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Genuinely curious question regarding immigration.

Posted: Aug 7, 2015

I am not a troll or a shill and I'm not race baiting or stirring anything. I am curious regarding the immigration bill Obama has wanted to pass. In everyone's opinion, what would be so wrong about giving migrant workers and their families citizenship? Again, not wanting to cause any sort of trouble, just curious on everyone's thoughts.

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It sends a message that it's okay to break the law - and that

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all the immigrants who came here legally, often via a very lengthy, difficult, and relatively expensive process, did so for naught.

Countries have borders and immigration laws for a reason. Each nation has a finite amount of resources. No one who is not a citizen of this country should think they can come here and demand certain things. Think about it. Would you try to pull that in Saudi Arabia? Or Iran? Or North Korea?

In addition, those here illegally have "anchor babies" who are then - citizens. It encourages more

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illegals to come with that fact alone.

I foresee Obama declaring an executive order for amnesty. It's not sustainable, since many of them get benefits of some sort. I live in California. I see what it's doing here.

Where are they going to work? We already have - 93,770,000 people unemployed

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and the lowest participation rate in almost 40 years. I just read about a new surge of immigrants coming, where are they going to live, where will they work? Are they keeping wages low?

Just think about your children's future with 80 million illegals and counting.

That anchor baby loophole needs to be closed - permanently and restore the 14th

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amendment. The US is the only industrialized country to give blanket citizenship to children of illegal aliens.

It's also a slap in the face to those who came here legally - and obtained citizenship. nm

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nm

Amnesty has become a political tool. It has to be looked at - legally not emotionally.

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Here are a few things to ponder.

The message to the rest of the world isthat anyone that can find a way to enter this country and somehow get to a “sanctuary city” can sign up for a plethora of welfare benefits and live a life of leisure at the expense of hard working American citizens? Yes, this question sounds absurd, but what I have just described will essentially be official U.S. government policy if the immigration bill going through Congress becomes law. It makes US border essentially meaningless.

Did you know the Obama administration has distributed flyers that tell illegal immigrants that their immigration status will not be checked when they apply for food stamps? My husband has to show ID just to enter a government building. One out of every five children living in Los Angeles County has a parent that is in the country illegally.

Any immigration bill that promises border security will be a Trojan horse. 80% of Congress or more have tuned out the American people. All they talk about is how to improve the lives of illegals, spending very little time showing of concern for Americans citizens, who are the ones paying for this.

Forgot to add zerohedge as the source for the first - paragraph. nm

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nm

During the early part of the 20th century, immigrants used to - assimilate into American culture.

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They brought their own identity of course, but they wanted to become American. Now, it's just the opposite. There's no assimilation.

I don't blame the immigrants/illegals. I blame the politicians and groups who promote this.

My grandma came from Poland and had a very - thick accent until her death

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But she learned and spoke English. She understandably resented the Spanish language, bilingual help that newer immigrants got. Having said that, I think immigrants of her era (she arrived in 1915 at the age of 15) were not constantly threatened as to their legality, once they were here they were here (except maybe Irish, who some did not want).

Also, I do think many Spanish-speaking immigrants are segregated by nature of their work such that they spend their days with others who speak the same language, crop workers, landscape workers, kitchen workers, rarely have to interact with English speaking Americans.

My grandma was a maid/governess for rich families in a major metropolitan area, so of course her job depended on her having a modicum of English, and of course the way of life she saw she wanted, she was not treated badly, so completely different experiences.

I also think employers who employ illegals are to blame, and there should be harsher penalties to make them think twice.

I also think that some of these "legal" immigrants who come over with "green cards" have actually bought their way in and it appears we have no way to ascertain whether their green cards are legit.

No lie, my husband was managing a farm and we needed farm labor and the government agency who provided us (Mexican and Guatemalan) personnel even confessed he believed they all bought their green cards and they were not actually legal but somehow there was nothing they could do. So there's that.

It's not an easy issue in any way.

My grandparents came from Ireland and were glad to be here, - they didn't wallow in self pity

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even though there was some backlash at that time. This was in early the 1900s. They assimilated though.

People now come here and expect to get things without working - for it, and their vote counts

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the same as those who work. I think Robert Heinlein was on to something in his book Starship Troopers (I'm a sci-fi fan).

Here's an article by Victor David Hanson, a historian, - that might help answer your question.

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"Can we be honest about illegal immigration?

It is a common challenge to almost every advanced Western country that is adjacent to poorer nations.

American employers and ethnic activists have long colluded to weaken border enforcement and render immigration law meaningless. The former wanted greater profits from cheaper labor, the latter wished more political clout for themselves.

Mexico conspired, too. It received billions of easy dollars in remittances from its expatriates in America. Mexico had few qualms about letting millions of its own citizens illegally cross its northern border into the United States -- even though the Mexican government would never tolerate millions of Central Americans illegally crossing the border to become permanent residents of Mexico.

For better or worse, illegal immigration is tied to race and ethnicity. No doubt, ignorant racism drives some to oppose illegal immigration. But by the same token, the advocates of open borders, many of them with strong ties to Mexico, would not be so energized about the issue if hundreds of thousands of Europeans or Africans were entering the U.S. illegally each year.

There is too often a surreal disconnect about the perception of the U.S. in the immigration debate.

Millions, we sometimes forget, are fleeing from the authoritarianism, racism, corruption and class oppression of Mexico. They have voted with their feet to reject that model and to choose a completely different -- and often antithetical -- economic, social, cultural and political paradigm in the United States. Somehow that bothersome fact is lost in the habitual criticism of a hospitable and magnanimous America.

Then there is the matter of law. America went to war over the Confederate states' nullification of federal laws. A century and a half later, do we really want hundreds of sanctuary cities, each declaring irrelevant certain federal laws that they find bothersome?

For every left-wing city that declares immigration statutes inoperative, a right-wing counterpart might do the same with the Endangered Species Act, gun registration laws, affirmative action or gay marriage. The result would be chaos and anarchy, not compassion.

Controversy has arisen over the number of undocumented immigrants who have committed felonies or serious misdemeanors, such as the Mexican national -- a repeat felon and deportee -- recently charged with the fatal shooting of a young woman in San Francisco. But the furor begs the question: Why would any guest violate the rules of his host? And why is the data on such violations so hard to come by and so prone to controversy?

Either the number of undocumented immigrants who commit crimes is so vast that no one knows the extent of the problem, or there are political hurdles in determining that number -- or drawing politically incorrect conclusions from it.

We should not minimize criminality. Creating a false identity, using a fraudulent Social Security number and knowingly filing inaccurate federal forms are serious felonies for most Americans. They are neither minor infractions nor simply the innocuous wages of living in the shadows, but undermine the sinews of a society.

Numbers also count. When millions come to a country illegally, integration breaks down and tribalism takes over. Do we really want permanent Balkanized ethnic lobbies, frozen in amber -- another century of a monolithic Asian, white or Latino vote? Are Americans to fragment even more, as they collectively sigh, "If they vote predictably along ethnic lines, I guess I should, too"?

President Obama talks grandly of "immigration reform." But he apparently does not mean what most Americans would assume from that faddish catchphrase.

Reform should first include strict enforcement of the border. A new, ethnically blind immigration system would select from among applicants based on skill sets and education, and consider candidates from all over the world -- not on the basis of ethnic identity or proximity to the border.

Immediate and lasting deportation would ensue for those who committed crimes or cynically chose to receive public assistance rather than work while here illegally.

Many Americans are in favor of offering a path to legal residence to those undocumented immigrants who have long lived and worked in the U.S. and have crime-free records -- after they pay a fine for breaking federal law and then wait patiently in line while the legal process plays out -- as long as the border is sealed to prevent future illegal immigration.

If some newly legal residents wished to become full-fledged citizens, then they could pass citizenship and English tests and assimilate into the American body politic.

Somehow I doubt that this fair, reasonable process is what the president really wants."

I also recommend reading books on the collapse of Rome.

Illegal immigration is also a concern in Europe. The - problem is like in the USA, Europe

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s so PC and like here all illegals, no matter who, can be used as new voting base. There many 5th columnists in those groups, like here.

euobserver.com/news/129815

Because... - see msg

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Because it's not fair. Our European friends have to jump through hoops to become a citizen and/or to stay in this country. Why can't Obama give them amnesty, too?

And just for the record, if you or I tried to jump the border into Mexico, we'd be shot.

The only interesting part of a Republican being - the next president

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is to see if the policies that have been pushed by the Obama administration suddenly do not have the opposition they currently have.

Many conservatives support all sorts of economic policies that are extremely dependent on migrant workers and their families, yet they are currently opposing President Obama's immigration reform, I think, purely on the basis of it being President Obama proposing the policies.

There is no end to open immigration. El Salvador and - Guatemala (with the help of DHS

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and Obama) actually bus them here. Then they get on the US gravy train. That's not assimilation.

Amnesty is the ends justifies the means philosophy. - It justified going around the law

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for a political agenda.

It's anti-Constitutional and treasonous, but so many - Americans are asleep or see life

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through politics only.

I do solemnly swear that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.”

Our Constitution has not been defended. In fact, it has been undermined.

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