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So sick of congress!

Posted: Jul 17, 2012

Aren't they supposed to be working for us not against us? Why does each side think it's okay to take the American people hostage as long as it furthers thier agenda? It's not just the tax cuts that will expire, but it also puts into motion the defense cuts that were never supposed to happen, which could put more than 1 million people out of work. I think every single one of them should forfeit thier paycheck until they come up with a plan that helps everyone, not just themselves.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/democrats-threaten-push-america-over-fiscal-cliff-absence-193143016.html

;

A great majority of Americans think the wealthy, the top - VTMT

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are not paying their fair share of taxes and the breaks for them should expire.

Most economists agree that raising taxes on anyone - Zville MT

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in this kind of economy would be a bad thing. Also, I don't see anyone agreeing to any kinds of cuts anywhere else (except defense). They can't just raise taxes and not make any cuts anywhere.

Most people wonder why the rich have gotten tax breaks for 10 years - sm

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But it does not seem to be "trickling" down at all. In fact, there are record profits and richer rich. Apparently giving the rich and corporations (and horses) tax breaks and credits does nothing to stimulate the economy.

The top 1% pay 39% of the taxes. - Zville MT

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How much more is "fair?" How is that 1% giving more money to the government going to stimulate the economy?

further insight into those numbers... - sm

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"Accounting for all federal taxes, the top 1 percent paid 37 percent of their total income (including capital gains) to taxation in 1979. By 2006, that number had dropped to 31.2 percent. The rest of the country also saw a drop in their total effective federal tax rate, but not as large. And over the same time period, the share of all income in the nation going to the top 1 percent increased from 9.96 percent to 22.82 percent."

"In other words, while the total effective federal tax rate on the richest Americans fell nearly 6 percentage points, their share of overall national income jumped more than 12 percentage points. During this same time period, the top 1 percent’s average income increased more than 250 percent, while the average income for the bottom 90 percent increased less than 75 percent. Meanwhile, the top 10 percent saw their total federal tax rate fall over 2 percentage points, while their share of income rose 15 percentage points. This is not how the numbers would stack up if the taxes required of the rich were keeping pace with the gains they’ve enjoyed in the American economy."

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/09/27/324204/report-right-wing-misleading-taxes/

Further insight... - Liberty

[ In Reply To ..]
Hello,
YOU are quoting a LEFT-WING website for your facts about taxes? Is that really fair? Why don't you go to the IRS for those facts rather than go to a website that will distort the facts? I would be interested in seeing the facts from the IRS regarding this matter.

Thank you.

http://general.mtstars.com/303276.html - nm

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nm

for the record... - please note

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I have no problem with "Liberty" questioning the reference I posted. I don't think there is anything wrong with questioning the potential slant of references. I am of the opinion that posters - and thinkers of all kinds - should and MUST question references. This is how we perform due diligence.

Duly noted. - I agree

[ In Reply To ..]
that questioning the integrity of references is a healthy exercise in intellectual inquiry. However, IMO "due diligence" would be better served by directly posting the IRS data of expressed interest that allegedly refutes the thinkprogress information previously presented, commenting on how that information is "distorted," and refraining from personalized all-caps partisan admonishments.

(just to clarify) - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
Just to clarify, I was "sm" above, and posted "further insight into these numbers". (I also posted "for the record" - as I don't mind if a poster doubts my reference.)

I believe it was another poster who spoke in an "all-caps partisan admonishment". I do agree with you that posting the data of interest would have served that poster better. :) thanks.

no harm, no foul - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
You are correct - it is a left-wing website, just as the statistics to which I was responding came from a right-wing website. Just other points of view, that's all.

Of course they do. In 2007, they controlled 34.6% of - the country's total wealth

[ In Reply To ..]
and the top 20% own 85% of all wealth, leaving the bottom 80% with 15% of total wealth. Those figures apply to the beginning of the recession. Since then, the top 1% share ROSE from 34.6% to 37.1%, and the share for the top 20% grew from 85% to 87.7%. During that same time, the wealth of the median household dropped by 36.1%. What's "fair" about that? Do tell.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/deborahljacobs/2011/11/01/occupy-wall-street-and-the-rhetoric-of-equality/

http://www.levyinstitute.org/pubs/wp_589.pdf

http://www2.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html

And now that they are refusing to hire - sm

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people (I believe according to the Republican/National Chamber of Commerce advice and plan), and they showed phenomenol profits, while more and more people were out of work because of this. This is meant to make Obama look bad but also had the outcome of incredible profits for these companies.

And let's not forget Obama's Job czar - GE - Sending jobs to China

[ In Reply To ..]
Along with deals Obama made with Soros'owned and supported Brazilian oil drilling companies, that put thousands of Americans out of work, and let's not forget the deals Obama brokered between China and Govt. Motors putting thousands more of Americans out of work while out taxpayer dollars are used to employ foreigners...ahhhh and then there's Mexico.

Any Americans that Obama tags as rich, should keep their money and screw those that so hate what they rich have worked hard for. The rich are villified by the uninformed no matter what they do. They hire people, you don'the think they hire enough, pay enough, pay enough benfits. They don't hire you because of Obama's destructive abusives policies, you scream they are greedy and un-American...as if you are any judge of character if you support the Imperial Wizard. When was the last time YOU had a boss paying your salary that was on food stamps, collecting welfare, and on Medicaid? Would bet you're part of the 47%.

OBAMA MAKES OBAMA LOOK BAD.

It might help to keep Medicare and Social Security alive - a little longer. nm

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The top 1% pay 39% of the taxes. - Zville MT - Conservative

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Those with no economic understanding will never be able to comprehend your point or taxes. I have never heard one liberal or communist that posts on this board clearly state what "fair share" is because they want to be able to continually move the amount around to satisfy what they want at the moment. They are completely incapable of understanding that the income limit of the "rich" continues to drop, as evidenced by Obama's whim, to suit his needs. Never a peep about the 47% that pay not one penny in federal taxes...nothing fair about that, but the communists never say a word. Like Margaret Thatcher so wisely stated decades ago...with socialism, sooner or later you run out of other people's money. Wonder what the all these ideologues are going to say when their $ 30,000 to $ 40,000 is considered rich?

I know, but I keep trying :) - Zville MT

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The big thing that people need to understand is that even if they took every penny of the "rich," it wouldn't be enough. Then, like you said, that number that started out at 250,000 during the campaign, which has been whittled down to 200,000 today is going to go lower and lower. I just don't understand how it's not "fair" for people to keep more of the money they worked for. I also wonder where the thought that the rich don't pay thier "fair share" comes from - I've never seen thier tax returns. I don't know what percentage they pay, how much they donate to charity, etc.

Margaret Thatcher was a wise lady indeed - too bad so many don't remember history.

I know, but I keep trying :) - Zville MT - Gid bless you! - Conservative

[ In Reply To ..]
They have no sound argument to stand on. They will throw around their sound bites from the Democrats, but have no sound economic knowledge to base their comments on; nor do the Deomcrats. Then because they throw out a bunch of flowery rhetoric that they think is profound, we should accept their illogical, nonsensical thinking. Those with an actual economic education and background recognize their misleading, misguided, uninformed, unintelligible comments regarding "fair shair" mumbo jumbo for exactly what it is. It was started by the socialists to try to make off with more money (go look up the history). Again, as Margaret Tatcher so wisely pointed out to the Brown shirts among many others, you always run out of other people's money. Angela Merkel is getting heat now for the very same things; and she is the only one with a brain in her head, surrounded by a bumch of psychotic socialists and communists. It is a concept that has failed miserably for centuries and yet, they still cannot grasp the failure of that concept regardless of what fancy name they hang on it. They just keep thinking they are going to get free things that someone else has to pay for.

that's a brash statement - beg to differ - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
There is a difference between statistical representation of data and economic reality. I don't think it's fair to assert that those who can see beyond statistical sound bites lack economic understanding.

To the poster that reported this message - Moderator

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This message will remain as it is. She is not calling you specifically a name. She is allowed to state her feelings and opinions just like everyone else. I will not suppress someones opinion because others do not like what they say.

What posters have forgotten is how to develop a thick skin. There is nothing wrong with what she wrote. She did not call liberal communists. She said "liberal OR communist". If you don't like her opinion don't read her messages.

can't imagine it would go over well to call our right wing posters - fascists... but, okay

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She didn't call anyone a communist. - Moderator - see message

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She used communist in a general sense. There are people that live in the United States that belong to the Communist Party just like the Republican, Democrat, Libertarian, Green, etc.

She did not call any specific posters a communist. If you feel strongly and it is your opinion that people in politics are right wing fascists you are allowed to post your opinion too.

Don't know how much clearer I can make this. Posters are allowed to post their opinions about issues or things going on dealing with politics. I will not take away someone's right to voice their opinion. Since she did not call anyone specifically a communist her post stays. Everyone has the right post their opinions regarding politics. I will not suppress someones opinion because a poster doesn't agree with them.

Posters need to develop a thicker skin. This is politics. If you don't like a certain posters posts then don't read them.

if you have an issue with me, I think you should take it - off the board

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I know a place where we can - make cuts!

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Just saw on the news the way Hilary was treated while in Egypt (tomatoes and shoes thrown at her car,signs that say "Go to He11" and "Hilary Clinton, you are not welcome in Egypt") Let's cut the 1.5 billion dollars we send them every year!

US offered $1 billion of debt relief to Egypt - so

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by all appearances, the shoe is on the other foot. The US is jockeying to maintain its usual sphere of influence after President Morsi's election. Every gesture the US makes toward Egypt will be done on behalf of Israel's security, and not necessarily Egyptian democracy, regardless of the lip service being given. As has always been the case, great care will be taken to avoid alienating Israel's immediate neighbor to the south.

It is much too premature to speculate on how the US-Egyptian relations will play out over time. The internal power struggles between the various newly elected and emerging government entities and the former ruling military arm, slated to lose power and influence now that emergency law has been lifted, have yet to be resolved. In the meantime, the Egyptian economy is in shambles and the US is not in a position to cut them out of the budget anytime soon.

Now, about that $3 billion in annual aid going to Israel. Killing two birds with one stone by eliminating aid to them BOTH would make more sense. Let the Saudis bankroll their fellow Islamic brothers and sisters and let the saber rattlers in Israel figure out how to support their own genocidal occupation.

I would be with you except that I don't see any such - hateful signs in Israel.

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I don't understand the whole foreign aid thing anyway - why give money to other countries, especially those that hate us?

EXCELLENT, excellent post! Couldn't agree more. - nm

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I say let's call a moratorium on the aid we - sm

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give to ALL countries (including Israel) and take care of our own back yards before throwing our money to other countries. If we can't/won't help ourselves, how/why can we help others?

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