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Mom's house

Posted: Jul 21, 2011

Okay I just want some of your opinions please. My mother who lived next to me started dating a man on Valentines Day. Two weeks later they informed me they had went and got married. I had no idea they were going to do this. She had been seeing him 2 weeks for crying out loud. I was in shock but got on with it. A little background here: My mom's house was paid for outright when it was built about 6 years ago and has never had a note. The house is worth 250,000 or was appraised for that anyway. So they married after 2 weeks of dating. Three months later she puts the house in HIS name, deeds it over to him. I was like have you lost your mind? You have been with him 3 months and deeded your house to him. I said WHY? I realize its her house but geez that is just crazy. She said I deeded it to him because I owed the IRS $20,000 and they had put a lien on my house and he said he would pay it but the IRS wouldn't discuss it with him because he did not own the home. So she said she deeded it to him so he could talk with them and pay the lien off. I was like why didn't he give you the money and you call and pay the amount, simple. Or better yet give him a power of attorney to handle the deal but geez don't just sign your house over. Well she would not listen to reason. So I said whatever and went on about my business. Okay, now it has been 5 months they have been together. The house was deeded to him about 2 months ago. Last week the house burns to the ground. The fire marshall suspects arson. I know my mom wouldn't have burnt it because all her pics were in there of me and my sister when we were little and just tons of stuff of hers and she is devastated. Oh BTW, they did not live in the house. They are living in his house. But her belongings were in her house, most of them anyway. Some people in the community think he done it. It is odd that they get married 2 weeks after dating. The house is deeded to him in a few months then burns to the ground in a couple months. Everybody says it sounds suspicious. I think it does too really. She is just adament he didn't do it but she is so gullible. She will do anything he asks her to. Hearing this situation and having no bias either way, what is your opinion? Does this sound suspicious? ;

In whose name is the insurance policy? In whose - name is the insurance

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payout, if any: the husband because the house was "deeded" to him, or both because they're married? If the Fire Marshall is suspicious of arson, the insurance investigators have reasons to be suspicious, too. The circumstances are, seemingly, convenient...for the husband and arson. Does he owe money on his house? Has he taken out any life-insurance policies on your mother? These are moot points: Did you consider doing an online background check on him, and could she have applied for a $20,000 loan using her paid-in-full house as collateral, or worked out a payment plan with the IRS? I don't know all the legal ins and outs of this situation, but I do empathize with your concerns, and I anticipate this situation receiving a less than passing "sniff test" score with the insurance carrier. I only hope your mom isn't dragged into an arson/insurance-fraud imbroglio.

She said the insurance was in her name... - anonymouse

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But will they let you have insurance in one name and another person the owner of the house? If so then I guess it is in her name. But I do know she deeded the house to him. Yes, he owes about $125,000 on his house. He hasn't taken out life ins on her as I know of but of course he prob wouldn't tell me if he had. I have considered an online background check on him. She said she couldn't get a loan to pay them off. I would think they would gladly loan on a paid for house worth that amount. If she defaulted they would come out smelling like a rose. She also said the IRS said they would not work out a payment plan. I was surprised at that too. It just doesn't add up. Something just isn't right. I hope I'm wrong. But I'm not the only one who has suspicions. My sister-in-law said from the get go as soon as she heard it had burned up that he did it. My brother-in-law also said he was very suspicious of him. But if I try to talk to her about it she gets mad and gets very defensive of him so I think I will just keep my opinions to myself for now and see how it plays out. I just want to know if it sounds fishy to anyone else?

If they file the insurance claim, when the - insurance investigators

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review the Fire Marshall report, they'll investigate. If an "official" person contacts you and asks you questions about this situation, just answer the questions honestly and voice your concerns; until then, maybe you could give your mom space to work this out in her own head for herself. As stated, I don't know the ins and outs. For example, if the Fire Marshall suspects arson, is the FM's report forwarded to the police? I do perceive waving "red flags," and any party who would directly benefit from an insurance payout is a person of interest in an arson/insurance investigation.

If the insurance policy is in her name - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
and there is a payout, it will come to her without his name on it. Yes, the insurance companies name whoever buys the policy and not the spouse, regardless of being married. I know this because my husband bought insurance for my condo which also is paid for and when we had a water damage claim, the checks all came in his name. I was able to deal directly with contractors and make decisions, but he was the only one who could sign those checks and pay them.

The IRS info is a red flag to me. I also owe back taxes and they threatened to attach a lien to the condo. I am unemployed and was able to qualify for "noncollectable status" because my only income was unemployment benefits. This is a temporary status subject to review whenever I find a job or receive steady income (not a one-time payout, such as the sale of a car). They still attached the lien, but are not moving forward to foreclose.

While dealing with them, they did not ask me for any of my husband's income information. I explored my options in detail with them. Since the condo is my household residence and I am 62 years old, they said they would not take it to collect the debt, even if I come out of the NC status. They told me on-the-spot what my payment would be if I entered into a payment plan. I believe the longest term for a plan is 5 years, but am not sure.

They also discussed the possibility of an Offer of Compromise, which is a way to reduce amount owed and make an offer to pay out, either all at once or over a short term. There are instructions on how to do this on the IRS website. There is also a free taxpayer advocacy service posted on the IRS site that provides free counseling and guidance through these various processes. For this reason, I WOULD NOT advise getting an attorney, but rather trying to negotiate the process with their help.

They were emphatic about IRS "not being in the business of buying and selling houses" and that their primary interest was to collect money owed to them. In my case, because my condo is worth much less than your mom's, I have been unemployed for 18 months and am near retirement age, they said it is very likely they would accept an offer in compromise for a lesser amount (for example, only collecting the principle amount minus penalties and interest, or even less) based on how likely it would be for them to ever get the entire amount over the course of my lifetime. FYI, there is a 10-year statute of limitations on collection. That means for example that the taxes I owe for 2002 cannot be collected after April 15, 2012.

I am trying to ilustrate to you just how unlikely it would be for the IRS to tell your mom that they would not work out a payment plan, so that info is DEFINITELY suspect.

As for any arson investigation, that is a double-edged sword. Of course, I would want any jerk who torched my mom's house to be convicted and serve time. However, if arson is confirmed, there will be no insurance payout, so you have to decide how vocal you may or may not want to be should the investigators ask you any questions. Personally, I would answer any questions directly and honestly, but not offer any information or voice suspicions. It is their job to get to the bottom of it (at least in terms of approving or disapproving payout), and my primary focus would be on trying to recover the loss.

Also suspect is the alleged inability to get a loan when IRS has a lien on the property. She only owes 20,000 and would only need to borrow that amount. In the case of default, they would make a bundle after IRS gets their share. That info does not pass the smell test either.

There is so much about this scenario that does not add up, to be sure. I would definitely proceed with the fullest background check you can do on him quietly behind the scenes while trying to get on his good side to gain his trust. If your play your card right, over time he may just end up inadvertetnly implicating himself. At the very least, you could find out more about his financial status through the BG check. It he owes on his house, he is required to have insurance. Many times people buy life insurance policies from the same company that carries their house insurance. Also, life insurance policies are often bought through bank offers with companies they have partnerships with. I would become a super-sleuth and snoop around til the cows come home.

Try to look at this as a long-term project. Resign yourself to the idea that if your mom can manage to get an insurance payout to cover the loss, that he (if he did do it) will probably never see the inside of a courtroom, because if he is ever convicted, your mom would have to give the money back. However, there is more than one way to skin a cat. My priority would be to get the creep away from my mom and out of your lives.

I defintely smell a rat here, and I do believe he is living under the same roof with your mom. Good luck. Never underestimate the power of karma. Sooner or later, the guilty party, if there is one, will end up on the losing end of all of this.

Arson dogs are trained to detect accelerants/ - flammable liquids.

[ In Reply To ..]
X

My DH and I dated about 2 weeks then married - see message

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It's not unusual to get married after just two weeks. As a side note I would never ever recommend it. But we were in the military and young and at the age of doing things spontaneously without thinking.

I definitely see your concerns, however, if you are not there with them every day listening to their conversations, her worries, what she wants for her future, etc I would say you just have to trust your mom that she is doing what she wants. I couldn't stand the guy my mom married after she divorced, but it was her choice.

My heart aches that your mom lost all her possesions that cannot be replaced. It does sound very suspicious. If there was any wrong doing the investigators will find out.

I'd say the best thing you can do is try to keep your mom close to you and be happy for her, show her your support. If he is a real loser (and it sounds like he is), she may find out in her own time and she will need to lean on you for support.

Very, very suspicious - If it walks like a duck...

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I remember your post about the time your mom got married to this guy. I wasn't able to post a response at the time, though.

I have a very different take than the people who say give your mom space because she's an adult and knows what she's doing. I personally would hire an investigator and get as much background as I could on this guy. I would much rather think I had spent the money in vain if nothing happens than to kick myself for not doing it at the time that I was planning my mother's funeral because of this guy. This most recent event and your previous posts about this situation sends up all kinds of red flags to me and if it were my mom, no, I wouldn't sit back and just let things play out because she's an adult. There's something rotten in Denmark with this guy and if it sounds like a duck and looks like a duck and walks like a duck... it ain't a chicken.

I agree with you - Investigation Discovery junkie

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As I read through this thread, I'm thinking in a couple years I be seeing this story on "Who the Bleep Did I Marry."

I want to add, though, I think there is no harm in the OP telling the police she has suspicions. I think they like to know what family members are feeling and thinking. They can take it from there, but if they suspect something isn't right, it's easier for them to make decisions to act if the family also expresses uneasiness about the situation. JMO

I agree; sounds very suspicious and even if she has the insurance, he - RoadrunnerMT

[ In Reply To ..]
still stands to benefit from an insurance payout as long as he is with her because he sounds like the controller type for certain. I am sure he himself already has plans for that payout money including paying off his house.

The quick action of marriage and all fits the controller profile too. I'd stay very close with mom, visiting her often, and watch for more signs from this dude.

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