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Another LIE About Health Reform!

Posted: Mar 15, 2010

LIE: "There is no federal funding for abortions in the bill."

Obama and Pelosi have insisted that there is no federal funding of abortions in the bill:

http://www.healthcarebs.com/2010/03/08/video-pelosi-obama-lie-about-abortion-funding-in-senate-reform-bill/

But Rep. Stupak says otherwise:

"Stupak notes that his negotiations with House Democratic leaders in recent days have been revealing. “I really believe that the Democratic leadership is simply unwilling to change its stance,” he says. “Their position says that women, especially those without means available, should have their abortions covered.” The arguments they have made to him in recent deliberations, he adds, “are a pretty sad commentary on the state of the Democratic party.

What are Democratic leaders saying? “If you pass the Stupak amendment, more children will be born, and therefore it will cost us millions more. That’s one of the arguments I’ve been hearing,” Stupak says. “Money is their hang-up. Is this how we now value life in America? If money is the issue — come on, we can find room in the budget. This is life we’re talking about.”

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MzU0MDYxMWEyOTdiNGU1OGU3ZjYzYmE3Y2ZlZDQ5NTY=

Anyone who has actually READ the bill (all five of them) or the pertinent portions of it (all 12 of us) KNOW that there is federal funding of abortions in the bill! In addition, Pelosi has publicly stated that funding of contraception is important to "keep the numbers down," which dovetails with the attitude described by Stupak. Obviously Dims view abortion as "contraception after the fact."

Stupak has principles and integrity and is under INCREDIBLE pressure to buckle, and he has earned my respect. Pelosi and Oblahblah, OTOH, have done nothing but LIE!

;

Abortion, like any other procedure, should be covered! - nm

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.

coverage - cj

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only if it is medically necessary. otherwise, it should be treated as any other elective procedure that is not covered.

I agree with cj.nm - MN

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nm

Should they continue to cover meds like Viagra - and Cialis then?

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nm

Those are medications, not procedures.... - Anon

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And they don't kill babies in the womb, either.

Sorry, no comparison.

So the morning after pill is okay? - anotheranon

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nm

and the abortion pill too - me

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can't have it both ways.

Not all of us agree that abortion involves - "killing a baby" so that

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does not fly for all of us. You may not like it, but it is the truth, and it is legal.

So then, what does it involve??? - BillieRubin

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Killing a kitten, maybe? Strangely enough, the kitten would probably get more compassion.

May not fly... - bingo

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and it may be legal but in God's eyes you are killing a human being. If you're not killing human life, why does it need to die at all? Maybe you could digest "it" somehow or maybe "it" would just eventually dissolve in your system if you left it alone. Oh... but with those of us who do know the truth, we realize that, if left alone, it would grow to become HUMAN. Fancy that. ;)

Not all laws are good laws meant to protect us. Legal killing is one of those.

I don't agree when the abortion is done in the - first trimester. nm

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nm

Wow... - bingo

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So you must believe that it's not really a human until the second or third trimester. Some people's concepts just never cease to amaze me.

Then you are easily amazed. Many think the - same way. It is not a viable

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human being at this point, IMO. I will be sticking to this opinion, BTW. I would not want an abortion myself, but I would fight for the right of other women to choose differently, unlike someone who wouild fight to force my choices down the throat of everyone else. Agree to disagree. I have to go to work.

It's not a choice...it's a baby... - bingo

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some choices are wrong and I would never support wrong choices. Smoking, drugs, drinking, prostitution, etc. are all choices but they are not choices I would support. The same goes for abortion. A female the choice to have sex and/or to use birth control and even get yourself sterilized. The baby has no choice. It gets to be born into this world or not. Some of us get the chance to make "choices" in life and some of us don't. There's nothing fair or "right" about that. And no need to rant on about rape and incest. Those instances are rare and, even then, there is always adoption. No one has the right to take another human life, not even when the government tells us we can. Legal does not equal right.

It is a personal choice whether to have that baby - end of story

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nm

Personal choices are not always right...end of story - bingo

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nm

You know what-you apparently have a major case - of last-word-itis and I have

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some things to do. I will never think it is okay to force any woman to do something she does not want to do to her own body. It is no one else's business, including mine or yours. I am through with this discussion.

Having a strong belief...sm - bingo

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does not mean I have to have the last word. It appeared you wanted to have the last word. I'm not changing my mind ever, regardless of who "gets the last word." The woman isn't doing something to her "own" body. She's doing it to a body that grows inside of her. She's not cutting off her arm or leg or nose. She's killing another body. Big difference. ;)

not the end of story at all - may not be right but it is still mine to make

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Not yours, his, theirs, or its.

Actually, it is the choice to have the baby, or end the baby's - life - END OF STORY.nm

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nm

What were you saying about having the last word? LOL - bingo

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My...that kind of choice must make some women feel pretty powerful. To end the life of an innocent... or not. Must make some women feel pretty good to be able to wield that kind of power over an innocent. All I have to say is I would hate to be in their shoes come judgement day if they haven't repented. End of my story... We all have different ones. ;)

That was not me. It was someone who agreed - with me.

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nm

Actually, it is MY choice to have the baby or end its life - next story please

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nm

What a shame - see message

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Maybe you should have gone to another story or not posted this at all. I find it appalling that you can just say "have a baby or end its life."

We all have different views on the subject of abortion. Sometimes they are better left unsaid.

so an opinion that differs from yours or that you find appalling - should not be expressed?

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I suppose you also believe in that Pollyanna mantra "if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all."

Only happy words and thoughts?

People are going to disagree with you and people are going to say things that offend and appall you. Get over it, accept it, or go lock yourself away from the real world.

sm... - bingo

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I would think that those who have no concern or regard for human life are also those who most likely would pull the heads off baby birds for sport. ;)

Since when... - bingo

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did murder become a procedure? Snuffing out someone's life is murder whether in the womb or in the nursing home or anywhere in between. I don't want to help pay for that. I have a conscience.

repubs and their fervent desire - Hologram

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to have minimal government involvement in their lives EXCEPT when they notice OTHERS doing things they personally do not believe in.

I would think... - bingo

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that repubs, dims, liberals, conservatives, males, females, presidents governors, senators, or anyone with a conscience would want to get involved when it concerns a "life." Remember.... "Right to LIFE, liberty and happiness." Anyone with a conscience should have a "personal" belief that killing is wrong whether the government is involved or not. We all deserve a right to live....government or no government.

No government to affect personal lives or choices - as long as they agree with

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your personal lives or choices. Otherwise, all bets are off. The Republican way.

Some people need to develop a "conscience" - about people who are walking

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around our country right now-not only "potential people". Why is abortion such an issue for you folks when you clearly don't care about the people out there losing homes, not able to afford food, meds or clothes. The folks that are losing these things because they did not have decent health care insurance or because they lost their money due to lack of regulations on Wall Street? Seems to me that some of you have a rather selective conscience.

You have no idea.... - bingo

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What should we do about the people losing their homes, not able to afford food and clothes? Just because a person can't help everyone on the planet doesn't mean they don't care. I've been in all those situations before and lived over it and I'm not pointing fingers at anyone. Those things happen in life. Health care insurance... I don't have any as we speak and I'm not concerned because I do the best I can to take care of myself and stay off the meds which certainly keeps me healthier. I would prefer to have insurance that covers accidents, something I can't avoid. I can manage my health pretty good. Health insurance has nothing to do with staying healthy. In fact, the more insurance you have, the more you're in to see the doctor and the more surgeries and meds you need. I'll pass....thanks. Unless the government forces me to buy something I don't need and will seldom use. As for abortion...I think those babies who have to die should have a chance to go without food and clothes and meds. It didn't hurt me any and I thank God my mother made the right choice, even with the turmoil I've experienced. That argument doesn't fly at all.

Boy, must be nice to live in your nice, cozy, - delusional world.

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Good luck with that.

It is pretty cozy actually... - bingo

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Good luck with those meds and insurance. I know people who are covered to the hilt and have a bucket full of meds and are still sick and dying. ;) Now who's delusional??

So, in the event you get a devastating illness - are you going to just

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go ahead and stop potentially life-saving treatment as soon as your money runs out? You won't be accepting any help from the taxpayers because you choose not to be covered I hope.

Not worried... - bingo

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about devastating illness. If you are referring to cancer and other illnesses that are "money makers" for the "health care" system, I don't want "treatments" as most of the time they are more devastating than the disease. Like I said before, I work hard to keep myself healthy and it's been working for many years, while most family members are covered with the best insurance and take a pint of pills a day and they are still sick and dying. I just don't need that kind of health care, thank you very much. You're telling me I have to be concerned when I'm not. No...keep your money. I don't need or want it. I haven't needed it for many, many years but thanks again for the offer. ;)

You'll be there with your hand out if faced with - it, just like all the other

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big talking chance-takers. You're not fooling anyone. It's a game of chance you are playing, luck. You may be taking measures to try and take care of yourself, but you could need a bypass tomorrow. You could be in an accident tomorrow that would leave you a burden to your family and society. You are just taking chances that you don't need to with potentially relying on taxpayers the rest of your life. You truly aren't fooling anyone.

LOL... - bingo

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A bypass is the last thing I'll need or would even agree to. I could be in an accident. If you read my last post, I said I ONLY need insurance for an accident that is not my fault and I can't avoid but that I can manage my health quite well. I pay taxes too by the way and I feel that I am helping more people with the taxes I pay than I am helping myself because I choose to take care of my health instead of pay out the nose for insurance that I never use. Most people "expect" to get sick because of their health habits....I don't. The potential risk goes away when you make a concerted effort at taking care of your health. Most don't do this and rely on doctors, pills and surgey to "cure" them when good habits is all it takes. If anyone is being "fooled," it's those who believe their health lies in the hands of doctors, insurance companies and pharmacists. I know better. ;)

Like I said-delusional! - nm

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nm

Okay, I admit I made an incorrect - statement

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You aren't fooling anyone, that is, except yourself.

Why do I need to fool myself?? - bingo

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I can see from experience what is true and what isn't. Keep your money...you'll need it for that next surgery or, God forbid, you run out of meds. ;)

You are fooling yourself - into believing

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your health is in your hands. It is, but only to a point. Do you think you are the ONLY person in the world taking care of yourself and doing all the right things? You've just been lucky up to now. I don't know how old you are, but just because you haven't been seriously ill yet does not mean you won't ever! Get your head out of the sand. You're almost comical! Not to mention, what is your message to all those other people who do everything in their power to stay healthy and live right, but still come down with a serious, life-threatening disease? You think you're somehow better or above them?

You're more than fooling yourself; you're delusional. We should all feel sorry for you, as you're never going to see the light till it's too late.

No, I'm not "better" than anyone... - bingo

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but it seems that I am more willing to give up things that are unhealthy and, thus far, it has worked for me and I think it will continue to work. Life-threatening illnesses are usually brought on by our own bad habits. You are just like everyone else I know. You want to believe that you had nothing at all to do with the current status of your health and I find that to be comical! Eveyone tells me I am "lucky" and that I have good genes. Right....I am the only one of 7 siblings (all from the same parents by the way) without arthritis, heart disease, diabetes and cancer. I am the middle sibling, age 57. Even my 3 younger siblings have health problems. They ALL refuse to give up anything. Most people don't do everything in their power to stay healthy. And...everyone has their own "ideas" about what they believe is healthy. For example, my siblings believe they can't live without meat and dairy as they "believe" these to be "health" foods...yet, they are the ones who are suffering from ill health. You tell me oh wise Guru... ;) Just keep feeling sorry for me all you want. What I'm doing appears to have been working for the past 20 years. And I intend to keep it up, regardless of the sick naysayers such as yourself. LOL

You are killing me! - First of all,

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"I am more willing to give up things that are unhealthy..." More willing than who? People you know?! That's funny, and a very general, sweeping assumption, to boot. Your siblings aren't a valid representation of anything but your own family tree. And then you go on to assume what MY health is like?!? How do you know I'm not in the same "perfect" health you are in, or better even? Those two statements just discredited any and all arguements you may have had on the subject, not that they were valid anyway. You see, there's a little thing called compassion for others, and that enables me, a healthy, insurance-having citizen, to still have concern for those who aren't and don't, instead of your stance of "if I don't need it nobody does! Live like I do, and enjoy lifelong health!"

And your little "Guru" remark? Sounds like you need to look in the mirror. I'm not the one claiming to have all the answers to the world's ills, that would be you!

You really should quit talking while you think you're ahead...you're showing more and more of your true colors with every post you make!

First of all... - bingo

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My assumption is based on the fact that it seems to be killing your soul that I choose not to carry insurance and you choose to argue with me about the fact that health can't be "controlled" without insurance, doctors, etc. I would be willing to bet you are on meds and see a doctor regularly for something. Otherwise this would not be such an issue with you. No, I can't prove it-and don't care to one way or the other- but you are the one who feels the "need" for insurance. Insurance should be considered a luxury and not a necessity, unless of course you choose to take risks with your health--which most people do as most feel the need for insurance. Only those who "need" insurance for their meds and doctor's visits ever argue this point with me. Like I said and I repeat. Insurance is nice if one has an accident--such as getting shot, stabbed, run over, etc. and it should be made available for that purpose and for those who feel they "need" it because they wish to have no control over their own health. I don't need it and shouldn't be forced to buy something I won't use. You're killing me...but not literally. Now go take your meds. ;)

Well, since - your argument

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is quickly deteriorating intellectually (didn't think it was possible to degenerate any further, but alas...), I guess I'll leave you to stew in your own juices.

You will obviously never grasp the idea that I, or anyone, could be arguing something that, *GASP*, isn't even affecting me at all, but just on the basis of concern for others. Therein lies the crux of your problem, and your own suffering soul. Your ignorance is mind-boggling, to say the least. I hope you don't consider yourself a Christian or a religious person, because then you'll be a hypocrite, too. And isn't judging others a really big no-no?

Plus, I also take it, based on your no-insurance-needed stance, that you don't believe in well-baby care (that's right, you only care that they be born, ha!), immunizations, hospital births, circumcision, pain meds during birth, c-sections, stitching of the vagina afterwards, newborn care (incubators?), etc., etc., etc. The list could go on and on. Those aren't "accidents," and unless you believe only rich people should have babies, then how do you reconcile that with "only sick people need insurance?" For one who wants all babies to be born, that is pretty shallow thinking. But, then again....

Concern for others....LOL - bingo

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What could that possibly have to do with me not wanting or needing insurance? The whole world may have insurance for all I care. More power to them. And as I've said before, we all "need" insurance for certain incidents, albeit not that many. What I consider myself is my business. Apparently you wish to make that your business too and then pass judgement because you don't happen to agree with my stance on insurance. Babies can see a doctor when they need one. On a regular basis, for no particular reason is ludicrous. Immunizations cause as many problems as they profess to cure. You can have my share. Hospital births...oh my what would we ever do without the hospital to birth our babies? Now comes the--women can die having babies at home...and in the hospital as well. Circumcision is a choice (ya know kind of like killing your baby in the womb), I took no pain meds during childbirth. Some of these things are necessary while others are not. Included in the "accident" category are some of these things, but I can see you prefer to nitpick. I am referring to unecessary visits, well-child visits-visits that you take your perfectly healthy child in for, visits for runny noses, coughs, unnecessary antibiotics, visits for blood pressure checks, unnecessary tests that docs claim we should all have-mammograms, bone density, colonoscopy, etc. Insurance abuse is rampant. I am referring to those who feel that having their steak and ice cream is a necessity even if it harms their health and then they will "need" their "oh so necessary drugs." I think you understand. You just prefer to hide behind your pill bottles and nitpick. I still don't want insurance but care for life and death situations should be provided to all. Insurance be damned. ;)

You don't - need to

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It's just a shame that you don't realize it. I do hope you don't end up eating your words, but we all know it very well could happen. Good luck. You're just the kind of person none of us should have to pay for.

And you're the kind of person... - bingo

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I have been paying for for the last 20 years. ;)

Well, that's obvious - you poor thing

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:( You're just pitiful.

Not all procedures are covered... - Kendra

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if I want a boob job or a facelift, I am on my own, as I should be.

Money is most certainly the - issue

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The difference is the pubs create the need for the money and then deny the money.

What a ridiculous statement! As if the Dems haven't been in charge since 2006! - Anon

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nm

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While I agree with some things said, I totally disagree with giving all illegals a "pathway to citizenship." http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/york-mayor-bloomberg-immigration-jobs-lebron-james-11071170 But, as I delve into more and more of this information, I found this problem with the current system with those applying legally to come to this country. Read the article and please click on some of the underlined words, especially about the English couple who owned a restaurant in Main ...

May 12, 2011
President Barack Obama renewed his push for comprehensive immigration reform Tuesday, citing America's legacy as a nation of immigrants and saying that finding a solution for millions of undocumented workers is critical to the country's common future. "We define ourselves as a nation of immigrants -- a nation that welcomes those willing to embrace America's precepts," Obama said during a visit to El Paso, Texas. "It doesn't matter where you come from. What matters is that y ...

Oct 03, 2010
I keep hearing commercials from people running for office, saying that they will put a stop to "Obama-care" or being so proud that they voted against it. I just don't get it. Everything I have heard, like being covered even if you have a preexisting condition, not being dropped when you get sick, covering kids until the age of 26, no lifetime caps, etc. all sounds great and consumer friendly. Why are candidates appealing to the public to vote for them and they will fight it? Why do ...

Jun 21, 2010
http://pol.moveon.org/sfd/slate/index.html?id=21231-5238824-oyQ97mx&t=5 ...

Jun 24, 2010
Dylan Ratigan is freaking out of the changes Chris Dodd and Barney Frank are trying to make to this financial reform bill: The long-awaited showdown between banks and Sen. Blanche Lincoln over her derivatives reform section of the Wall Street bill begins Thursday. The conference committee will consider an offer made by the House to amend Senate legislation that forces banks to spin off their swaps desk and separately capitalize that operation, while also bringing the business out into the open, ...