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Smoke-free jobs

Posted: Jul 31, 2013

Hi, anyone know a factual answer on this one? I was applying for a job at our local hospital and it says "This is a tobacco-free workplace" It says they will not hire anyone who uses tobacco in any form and a post-offer physical to detect for tobacco will be conducted.

I smoke (I know it's bad, I shoudl quit, etc.) but if you use the vapor cigarettes, which have nicotine, is that considered being tobacco-free? I know they don't have tobacco in them, but when a company requires you to be "tobacco-free" does anyone know if that includes the detection of nicotine or is it strictly tobacco?

Thanks.

;

cigs - anon

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They test is for nicotine, I believe, so yes it would show up. Ask if they have an option for employees who want to quit. Being a hospital, they're bound to have some kind of tobacco cessation class or something.

Some hospitals around here will have a fit if you even smell like smoke. They assume it's you. How should you handle someone who smokes in your home - a husband, etc. It's ridiculous. Not smoking on the property is fine but policing your behavior outside of work I think is insane.

The test is for nicotine - sm

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The test is for nicotine, so I believe vapor cigarettes, patches, and gum will all come up positive.

Hospitals are banning smoking because of the cost savings in terms of property damage and trash, health insurance-healthcare costs, lost work time from smoking-related conditions like bronchitis, COPD, emphysema, and heart disease, and lost work time from smokers sneaking out to smoke. Patients consider it hypocritical for healthcare providers to preach about smoking, but allow it.

Smokers seem to like the smell of smoke, but to nonsmokers, it ranges from revolting to nauseating. Smokers literally stink. It is one of the worst odors on earth. Smokers also think it is the smoke itself that nonsmokers object to, but the stench that is on their breath and exudes from their skin and lungs is worse.

There is enough tobacco residue on smokers to trigger asthma and allergies in those sensitive to it. They continue to exhale it long after they think they don't.

Secondhand smoke is turning out to be worse than smoking itself. After California banned smoking in public places, nonsmoker deaths from sudden heart attacks dropped drastically. Secondhand smoke causes blood clotting in nonsmokers, precipitating myocardial infarctions. Literally, smokers are killing bystanders.

That is what nonsmoking hospitals are trying to avoid.

Smokers have more difficulty getting jobs now, but they had trouble before. A lot of them never realized that employers just did not process applications that smelled like cigarettes. Human resources officials would check for smoke smell, stained teeth, and stained fingers when applicants came in.

And, really, hospitals are going to exclude you no matter if you or your husband smoke. The stink and the extra healthcare expenses are the same either way.

Hopefully this is an incentive for you to quit! - horrible way to die

[ In Reply To ..]
watched my mother in law die from COPD, smoked for probably 45 years. It was excruciating to watch. Nobody should ever have to die like that. To die struggling for breath is horrific and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

Nicotine test - sm

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My husband is a pipe-smoker and had the same test for his job. They allow you to smoke, but if there is no nicotine in your system, you get a larger discount with the company. We were surprised to learn he had zero nicotine in his system, but with a pipe you don't inhale the smoke, you just kind of puff on it.

So maybe you could start puffing your cigarettes or take up pipe-smoking. ;)

smoke-free workplace - nana

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Wondering if the same hospital I used to work for and was going to apply a couple of weeks ago and saw that on their website in big bold red letters. I thought that was discrimination. That would be like saying they won't hire overweight people because it is unhealthy. Sure wish I had the money to challange that but of course I don't.

If this job posting is in Michigan, we just went to right to work state. I don't know much about it but I have heard now the employers can restrict all kinds of things and you really can't do anything about it anymore thanks to our lovely governor.

Anymore smokers are treated like lepers. It's all these insurance companies that "claim" we are unhealthy because we smoke. I know lots of people who don't smoke and call in sick more than I do. So their claims are just a way to charge us more for insurance.

you ARE unhealthy because you smoke! - you pollute the air around you

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you offend people with your odor. Worse than a leper! How can you not see it is bad for you and you need to stop! Why would you defend being a smoker?

Morbidly obese people - sm

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who choose to still eat McDonald's are extremely unhealthy as well. Many of them cannot bathe properly and their odor is also offensive. They will die of heart attack, strokes, EVEN multiple pulmonary problems. I don't even smoke, but I think it is outrageous that a company can test you for a substance that is LEGAL. I agree with no smoking at the workplace, nurses and doctors shouldn't smell like smoke, but to forbid you to smoke outside of work hours is unconstitutional.

I actually worked with a morbidly obese lady and a smoker at a prison that I worked at as a nurse. There was an emergency situation and we had to RUN quite a distance to be first responders. I'm not a smoker, but I was a little breathy, the smoker was a little breathy, but the morbidly obese nurse, who was MUCH SLOWER than us even getting to the scene, actually had to have the oxygen put on HER that I was bringing down intended for the patient.

I'm just saying, there are other health issues, self-imposed, other than smoking cigarettes. It isn't fair to discriminate against just one.

I agree with you. They are both gross - lack of self control is the issue

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nasty

lack of self control is the issue - smoker

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I find your posts to be offensive. I find your shallow opinion offensive and nasty. Wonder if they have a leper colony for people like you with a repulsive attitude. How do you like being judged? I am sure you have no flaws, look like Marily Monroe, body of a million dollar model, although I doubt they would be on this site, mind as sharp as Donald Trumps, and I am sure I can think of much more perfection, as to why you think it is okay to label anyone but I think I got my point across. So take a look in the mirror and if you don't fall in these categories, then gee I guess you are just as nasty as smokers and obese people are.

Apparently you have never had an addiction - to be so judgmental.

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Most addictions (if not all) are either triggered or related to some sort of physiologic illness in the body, be it brain chemistry or whatever. I don't think anyone "chooses" to be addicted to anything. Nobody wants to be fat and most people I know don't WANT TO BE ADDICTED to smoking.

They chose to start smoking - Now choose to STOP

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nm

A gene predisposing to obesity has been found. - L&L

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Do a little research. It is NOT lack of self control. It is usually things out of a person's control.

I don't think being obese is "usually" out of - a person's control.

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Sometimes, yes. But usually, it's simple overeating and lack of exercise. This is a computer-TV society and food is abundant, including the prepackaged foods that are easier to serve our families than cooking a meal from scratch (who has time for that these days?).

The average person watches 5 hours of TV a day, and that doesn't include time spent in front of the computer at work (probably 6-7 hours). You can't tell me that doesn't play a role in our obesity problem.

Sure, but I've cut calories to 1200/day and - L&L

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and exercised and NOT lost weight. Honestly. I look like everyone in my family going back generations...stout and hardy German farmfolk, but w/o the farm I'm never going to be stick thin.

Kids have the whole video/junk food problem; not those of us in our 60s now with very bad knees from all that running in our 20s, 30s, 40s, and 50s.

I used to say that same thing........ - sm

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When I was a size 20!!!! My whole family is and always have been fat, I made every excuse in the book, but the point was, my Super Sized Big Mac meals weren't anything genetic. When I did finally decide to change my life 9 years ago, I BROKE MY ADDICTION and it had NOTHING to do with genetics. I am now a size 2. I am not able to eat and enjoy everything that I would like, but hey, I love my body so it's worth it.

But if somebody is morbidly obese - Sammy

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They do not affect my health the way that smokers do.

yep, overeating is a self contained vice - smoking is not

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x

They dont effect YOUR health, but they do - effect insurance cost because...

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morbidly obese people are more likely to have diabetes, high blood pressure, heart problems and on and on. Please don't stone me because I am about 30 pounds overweight myself and did not realize that I too and considered morbidly obese. You don't have to be 300 pounds to be considered morbidly obese. It all depends on your height and BMI.

So while morbidly obese people may not have an effect on you personally, they still get discriminated against for insurance purposes because its considered a health risk.

I pollute the air around me!!!! I stink too!!! - smoker

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-Car exhaustion - polluting air. Did they stop making cars? NO.

-Hair dye supposedly causes cancer. Did you stop using hair dye? Probably not. That is why they are still in business.

-Red meat causes so many diseases its -not funny including cardiac disease, etc. Have they stopped killing cows yet? NO. You can still buy red meat so people who know it is unhealthy but still eat it.

-Alcohol. Alcohol kills people and I am sure we all have heard of all the accidents a drunk driver has caused killing people. What about that. Why hasn't everyone gone after the alcohol makers.

Why aren't employers refusing to hire an alcoholic? People dye and suffer from alcoholism all the time. I am sure that drives up insurance rates also. I have personally watched a few people dye of alcoholism and that is a very, very slow and painful death. Alcohol affects not just the alcoholic but the people around them but they still get hired.

-Obesity. Do we really need to speak about obesity and the health issues it can and does cause to your body.

I will defend being a smoker or a drinker or a pot head or overeater, etc. I defend the right to choose.

All of the things I listed above have been proven to be "bad for you and need to be stopped" but I don't see everyone jumping down throats over it.

So if my "smell" offends you then by all means don't be around me.

I am 55 years old and I am very healthy. I exercise every day, have a BMI of 20.3%, try to eat healthy but I smoke. So I I guess I am doomed and will dye tomorrow.

Maybe I find obese people offensive. Does that give me the right to insult them so they conform to my standards. No it doesn't. Maybe I consider them lazy or have no self respect. I choose not to judge anyone for any reason that is none of my business. I want the same respect.

I will quit smoking when and if I am ready to do just that and until then I guess I will have to sleep with the lepers. I am sure they are much better company anyway!

I agree completely! - People have rights

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People are quick to jump on someone else's bad habit but they're slow to see their own. I can see the hospital's right to say they are smoke-free, but I don't see where they can dictate what people do on their own time and in their own homes. It's a slippery slope; soon it will be they won't hire anyone who they deem overweight (or fire those who gain weight later), then perhaps it will be the non-vegetarian, then people who dye their hair, then perhaps those with a family history of cancer. Where does it stop?

People do have rights - xxx

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One of the most important is the right not to have your air space polluted by someone with no willpower to overcome their addiction.

The point is.......... - sm

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Companies who say smokers cannot smoke AT THEIR OWN HOME along with not being able to smoke at work. I agree, smoking should not take place at work, but at home...nobody should have the right to tell anyone that. It CANNOT be a "pollution" issue, if it is not taking place at work, hence the similarity in saying why not refuse to hire a morbidly obese person.

You seem to be unaware of the reality - sm

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You see that as your right to smoke a cigarette, and see no further consequence of this than if you ate a carrot stick.

There is more to it. You continue to stink and exude tar long after you smoke. You have tar and ash all over you, which comes off on walls and furniture. You are the cause of astonishing insurance and healthcare expenditures.

And really, you are not confining yoursef to smoking in your home. You are smoking on the sidewalk and in the parking lot, giving bad example to your employer's customers. You are sneaking out fire doors, sneaking into utility areas, sneaking into unoccupied areas, sneaking into closets and in between floor of buildings, and you snatch a smoke every time you walk between buildings.

You not only believe that no one can tell you smoke in the restroom, but you think it improves the smell!

You throw your butts on the walkways and ground. You start fires in trashcans, mulch, and grass. You set off fire alarms, sometimes far from where you are sneaking around because you have no clue how far your smoking travels. You even have no clue you started a fire because you were long gone by the time it became visible. You leave hundreds of butts and wrappers all over . . . inside, outside, in sinks, in toilets, in planters, in chairs, and on tables. You leave burn marks EVERYWHERE from benches to tables to chairs.

You smoke in your car, making yourself a danger to others. You fume up intersections, spreading your noxious fumes into other cars . . . cars with children and asthmatics. You flick your ashes and throw your butts into other cars.

You are uncaring that you make others sick, including your own children. Your smoking addiction steals food from their mouths, education from their minds, and clothes from their backs, and you still won't stop.

You do not have a right to do those things.

wow! excellent post - Bloated Toad

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Applause, applause. Best post of the thread, thank you!

Actually, it was the craziest post - What a loon

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Some of you ppl are real drama queens

I actually don't even smoke - Nonsmoker

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I just don't believe in infringing the rights of others.

you, you, you - over 40 times

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whatever your opinions about smokers, the personalization of your distaste is over the top.

unaware of reality? - smoker

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I am not the one that is unaware of reality. Or may I should call it delusional.

I am a danger on the road because I smoke in my car. That is such an exaggeration it really does not deserve a response.

Secondly I have never or would ever take food from my children or not put clothes on their backs because I smoke. Between my husband and I we make over $150,000 per year so I think we can afford clothing, food, shelter and CIGARETTES and can even afford to take the kids to the movies and on vacation. In fact we can even afford a case of beer now and then. What about it. My children have more clothes in their closets than I have. They eat a healthy balanced diet on most days and we live in a very nice home. So don't ever, ever include children in a conversation until you know the people personally. That is a horrible accusation and I take exception to it.

So sit back while I light up and blow smoke in your face. Now you might have something to talk about.

Maybe you should check out your facts before you spout the venomous unfounded accusations to someone.

I think it's a health insurance issue for employers. - Chemo is expensive.

[ In Reply To ..]
Insurance companies give employers discounts when their employees are smoke-free.

Smoking is a very expensive habit, both short-term and long-term.

Smell - Makes me sick

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You say: "So if my "smell" offends you then by all means don't be around me."

So you are telling me that I should call ahead to the grocery store to make sure you aren't there because the thought of smelling your smoke while I food shop makes me want to vomit?

I should call you ahead of time before I go to a movie to make sure you won't sit next to me because your smell makes me want to vomit and I can't enjoy the movie?

I should call ahead and see where you are going to be driving around town with your cig hanging out the window when I pull up next to you so I'll know which route to take to avoid you so I don't vomit in my car from your smell?

I should call and see if you are going to be at work today because the thought of sitting next to you smelling like an old ashtray makes me want to vomit?

Really?

And "you" above references all smokers, not one specific "you".

All of "you" smell and the smell makes me vomit, it honestly and truly makes me vomit.

Not to mention smokers always seem to blow their smoke in your direction - when walking buy outside

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GROSS. Even when the smoke outside it repulses me.

smell - smoker

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If you have a nose big enough to smell every smell in the grocery store, then by all means call ahead because I will go when I want to go.

If you can smell every smell in a movie theatre then you should be able to smell the popcorn over the smoke that is on my clothing. Believe me I change my clothing every day. And if you try to sit by me and the smoke eminating off of me is too much for you, then by all means feel free to choose another seat. I think there probaby are about 100-150 seats in the theatre. Oh but you might sit next to someone who bathes in perfume and smells like a French whore; that might be a more pleasant smell for you. So feel free.

If you can smell the smoke in my car then of course I will be happy to tell you what route I am taking so you can avoid me.

And maybe I should call you before coming to work to see if you are wearing too much perfume or cologne because that will put me in an asthma attack.

Point being, you don't want to be within a football field of me then fine, that is your choice, just as it is my choice to hang my cigarette out of my car in the free air that unfortunately we have to share.

Better yet, maybe you should put blinders on, and a gas mask so you don't have to smell smoke or look at all those nasty fat people.

Do you really understand how stupid and foolish you just made yourself sound. Oh and petty and childish???

but I CAN smell you in a store or a theater - different poster

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I too used to smoke. When you quit you realize how bad smokers smell. When my husband and I cleaned out my mother in law's house (died from COPD) her house stunk SO FREAKING BAD and even the dolls and other collectibles she had were worth less due to the nasty stink they had. it took the better part of 6 months to air out her house.

Smell - I have rights too

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Just as you feel you have rights (to cause others cancer, to give asthmatics attacks, etc.) I have the right to clean unpolluted air.

I sound petty and childish because I literally get sick and vomit from the smell of cigarette smoke? Well then call me petty and childish.

I should not have to walk 100 yards out of my way to enter a public building because "you" are out front sucking in your nicotine.

I should not have to roll my car windows up on a beautiful day because "you" choose to hang your arm out the window with your cig (I assuming so you don't stink up your own car, which I find amusing because you blow the smoke in the car!)

If you choose to kill yourself slowly that is just fine with me, but I would rather you not take me or my family with you, thank you very much!

I smell badly--that's your problem. - I don't get that attitude.

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Yes, if you want to stink it's your prerogative. I wouldn't be boasting about it though or belittling those who expect a little more effort.

I would be extremely uncomfortable if I thought the person next to me felt I stank. If I smelled like smoke or if I put too much perfume on, I would feel bad about it because I know that it's rude.

I don't get your attitude.

How can you not care if you stink? :o - nm.

[ In Reply To ..]
.

smoker - CJ

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Ever had a bronchoscopy? It's not a pleasant experience, but I see one (or many) in your future.

traffic smokers - Miss Anthrope

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OMG! I thought that it was only me who wanted to vomit when I am stuck next to or even behind a car at a red light with a stupid smoker nearby. Grumble to my child how much I feel the overwhelming need to puke. They have no idea how absolutely disgusting they are.

I am stupid enough to have been a smoker. Smoked for 20 years. Now I realizing what a rotten person I was. Been smoke-free for over five years -- best thing I ever did. Sadly enough, they found my smoking-related cancer just last year.

Please, grab a box of nicotine gum and chain-chew with me. Best thing a smoker could ever do. Please. Cancer sucks.

sounds like you have a vomiting problem - sm

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Not all of us smell, and I personally cannot stand the smell of cigarette smoke. Frankly, I can't stand being around fragrances but I can't go into a restroom without being assaulted by chemicals I would prefer not to breathe.

I happen to think it's hilarious that so many nonsmokers are happy to place inhalable "fragrance" chemicals in their homes and in their bathrooms, including the kind that is placed directly into the toilet paper roll!

Smoke = Vomit - Stinky

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Vomiting only occurs when I am subjected to cigarette/cigar/pipe smoke.

And sorry, but ALL smokers smell. ALL of them. I have never met one that didn't. I can tell a person smokes the second they walk into the office, walk by me in the store, etc. There is not one type of cigarette/cigar/pipe smoke that does not smell. If you think there is your smeller is broke or you are delusional.

stigmata of smoking - you can tell by looking at someone

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most of the time.

similarly, I can tell in a flash who consumes - artificial flavors and chemicals

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so there you go.

Okay dislikers, tell me why - lol

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When smoked, I had people tell me that I did not - look like a smoker at all and...

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a lot of people would be surprised and say "I didn't know you smoked?" So I disagree with the stigmata of being able to look at a person and tell they smoke. I have even met "closet smokers" who go through great lengths to hide it.

This might sound disgusting, but my dad only smoked when he went to the bathroom to take a dump.

Stigmata of smoking - Agree

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You sure can tell when someone is a smoker, at least if they are white.

Nicotine stains on the front teeth. The lip on the cigarette side is often irritated and asymmetrical. Facial wrinkles way earlier than you would expect -- that "Marlboro Man" look in men and a fine network of wrinkles in womwn even in their 20s. Fingers with nicotine stains and ash. Fingernails stained with nicotine and ashy-dirty underneath and around the cuticles.

The telltale giveaway is a faint ashy-grayish, slightly bluish undertone to the skin. Smoking devastates peripheral vascular circulation.

voice is a dead giveaway too - nasty

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x

or not...Joni Mitchell, Ted Koppel, Lou Dobbs - Nat King Cole

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Renuzit = Barf - sm

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Do what I do: try to stay away from things that make you sick. I can't stand inhaling other smokers' smoke, so I avoid it. I am rarely assaulted by smoke anywhere in my environment.

Makes me sick, too - xxx

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I know a pulmonologist who wears a button that says: IF YOU DON'T SMOKE, I WON'T THROW UP.

I used to feel the same way - as you do

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until I quit smoking. I had no idea how very strong and pervasive the smell of smoke is on and around someone who smokes until I no longer smoked. It really does stink, and it really is unpleasant to be around smokers. I just never realized it while my senses were dulled from smoking.

You are certainly free to hate anyone you want for any reason, but you need to realize that the smell of smoke clings to you and that others are likely to find that unpleasant and behave accordingly.

I used to feel the same way. - smoker

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I agree with you. I quit for 3 years and my husband continued to smoke. The smell on his hands made me sick to my stomach and I would ask him to wash his hands. But I never insisted he quit smoking because I did. My whole point is we all have choices and if you don't like being around someone that smokes then that is your choice and I have no problem with that. I just have a problem with someone who thinks they can insult, act stupid and feel their opinion is the only one that counts. Or tell anyone what they can do outside.

smoker - xxx

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Quit with the excuses and quit with the pollution of others' air space.

Employers do refuse to hire alcoholics - Try interviewing while smelling like one

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We terminate them at the first sign of behavior problems related to alcoholism.

interviewing with alcoholic - smoker

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If they interview and smell of alcohol then they don't deserve the job no matter what qualifications they have.

Now you just made my point. Alcoholism causes numerous issues, both health-wise for the drinker and society. How many alcohol-related deaths have there been in our country? What about the health issues it causes for the alcoholic. Believe me my ex-husband was an alcoholic and it killed him. Portal hypertension, esophageal varices, liver disease and finally liver cancer. I am sure the insurance companies enjoyed paying those hospital bills for years and years before it killed him. Why is it okay for the alcohol companies to continue to advertise on TV, yet cigarette companies cant. Neither of them should be able to.

My own belief is because alcohol related issues, DUI, public intoxication, etc. make lots and lots of money for the government (cities and states).

The whole point is you don't see any company advertising if you drink we will not hire you. In your own words "we terminate at the first sign of problems related to alcohol.

They can test to see if you have a drinking problem or not. If they are going to discriminate then discriminate against everything that is not healthy, not just one thing.

That is the whole point behind this thread.

What is this test for "drinking problem?" - News to me (nm)

[ In Reply To ..]
NM

Polluters - Sammy

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I have asthma. Why should I have to become ill because of someone else's addiction? Cigarette stench sticks to clothing, etc. Cigarettes are the only product which, if used in the way they are intended, produce DEATH. Yes, I do object if you give me cancer.

my son has asthma too, can't deal with it - I do get frustrated with smokers

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when you walk by at a movie theater or something they blow the smoke in your face. it's hard for him.

then why do you walk him by them? - sm

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Give the smokers a wider berth or perhaps maintain a safe distance until they are done. It may be inconvenient, but why would you choose to walk your son by smokers if you know it makes him ill, for goodness sake.

Wow! - Kidding, right?

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You are kidding aren't you? Why should we be inconvenienced by your smoking?

I am hoping you said this in jest, because if not, you are not a nice person and probably the kind of person who blows smoke in someone's face when they display any sign of disgust to your suicidal and homicidal habit.

It is people like you that make my blood boil with anger, then I realize, you can't help it...the smoking has killed off so many brain cells that you can't help but be a self-centered, disgustingly smelly, probably foul-mouthed low life who trades their food stamps for smokes.

And yes, I do stereotype. That is how I see you all that smoke, as low-class and ignorant.

I can also tell you, as a hiring manager, if someone comes to me for an interview and I can smell smoke on them, see their nicotine stained fingers and teeth, their resume goes into the circular file - you know, the trash.

why should you? - smoker

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You are too funny. Sounds to me like you think you are the only one in this world that matters. Not even your child matters enough for you to keep him out of danger. Thats a good mom for sure.

Second, maybe you should get your head of the clouds (actually I was thinking more the end that you sit on) because it takes all different kinds to make up this world, and all are different from each other in one respect or another.

But I will tell you this I am a smoker and I do have consideration for other people and my smoke. I do not smoke in doorways. If I am in a public place I go to my car and smoke. But I am sure you will have an issue with that. If someone comes into my home I never light up without asking if they mind.

But I can tell you this much, I would take a room full of smokers and all their smoke than have to put up with rude, arrogant, ignorant, self centered, mean spirited, and just downright hateful people like you. No I am not no food stamps nor have I ever been and if because I smoke I am low class I can think of quite a few low class people I would be happy to be in the same class with.

On the other hand, you are so full of yourself I don't know how you don't smell the crap that is inside of you that makes you so hateful to other people. Sorry you are so unhappy in your life that it is coming through like no tomorrow.

I have a needle ready over here and will be happy to send it to you whenever you are ready to deflate that ego of yours.

Ego? - My opinion

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Sorry if my opinion has offended you.

Yes, I do see people who smoke as low-class, the same way I see people who use curse words to get their point across, low-class and uneducated.

If you honestly think that your smoking does not affect others around you, you are the one who needs to pull something out your back side. The smoke on your clothes is enough to send some people to the ER.

It wasn't me that spoke about my child around smoke, but I do my best to keep my family away from second hand smoke.

Yes, I will walk out of my way. Yes, I will cough and wave my hand in front of my face, in hopes that maybe the smokers will realize that just because they choose to die early, I do not choose that for myself or my children.

I am not self-centered, I actually care about others around me and pay attention to what I do in case it may affect others negatively.

I am truly sorry if the way I see people who smoke as low-class offends you. But it is just my opinion and for you to get so hot under the collar about makes me think that maybe you just might feel a little guilty there hiding behind your smoke cloud.

good old passive aggression - hmm.

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at least you're not ignorant or low class.

Ego-my opinion - smoker

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No I am not hot under the collar at all. I take into consideration the low mentality and insecurities of people that judge other people without knowing them. If I choose to die early (if that happens) then who are you to have a voioce or opinin in that? Like I said I am considerate to other peoples feelings when I smoke but still that is not good enough.

I have been to the ER but not from smoke. From working next to someone who came in to the office wearing a half a bottle of perfume. Sent me to the ER and I was admitted for 2 days. What is the difference? Its okay to wear perfumes, scented hairspray, scented hand lotion, etc, that affects people but not smoke.

Get off the smoking kick. If you cant be fair to in all aspects of smells then it seems to be that is your problem not mine.

So no I am not hiding behind any smoke cloud (I believe you meant). I just believe in fairness to all. So I will take my low-class butt and go make dinner for my low-class family. Thanks for all of your input today. You certainly have taken the word shrewd to a new level as far as I am concerned.

Strong perfume, BO, smoke--all are... - unfortunate.

[ In Reply To ..]
I'm not the person you were speaking to, but yes--perfume can be as bad as smoke. If it's too strong it will make me sneeze relentlessly until I'm upwind. :) Body odor is of course pretty offensive. Smoke smell is also unpleasant. Sorry, they're all in the same category of unpleasant and offensive odors!

smoker - amazed

[ In Reply To ..]
I am amazed at how hard you fight for your right to kill yourself and harm those around you. Just shows how powerful the addiction is. Good luck in quitting.

well, that's just plain silly - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
I can tell you one thing: I would happily inconvenience myself rather than whine that smokers MAKE ME harm my child because I don't want to be inconvenienced. That's just silly.

Frankly, I don't think anyone should be inconvenienced by smokers. But if the poster prefers to walk her son by smokers rather than endure the inconvenience, that's entirely up to her - and who does that serve?

Meanwhile, you called me low-class and ignorant while making the ignorant assumption that I probably blow smoke in peoples' faces. I happen to be a very conscientious and conscious smoker. I am very aware of my surroundings. I don't smoke around kids and I don't smoke on the street. I don't even throw my cigarette butts on the ground.

So take your frustrations out on someone who deserves it. I do not.

Agree to disagree - Serves no purpose

[ In Reply To ..]
We are just going to have to agree to disagree about you saying you are a conscientious and conscious smoker. I personally don't believe there is any such person. Unless you wash your clothes and your hair and any items you have with you every time you leave your home or car, then you are affecting others with your second hand smoke.

I don't have frustrations. I am just giving my opinion about smoking and how people who smoke fail to see how it affects people around them.

I did not call you low-class. I said I see people who smoke as low-class.

I don't care who you are, the president, my doctor or nurse, the person who delivers my mail...if I can smell smoke on you or I see you smoking, my opinion of you drops considerably.

Kidding, right? - xxx

[ In Reply To ..]
This just proves my theory. SMOKING KILLS BRAIN CELLS.

Not kidding. It's self-evident. - Don't walk your child by smokers.

[ In Reply To ..]
alternatively, the poster could keep doing it and blame someone else. It's her son. It's up to her, yes?

if they are crowded around the door how could I avoid it - especially in the winter hard to avoid

[ In Reply To ..]
good grief.

you don't know her smoking habits - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
and therefore, it is unfair for you to assert that she pollutes the air around her or offends other people with an odor. But to call her worse than a leper? That really goes too far.

Duh - Sick of smoke

[ In Reply To ..]
If she smokes she pollutes the air around her and if one person EVER has been bothered by her smoke she has offended someone.

I didn't make the leper comment, but I think I would prefer to be around a leper than a smoker.

you would rather be around a leper than a smoker - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
I would rather be around a smoker than a snarker. Duh.

Derogatory reference to persons with Hansens disease - Hansen's disease is neither self-inflicted

[ In Reply To ..]
nor readily transmissible. In case you did not know.

Hansen's disease exists today. Its sufferers face discrimination and mistreatment due to prejudicial attitudes that are completely unnecessary.

Well I smoked for 18 yrs so I am not going to jump - down anyone's throat for

[ In Reply To ..]
smoking. Smoking is one of the hardest habits to break, I have heard that it is easier for a heroin addict to quit heroin than it is for a person to stop smoking and I believe it.

When I quit smoking I used Chantix. I had to have something else to help me besides will power. Trust me, quitting smoking is easier said than done. I literally cried, and I mean cried on my second day without a cigarette. Even with the Chantix in my system, that psychological addiction is 100% awful, but I made it through. My inspiration came from 2 family members of mine dying of lung cancer who were both long-time smokers.

I went an entire year without smoking and eventually went and bought an electric cigarette. I have been using the electric cigarette for 4 years now with no desire whatsoever to smoke again.

It took me 2-3 weeks to get the smell out my house, my car, my clothes etc. and now when Im out in public and someone walks by me who smokes I can smell it. I can tell if someone smokes even if they are just standing next to me in line by the way they smell and yes, I understand it may not be them, it could be someone in their house-hold who smokes. I know this because when I smoked, My husband smelled like smoke, my kids smelled like smoke, my cat smelled like smoke and so did my dog. Everything and everyone around me smelled like smoke.

But I don't judge because I know the severity of the addiction and it is a hard one to break.

Don't equate obesity with smoking. - L&L

[ In Reply To ..]
People have to eat to live. Some of us process it differently than others.

On the other hand, when you were born, the doctor didn't check to see if you had a good Moro and suck because he wanted to be sure you could smoke cigarettes. Smoking is an addiction, just like heroin and cocaine.

And some are addicted to food - your point?

[ In Reply To ..]
Yeah, we have to eat to live, but that doesn't mean a person should stuff themselves with crap food.

My point is, - L&L

[ In Reply To ..]
You start out your life eating. You must eat. You make an ill-advised choice to smoke based on being manipulated by Big Tobacco whose only concern is your money. Some people may end up overeating, but NOBODY HAS TO SMOKE TO SURVIVE. NOBODY HAS ANY REASON TO EVER START SMOKING IN THE FIRST PLACE.

My point is, L&L - smoker

[ In Reply To ..]
No different than McDonald's starting super sizing meals. I guess they only care that you get enough to eat, right?
Has nothing to do with their profit margins. Aren't they and all other fast food restaurants partly responsible for the obesity problem in this country? Nobody has to super size a meal to survive either.

Nobody has any reason to start smoking in the first place is true now. Not when I started smoking. No one new it was as addictive as it was.

Sounds to me that most everyone on here is happy that any company can tell you what you can do in your home or in your personal life. That is what is scary. They can tell me I cannot smoke on their property, and as a matter of fact I worked for a hospital that did just that. Believe it or not I was so busy I was fine with that. Left my smokes in the car and worked my shift. But no one is going to tell me what I have to do on my own time. Big brother needs to stay out of my personal life. Next if they decide they don't want to hire a blue-eyed person, or a short person, an obese person, or any other type of person that will affect someone.

Sensorship has to start somewhere but when it starts there is no stopping it.

THAT WAS THE WHOLE POINT OF THIS CONVERSATION. Just got way off track.

I don't know if the hospital the OP was talking about is here in Michigan, but I used to work for that hospital for 9 years, as a smoker. Now it is on their website in big red writing if you smoke do not apply. Will be tested, and this hospital takes blood as part of your hiring physical.

You need to look past the hand in front of your face and see the bigger picture. If they posted we will not hire obese people, you would be in an uproar, but because its smoking then its okay. No it is not.

It is not discrimination or censorship - And some do not hire the obese, as well

[ In Reply To ..]
This is not about telling you what to do in your own home. It is about not wanting to employ drug addicts whose addiction leads to ill health, absenteeism, behavior problems, property damage, and high healthcare costs, and whose behavior sends an inappropriate message to society. Smokers cost employers more money than they are worth, in more ways than one.

Courts have upheld the rights of employers to do this.

Some employers are also refusing to hire the obese. That is primarily related to their healthcare costs, their inability to do some aspects of their jobs, the damage to furniture, floors, and equipment, and the inappropriate message it sends to clients.

They care b/c they are paying for part of your - insurance.

[ In Reply To ..]
They are investing their money in your health.

I'm an ex-smoker - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
I'm not one of those ex-smoker's that jump on the bandwagon on how bad they smell, etc. They DO smell much worse to me now that I quit, but it is NOT my place to tell others they can't smoke. Most perfumes make me completely nauseated as well, but I also don't feel it is my place to run around telling people to only wear my preferred brand of perfume.

You are right, nobody EVER has to start smoking in the first place, just like nobody ever has to drink a sugary soda in the first place. Nobody ever has to eat a fattening, greasy burger in the first place, nobody has to indulge in the over-caffeinated beverages of our time, nobody has to add tons of salt to their food and the list goes on. People CHOOSE to indulge in things that make them feel good or that they enjoy, knowing full well the health risks associated with it. The whole point of this thread is a company telling an individual that they CANNOT do something that is completely legal in their off time, THAT is unconstitutional and scary for me when we start letting someone else control our lives like that.

Because you are not a smoker and have never been - addicted to anything, you have no clue.

[ In Reply To ..]
You have no clue. When I started smoking, I started because it was like self medicating, the inhale/exhale was like a relaxation thing to me. I was going through a really rough time in my life an had just experienced a traumatic incident. It was not because I was around people who were smoking because they thought it was cool, I did it as a means to try to relax.

Bad decision? Yes, absolutely because I ended up addicted. I was young, only 18 yrs old and knew nothing about antidepressants, antianxiety medication or any of that so I found my own remedies. People try things and end up with bad habits for a variety of reasons so don't judge.

By the way, I am now on medication and have since kicked the habit, but it was not easy to do; in fact, it was one of the hardest things I have ever done and unless you have been there, you wouldn't understand.

Food is an addiction as well. - md

[ In Reply To ..]
Food is DEFINITELY an addiction. It is much more difficult of an addiction to control, because you are right, we HAVE to eat in order to live, but we are supposed to eat what our bodies require for ENERGY, not over-indulge in whatever we choose.

I don't use sugar or salt for health reasons - L&L

[ In Reply To ..]
I cook all my own food for health reasons. I don't snack or eat junk food. My metabolism is so slow I could out-survive the Donner Party.

I've been discrimanated against for being obese more often than not. Why do you think I work at home as an MT?

Why worry about big corporations telling you what NOT to do in your own home when BIG CORPORATIONS have been telling all along what you SHOULD DO with your life by their advertising and manipulation.

Humans are just stupid cows to be milked for profits, but smokers STILL STINK and make others around them ill.

Having watched 3 smokers slowly die, it's - not completely inaccurate

[ In Reply To ..]
to compare smokers to lepers. And they do it by choice? I don't understand it.

exactly - I would rather be hit by a train

[ In Reply To ..]
than die a smoker.

Every time my dad complains about - the cost of health insurance

[ In Reply To ..]
while sitting there sucking on a cancer stick, I just shake my head.

My sister-in-law told me they swab your mouth - for nicotine. So I am guessing...

[ In Reply To ..]
Im guessing that if you smoke an electric cigarette that contains nicotine, you will obviously test positive.

I smoke an electric cigarette and have not smoked in over 4 years and I use the refillable liquid which contains nicotine. You can buy the liquids that contain no nicotine at all, but I use the ones with 18 mg of nicotine in it.

I was curious about this myself. It would be interesting to know how they handle a situation like that. I know of people who don't smoke, but are addicted to the nicotine patches and wear those. Would they discriminate against you for wearing a nicotine patch or smoking an E-cig? Good question.

My employer has banned all of it - ALL of it

[ In Reply To ..]
My employer has banned cigarettes, pipes, cigars, snuff, chewing tobacco, smokeless tobacco, electric cigarettes, nicotine gum, and whatever else you can come up with.

They will provide counseling and a prescription for Chantix. Patients get patches.

that's awesome - hopefully all employers will follow suit

[ In Reply To ..]
x

This looks like a post you would see on the - politics board.

[ In Reply To ..]
:(

Smoking - Mary Roach

[ In Reply To ..]
Regarding smoking and whether or not it is "fair" for an employer to decide whether or not to hire a smoker:

I live in North Carolina, which is also a right-to-work state. An employer has a choice about whom to hire. There are laws protecting people from certain walks of life (based on religion, gender, etc.) from job discrimination.

There are no laws preventing an employer from avoiding hiring smokers. At what point does an employer have the right to decide the criteria by which they would choose an employee? Do employers not have rights, or are we (employees) the only ones who have such choices?

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