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Forgive and forget vs. an eye for an eye, plus interest


Posted: Sep 28, 2012

If Romney and Obama team up to eat a bag of live puppies during the debates, the only difference in the two parties will be which candidate they think did a better job eating those puppies.  So, this brings me to a conundrum.  How many people on either side believe our differences are resolvable?  I.e., if you don't get 100% your way, will you be miserable for all eternity?  It sounds like most people on both sides will be. 

Romney creates universal health care and he's a hero.  Obama does it and he's a socialist.  Obama gives billions of taxpayer money to bail out rich people and he's a hero.  Romney wants to give the rich a tax break and he's a plutocrat.  Obama says he's a Christian and people call him Muslim.  Romney says he's Mormon - a religion that most Christians looked down on, mistrusted and called a cult for years - and people call him a Christian now because they need to vote for him.  It's all about context.  

This is why George Washington is rolling over in his grave right now.  He warned us against the two party system.  That it would eventually create two equally insane and ridiculously stupid groups who oppose each other with all their strength and can't muster up the courage for bipartisanship.  That's the nature of the human race.  There has to be an Other.  Else we'd have to blame ourselves, right?  Bad things won't happen to me because I'm good.  Good things won't happen to my enemies because they're bad.  Then when bad things happen to us, we rationalize that we too must have failed in some way.  That way we can theoretically be extra good this time around and nothing bad will happen to us again.

Othering is a common and every day occurrence.  I do it every time I laugh watching an idiot hurt themselves on YouTube.  "I couldn't do something that stupid," I say to my computer monitor because I don't think talking to my computer makes me look nuts.  But is that true?  I once pepper sprayed myself.  Would a smart person do that?  I think not. 

So, again, how does everybody else feel?  Do you think the country can ever be patched back together again.  Can you come to tolerate, if not actually give a hoot about your acid tripping hippy or meth addled hillbilly neighbors?  Will your post begin with something like "I'm extremely tolerant and easy to get along with, but they are hate spewing, fear mongering, free loaders who don't deserve to have any rights or freedoms and I can't wait until [insert your candidate here] wins and forces them us all to be [insert your religion or lack thereof here] and fixes the economy by re-distributing the wealth to the [your favorite class]." 

;

LOL....all good points....sm - JTBB

[ In Reply To ..]
If I were to be honest, I'd say I can't wait till [Obama] wins so the far right crazies will shrivel up and crawl back under their rocks.

I would say I'm tolerant, but that would be a lie when it comes to the extremism of the [republican] party. I have absolutely no tolerance for folks who ignore facts, refuse to debate issues, and have no tolerance themselves. Forgive and forget? Probably not. After what pubs in congress have done to hinder this country with, of course, the support of their "base," I'd rather just watch their party die out.

Wow...not the OP...but I think you - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
totally missed the whole point. I think the point was that no matter what side you are on, neither party has the answer and we blindly follow one party while abusing the other party for doing the same thing our party does. The OP is totally right. It is a shame we have become this way. There is NO bipartisanship in either party...no matter how many times both parties claim they have tried to reach across the aisle. Your reply to the OP just proves that you want nothing to do with bipartinship unless the right wing nut jobs decide to change their opinions to yours. By your post, you obviously want NO compromise with conservatives because they are all crazy and should just go away and let liberals rule the world.

If I knew an independent could win the election, I would vote for that independent. However, too many people (and it is blatantly obvious by the posters on this board) refuse to look outside of the 2 parties.

I didn't miss the point....sm - JTBB

[ In Reply To ..]
I just ignored the misrepresentations made in the OP.
And in doing so you DID miss the point - nm
[ In Reply To ..]
.
Yes, conditionally. Some things we've done have - structurally encouraged extremism,
[ In Reply To ..]
such as allowing gerrymandering. All-anything districts have made it much easier for impassioned extremists to use them to send radical representatives to congress.

There are so many working the wrong direction. Billionaires cynically buying reps into power for the purpose of keeping us divided and helpless. Bad economies always make people fearful and mean. And on and on.

So IF we clean up our national act in a number of ways that we know we are supposed to--uncorrupt the election system, pay our bills, commit to educating our kids properly, etc.--and start being once again the pretty darned great and admirable country we know we can be, nice things will happen and we will be a much nicer people to each other again too. We need to choose wise, principled leaders to make it happen, though.

Yeah, I've often wanted a legitimate third party - Fanatical Hypocrite

[ In Reply To ..]
Unfortunately, I have a hard time figuring out what that third party should be. Because for instance, I want a third party that represents my beliefs better than the other two parties. The problem with this is that my beliefs are radical enough that to be properly represented without having to compromise at least as much as with the main two parties, I would have to be the candidate and the party would basically end up being me and a handful of other like-minded fools.

That's basically the problem with all the third parties. You can get a few thousand people to vote for anything, but even a few million doesn't go very far any more. Look at the socialist party or the neo-Nazi party or that weird UFO abduction party whose name I forget. They are extremely likely to be doomed to never gaining mainstream acceptance (good news for the rest of us).

Good thing I'm very used to being disappointed at the polls.
I would like to see NO parties. (nm) - SK1
[ In Reply To ..]
.

She didn't miss the point. she is talking about - the EXTREMISM S/M

[ In Reply To ..]
that has taken over the conservative party since 2010. The moderate conservative republican party has been hijacked and unfortunately have not figured out yet how to get their party back. If we were dealing with moderate, intelligent conservatives, then yes I would agree with your post(going back several elections) but not now. Anyone who supports these extreme idealogues needs to come into this century. Akin is a good example of why democrats could not possibly work together and compromise. Compromise with what exactly? There is no middle ground with these people because they are not logical or intelligent. I know exactly what she is referring to and she did not miss the point when dealing with the reality of what is going on now.

At least you were honest - Fanatical Hypocrite

[ In Reply To ..]
I'm still not giving up on these peace talks, but I get your point. It is hard to reach across the aisle when you think the other side are being reckless.

Also, it's not like I can argue that the Republicans aren't stalling our government with this whole "say no to everything" position they've taken. The Dems would have liked to do that during Bush, but failed because - as anyone who has cheered for the Dems at any time knows - it's like herding cats to get things done.

Luckily, time changes everything eventually. There's still a chance both parties will grow up one day.

JTBB.... - SK1

[ In Reply To ..]
I can respect that you're a liberal, but you're so convinced of your "rightness" that you don't see how extreme the left wing has become. Today's Democratic party sure isn't JFK's Democratic party. No one will convince you of it until you choose to step back and see it objectively, but BOTH parties have become polarized (I think in reaction to each other).

Don't tell me that it's all the right's fault. It's not. The Republicans contribute equally, but it's simply wishful thinking to think that it's a unilateral problem.

In my entire life (and that's pretty considerable) I've never seen such a charged, ugly political atmosphere. All you have to do is look at some of the posts here to know how radicalized people of both sides have become. And the OP is right.... After the election we still all have to live together.

I think what you're missing here...sm - JTBB

[ In Reply To ..]
is that the democratic party has become what I would consider more of a mainstream party. Because the pub party has gone so far to the right, it has allowed dems to take a lot of ground. That's why you don't see Romney even commenting on things like the war in Afgan. What's left to say? He has previously touted the idea of no timeline, but he can't say that because it would be absolutely toxic. He can't really say he would be stronger when it comes to defense without being willing to go to the extreme of starting another war, which would again be toxic as folks are tired of war. He likes to talk like he would be more forceful with Iran, but in reality he has the same plan as Obama. This has happened with several things.

So what has happened is that the pub party has painted themselves into a corner and have no room anymore for what would be considered moderate republicans(the ones you used to be able to deal with, but now have no power). With that in mind, when folks talk about compromising with the pub party now, what is really being talked about is compromising with the far right, and that's not feasible.

What is feasible though is compromise within the dem party now. I am probably what a lot of folks would consider far left. I am making a compromise by voting for Obama. I hate the way drones are used, the fact that we are still in Afgan, as well as the fact that he seems intent on putting God in everything (all things that would previously be normal pub stances). However, there are also things I like...his stance on women, gays, healthcare (even though that could be better),attention to the middle class, etc.

So, you see, there is compromise where possible. But exactly how do you compromise with a party that tries to take away voting rights, takes away women's rights, wants religion to be the centerpiece of govt, and wants to start wars whenever and wherever possible (neocons)? I don't compromise with folks who want to roll back the clock so we can return to the darker times in our history. To do so would be to hinder the progression of our society.

Ron Paul supporter? - Just a guess.

[ In Reply To ..]
;)

Very close guess - Fanatical Hypocrite

[ In Reply To ..]
I wouldn't vote for Ron Paul, but he's one of my favorite candidates because of his repeated bouts of honesty. So strange for a political candidate. If Ron Paul plans to blow up the moon, he'll tell you. You don't have to find out after he's elected for his second term, which is usually the only time you learn anything about the guy you voted for.

Interesting. I have Ron Paul tagged as one of those who - hides a lot of what he is really about, but

[ In Reply To ..]
I've never really paid a lot of attention to him. I've just assumed there'll be more behind his benign presentation just based on the seepings of bigotry around the edges of his organization and long history with the John Birch Society, but never from his appearances in front of a camera.

That's not much of a case for significant hidden ideology, but in my experience people who use that smiley-face-up-front mode of operation coupled with indications of a far less pleasant side always do have other ideas that aren't for mass dissemination.

Lyndon LaRouche comes to mind because he was one I admired long ago on first view. That was VERY short-lived because, even in the pre-web days his "seep" was extensive, but the positions he took on TV back then were very high-minded (if you're a leftie). If he was actually what he said he was, I might even be a Rouchie today. Instead, in the 1980s I stood outside a supermarket, where their volunteers had a table set up, telling people what the harmless petition to put something on the California ballot was really meant to accomplish.

Thank you for this. - Trigger Happy

[ In Reply To ..]
You really nailed both political parties and their followers. I would love nothing more than to have an independent or 3rd party so we could literally tell both republicans and democrats to kiss our butts. The sad truth to this though is that the only thing a 3rd party would do would be to take away votes from a republican candidate and allowing for a democrat to win every single time. An example of this would be George H.W. Bush, Bill Clinton and Ross Perot. The only thing Ross Perot did was take votes away from George H.W. Bush and allow Bill Clinton to win the election.

My main focus is to keep Obama from getting another term. IMO, he has failed at his job miserably. I truly believe our country will go bust if he gets another term. If I vote for an independent, I'm helping Obama and I just can't do that.

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