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Been wondering about burial at sea

Posted: May 2, 2011

I have been reading at different websites about this burial at sea. Also, was OBL a muslim?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/02/osama-bin-laden-sea-burial-muslim-scholars_n_856315.html

;

Sounds fishy to me too - Anon

[ In Reply To ..]
Wonder why Obama didn't mention this in his speech? It wasn't announced until hours later. Something is being covered up, because it isn't logical to dump the body in a place it can't be retrieved. Why hide the body? Whose body was it?

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand this - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
You know that whenever there is a funeral in that region of the world, and most other places, as well (many times these are US haters--and not ALL the people are haters), there will be mass demonstrations with the funeral processions. These demonstrations become big propaganda opportunities, which then "the West" gets all inflamed about and starts burning Korans, and then innocent people are killed, and then on and on and on. The best thing was to be rid of the body to take away that focal point. Try thinking.

That's ridiculous. Obviously they would not - hold a state funeral.

[ In Reply To ..]
They could have announced he would be buried at "some undisclosed location." That is a favorite of the government. However, that involves a lot more people seeing the body.

Why don't YOU try thinking?? You WOULD be thinking if this was the BUSH admin. Of course, Bush admin took pictures of Saddam and of his sons when they were killed and they were released immediately. Obama admin took pictures, are now "debating" on release, and dumped the body in the ocean. The only pictures they have released so far is the one where they are supposedly watching it go down...where the only military person in the room is doing something on his laptop and not watching. COME ON.

Here we go again with the transparency thing....

Absent from this comment is any awareness of - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
the need to demonstrate a certain degree of sensitivity toward the Moslem world (1.6 billion and counting) from whom the West seeks to enlist cooperation in the war on terror, an essential component of the long-term feasibility and success of such an undertaking. It is not about honoring Bin Laden. A recognition of and respect for the SANCTITY of burial rituals of this culture would be prudent, like it or not. Ridiculing, criticizing and ignoring these practices is most definitely NOT.

This was totally off the radar when the Bush administration opted to embalm, store (for one whole week), photograph and display the bodies of Saddam and his sons for the sake of satisfying this macabre need to pander to the delusions and paranoia of conspiracy theorists and naysayers and squeezing out their last drop of political capitol. The mandate to bury within 24 hours under Moslem funeral practices is NOT negotiable. They do NOT embalm corpses. With few exceptions, corpses are NOT photographed and publicly displayed, and on the occasions where they are, it is Moslems, not Christian Westerners, who are engaging in this behavior. Normally Moslem funerals are intensely private rituals reserved for close family, as are the staged grieving practices that follow burial.

I think we can all agree that this is no normal circumstance. Your suggestion that the US go the undislosed location route is the least workable. This would satisfy no one on either side of the equation. Conspiracy theorists would have a field day and Moslems would still be outraged. The debate over whether or not to show the photographs is perfectly understandable as well, unless of course the goal is to throw gasoline on the fires of fundamentalist outrage already set by this incident. Again, it is difficult to understand the macabre imperative to view the blood, guts and gore of the aftermath. The fact that some Americans mistrust the military, administrative and government players to such a degree that they reject the existing photographic and scientific DNA evidence and opt for gruesome is a sad commentary on our own culture. Lets face it. The most determined among them would only cry foul and accuse them of using doctored photos.

My question would be who on earth would like to see their relatives buried next to Osama? Which place would opt for the notoriety of being the site of his grave? How could the US have located such a place in advance of the operation to accommodate the 24-hour time frame without blowing their cover? Why give those who will undoubtedly make a martyr of his memory a physical, visual, tactile and spiritual symbol to facilitate that endeavor? And finally, why put the interests of delusional paranoid conspiracy theorists above those 1.6 billion? Which scenario better serves long-term security interests of the war on terror?

This is not about blogosphere buzz words (in this case, the transparency red herring) aimed at discrediting a sitting president. It is not about political capitol that may or may not be gained in advance of next years election. This is an extremely volitile situation that I believe the administration could have handled better. I too would like proof, both of the identity of the corpse AND the claim that Moslem burial practices were honored. At least they wrapped the body in white cloth, but whether or not the other obligatory prayer rituals were observed by a Moslem cleric is anybodys guess, though it seems highly unlikely.

All things considered, it would appear that this administration has demonstrated at least a vague awareness of these practices and did not follow the Bush administration lead of totally ignoring these important considerations. I have read some reactions from moderate Muslim clerics who have expressed liberal interpretations of Moslem law that account for the unusual specific circumstances that surround this issue, an encouraging sign. The relentless drumbeat of the fringers call to arms, not so much.

In a word....bull. But thanks for your - hard work posting all

[ In Reply To ..]
this. What is the flavor of the day? You keep drinking the kool-aid, I will keep NOT taking everything this admin does at face value. Then we'll BOTH be happy. :-)

Evidently - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
her post struck a nerve or you would not have felt compelled to spit out such a useless comment. The logic, reasoning, sensibility and fund of knowledge probably left you speechless. Perhaps the degradation of your native tongue from English as a first language to wingnut blogspeak explains your inability to do more than hurl yet another tired kool-aid insult in response to the excellent points she raised.

Elitist bull......but still bull. - You get the prize

[ In Reply To ..]
for stinkiest load of liberal condescension today. Yay for you!! ;-)

Wow. Swapping out the kool-aid insult for the elitist - and condescending big guns!

[ In Reply To ..]
Impressive. Do you have any originals in your bag of slams or are carbon copies the best you can do?

Where were you when tea partiers were - being insulted?

[ In Reply To ..]
oh, nevermind...you were doing the insulting, I feel sure.

You folks have awful thin skins. An insult is an insult whether it is kool-aid or elitist condescending crap. You like the elitist condescending crap, I prefer the simple truth...if I were to use your condescending manner, instead of calling you a kool-aid drinker, might say this:

The absence of logic, reasoning, sensibility and fund of knowledge have left you without recourse rather than to blindly follow the group with whom you are associated. Perhaps if you would seek sources of information other than left wingnut blogspeak rhetoric, your inability to do more than hurl yet another tired condescending insult rathter than confront an issue directly could be abated.

However, I prefer the Reader's Digest condensed version - you're a kool-aid drinker and happy to be one.

Get over yourself, k? lol ;-)

I will not use the word Bull, but I have to say..... - passing through

[ In Reply To ..]
All formal considerations and decency practices should not be given a second though. Consideration? Sensitivity? Obligatory prayer rituals? Insult to be buried at sea? Demonstrate sensitivity to Muslim practices. Do you remember who we are talking about? It is not like we are the savages here!!

I can't remember that final count of dead Americans on 9/11. I can't remember the last count of dead Americans in this war on terror, and who was it created by? What is that count of American soldiers putting their lives on the line for US right now? And you think we should be considerate, obligatory, and sensitive? We did not even have graves for those Americans killed on 9/11 because they were incinerated!!! No prayers over their bodies or our own ritual customs!! I am glad he is fish food.

There should be no opportunity for any kind of shrine for this dearly departed. Under different circumstances I would agree with your thoughts, but this man deserves no better at all than what he got. Truth be told, many of them would probably agree. I do not think that this "disrespectful burial" is what is going to cause retaliation, and considering the absolute H@ll he has put the world through, all bets are off for him and whatever religion he comes from or beliefs they may have. USA! USA! USA!

You must have missed one of the first major points - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
This is not about honoring Bin Laden. It is about maintaining a relationship with the Moslem world, the necessity of enlisting their involvement and cooperation in the war on terror and moving forward in that endeavor. I cannot think of a more provocative act that holds the potential of offending massive numbers of Moslems across the globe than to try to blindly justify blatent disregard for the sanctity of their religious burial practices as described in the previous post. At least Obama has demonstrated that he has some sort of clue in this regard.

When counting the dead in the towers, the dead in the war on terror, and the dead soldiers on battlefields across the Middle East, do you only include those who are American? Christians? You do realize that Moslem men and women, ranging from the ages of unborn 7 months gestation to age 60, died in the attack, right? Some were native born, others naturalized, still others of legal residence. Did you count them too? How about Moslem members of the Coalition of the Willing? Did they count? Moslem soldiers in Iraq, the country we invaded despite the fact that none of the highjackers were from there, we had no intel on AQ in Iraq, WMDs, etc, etc. Bet they dont count, huh? What about Iraqi civilians, elders, women, children? Do they count? Yes or no? Afghani civilians? Do those Moslems count?

No one expects an American patriot citizen to try to see things from those different perspectives, but consider the fact that we just invaded yet ANOTHER sovereign Middle Eastern country in the Moslem world and carried out a military operation without prior notice to that country's government, which resulted in an assassination with a bit of collateral damage here and there. Fundamental and moderate Moslems will view those events through different lenses when assessing the right or wrong of it all, but they will all see desecration of a Moslem corpse as an extremely offensive act. While it may be acceptable that patriotic American citizens remain unaware of these issues, it is quite another story when it comes to our leaders, their advisors, the military and any and all governments involved in the war on terror.

For these reasons, I think that your opening sentence is short-sighted, inflammatory and counterproductive. Considering how many American soldiers, tourists and expatriots are currently in the Middle East, it would seem to me that their safety and security could potentially be considerably compromised by these immediate circumstances, much moreso by promoting such senseless disregard toward the religious and cultural burial practices. For me, that would be a neice who is in the military, and a sister and nephew who have been living in a Moslem country for more than a decade.

Once again, this is not about honoring a terrorist leader. Not by a long shot.

We have religious and cultural beliefs as well. - JMO

[ In Reply To ..]
Were our beliefs honored? No. We have a book that contains many American religious beliefs and it says "an eye for an eye" Quite fitting here. I do realize there should be respect for all religous beliefs in every country; however, I say this is an exception and, no, should not be a consideration in what happened on 5/1. If this act of killing a global murderer to such proportions as he did is going to put innocent people in any further danger by more just like him, so be it. They are not safe in the first place no matter where they are or who they are. I wholeheartedly believe this called for American justice regardless, which also benefits the rest of the world. This justice can not be held hostage for the reasons you state. I believe we should be more concerned in supporting the many people who are rising up against these dictators and support them in their efforts rather than our government leaders worrying about offending terrorists' feelings. Yes, it is sad it came to this but like I said, we are not the savages that some will try to make us out to be. I believe this is a huge step toward world democracy if it is ever going to happen, which is what it appears that many Muslims wish for. And you are worried about offending their leaders and our relations with them. Again, I say we were right in demonstrating that the likes of bin Laden will not be tolerated by us NO MATTER WHAT! I think many many people all over the world would agree, Muslim or not, and I hope this shows the world just that. Yes, it could cause danger to many lives but it always has throughout history and we can not allow that to make us tolerable.

sm and JMO - great debate because both are right even though different. - NM

[ In Reply To ..]
X

I would have to oppose 2 points,sm - short m

[ In Reply To ..]
This was not a "senseless disregard of religous and cultural practice," no matter how one can make it appear, or a "extremely offensive act," as you state. Some Muslims may see it that way and some may see it as justifiable or a necessary evil. All things considered, I say this was unfortunate but necessary and for the benefit of ALL PEOPLE. They all count. Yes, there may be consequences and lives may be in danger, but they already were. I would like to think that is why we were there in the first place. Violence breeds violence, always. Diplomacy and respect for anyone's religious belief was out the window a long time ago. Dead or alive pretty much sums it up. It is true, we can not withhold justice for fear of retaliation. I believe what happened 5/1 was actually the safest strategy for all concerned, then and now. I do pray for the safety of all innocent people, soldiers and civilians, Christians and Muslims, whose lives are at stake. They all count. I hope this demonstrated to the world that we have our beliefs too, and mass murder on American soil will not be tolerated no matter what religion the people were or where they came from, and no matter what we have to do or who we have to offend to put a stop to it.

Try thinking yourself - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
You could have stated what you wanted to say without insulting a poster. Maybe you should be the one to try thinking. What you have said is only your opinion, not a fact. What is a fact is it is an insult for Muslim's to be buried at see.

What's that saying - Think before you speak (in this case write).

Someone said it was so it would not be - turned into a pilgrimage

[ In Reply To ..]
site. It just seems strange. Why not bury him "at some undisclosed location" like the government is fond of doing. Burial at sea seems reallly strange. Of course, doing so limits the number of people who would see the body.

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