Which Candidates Do You Like?
Posted: Mar 1, 2014
It seems most threads begin with something or someone people don't like - I'm more interested in what/who you do like? :)
I don't know of anyone on the horizon that would fit the bill, but I'd like to see someone who isn't a party puppet - someone that isn't afraid to step outside of party lines to put the country first, rather than party politics - but they'd lose financial support if they did. And let's not forget all those lobbyists' money they'd be losing ;)
Ever read "Where Have All The Leaders Gone" by Lee Iacocca?
I've yet to read the entire book, but this is a man I'd vote for.
I also liked some things Ron Paul wanted to do regarding government spending, as well as Chris Christie's stance on focusing on his hurricane-torn state rather than the 2012 presidential election - that is until this current scandal.
I won't say more about him because I don't know enough yet about his possible involvement. However, it did appear that both parties seemed to lie in wait to crucify the man, possibly for what they already do every day, as politicians, after he took that Sandy stance.
(Not that I think shutting down the Washington Bridge is ever okay, as part of political warfare, but unfortunately, I believe this kind of thing goes on every day in politics anyway and both parties couldn't wait to find some dirt)
It's much like "Tucker" or "Delorean" and "The Big Three" car companies - anyone new, trying to do something different, would be shut down for even trying to step outside the box, and if no dirt could be found, they'd create it, quote them only partially and twist it beyond all recognition.
;
Should've Read "Potential" Candidates of Course - Research Further
[ In Reply To ..]
I initially wrote that in the title but when I went back to edit before publishing, the title portions, etc., were blank and I didn't include on retype.
Some asked for my more political opinions below, and though I included them in the bottom two paragraphs of my original (removed) post, here are some more above.
Two points. - No Name
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You brought up some good points. First off, a lot of us have held back on naming our favored potential candidate at this stage because it may become fodder for some on this board.
My second point is to simply strongly agree with your last paragraph, especially with the closed-minded thinking by some on this board. What comes to mind is the predatory-like style some on this board used to pounce all over Christie, gleefully oohing and aahing with delight at the prospect of bringing him down.
I am purposefully leaving my moniker off this response because I am in no mood to deal with detractors to your post.
Thank You - Research Further
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For your thoughts and I understand - I'm sorry you feel you feel your more positive messages for candidates will become fodder :/
It's much like negative campaign ads against an opponent often win versus telling us more about the actual candidate sponsoring the ad - or that these days, we often vote AGAINST someone, more than FOR them.
As for me, I actually voted for Obama but am regretting doing so, in some ways. But I also think he gets blocked on anything decent he does actually ever do, too.
Because let's face it, even our least favorite president occasionally did something decent. And though I agree with some of the sentiment about his decisions expressed, I appreciate what my fiancé, a former Army Ranger, has to say - "He's still our Commander In Chief" - so I can't bring myself to name-call him.
And I think both parties are blocking each other, out of spite, more than the actual issue these days, and therefore we can't get anything done.
Nancy Pelosi comes to mind as being particularly vindictive with this, as well as Mitch McConnell.
I used to be a liberal, but I thought people like Nancy were hypocritical - all that talk about tolerance (towards everyone but Republicans, I guess).
I guess I'm more of a "libertarian" these days - or if you prefer, the original definition of a liberal - meaning evolving interpretation to the constitution in that all personal civil rights/liberties are valid and should be protected - but I'm not sure hate speech should be.
For me, it's about protection of civil liberties rather than promotion of them - there's a difference.
Anyway, enough ramble this evening from me - thanks for your thoughts :)
I too believe that both parties - Trigger Happy
[ In Reply To ..]
are blocking each other and truly out of spite. The only time one side gets roughed up by something unethical is if it is the other side doing it and yet when their own side is....you can hear a pin drop it is so silent. Republicans and Democrats are just different cheeks of the same butt and until we all realize that...things are never gonna get better!! Both parties got us into this mess and both parties continue to keep us in this mess.
I'm particularly a fan of Dave. Video inside explains it all - I hope he'll run :-)
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Love this guy. Do you think we can one day have a candidate like him?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZARAldXlSyA
Yes, From The Common Sense Party? :) - Research Further
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Hahaha - I wish we would - thanks for that, I'd forgotten that movie, that was awesome
This is my favorite movie of all time!! - ZvilleMT
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How I wish this were a real person and not a movie character! I do believe there are good people out there who would really work to save the right things, like homeless shelters, but I think by the time those people actually get to DC, they've become so hardened, selfish, and dependent - just like the guys that brought Dave in to the WH.
There are a lot of governors, reps, and senators that I like (Tim Scott, Rob Portman, Bobby Jindal), but I can't come close to saying "He/She has my vote!" I do like Colin Powell - I would vote for him no matter which party he ran under. I also like Dennis Kucinich, but I'm pretty sure he won't make another run. Other than that, I just don't know at this point. I do know it'll be an interesting year or so watching who emerges to throw their hats in the ring :)
Me too - The Sarge - sm
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I'm the one who actually posted that. Why can't we have good people like that run for real.
I actually like Allen West. I really wish we would get anyone without the name Bush or Clinton. Thought we were finally done with them.
I think there are a lot of good people, but when you hear people are donating millions into someone's campaign to buy them the seat it does worry. Anyone with good ideas, good plans, things that would help everyone in the country they get mowed over by people who have received millions from donors and they promise people all this free stuff (vote me me and I'll give you a free tank of gas or a free phone or whatever).
It will be interesting. Another one last election I heard was a good person is Mitch Daniels (truthfully can't tell you anything about him, but heard he was a decent person). Also like Elizabeth Warren.
Should be interesting and I hope there are some good candidates out there.
Just because the last name isn't popular doesn't mean the candidate should be disregarded - sm
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I am a liberal, but I respect Jeb. He has much more class, common sense, restraint, and intelligence that his brother George.
I predict he will be the Republican presidential candidate, and IMO he is the best Republican candidate. His resume is inclusive of many things the Republican Party needs to reach out to a spectrum of voters.
Having said that, I'm hoping as a Democrat the Republicans in their primaries disagree with me.
I don't think shutting down a bridge is a good thing ever - sm
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And this kind of thing does not go on every day. If you really dig deep into all the Christie tentacles you'll come up with all kinds of instances of overreach and misuse of power. If he enters the primaries, they will all surface, but for now, they are just in the background.
My prediction is he will not run. He's way too dirty.
Thank you, I'll Check It Out :) - Research Further
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That's disappointing to hear, after he essentially told his own party to back off about the presidential election, he had a hurricane to deal with, but not too surprising. I mean, he is a politician, and he is in the land of the Sopranos ;)
Before anyone gets upset with that remark, just a little joke - actually, I'm the type of person that waits for absolute proof that someone is guilty - which includes Obama with the NSA and IRS situations and Christie with Bridgegate.
Neither situation "appears" to look good for either, but it also looks like the sun goes around the earth and we now know THAT'S not true :)
Although from what you're saying, there's more than that going on, I'll check it out.
And in fact, it is possible administrations/cabinets knew but the president or governor didn't - I need a smoking gun, I guess, but I'll check it out, when I get a chance.
I think this kind of thing goes on more than people want to think about, actually.
My fiancé's from Detroit - between the politicians, the car companies and the unions and their inability to compromise and stop violently threatening/sabotaging each other, that city fell and it fell hard.
There's a reason he'd die before he'd ever vote for Romney, let's put it that way.
This is why I liked Lee Iacocca as well - though initially fired from Ford (with the Pinto used as an excuse, but it was also they refused to change some key things that would've helped the company change direction during a recession).
When at Chrysler, he took the famous pay cut to $1 - of course receiving stock dividends that year, and considering the turnaround, he actually probably made more, but it was earned profit for turning the business around, as it should be.
He also cut executive pay, and though would not bend to particularly violent/sabotaging union threats, he still took a look at their salaries and did a market analysis of a fair rate and raised them accordingly - and he turned that business around.
I also like him because he wasn't afraid in the book, I mentioned, "Where Have All the Leaders Gone", to criticize GWB as a Republican himself, he was horrified by him - but I guess he can, he's Lee Iacocca.
People have often misquoted that passage for Obama, regarding the NSA and the IRS - but it was published in 2007 and it was about George W Bush abusing his executive powers with being directly responsible for the Patriot Act.
However, if we find that if that Obama is guilty of the same infractions, the same will apply for him as well - it's just a shame no one penalized Bush for the same thing.
P.S. Taking Responsibility Would Be a Plus - Research Further
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One more thing - LI also took responsibility for the failure of the Pinto, though he actually had no hand in the design.
However, he did sign off on it despite admitted reservations - but he took on responsibility for the whole failure, as good leaders actually do.
I'd like to see just one "leader" today do that. Say, "Ya know what, I screwed up. I should've done this instead. I'm sorry" and take the consequences.
Lee was fired over it (as well as over rifts with the Ford family, who wouldn't budge to change during a recession), but he also learned from that failure, was hired later by Chrysler, and turned that company around (during his time there at least).
One thing I will say about Obama, though I'm confused by him as of late, it that like Iacocca, his admittance of a mistake in life, his drug usage and turning his life around into success afterwards should be commended, not ridiculed.
I don't condone usage of drugs of any kind - I won't even take an aspirin unless I have to.
However, anyone who learns from failure or poor choices in life, admits to them openly and improves themselves as a result deserves kudos for doing so, in my opinion.
I just wish he'd be a little more forthcoming about his political choices sometimes now;)
Oh, but they have penalized Bush and still do - Truthhurts
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The hate for Bush and blaming Bush for all troubles caused by the current administration is disgusting, to put it mildly.
People have misquoted plenty of passages from all Republicans, not just Bush, Palin, and Romney.
One of the most famous misquoted of Palin is the "I can see Russia from my house." It's still echoed today, yet she NEVER, EVER said it. Romney's speeches, too, have been misquoted more than truthful by the media and liberals.
Yet, Obama's misquotes are not misquotes. Most are verified by videos from the time he ran for Senator until today.
Blaming Bush for the deficit and the crash is something that really gets me peeved. You won't find anyone who hated Bush look up the actual numbers or the actual facts, but they're out there in black-and-white. The causes and reasons for the housing bubble and the crash infuriates me not only because he wasn't responsible for it but Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, and Frank Raines are the cause along with the Democrats because they ruled the roost for two years before the crash and they could have stopped it back in 2003-2007.
Sorry, didn't mean to go off on one side and I know I'm going get slammed for the above paragraphs, but that's okay. I no longer care. I'm used to it.
As for your question on the candidates, I have no favorite at this time because none of them have really come out and stated they may run from either side. It's all just speculation by the media.
No Single President By Himself Could Be To Blame - Research Further
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...no single person in government is that powerful. Or at least they shouldn't be that powerful. If he/she is, they got to go, regardless of party ;)
And the deficit has gone on longer than anyone can even pinpoint, but well before Bush or Obama - it's just gotten worse after the actions of both, in my opinion.
Just responding to this to let you to know we all have our "pet peeves" and there's no need to apologize - there's a difference between expressing frustration and hatred.
For instance, I have my own (perhaps overly) vehement frustration about George W. Bush (and Jeb) due to some inequities I saw personally regarding their handling of the hurricanes, while living in the region - which means I'm probably still too emotionally close to that issue to be helpful to anyone and should shut up about it;)
But I still don't hate him (or anyone), but I'm probably still a little pissed, that's true.
And yet I can still say I don't envy their decisions, couldn't do their job if my life depended on it, and one thing I'll say positive is that I admire how GWB conducted himself on 9/11, a strong reassuring voice was needed, at that time.
For the record, as a commenter stated above, I DO think Jeb is the most decent of the Bush clan, actually - also a bit more environmentally conscious than his dad or brother.
My only real issue with Jeb I do want people to know, if I can have a second...
I just wish instead of him begging on the national news for private donations from taxpayers who'd already paid their taxes, during those hurricanes, he'd have gotten the attorney general to go after and prosecute the price gougers for $100,000 an offense crime, as they initially promised they would.
Even if they wanted to or had transportation, no one could afford to leave, especially after a third hurricane - even in Florida, they were charging $350 per roach-infested motel room a night, $5.00 a gallon for gas, $5.00 a gallon for water, etc. - for the days leading up to, during and after each hurricane for weeks - and no one did a thing about it, despite promises.
They asked us to take a picture of the prices and send in receipts, but I never heard a word nor were reimbursed (at least by the time I left in 2006).
If they had, our state wouldn't have needed to beg for money or raise taxes - $100,000 a pop would've more than covered the recovery.
I wish they'd stopped utility companies from tripling our bill, despite already receiving massive amounts of government assistance, claiming we had to help "recoup their losses".
However, if any of my neighbors and friends took the measly $500 of government assistance to help with these rising costs, they had to pay it back on their state taxes that same year (which is why we didn't take it, we needed a full refund).
There were federal breaks given on federal taxes for Mississippi, Alabama and Louisiana for years after Katrina, but panhandle Florida got a one-year tax break, despite Katrina being our third hurricane and we were already economically broken from two prior hurricanes, and it's not exactly a thriving area anyway.
I wish that they'd gone after all insurance companies that cancelled policy holders immediately, or the carpetbaggers that promised to fix people's roofs, but instead took off with their money.
So in just that way, he wasn't much different than his brother, when it came to looking the other way, on white-collar crime, wrongfully assuming it would "stimulate the economy" if they did.
As far as consequences for GWB, I guess I meant actual impeachment for abusing his executive powers as well - if we're gonna impeach Obama for abusing his executive powers, we should've impeached Bush for the Patriot act too, IMO.
But perhaps enough is enough and we should really set a precedent before politicians become to used to us allowing this ...before the next president, regardless of party, sits on his throne and states glibly "let them eat cake" ;)
And just wait to see what comes out of the - Clinton closet.
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Maybe more dead bodies??
Ew, But Wouldn't Surprise Me Either, Actually - Research Further
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Yeah, much like The Sarge said, I'd also kinda like to see the last of the Bush and Clinton dynasties just...go away.
I'm not a fan of Bill, at least, mostly because of NAFTA - the beginning of this outsourcing nonsense, later pushed by GWB heavily in 2006.
But I assume you're referring to Benghazi.
I have a different sort of opinion. Though I have empathy for the lives lost there, of course, there's also a certain amount of military/government operations we can dig so far into that we can end up compromising national security, if we do.
And if we were so interested in uncovering military/CIA operations, why didn't we do it during Geoge H. Bush's career, when he was CIA director, then president?
Especially with his "Peek-A-Boo" support of Manuel Noriega, a known drug-runner on the CIA payroll in 1976, off again, then on again in 1982-83 and praised by the Reagan/Bush administration until we deposed him in 1989?
How many civilian lives and young soldiers' lives were lost under the guises of "stopping communism", all the while helping drugs run throughout Latin America and the U.S., which ended even MORE lives?
Boy, those Bush boys sure do get away with...well, murder...don't they?
But my dislike of my least favorite president, GWB, goes much further - if you'd lived in the Hurricane Katrina region at the time, as I did, you might feel the same
Dead Bodies - sm
[ In Reply To ..]
Actually, by commenting on the Clinton closet, I was referring to things swept under the rug or put in the closet during the Clinton presidency.
The Benghazi tragedy speaks for itself and Hillary will be paying for that disgusting comment for the rest of her life. I actually do not believe she meant ill will toward anyone, it just came across that way. If someone can't control their feelings or actions and instead comes across as callous, cold and heartless, there is no place for them in the White House IMO. And the lying, no place for that at all. She lied right to the faces of the victims' families while standing next to the president. Benghazi is deeply troubling to me and I wait for accountability.
As far as the Bushes, yes, it's time to move on.
I've read some of your other posts about your fiance from Detroit. I hail from there as well and worked at FOMOCO right out of high school. Unfortunately, I could not make a career there because I kept getting laid off due to the first "energy crunch" under Carter. Lee Iacocca was very well liked in Dearborn. The Mustang was his baby!! I remember when it made it's debut.
I disagree with your fiance 100% about the reasons for the downfall of Detroit, but will leave that for another time, or never really. I don't live anywhere near there anymore and it's a very, very touchy subject on many levels with many layers and racial overtones that cannot be avoided. I will just say the unions were only part of the problem.
Actually, I'd Like To Hear More:) - Research Further
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About Detroit - my boyfriend and I are separate individuals, and I try to listen to all perspectives to gain a balanced perspective - so I promise, I won't be offended. I welcome different opinions to stay informed. :)
I can't promise others here won't be, but I for one am listening:)
Sorry about misunderstanding what you meant, by the way :/
I guess I didn't really explain specifics about my fiance's opinion, much, but you actually might agree, at least in part, I'm not sure - see what you think.
I should've stated that he agreed with Romney's "Let them go bankrupt", at that point, as a federal government bailout would've put us further in debt.
However, he also felt that Romney family members sat on the board of those car companies could've done more, before that.
At least those at the heads of the unions of the car companies, at that time, were nasty individuals, I think we all know that, and didn't leave executives much choice but to start moving the plants to cheaper locations in the US (but they didn't need to go to Mexico, in my opinion - sorry).
So in that since, the union cut their own throats by being overly demanding and just plain scary. Unfortunately, once again, the most obnoxious elite spoke for the whole union, who were probably mostly comprised of people just wanting to do their job.
But from what I understand, the executives could've pulled a Lee Iacocca too and didn't - am I wrong about that?
I think some things differ by region or personal experience - for instance, southern democrats love the second amendment and are a bit tougher on crime.
As such, the only experience with unions is in my southern state, where they were extremely necessary at one time, during the coal-mining wars.
Other than Eisenhower sending those troops to Arkansas to ensure desegregation, this is the only other time I approved with federal-to-state intervention, besides the initial reasons for the Civil War.
Local law enforcement was completely corrupt, here, paid off by the coal-mining companies; they were literally guns for hire for the coal-mining companies, houses were burned down, etc. This is why this state loves the second amendment, even Democrats - self-defense.
The workers lived in company houses with no running water, sometimes no heat and no benefits after the workers developed black lung - the government needed to step in, at that time, temporarily, and a union was sorely needed.
But again, sometimes well-meaning people and well-meaning organizations grow too large, too corrupt, and government-interventions meant to be short-term or temporary solutions end up being chronic problems, over time.
Not a good thing for discussion. - Please trust me.
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It's a very, very volatile subject for a lot of people and I absolutely will not state any more of my opinion here, but I can make a few suggestions for reading material. There is some recent information about the following, but most of what I know goes back a few decades. Read up on Jimmy Hoffa, Mayor Coleman Young and city pensions. BTW, the tenure of George Romney as Governor of Michigan was one of the most successful times in the history of the state. Detroit, at one time, was the richest city in the nation. Like I said earlier, there are many, many layers of history here and a lot of blame to go around.
Okay, I Feel Ya - Thank You - Research Further
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I edited my post to say "but I'm not sure about others here" - not sure if it was before you responded.
Okay, I'll "research further" (har har har - pun totally intended).
He actually met Jimmy Hoffa, as a child, and it was not a good experience we'll just say.
He is a huge fan of Coleman Young, though, and I've read some, but I'll read more
Well that's enough reading material assignments for me, for one day. I don't want to hog the forum, either.
I just I don't like to ignore direct responses either. Ya know, that are from reasonable people.
Thanks again
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