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Just curious...
Posted: Oct 22, 2013
What's your take on this? (not the twitter message, but the fund raising letter). Even leaving out your personal feelings on the tea party, is this okay?
https://twitter.com/BenHowe/status/392658731143417856/photo/1
;
No. KKK image indelibly connected with murder and atrocities. - Now, many say the TP is just today's J Birch
[ In Reply To ..]Society, and the parallels there are unmistakable. One of those the-more-things-change-the-more-they-stay-the-same. Medicare and the Civil Rights movement were causes for radical right hysteria, especially radical social conservatives, when I was a kid.
That none of the many things that were always destroying our country ever even came close has never given those people the perspective they need to evaluate events. Many of our TPers/far right social conservatives on this forum are old enough to remember the angst of a number of decades, too.
Due to lowered white birth rates, we're now in an era which will see all the minority groups together pass the white population in number, an inevitability to which they will continue to react extremely poorly. They have no idea why we need the Federal Reserve, but they're outraged that no one else understands why it must be destroyed. The same with many other groups and institutions they target. So it's likely their conviction that it's up to them to "save America" at any cost will continue at very least as an angry screech in our national ears, whatever label they wear at the moment; at worst, it could threaten the wellbeing and stability of our nation.
The KKK at least thought things out to their logical conclusions and rode out with clear goals in mind. The radical right, as we see too clearly, are not honest with themselves about what it would require to get what they want and what would be lost and so are not constrained by those realities.
Tea Party members are now murderers? - Seriously?
[ In Reply To ..]I can't believe that you can draw any kind of parallel between the Tea Party and the KKK. Didn't anybody go to school and take a US History class?????
Extremely well stated. Third paragraph spot on. - ty for writing this nm
[ In Reply To ..]x
EWWW. - shel
[ In Reply To ..]I guess you are super intelligent or something beyond what I can fathom, but the fact that you could say anything positive about the KKK (last paragraph) shows I would rather be a regular old person than intelligent like you. I am sure you think Hitler was also a great goal setter with logical conclusions in mind! Yikes.
I'm not sure how this conclusion was extracted, but there was nothing positive in this post - about KKK unless
[ In Reply To ..]you read just a fragment of a sentence.
For instance, using Hitler as an example, one could say, at least Hitler had a goal in mind in his slaughtering 6 million Jews if writing a composition about a random slaughter of people in, let's say, a mall, movie house, school, etc. The author is not condoning the slaughter of Jews, but emphasizing the senselessness of the other equally atrocious taking of lives.
One may think it's witty to use a fragment of a sentence out of context in order to twist the author's thought, but more often it is interpreted as the reader's inability to comprehend a obvious and clear comparative statement.
Thanks for asking. - I think
[ In Reply To ..]Alan Grayson wouldn't feel the need to invoke such imagery if the TP could undergo some attitude and behavioral adjustments. He's probably cease and desist (ya think?)....
Maybe when TP hecklers cease spitting on House Democrats (Rep. Emanuel Cleaver) outside the Capitol, calling them “n**ger” (Rep. John Lewis) and “faggot” (Rep Barney Frank)
Maybe when TP House reps (Michelle Bachmann) stop telling us us black children were better off during slavery days, like this:
“Slavery had a disastrous impact on African-American families, yet sadly a child born into slavery in 1860 was more likely to be raised by his mother and father in a two-parent household than was an African-American baby born after the election of the USA’s first African-American President.”
Maybe when Reps like Louie Ghomert stop equating homosexuality with bestiality, necrophilia and pedophilia
Maybe when TP state senators like Scott Beason of Alabama stops referring to blacks as “aborigines”
Maybe when TP protesters stop flashing signs announcing their prejudice at their gatherings
The sad part is.... - Mary
[ In Reply To ..]Is that there are people that will repost these images and pin them on the Tea Party. Spreading such as this - you should be ashamed of yourself....
No, the TP should be ashamed. They've done nothing to rehabilitate this perception at all. - so it is what is is NM
[ In Reply To ..]x
Actually that's not - true.
[ In Reply To ..]Any time something like that comes up, all the tea party "leaders" condemn it and state emphatically that those people are not representative of the entire tea party group. It seems, though, some would rather hold on to the few instead of listen to the majority.
Can you link me to a public condemnation by a TP leader? - ty
[ In Reply To ..]Sarah Palin, Ted Cruz, et al made speeches in the backdrop of a Confederate Flag. To me, that is an endorsement of racism. You'd never see any Democrat or a nonracist public figure making an appearance with a racist image in the immediate vicinity.
TP leaders will not publicly condemn these images because they know their base will be compromised.
You can follow any number of tea party - leaders...
[ In Reply To ..]such as Kevin Jackson, Niger Innis, and David Webb (all of whom are black) and you will hear that the very few that show up at these rallies and make trouble are not affiliated with these groups - you have fringe wackos with any gathering - and that those in the group ask them to leave. See, you see pictures of these people, but you don't realize that they may have only been at the rally for a few minutes before being asked to leave because their message isn't welcome.
We had someone in our tea party group that one night at a meeting started spouting off about Obama, using the n-word, and we politely asked her to leave and not come back, so I'm not saying they're not out there, but you just can't judge an entire group by the nutsy few who seem to get all the media coverage.
I'm sure that's true, but why don't the TP leaders openly/publicly renounce - the racist image? nm
[ In Reply To ..]x
They do - you just have to be - listening. (nm)
[ In Reply To ..]#
Why? Actions speak far louder than words. Sounds like - you may not belong with them. nm
[ In Reply To ..]x
Yes they do - that's why I'm - saying
[ In Reply To ..]that these people are more often than not asked to leave any rally or meeting they attend. Just because you don't see much of this in the media doesn't mean it's not happening. David Webb has spoken many times on his radio show about this, warning these people not to show up because they will not be welcome.
Maybe I don't belong to the fringe group that seems to glom on anything that appears to be against Obama, but neither do the majority of those that simply don't believe in his policies. I don't care for Hilary Clinton or Harry Reid either and I can't stand Nancy Pelosi. It's really a matter of we don't agree with the policies of this administration and the democratic party in general - I just can't see how that's racist.
I agree. But it would be nice to hear that sentiment stated by TP - leaders publicly.
[ In Reply To ..]Again, I don't think they do because they don't want to lose their racist base.
Also, just for that radio personality to have to address racism in his program, acknowledging it as a problem, asking racists not to show up, is a big indicator that a very thick vein of racism is present in the Tea Party.
Okay, obviously you're going to have your - own opinion
[ In Reply To ..]without ever listening to proof of the contrary. I've given you several different venues to hear the truth, but you don't seem like you want to hear it. That's fine, but I'm done.
Have a fantastic day :)
Well, it's not my opinion. No TP leaders address this issue. Again, link me to a leader, - any elected TP official
[ In Reply To ..]who is willing to renounce racism.
Again, no opinion. Fact.
Racists are part of the TP and hopefuls will not risk losing that vital influence.
Oh, I listen. Can you link me to something I may have - missed? thx nm
[ In Reply To ..]x
No, the Dems just put white sheets on and burn crosses in the yards - of black families, and don't say
[ In Reply To ..]they weren't democrats. They founded the KKK.
Hope this isn't a big shock, but the KKK back then were - HARD RIGHT CONSERVATIVE Southern Democrats who
[ In Reply To ..]for some time now have identified themselves as either strong-to-hard-right Republicans or Tea Partyiers. The KKK, which is hard-right conservative, is still around, of course.
You see, for a century after the Civil War, Southern conservatives, including KKK sympathizers, hated the mainly Republican northeast establishment, so they registered Democrat, even though they had about as much in common with liberals as boiling oil does with cool water. (The source of Will Rogers' quotes, "I am not a member of an organized political party. I am a Democrat." and "You've got to be optimist to be a Democrat, and you've got to be a humorist to stay one.")
When moderates and liberals of both parties, but mostly Democrat, put through the various laws we now call the Civil Rights Movement, these hard right conservatives finally broke with the Democrats and joined the overall more moderate conservatives in the Republican Party, and the result is the swing of the GOP to the far right we see today, and the giant schism between moderate conservatives and these others.
Note that significantly more of the insurgent, ultra-conservative Republicans who identify themselves as Tea Party these days are from the South than any other region of the country.
Next we'll hear that Lincoln was a Republican. - sm
[ In Reply To ..]They know all this, and that the Democratic and Republican parties of today are not the same ones they were pre-Civil Rights Act and the Southern Strategy. It's just RW site buzzwords/catchphrases that they use constantly, to supposedly prove that the conservative movement today can't be inherently racist/discriminatory because after all "their" guy freed the slaves and the Dixiecrats were racists, yada-yada. It's not worth even feeding by disputing because the whole argument is so intentionally disingenuous in the first place.
Maybe you're giving them too much credit. Could be they are - history challenged ;-) nm
[ In Reply To ..]x
You've got a point, especially if they're of a younger generation than I am. - sm
[ In Reply To ..]I didn't have to overcome the kind of disregard for facts that many students have to today due to revisionist history textbook changes.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/17/AR2010031700560.html
I still think a lot, if not most, of them really know what they're doing when they play the "Lincoln was a Republican" game (or the KKK were Democrats, ad nauseam), though.
They MUST be "history challenged" if they believe - Libby
[ In Reply To ..]that Abraham Lincoln was anything BUT a republican!!
And, of course, when LBJ - NK
[ In Reply To ..]signed the Civil Rights Act, he said, to paraphrase, the Democrats just lost the South.
Actually, what he said - was,...
[ In Reply To ..]to paraphrase, "I'll have those n-words voting democrat for the next 100 years."
The KKK was started by a Confederate General and former slave trader named - Nathaniel Bedford Forrest in 1866
[ In Reply To ..]He wasn't a "hard right conservative." He was definitely a Democrat and racist. The Ku Klux Klan dedicated itself to a campaign of violence against Republican leaders and voters (both black and white) in an effort to reverse the policies of Radical Reconstruction and restore white supremacy in the South.
Because of all the violence attributed to the KKK, Republican southern governments asked Congress for help, and got 3 laws, mainly the KKK Act of 1871, which was the first time the violence was considered a federal crime.
The White Supremisists movement (like today's Aryan Nations) took over the group in the early 1900s, but still called themselves the KKK. These members were not conservatives, nor were they Republicans.
Alan Grayson, along with his followers, has a very bad illness called hatred. He needs a mental evaluation because of his outlandish episodes. I cannot believe FL voters were that crazy that they put this man back in charge of running the government. Hopefully, after this episode, they will see the error they made and throw him out once again.
.
Please check the map farther up. There were NO - southern Republican states. You'll see
[ In Reply To ..]they were all clustered in the northeast.
Also, Republican and Democrat are party labels that, as we see, parties not only often change positions on issues, but can flip entire philosophies over a century.
Whereas conservative and liberal are personality predilections/orientations that we are to some degree be born with and are reinforced by environment. In Lincoln's day, Democrat was the conservative party that fought to save slavery. Lincoln was a Republican moderate pragmatist who always intended to end slavery if he could.
Yep, you got my point with posting the maps for comparison. - sm
[ In Reply To ..]The parties are both basically 180 degrees diametrically opposite their historical origins now, which is obvious when seeing the demographics remaining virtually exactly the same in terms of the split but the colors of red and blue exchanging places from Lincoln's day to ours.
http://general.mtstars.com/365683.html
"With the stock of liberal Republicans and conservative Democrats nearly depleted, the Republican Party is now the conservative party and the Democratic Party is now the liberal party. This is an ideological reversal. The U.S. now mirrors many parliamentary systems in that the ideological outliers are de-minimis. Outliers who get elected are also usually the most electorally vulnerable in that they invariably represent states and Congressional districts inhospitable to their party’s ideology. The Republican Party, once the liberal party is now the conservative Party. The Democratic Party, once the conservative party is now the liberal Party. The ideological role reversal is now complete."
http://politi-geek.com/2013/06/democratic-and-republican-ideologies-undergo-dramatic-role-reversal/
Analysis of attitudes of members, not just official statements, - show it's very true. nm
[ In Reply To ..]x
If you really wanted to know, you would do your - own unbiased analysis. nm
[ In Reply To ..]xxx
I agree. Tea Party is a state of mind, small govt, low - taxes, personal responsibility. SM
[ In Reply To ..]This has been posted numerous times on this board. People believe what they want. I like the way Rush addressed this...
"Always remain above the taunting. Always remain above the insults. That's how you'll learn to be confident. Never lose the confidence of what you believe. Never. 'Cause if it's in your heart and if it's in your soul, it's who you are. Don't let somebody talk you out of being you."
Alan Grayson and other members of Congress linking - just me
[ In Reply To ..]fellow Americans called Tea Party is disgraceful.
This subject has been discussed many times on this board. The ones who demonize the Tea Party want to believe the lies about them. There is no changing their minds.
The dislike votes are a badge of honor. nm - just me
[ In Reply To ..]xxx
Is TP "state of mind" willing to take personal responsibility for 24 Billion - it cost the economy?nm
[ In Reply To ..]x
They are not responsible for that - dems are
[ In Reply To ..]They should not take responsibility for something that is not their fault.
Fault lies with the dems for planning this out way ahead of time and carrying out their plans.
People want to believe all the lies about the TP, - just me
[ In Reply To ..]I don't feel like I need to defend myself. They opposition always has to demonize those they are most afraid of, not only demonize, but destroy with the help of MSM (AKA Ministry of Propaganda).
They planned it? How could they plan for Ted Cruz to come up - with a silly plan like
[ In Reply To ..]trying to defund a law passed by Congress, upheld by the SCOTUS? They planned that?
This whole thing is the GOP's fault. Even they admit it.
That's just crazy! (sm) - Libby
[ In Reply To ..]It was all Ted Craze and his 21-hour filibuster and all the other tricks he used.
I just can't believe that there is an allegedly semi-intelligent person out there -- someone who VOTES and holds such a nutty opinion, when every single thing surrounding this shutdown was orchestrated by the TP!!
That a lie, but nice try. xxx - not buying MSM lies
[ In Reply To ..]x
Enjoy the echo chamber. Ted is finding out how lonely it really - can be NM
[ In Reply To ..]x
Sounds high-minded as heck. But reality requires - respecting this country for those it is
[ In Reply To ..]made up of and wanting to do the best for everyone -- that's the high ground.
Resenting and despising three-quarters of fellow Americans, including everyone to the left of the far right, and, yes, for a large majority of TPers everyone who isn't "white" or Christian is most assuredly not.
You have chosen to believe the TP are KKK. We've tried - to tell you that's not true. nm
[ In Reply To ..]xxx
And I've twice specifically said I do not. - What's this about truth? nm
[ In Reply To ..]x
So what you are - saying is...
[ In Reply To ..]that because some members of the tea party made hateful signs (there's no proof that any congressman was spit on by anyone, BTW), it's okay for him to do this kind of thing? I think that's a very dangerous game to play.
I "liked" your post, not because of the content you (sm) - Libby
[ In Reply To ..]provided but because you had the courage to expose some Americans as they truly are!
Thank you for posting these horrific photos. :-)
Maybe I didn't phrase my question right... - ZvilleMT
[ In Reply To ..]I didn't want this to be about the tea party - I know it's very unpopular right now, so I didn't mean for that to be the topic of discussion.
What I meant by "is this okay" was should this kind of rhetoric be considered the new norm during the election cycles? Should this kind of thing be tolerated or is this offensive? What could or should be done (if anything) about this type of imagery being used?
I'll repeat briefly, then. IMO, No. It's over the line - as well as inappropriate. nm
[ In Reply To ..]x
What did he say exactly was FALSE? (sm) - sm
[ In Reply To ..]In my opinion, all he did was act like a republican.
How's it feel?
Seriously? - sm
[ In Reply To ..]That's really sad.
No, it's not okay to me. - sm
[ In Reply To ..]I'm no fan of the TP, but I think that image crossed a line.
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