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Some Dems: drive over 'fiscal cliff', then bargin


Posted: Nov 15, 2012

Some Dems: drive over 'fiscal cliff,' then bargain

    WASHINGTON — Some Democrats are pushing an unorthodox idea for coping with the “fiscal cliff”: Let the government go over, temporarily at least, to give their party more bargaining leverage for changes later on.

The idea has plenty of skeptics, and the White House regards it frostily. But it illustrates the wide range of early negotiating positions being staked out by Republicans and Democrats as lawmakers gathered Tuesday for their first postelection talks on how to avoid the looming package of steep tax hikes and program cuts.

Just as brazen, in the eyes of many Democrats, is the GOP leaders’ continued insistence on protecting tax cuts for the rich. President Barack Obama just won re-election, campaigning on a vow to end those breaks.

Democrats and Republicans appear heading toward another round of brinkmanship that will test who blinks first on questions of major importance. It’s a dance that has infuriated many Americans, shaken financial markets and drawn ridicule from foreign commentators.

In late 2010, after big GOP midterm election wins, Obama backed off his pledge to raise taxes on the rich. In the summer of 2011, House Republicans pushed Congress within a hair of refusing to raise the debt ceiling, leading to the first-ever downgrade of the government’s credit rating. And last December, it was the Republicans’ turn to blink, yielding to Obama’s demand to extend a payroll tax break.

The “fiscal cliff” deadline comes in seven weeks. One provision: Unless Congress acts, all Bush-era tax cuts would expire, raising 2013 tax bills for most Americans. Obama wants to end those tax cuts only for households making more than $250,000 a year. Republicans insist on no tax rate increases anywhere.

 

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It's actually not an unorthodox idea, been out there a long time, - just as it's not a "cliff," more

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of a series of speed bumps. That was a very misleading term coined by the Fed Chair to get an obstructive Congress's attention because they were refusing to do anything that might "help Obama get reelected."

We don't actually crash and burn on January 2 if we don't do anything. There IS a risk due to the instability of our economy of further recession, though, so parts that might shake things up worst could be addressed immediately and others left for later. For instance: if our personal income taxes went up on January 1, we wouldn't get the bill until over a year later, during which time various agreements could be reached to keep us from getting too ticked off. Or not. :)

Do you only get paid once a year - Payroll taxes start immediately

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Out of your paycheck. No bill.

While I find this link to be relatively fair in its presentation - of fiscal cliff dynamics

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I have to take major issue with the casual short-shrift claim and uber-centric notion that President Obama "backed off his pledge to raise taxes on the rich" in 2010, after the midterm election. This amounts to a proclamation of a GOP "victory" over an indecisive president who was was somehow swayed into reaffirming fiscally unsound GOP economic policy arguments and assigned credit for the so-called "compromise" to that party. Poppycock.

President Obama devoured a heaping serving of crow served up by legislative lame duck terrorists who held unemployment benefits extension and middle class tax cuts hostage to yet another sickening greed grab by the GOP with policies that had ALREADY been a major player in bringing the national economy to its knees and placing it on life support. They then proceeded to extract their outrageous ransom demands and, in the process, placed the president on the defensive with his base, who turned around and held his feet to the fire for the next two years until the current election results corrected that course.

Tax relief then and overhaul now did and does not belong side-by-side in the same super-bill with unemployment benefits extension, no more than tax cuts for the middle class are bosom buddies with high-income AMT filers tax reform. The GOP has expended any and all mandate "capital" they deluded themselves into believing they had on this issue, especially considering they were doing so when faced with INCONTROVERTIBLE evidence of their policy failures and their dire outcomes.

They've played their last hand in that game and are now tasked with breaking out a crisp new deck of cards on their way back to the poker table. The 2012 election returns have shifted those dynamics against their favor once and for all.

For those reasons, among others, I believe the gauntlet President Obama and democrats have thrown down is reasonable and to be expected. Now that voters have spoken after casting fully informed ballots in favor of expiration of Bush tax cuts for the wealthy while preserving MC cuts, it's the GOP's turn to blink.

I was on UE benefits in 2010 and will NEVER forget "the gift" of stress and grief Congress gave me during that holiday season. This time around, I get to see my sister go through the same thing, as she is now receiving benefits after she was summarily laid off from a job she had held for 22 years behind age discrimination which the hospital somehow found justifiable when they decided NOT to offer her placement in current job openings posted on the HR bulletin board. That said, we both are willing to stand by, watch and take more "lumps" should the GOP decide to push us all over that rim in their predictable, ill-advised and perilous attempts to "stand their ground." Giving into those tactics AGAIN, after ALL we've been through to get to this point where the president and his party have finally seized the upper hand in this issue, is NOT, I repeat, NOT an option.

Basically agree with everything, especially the GOP "policy failures and - their dire outcomes." BTW, Obamacare

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will help remove the hideously expensive insurance incentive for age discrimination, something I'm appreciating more every day.

Does anyone know if we will be able to apply to the state exchanges even if our employer offers a healthcare program? A proactive approach to this sister's situation? If not, with luck my employer will just cancel its program, something I expect a lot of them to do eventually anyway.

They actually got involved in our healthcare to help us get it less expensively, but the time when we should have gotten them out of our personal business came a long time ago.

The Kaiser Foundation was on Washington Journal this morning answering questions - backwards typist

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Their website may give info on that. I believe it goes by income like MedicAid requirements.

Check this site on cost. 

This tool illustrates premiums and government assistance under the health reform law signed by the President. Beginning in 2014, tax credits will be available for people under age 65 who purchase coverage on their own in a health insurance Exchange and are not covered through their employer, Medicare or Medicaid. The tool allows the user to examine the impact at different income levels, ages, family sizes, and regional costs.

Premium calculations are consistent with estimates of premiums under reform prepared by the Congressional Budget Office. CBO projects that average premiums under reform for the same level of coverage for a given group of enrollees would be 7-10% lower than under the status quo. However, in many cases coverage will be more comprehensive and accessible than what is typically available today in the non-group market. As a result, 2014 premiums in the calculator cannot necessarily be compared to what people buying insurance on their own are paying in 2010.

The calculator does not apply to people with coverage available through an employer, where the firm is generally paying for a substantial portion of the insurance premium.

http://healthreform.kff.org/subsidycalculator.aspx

 


from people calling in. Very informative.


Their website gives info on a lot of the changes. The link below deals with your question.


Check this site. This tool illustrates premiums and government assistance under the health reform law signed by the President. Beginning in 2014, tax credits will be available for people under age 65 who purchase coverage on their own in a health insurance Exchange and are not covered through their employer, Medicare or Medicaid. The tool allows the user to examine the impact at different income levels, ages, family sizes, and regional costs.



Premium calculations are consistent with estimates of premiums under reform prepared by the Congressional Budget Office. CBO projects that average premiums under reform for the same level of coverage for a given group of enrollees would be 7-10% lower than under the status quo. However, in many cases coverage will be more comprehensive and accessible than what is typically available today in the non-group market. As a result, 2014 premiums in the calculator cannot necessarily be compared to what people buying insurance on their own are paying in 2010.
The calculator does not apply to people with coverage available through an employer, where the firm is generally paying for a substantial portion of the insurance premium.



http://healthreform.kff.org/subsidycalculator.aspx

Good question. From what I understand, employers - with more than 200 employees are

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required to automatically enroll them in a plan, but employees retain the right to opt out. This at least implies they are free to participate in the exchanges. ACA also assesses a "free rider" penalty for all employees who qualify to receive premium subsidies through the exchanges, which I presume is a mechanism designed to encourage employers to offer more affordable plans that attract participation in employer-sponsored plans. The presumption is that automatic enrollment will enlarge the insurance pool and reduce premium costs. Those same requirements and penalities do not apply to employers with small work forces.

On the age discrimination angle, my sister's situation made me realize some blaring economic contradictions to proposals relative to increasing Medicare and retirement age eligibility criteria. Her layoff occurred 3 years before she would have reached fully-vested status in her retirement pension and she had carefully planned to delay her retirement and application for social security benefits until a few months beyond her 70th birthday to reach that benchmark. She was already beyond full benefits retirement age as defined by Social Security when she was laid off. When she applied for unemployment, her age was NOT an issue and no discussions ensued over her social security eligibility presenting an impediment to receiving benefits, so long as she was conducting an active job search.

In fact, we found out she CAN apply for SS and collect unemployment at the same time, though she is still opting to reach 70 before doing so, in order to collect enhanced benefits at that stage, her primary motivation being she is sole caretaker of her blind spouse (who is 15 years her junior!) and is on full disability.

So here we have a private organization circumventing their own retirement policies to save a few pension pay-out dollars which she earned through 22+ years of loyal service, and passing it along to tax payers in the form of UE benefits, which they accomplished by EEOC law violations prohibiting age discrimination. Oh, BTW, in the 22 years of employment, she made only 2 insurance claims, one for ovarian cyst surgery and the other for JOB-RELATED carpal tunnel correction. Otherwise, she is healthy as a horse, no HBP, diabetes, heart problems, or other high-dollar medical conditions typically associated with so-called high-risk seniors.

With large numbers of boomers living longer and opting NOT to retire, they really do need to address this discrimination problem by making it easier to bring EEOC claims on that basis and stricter enforcement of existing laws. They also need to come up with some new initiatives that address other senior work force issues such as jobs scarcity for that age cohort, re-entry/retraining, career transition, skills enhancement and training programs. The SCSEP program is an excellent start-up model but, quite naturally, its funding cuts have rendered it hopelessly dysfunctional and grossly inadequate in terms of the expanding populations it's supposed to serve.
Really good points. Your poor sister. Mine's sorry - she agreed to early retirement from the
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USPS. She was a mid-level manager and making quite decent money, but there was pressure, mainly in the form of uncertainty--if she didn't accept would she end up with less? (Like being let go maybe.) She went on to get her masters in psychology and become a grief counselor, but guess what's happened to those jobs these days?

The dropping birth rate and a ready supply of trained older workers will force some adjustments of thinking, no doubt. Over time...
What is happening to those jobs? - RC
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Grief counselors? Are they going away? It seems like a field that will always be necessary.
22+ years of working there - and Not invested - strange
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x

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