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Did anyone watch on with the Zimmernan trial while no work...

Posted: Jun 29, 2013

Did any MT watch the girlfriend on the stand and relate? OMG....look at how upset the highly educated lawyers, judge, and courtroom were when they could not understand someone who was not fluent in the English language as she was originally from another country and spoke other languages!! She spoke softly and low and just had a tiny tiny accent!!! They were ALL getting upset because the court reporter could not do her job...she could not understand!!!! All LEGAL too!!! The prosecution and defense lawyers with years of schooling and very, very high salaries were riveted...they questioned, and requestioned and were totally frustrated at how long it took, and she had to come back for a second day...and they were NOT sure if they had things right and were talking about impeachment! Oh...don't we have to have 98% error rate...and medical terminology, and perfect English/verbatim. Oh, the court still has a court reporter and not VR, yet!

;

Are you talking about Rachel Jeantel? - She is not from another country

[ In Reply To ..]
She's not from another country and as far as I know doesn't speak any other languages. I haven't read that about her, at least. If you have a site link, I'd be interested in seeing that.

What she WAS speaking, however, according to Chris Hayes on MSNBC was very literate Black English. There have been some interesting stories on Mediaite.com about it.

This girl is from the 'hood and was raised in the inner city. What I find sad and depressing is that she apparently is only capable of communicating in Black English, as her Twitter feed shows, and she can manage social media and getting her nails done, but she won't be able to function in the wider world, literacy in her own "language" or not.

Sorry. I take that back. I just saw she's from Haiti - BUT she's been here since she was 6

[ In Reply To ..]
Originally being from Haiti, okay, I get that. She's been here since at least the second grade because she's known Trayvon that long. So, she's been in this country for at least 13 years.

She speaks Haitian Creole, Spanish, English and - AAVE dialect

[ In Reply To ..]
which makes her trilingual and diglossic. Do you know something about her "literacy" the rest of us don't? Which of those are you presuming to be "her own language?" IMO, that is something only Rachel Jeantel is qualified to determine with any degree of certainty, since her ability to read and write in Creole, Spanish and English are only a matter of speculation.

She certainly did not appear to have any difficulty reading, comprehending and responding appropriately to the court transcripts. Despite the best efforts of all the legal expertise in that room, she also was not the least bit led astray by repeated attempts to get her to deviate from the core facts of the case, that an unarmed Trayvon Martin was a teenager walking home from the store, excited about the game, talking on the phone to a friend while being followed by an armed male adult who ultimately shot him to death.

As for her ability to function in the "wider world," would that include Spanish- and Haitian-speaking countries, Black, Hispanic/Latino, and Haitian communities, or is that realm strictly confined to places where people only speak the King's English? How do you know what she is and is not capable of doing? For example, what's to stop her from establishing and marketing a successful chain of nail salons in both white and ethnic communities mentioned above? As an English-only speaking Anglo, I have had the same Spanish- and broken-English speaking hairdresser for 20 years. I would not consider ever going to anyone else, because she is an extremely talented hair artist who knows me, my hair and exactly what needs to be done to it, and she delivers her services at rock-bottom prices my budget can afford.

BTW, how well do you suppose the rest of us monoglots would fare in those above described settings?

OMG...way off and defensive...it surely is no subject - to bring up

[ In Reply To ..]
You see how people see different things even when watching the same thing! No argument about the entire case...point being was that she SPOKE in court like what MTs have to deal with in our jobs and we are not supposed to get job fatigue. I was NOT judging the witness at ALL nor was I making any verdict in the least. We all have our viewpoints...that was NOT the intent. Don't rant. Wonder what the Dragon would have typed having had Voice Recognition. I will pray harder at church tomorrow for anyone who thought there was anything else meant by my observance. Too much evil in this world. I worked in hospitals because I knew doctors were touched by the hand of God and had the ability to save lives. Do not wish pain and suffering on anyone.

Yes, I understood the point about how she speaks - MTs, and

[ In Reply To ..]

I also understood that the following statement, to which I responded, had nothing to do with MTs or transcription. Instead, it had everything to do with Rachel Jeantel's inner city background and what I perceive to be more than just a smidge of condescension, whether intentional or not.

"This girl is from the 'hood and was raised in the inner city. What I find sad and depressing is that she apparently is only capable of communicating in Black English, as her Twitter feed shows, and she can manage social media and getting her nails done, but she won't be able to function in the wider world, literacy in her own "language" or not.

"This girl is from the 'hood and was raised in the inner city. What I find sad and depressing is that she apparently is only capable of communicating in Black English, as her Twitter feed shows, and she can manage social media and getting her nails done, but she won't be able to function in the wider world, literacy in her own "language" or not.

Could you be so kind as to enlighten me on which part of the post was not responsive to that statement and why discussing the case itself is considered a "rant" when the OP specifically mentions the "Zimmerman trial?" How is that any more "way off" than the statement I replied to? Evidently, I am not aware of the strict guidelines to which it seems I am expected to adhere. Furthermore, what does prayer, the church, and the hand of God and "too much evil in this world" have to do with any of this?

Nothing about what you are talking about. - Haiti

[ In Reply To ..]
They asked her questions in the beginning. HLN reported that she spoke Haitian and her mother lives in Haiti. Yes, her name is Rachel. They asked her questions on the stand. They indicated that English was not her primary language. Absolutely NO mention of your Black English. I never even heard that before. Also never heard 'big a** cracker' either, nor did I even know it was considered 'offensive.' My main point was totally missed by your post. Don't know what MSNBC is reporting, but CNN and HLN covered the entire court case..and professionally. Dr. Drew is right there and right on...he never said anything about anything other than how the testimony was difficult because of the language barrier. That's all. It was totally in reference to an MTs job and how we have to do this as a living for 3 cents...that is my 2 cents worth..nothing more.

What I found fascinating was that part - when the defense

[ In Reply To ..]
was honing in on the audio and transcript dealing with the "get off, get off" statement. In court she remembered saying in the interview and deposition that she COULD hear Trayvon saying that, but the transcript read, "I coulda hear Trayvon."

I immediately had a conversation with my husband about this very same thing, that if there was any doubt on the part of the court reporter what she was hearing and, especially if the transcription statement context appeared in any way to be inconsistent or unclear, that they should have left a blank there and flagged it. Unfortunately, that did not happen.

Consequently the attorney was able to speculate about what Rachel REALLY said (as if she didn't know), and asked her if she wasn't sure she said, "I couldn't hear it was Trayvon" or "I couldn't know it was Trayvon?" By doing so, he was able to cast doubt on her recollection of the event in court, which I think was a direct result of inaccurate or uncertain transcription, despite the fact it was probably the transcriptionist's very best GUESS at what he or she heard.

As it turns out, this is a very crucial, almost PIVOTAL point in the case.

This is where the subjects being reported on HLN (language barrier) and other outlets, such as MSNBC among others, who are exploring not only the finer points of AAVE (African-American Vernacular English) structural usage, context, variations, verb mood and tense, but also the cultural misunderstandings that arise from language barriers those aspects of diversity illustrate.

AAVE is every bit a legitimate dialect as Cajun creole or any of the other numerous North American dialects listed in the link. Fascinating stuff that has direct bearing on this case and its outcome, if anyone is interested.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dialects_of_the_English_language#United_States

Leave a blank and flag it??? - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
This is a courtroom. Court reporters transcribe what the person says. If they cannot understand they stop them or record sounds, just as this one did.

Leaving a blank and flagging it is not an option. Who would fill it in??? And when???

Having worked for immigration defense attorneys - in the past

[ In Reply To ..]
I know that in the case of recorded depositions and hearing (not trial) transcripts, the use of blanks and flags was not all that unusual, since the transcription was done from recorded media. The defense attorney in this case was alluding to sworn a deposition.

I've seen numerous prosecution and defense transcripts that have been left with incomplete text in them. The reporters we contracted worked in teams where incomplete transcriptions were reviewed by supervisors and, when accurate transcription was not possible due to background noise, voice quality, accents and the like, it was left blank, not filled in with best guesses. We were even able to request the tapes themselves to review in an effort to decipher inaudible testimonies. Oftentimes, the blanks were left to stand, with the expectation that clarification would be forthcoming during the trial phase if need be.

I think it was flagged - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
There were 2, maybe 3 different transcripts. One of them had stars where that particular statement was (flag). Then the second or third had the blank filled in after the prosecution's court reporter or someone else took a listen. But still was obviously in question since Rachel was not able to to really confirm what she said that I remember anyhow.

But going off course here a little, I think even though her testimony seemed honest, could be questionable by jurors since it's possibly been influenced or tainted by the fact that Martin's lawyers got a hold of her before law enforcement.

What got me was in response to a question by the defense why she didn't contact police when she realized she was the last person to talk to Martin, she said words to the effect that the police were supposed to call her. They get the cell phone and call back the last number. She asked him, "Don't you watch the First 48?"

And she was right. The police really seem to have done a pretty rotten job at investigating this case. Other witnesses said they just dropped off forms at their homes telling them they could fill them out if they wanted. Doesn't sound like a really thorough or serious investigation.

I'm not making a commentary on the guilt or innocence or something in between of Zimmerman, but this case would probably had a much more transparent and proper conclusion if police had Rachel running the investigation!! ;-)

When being questioned about the deposition - and

[ In Reply To ..]
when West was speculatively "interpreting" the audio, Rachel's response was, "Trust me. They messed up. I could hear Trayvon." Sounds pretty definitive to me. It did appear there was more than one version of the transcript. Neither the judge nor the prosecution attorney appeared to have page numbers on theirs.

I also thought she made it pretty clear that she was not all that thrilled to be interviewed by Crump, a claim that was further supported by the lengths she went to in order to maintain her privacy and when describing her desire and reasons for wanting to stay out of it and not be called as a witness. I don't think she was any more cooperative with him than she was with the defense folks.

As someone who has experienced the loss and grief over both parents, a brother, brother-in-law and a best friend, it's just not that hard to understand a 19-year-old being in that mindset so soon after being the last person who spoke to Trayvon. Her admonishment to West, "You've got to understand," is entirely appropriate, regardless of how it came across in the court room.

In terms of the investigation, what I will NEVER understand is the unconscionable reality that somehow the shooter was questioned and released BEFORE the parents were even informed of their son's violent death. I totally agree with her and your observation about how the police bumbled their part in the initial stages until media glare and public outrage forced them to change their course.

It is premature to comment on guilt or innocence. All I can say is that, at the very least, the Martins, like any other family, deserve this day in court. It's a shame what they had to go through to get it, but it's a relief to see that day has finally arrived.

Watched Zimmerman - Sunflower

[ In Reply To ..]
I was not aware that she spoke different languages. Why was she speaking so low? She was illiterate, at least that is what the lawyer said. He asked her if she could read the letter that was written for her and she said no, she could only understand one word. I am not sure why they called her to the stand, unless they are trying to prove that maybe there is more to this than meets the eye. Maybe the kid was not so innocent.

the kid was not so innocent? - NK

[ In Reply To ..]
Maybe they called her as a witness because she was the last one the victim talked to. What in the world does her speaking different languages, speaking so low, and being illiterate, if, indeed, she is, have to do with "maybe the kid was not so innocent?"

Correct plus, the prosecution put her on. It would be the defense that would want Martin to - appear not so innocent NM

[ In Reply To ..]
x

Cursive handwriting - anon

[ In Reply To ..]
Rachel told the attorney that she cannot read "cursive" handwriting, but she was reading the typed documents.

When asked if she could read the letter, - she said

[ In Reply To ..]
not all of it. Have you seen a copy of it. There are words in there I cannot decipher either, and if I were in her shoes, knowing full well the attorney was about to parse every single word and grill me on it, I would have responded the same way.

She was called to the stand because she is an ear witness to the shooting AS IT WAS OCCURRING, and was privy to what the victim was saying and doing. She's the closet thing they have to the star witness, which would be the deceased teenager. Why wouldn't they call her?

Not sure what your point about her soft voice and demeanor has to do with anything, but I guess some people believe GZ was the only person who had the right to self defense and the unarmed, "not so innocent" kid was just supposed to roll over and take it like a man.

She lied - nobody can trust her. Whatever she has to say - should be thrown out

[ In Reply To ..]
The simple truth is she lied. There is nothing she has to say that will make me believe anything she has to say. Of course she's going to say anything to convict the guy, no matter whether or not its true.

sure she did....uh...I would have too - if I felt as she did about

[ In Reply To ..]
not wanting to hurt the family any more than they already were. She did not want to have to go through this fiasco of a trial and now she is thrust into the midst of it, being called a liar because she told people she was in the hospital at the time of the wake, and that she was 16. Big Deal! Like you have never told a lie or two to protect yourself either, right! Jodi Arias lied too, and her life has been spared, so far, for a heinous murder she committed. This young girl did nothing wrong. No matter what Trayvon Martin did or did not do, which has not been proven as fact in any way, shape, or form, he did not deserve to die at the hands of a wannabe vigilante. If GZ had a "right to defend himself," so did Trayvon... and Trayvon is dead. Nobody should be "hunted down" just because they are black, wearing a hoodie, and carrying skittles and an ice tea, in a neighborhood someone believed to be HIS and HIS alone. Nobody gave GZ the absolute right to kill first and ask questions later. He shows no remorse whatsoever for what happened that night. He also lied about how much he and his wife had in finances when the investigation began and nobody is bringing that up, which to me is a much worse offense than a young girl lying about why she did not go to the funeral of her best friend. GZ also had intentions of leaving the country to avoid prosecution. HE is the true perpetrator here... not this poor young black woman who is only trying to protect herself and Trayvon's reputation.

I agree. And blatant police incompetence to get the ball rolling - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
Had this case been handled and investigated professionally and properly, Rachel would not have have been put in a such a position of exploitation by Martin's family and lawyers, and ridicule as she is in now. I'm not saying what the Martin family/lawyers did was wrong on their part, but it was wrong that it had to happen in order to force an investigation.

All the police had to do was get her fresh and get a statement right after the fact. She was the last one Martin spoke to. Why weren't the police on this within 1 or 2 weeks? By not questioning her and providing a little guidance, they just left her out there to fend for herself. She was in a closet for goodness sakes during a phone interview with Crump. Lies were all she had to protect herself, because lord knows no one else was giving her a hand unless it was for exploitative purposes.

The police dropped off statement documents at witnesses' houses to fill out at their discretion, had an interview and walk-through with Zimmerman, and case closed.

Not good to lie and worse in court, bottom line. - anon

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To the person who did not get the reference to a simple statement of the difficulty in interpretation we do in our jobs, to not understanding why God was brought into the picture. I did not want to judge. There are several wrongs that were done in this case, and now Lady Justice has to decide. I never wanted to argue who was right or wrong nor any judgment call on the poor 19 year old. I cannot judge her in the least. All I know is that God help us to deal with whatever the verdict is as we are still an angry society, as you have shown. There should have never been a life lost. We will still argue over gun control, racism and religion. Glad I am not a juror, and glad you are not either...so keep typing.

So testifying she lied in the past - about her age and name

[ In Reply To ..]
during the cross examination is your idea of lying in court, or is this an arbitrary conclusion drawn while simultaneously claiming you "cannot judge her in the least?" I'm asking because I thought that admission was, in fact, telling the truth while under oath. Whatever the case, it is up to the jury to decide whether or not a high-school girl's attempts to protect her privacy while in the throes of grieving the loss of her friend to senseless violence is sufficient reason to discount all the rest of her case-related accounts that are backed up by the indisputable facts. An unarmed kid walking home from the store was singled out as suspicious and reported to the police as such by an armed adult who followed him after he was told not to and shot him to death.

Correction. You can't trust her - and

[ In Reply To ..]
you cannot speak for anyone else. That's the simplest truth of all.

He lied too, in court and to police... - so how come you choose

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to believe him and his lies, and not hers? at least hers were "innocent" lies and his were only to get himself out of a situation he alone put himself into. He lied about how much money he had, and was getting through his website...he lied about not wanting to leave the area after his initial arrest... he lied about Trayvon confronting him... he lied about looking for an address... there are so many lies, and yet you choose to not trust a young lady who lied about her age so she would not have to testify, and who lied about being in the hospital when she felt too ill at ease to go to her friend's funeral and face Trayvon's parents. Big difference here!! big big difference.

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