their predecessor. Once Bush Sr signed onto the NAFTA treaty, it was forwarded Congress for ratification via fast track procedures....no changes, no filibuster allowed, only a straight up-or-down vote. Clinton's minor additions were aimed at encoding labor and environmental standards. It passed and he signed...10+ months (not 100 days) after taking office.
Signed by Clinton - Evidently you don't read either
[ In Reply To ..]OP said it was part of CLINTON'S 100-DAY AGENDA to sign this law and it was. No one ever said anything about 10 months. According to you, if it was SO DISTASTEFUL TO CLINTON,CLINTON had the power to veto it, which CLINTON did not. He was specifically mentioned because CLINTON SIGNED IT INTO LAW. Don't like the history, oh well..BTW Clinton ran on that law as part of his pre-election platform. We all got it you can't stand repubs, but does not give you the right to change history...Nice try.
No one has argued that Clinton - didnt sign NAFTA into law
[ In Reply To ..]I have said it repeatedly, right after pointing out that he neither conceived the treaty, nor did he ever negotiate it with the cosigning parties, promote it to skeptics in the days leading up to its finalization, nor stake claim to it as did GHW Bush when he formally signed onto it in December 1992, then fast tracked it to Congress, forbidding any changes to it. A little less shouting and a little more focus on reading comprehension might be in order.
Now, about that 100 days thingy. BC was inaugurated on Jan 20, 1993. NAFTA was signed into law on December 8, 1993, 10 months and 18 days later. For those of us who can count, that does not fit into the first 100 days agenda. Most incoming presidents spend at least the first couple of weeks assembling their administration. BC was no different. On Feb 17, he made a televised speech in a joint session of Congress outlining his economic plans, which included capping the deficit and a trained focus on budget and deficit reduction....no burning urgency to address NAFTA.
Perhaps a little 1993 legislation time line would be a helpful aid in visualizing the difference between 100 days and 332 days:
02/05-Family and Medical Leave Act
100 days occurs a full month before next item
05/20-Natl Voter Registration Act.
08/10-Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act
11/16-Religious Freedom Restoration Act
11/30-Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act
11/30-DADT
12/08-Ah-ha, here we go...NAFTA
Maybe in some parallel universe, it is permissible to add a zero and substitute the word "days" for "months" when one is called upon to rearrange chronological events for the sake of spinning failed hard-line party dogma with inaccurate accounts of historical realities...but I agree with you. No one has a right to rewrite history back here on Planet Earth, regardless of how much they despise BC or the democrats or how determined they are to avoid admitting that NAFTA was Bush Sr's handiwork.
I feel no need to address the stuff that falls under the category of make-it-up-as-you-go-along, but I will point out that I never said anything about Clinton's "distaste" for NAFTA....just more confabulation on your part. I also feel no need to defend presenting a fuller, more accurate picture of that "slippery slope" by bringing GHW Bush and Reagan, for that matter, into the NAFTA discussion, since Bush Sr picked up where Reagan left off by expanding Reagan's US-Canada Free Trade Agreement. Finally, the picture is not complete without an honorable mention of which party's anti-labor, deregulation and corporation-friendly tax policies have contributed to the jobs drain behind the globalization of trade, all in the name of coddling the "job creators."
Really? Where are the jobs?
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