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Tea-party idea in Oklahoma: Form a militia

Posted: Apr 14, 2010

Originally published April 13, 2010 at 10:05 PM | Page modified April 13, 2010 at 10:11 PM

Frustrated by recent political setbacks, tea-party leaders and some conservative members of the Oklahoma Legislature say they would like to create a volunteer militia to help defend against what they say are improper federal infringements on state sovereignty.

By SEAN MURPHY and TIM TALLEY

The Oklahoman

OKLAHOMA CITY — Frustrated by recent political setbacks, tea-party leaders and some conservative members of the Oklahoma Legislature say they would like to create a volunteer militia to help defend against what they say are improper federal infringements on state sovereignty.

Tea-party leaders say they've discussed the idea with several supportive lawmakers and hope to introduce legislation next year to recognize a new volunteer force. They say the unit would not resemble militia groups that have been raided for allegedly plotting attacks on law-enforcement officers.

In response, state Republican leaders say supporters of a militia have no place in the GOP.

In a phone interview with Politico.com, state Republican Party Chairman Gary Jones said the tea-party activists are talking about forming a militia only because "they are trying to make themselves out to be bigger than they are."

"A lot of these people don't care about being the majority, they just want a megaphone. They want a voice," Jones said. "Once they get a reporter to cover a story they have a megaphone, and they get pretty loud."

Jones insisted that Oklahoma Republicans will not follow this "small faction within the party."

"They're going to look back and see there are not a whole lot of folks following them in this direction," he said.

Discussions have been exploratory. Even proponents say they don't know how an armed force would be organized nor how a state-based militia could block federal mandates. Critics also say the force could inflame extremism and that the National Guard already provides for the state's military needs.

"Have they heard of the Oklahoma City bombing?" said Joseph Thai, a University of Oklahoma constitutional-law professor. The state will observe the 15th anniversary of the anti-government attack Monday. Such actions could "throw fuel in the fire of radicals," he said.

But the militia talks reflect the frustration of some grass-roots groups seeking new ways of fighting federal initiatives, such as the recently enacted health-care law, which requires all citizens to have health insurance.

In strongly conservative states such as Oklahoma, some legislators also have discussed further action to fight federal policies, such as state legislation and lawsuits.

State Sen. Randy Brogdon, R-Owasso, a candidate for governor who has appealed for tea-party support, said proponents of a state militia have talked to him and that he believes it would be authorized under the Second Amendment.

The Founding Fathers "were not referring to a turkey shoot or a quail hunt. They really weren't even talking about us having the ability to protect ourselves against each other," Brogdon said. "The Second Amendment deals directly with the right of an individual to keep and bear arms to protect themselves from an overreaching federal government."

State militias clearly are authorized constitutionally, but have not been used in recent times, said Glenn Reynolds, a University of Tennessee law professor. "Whether someone should get a militia to go toe-to-toe with the federal government ... now, that strikes me as kind of silly," he said.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2011597694_teamilitia14.html

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I was reading this just now and was going to post it - Unbelievable

[ In Reply To ..]
It's a shame that crazies take advantage of antiquated language in our constitution.

What makes you think our constitution is antiquated? - nm

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

More to the point, what makes you think this particular part - is not

[ In Reply To ..]
If you think these are times where you should get a militia together and go against the national government, then I don't know what to say. Give it a shot....pun intended. lol

You don't think the people have a right to stand up against - their government? WOW!

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

You think they should get guns and start a war with them? - WOW

[ In Reply To ..]
I didn't say one thing about anything other than a militia. Stop being stupid.

What do you think a militia is for? - nm

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

More importantly, why do you think we no longer have - them

[ In Reply To ..]
x

Where have you been? We have always had them...do - your homework...I have...

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

yeah, watch out for the NATIONAL - guard

[ In Reply To ..]
If you want to talk about private militias, unorganized, etc. you're barking up the wrong tree. There is no comparison.

"Private militias" are what helped fight the revolutionary - war....duh! nm

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

DUH! That was then, we're talking about - NOW

[ In Reply To ..]
aren't we? That's the whole point.

Point? What's the difference between then and now? You think govt - has become LESS intrusive? nm

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

What are you saying? It appears you are saying that - you believe

[ In Reply To ..]
a state should form a militia and bear arms in opposition of the US Government. If that's what you're saying, then I say go for it. Group consequences notwithstanding, you'll be lucky if your neighbor doesn't shoot you before you can get out the door.

You actually think neighbors don't feel the same way? Mine - do...they believe in freedom

[ In Reply To ..]
The National Guard WAS intended for the militia of each state....some folks just have never read or bothered to understand their history or what this country was about in the first place.

If a founding father of our country said DON'T TRUST YOUR FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, then it goes without saying those with half a brain should understand why he was saying that and why he adamantly stood up for citizens concealing and having fire arms. Why did he want them to have fire arms...not to kill a coyote for heaven sakes...to have a way to stand up against their govt if need be!

Of course, if push did come to shove, who would be the cowards? The ones saying what fools those with guns are, while they coward in the corners hoping those with fire arms could protect them!! LOL

Right....... your whole state will back you, and - no one in any

[ In Reply To ..]
other state will come after you either. Dream on

Why would another state want to come after us? - Do tell....

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

Try it and - see

[ In Reply To ..]
Read about what has happened since 1983 with this mindset. Then, try it and see.

National Guard was to protect its state....why do you think - that was? sm

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

What, like the group that was just arrested? nm - They are terrorists! nm

[ In Reply To ..]
.

In that case..... - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
The "private" standing army/militia that volunteered with their own firearms (not military) to fight for the freedoms of this country went "freely" to fight for their country's liberties..... gee..... they must have been terrorists!

JUST because your govt tells you to do something, doesn't mean it is right or even legal! Some of our cops are criminals (look at latest student beaten nearly to death by rogue cops) and no doubt will not be properly punished; who do you think needs to stand up to see that they do? The common citizens. Don't forget...the government, federal and local, is supposed to work for us, not the other way around. They are not supposed to be allowed to just do whatever and we're suppose to go along with it.

Sometime people are just so fed up and since their govt isn't going to do a darn thing, they stand up for themselves.

Everyone who acts out isn't doing it for the right reason....we all know that....but that doesn't mean MANY citizens haven't gotten to a point in this country that they FINALLY get it! Our free civil liberties are being run over and they are sick and tired of it. Since our government has become tyrannical in its actions and does not listen to its citizens, that's when people decide to stand up and against these things.

Look at top post about George Washington. He got it!

Every state has a right to defend itself against - government.......sm

[ In Reply To ..]
I'm always amazed at how some folks get all rialed up over something as simple as a state saying they will not have FEDERAL government force something down their throats that THE STATE ultimately will have to pay for and they CANNOT pay for it! Are people actually so ignorant that they believe money grows on trees? States cannot have mandated healthcare crammed down their throats, only to be told THEY will ultimately have to pay for it (the government will only pay for a limited time and then they are on their own). States know they cannot pay for this; heck, they can't cover the Medicaid they are forced to pay for. They end up cutting education, emergency services, etc. just to cover things the government has pushed on them.

I'm glad to see states standing up and saying no. Someone hears "militia" and they get all goofy as if they is wrong. There is a reason our constitution allows us to bears arms. Does anyone ever read it? It was to protect ourselves against government becoming TOO strong and powerful. Our founding fathers got what it was to be a free people, for each state to regulate themselves...not the government.

Amen.... - nm

[ In Reply To ..]
.

Try it .... - Can you

[ In Reply To ..]
imagine? ROFL, you guys are nuts.

You don't believe every state has a right to defend itself - against federal rule? nm

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

Do you believe a state should get guns and start a - war

[ In Reply To ..]
Where do you think that would go these days eh?

Read your constitution....it would go a long ways to - stop government rule....nm

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

Right............ - lol

[ In Reply To ..]
Go ahead then.

Are you one of these people that actually believe government - is supposed to rule you? nm

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

It's about a militia and guns - no one said a - word

[ In Reply To ..]
about anything else. Understand?

Huh? Sure it's about something else....what do you do with - militias and guns? nm

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

hmmmm, one track mind eh? - figures

[ In Reply To ..]
x

Heaven only knows what you're talking about.... - by all means....enlighten

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

If you can't understand that it's not the day and age - where

[ In Reply To ..]
it would make sense for a state to form a militia and challenge the US Government, what more is there to say?

GO FOR IT!!!!

If your comment made any sense then ... - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
Why are other countries falling apart while their citizens are rioting in their streets because the GOVERNMENT has failed their citizens? Look at Greece and that is only the beginning.

Government ran countries DO NOT WORK!

States have militias....doesn't yours?
It's sad to hear that you do not believe you should challenge your governemnt; that would mean you believe you should be told what to do, how to do it, how to think, what to do think, by your government. Why is that?

Other than those mooching off my taxes why would anyone want to make government bigger? It doesn't work for those of us that actually do work.

Okay, go ahead - the argument is not whether - you have a right

[ In Reply To ..]
It's whether you're stupid enough to go that route. I say do it. Put your money where your mouth is. Read all about it...it's only right wing extremists, so are you a right-wing extremist? (insert appropriate term here).

http://www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/militia_m.asp?xpicked=4&item=19

Wow, according to the MODERATOR,that wing-nut comment - could get you banned... nm

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

What "route" are you suggesting? - nm

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

An - arm

[ In Reply To ..]
bearing militia to oppose the US government is the route being spoken of. Why did you need that restated?

Oh my what a silly response - can't - you follow

[ In Reply To ..]
a string? The subject matter was the method, not the cause.

It is about whether a state-approved armed militia should be formed to fight the US government. There was not one word said about whether you should defend at all.

You have trouble following a line of thought don't you?

Someone explain to me - Pinko

[ In Reply To ..]
why it would be necessary to raise arms in a democracy? A DEMOCRACY for crying out loud.

Leave the drama out of politics, we all would be better off for it.

Our country is a republic...just FYI - nm

[ In Reply To ..]
.

Too bad the USA is a republic and not a democracy - Trigger Happy

[ In Reply To ..]
In a Republic, the sovereignty resides in the people themselves, whether one or many. In a Republic, one may act on his own or through his representatives as he chooses to solve a problem. Further, the people have no obligation to the government; instead, the government being hired by the people, is obliged to its owner, the people.

seems to me that - Pinko

[ In Reply To ..]
you are trying to reason a way to war. In a republic through democracy there is voting and public discourse. That is the way disagreements should be handled and the way the country should be governed. Advocating violence as a means of governing is hardly republican and usually bandied about by those who have never seen war up close and personal, nor has the foresight to think ahead of the damages it would cause to the country as a whole, not to mention our standing as a country globally.

Who would rally around such a thing?

It would be nice if - Trigger Happy

[ In Reply To ..]
disagreements could be handled that way but we have our president bribing, for a lack of a better word, politicians to vote for things they would not have voted for without the bribe. We have politicians who aren't listening to their constituents. The people who are supposed to be representing us...aren't. They are representing themselves and their own pockets. That is the problem. Our government is supposed to work for us....not the other way around.

It amazes me that so many of you people don't get that. If your government doesn't work for you, you have a right to stand up to that government. That is what our country was founded on. If you can't stand up to your government...that is more of a dictatorship. You do what your government tells you, you can't own weapons, and if you stand up for yourself....you will be shut up one way or another.

Obviously you think our founding fathers didn't know what they were talking about and were terrorists themselves, huh?

please - Pinko

[ In Reply To ..]
change your moniker to DRAMA.

You don't like it, vote it out. Standing up to government is standing up against your own people. You speak as if it is a separate entity.

One would think by the vein of this discussion, that you like to bully your way through to people, the very same thing you are accusing our standing president of doing.

Then you should change your moniker to DENIAL - Trigger Happy

[ In Reply To ..]
Your reasoning that I am against my people because I disagree with this administration is absolutely absurd. I'm standing up for my people trying to keep the government from taking over more and more of our lives. I'm not raging a war here. I'm merely trying to let this administration know that they are hurting us....not helping us and so far they aren't listening....therefore they need to be voted out of office.

The majority of politicians are out for no one but themselves...that is a problem. I just don't understand how you cannot see that.

Use some common sense here....we cannot buy our way out of debt. We cannot afford to rob from the rich and give to the poor because eventually the rich will have nothing for us to steal from them.

Our country is leading in a direction that rewards laziness and punishes hard work and achievement.

I still don't understand why you are personally attacking me and saying I want to start a war when I merely pointed out that we are not a democracy. That is a fact...read your history books.

Yes I am reasoning - Pinko

[ In Reply To ..]
that when you make statements such as "taking arms up against the govt" what you are really saying is that you are willing to take up arms against your fellow citizens. What do you think that statement means?

Taking up arms against a govt that the citizens voted in is taking arms against your fellow citizens, which is to say that you would have no problem killing your neighbor, potentially members of your own family, or that young child up the street who hasn't even had time to form a political opinion yet.

You have no idea how dangerously inflammatory such statements are, nor does it seem to me that you care.

That type of behavior disgusts me.

Why would I trust an opinion from a person who implies such?

Why would I be so foolish as to think that such a brain who processes in this manner have anything truly viable to say or contribute to the process of a republic, sans democracy, other than to be foot guards on the front line of foolish and false revolution?

BINGO! (sm) - Nikki

[ In Reply To ..]

That's why I asked Trigger Happy if she owned any guns. She's an admitted Tea Partier, and with the talk about militias and guns, I wondered if she would go that far if her "group" told her to. There were responses to my post, indignant that anyone could think such a thing.

I wonder how many others on this board who are defending this kind of behavior also fall into that category.

Now I'm wondering if I should purchase a firearm to protect myself against some of my fellow citizens who will not accept a legal election where a black man was elected. There is too much of a racial overtone in the Tea Party to be merely a coincidence, and criticism of Obama on this board began before he was even elected President.

They're really no better than al Qaeda, in my opinion.

Your post nailed it! Thank you.

You people are unbelievable. - Trigger Happy

[ In Reply To ..]
I agree with a lot of what the tea party is about. I own a gun. I'm a conservative. So now you have stereotyped me as a nut wing tea bagger who wants Obama dead because he is black and I'm racist and violent. You people are so delusional I can't help but laugh. If you truly knew me, you'd know how far off you are about me. I'm about the most non-violent person there is. I've never been in a fist fight. I've never shot and killed ANYTHING...including animals. However, I did squish a bug with my shoe yesterday...I'm sure that makes me a terrorists, huh? LOL!

Nah, just Shoe Happy. - :P

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

Bravo. Down for the count. - nm

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

I don't believe I said - Trigger Happy

[ In Reply To ..]
"taking up arms against the govt." When I say to take a stand, I mean vote out those politicians who are spending like crazy and refusing to listen to their constituents. Please show me one place where I said we should all take our gun, pitch forks, torches, and storm Washington to get the black man out of the White House. I never have and I never will.

As for going after my fellow citizens when we voted for this administration....obviously you have been living in a cave or putting your head in the sand because even those people who voted for Obama have admitted to regretting that decision and they are even included in the group of people who are against Obamacare.

I believe a state as the right to stand up to our govt. In standing up, I mean using legal actions stating Obamacare is unconstitutional. When I say stand up, I mean vote out the politicians who are crooks and more concerned about their pockets than whether they screw the country or not.

How does that make me violent and how in the he11 does that suggest I want to kill my neighbors? How does that even suggest I've racist as Nikki has suggested below.

So how about this...my son's best friend at school is Mexican. I have good friends of mine who are African American. So obviously I'm a huge racist and hate all races but white people.

You guys have taken the stereotype of loons and have placed it on all conservatives and that just isn't right. I am not a terrorist. I don't wish death upon anyone. I haven't declared war against this administration...although I will vote them out as soon as I can.

So again...explain how that makes me a bigotted, racist, conservative terrorist?

You might want to take a look at the content of the - thread

[ In Reply To ..]
it was about the state-approved militia to protect against the Federal government.

I refer you to above post "George Washington".... - enlightening

[ In Reply To ..]
In order to keep a democracy, sometimes it is necessary to raise arms.

Be careful what you wish for - Pinko

[ In Reply To ..]
You're assuming positive outcome.

I wish for MUCH LESS government....would rather take a stand - than just "go along"....nm

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

no one suggested - Pinko

[ In Reply To ..]
you "go along". Doesn't seem to me that you are "going along" with much, but one has to question the misdirected energy in an attempt of forging a different direction.

By not taking a stand, you are going along.....we need to forge - a different direction!

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

stand away - Pinko

[ In Reply To ..]
just leave your guns at home.

It truly amazes me - SM

[ In Reply To ..]
that you people are more terrified of conservatives with opposing points of view than you appear to be of Muslim terrorists...and yes I called them Muslim terrorists. Extremists who are he11 bent against blowing us all up in the name of Allah and yet you are more worried because I don't want government controlling my healthcare and OMG..I own a gun. Please excuse me while I roll my eyes.

hardly - Pinko

[ In Reply To ..]
ignorant conservatives are an annoyance but certainly not scared of them. Guess what? Liberals own guns too. Yup, more than one here.

Govt doesn't control anything we don't give them permission too. Wonder why it is you can't wrap your brain around that one.

Just too easy to point fingers isn't it?

Boo!

Where did you get this idea? - Just curious

[ In Reply To ..]
I don't recall reading anywhere that anyone is more afraid of you wielding your gun in the name of small government than they are of Muslim terrorists. The mindset is the same, but you pale in comparison.

Go on and get yourself killed. It's your life. Although, everyone knows you and all the rest are nothing but big-talkers. It's quite humorous actually.

What are you afraid of? - nm

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

clowns, heights and - Pinko

[ In Reply To ..]
pantyhose.

Who says that you have to go to war - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
to stand up to our government? If many states fight this healthcare and state that it is unconstitutional to MAKE people have health insurance, etc.....you don't think that would make a difference? We aren't talking about charging the white house with our pitch forks and torches and lynch our president here. We are talking about standing up to him and using our politicians to speak for us and those who continue to ignore us and refuse to listen to us....they will be voted out. We cannot continue to let this administration spend money like it grows on trees. We should have gone over Bush and told him to knock off the spending as well but a lot of people didn't realize how bad it was until everything collapsed on us. Now more people are paying attention to what is going on at the White House and they don't like what they see.

It is my personal opinion that we need to get people in Washington who have owned or managed a business because these lawyers we've got running this country don't know crap about being financially sound and successful.

Exactly! Some people just don't get it! Sadly enough - nm

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

no business people - Pinko

[ In Reply To ..]
legislative people, governing people. People with vision, patience, and integrity.

Just because one knows about business, doesn't mean they know how to do it well, not does that translate into being better at governing.

Business has ran Washington for 30 years. Don't really see the benefits there. Don't really see how repeating the same mistakes and expecting different results to be a good idea.

Then that would mean NO LAWYERS....they only pad - their pockets as well....nm

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

Can you say teahadists? - nm

[ In Reply To ..]
.

You can't call Muslim Terrorists - SM

[ In Reply To ..]
Muslim terrorists but now you have a name for a group of people who the majority of them have not been violent.

You people amaze me. You would much rather government take over our lives and tell us how to live our lives than for us to say we are taking a stand to keep that from happening? That is just nuts! Give me liberty or give me death!!

Some people actually believe the government is there to "tell" - them what to do...they are clueless!!

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

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Perhaps they should link it directly to Social Security. make the plan optional, but if you decided against participation in the reform plan, you are automatically dropped from future Social Security payments. If you are so dead certain that health care reform is socialism, you can make your stand by not taking social security. ...

Nov 09, 2012
Those with the ability to think on their own will understand what destruction Obama's communist ideology is steering us towards full throttle. THE BOARD COMMUNISTS WILL NOT CARE, nor will that Obama "meme's", as they have proven repeatedly. If the term communist offends you, too bad; at least have the guts to own the title of what you believe. If not, rethink your ideology. Communist Goals (1963) Documention bel ...

Aug 20, 2015
The only question remaining for Hillary is whether she will serve time in prison or be granted house confinement. ...

Mar 12, 2011
Since it's freedom of speech for them to protest, let's take the union protestors, since they like to protest so much, and send them to WBC and let them protest for as many days and weeks they did in WI. (I"m kidding, of course). Do you think if a group protested outside their church, standing 1000 feet away from them, that it would be considered freedom of speech? This makes my blood boil. Read with disgust: http://media.pennlive.com/midstate_impact/other/Westboro.PDF ...

Dec 19, 2011
Because of having to change jobs, there is no extra money to buy my parents anything for Christmas. Besides that, they are the hardest people to buy for. If they want it, they buy it, which leaves the rest of us scratching our heads anyway. I am needing a very low cost option for a Christmas idea for my parents. I have 2 children (11 and 5) so I'm thinking something handmade, but not cheesy, from them. Anyone have ANY ideas as I have totally drawn a blank.&nbs ...

Apr 04, 2011
body bone scan? My husband had one a week ago and we're getting a little antsy waiting. TIA! ...

Nov 14, 2012
One that was "ridiculed" by Obama. "The proposal by Mr. Romney, the Republican presidential nominee, was envisioned to help pay for an across-the-board income tax cut, a move ridiculed by President Obama as window dressing to a “sketchy deal.” But many Democrats now see it as an important element of a potential deficit reduction agreement — and one they can claim to be bipartisan." http://www.cnbc.com/id/49803756/ ...