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Massachusetts could elect senator who supports waterboarding

Posted: Jan 19, 2010

By John Byrne
Monday, January 18th, 2010 -- 9:16 am

The Republican state senator vying to fill the Senate seat recently vacated by the late Sen. Ted Kennedy (D-MA) says he doesn't believe waterboarding -- where a suspect is effectively temporarily drowned -- is torture.

State senator Scott Brown's candidacy has taken Massachusetts by storm and political analysts by surprise. Until recently, Democratic state attorney Martha Coakley was considered a shoe-in for the position. But Massachusetts independents have apparently grown so frustrated with Democrats in Congress, and so tepid on Coakley's candidacy, that they may send a Republican to the Senate who seems to contravene many of the state's apparently liberal ideals.

At a press conference in early January, for example, Brown said that the US should continue to employ waterboarding against terrorist suspects, a technique considered torture for which the US executed Japanese soldiers during World War II.

Speaking of Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, 23, the Nigerian attempted "Christmas bomber," Brown said that the would-be terrorist should be subject to “our rules of engagement and laws of war,’’ and not be tried in civilian courts.

Noted the Boston Globe, "Brown asserted that waterboarding does not constitute torture, but he did not specifically say Abdulmutallab should be subjected to waterboarding.

The remainder of the article can be found at:

http://rawstory.com/2010/01/massachusetts-elect-senator-supports-waterboarding/

;

An opinion piece on Coakley - backwards typist

[ In Reply To ..]
Martha Coakley made a jaw-dropping declaration earlier this week at the only live televised debate in Boston that she has deigned to do. She said, and I quote, â��Iâ��ve traveled the state and met tremendous people.â��â��
If she did, it was under the cover of darkness, with an assumed name.

Because if she had really traveled the state, if she had taken the time to meet voters, Coakley wouldnâ��t be in the position she finds herself in now, heading into the final weekend of this special election campaign in a perilously close race against a GOP state legislator nobody had heard of a mere six months ago.

Back in December, Coakley beat her closest opponent by 19 points in a primary in which she got stronger by the day. She strolled into the general election with high name recognition, strong favorability ratings, and as the Democratic candidate in a state that hasnâ��t elected a Republican to the Senate since 1972. It looked as if it would be impossible to lose.

So what did she do? Apparently, sheâ��s tried to accomplish the impossible.

Read the rest here:

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2010/01/15/race_is_in_a_spinout/

I agree with this article. (sm) - Nikki

[ In Reply To ..]
I think she got sloppy and/or arrogant and figured the seat was hers for the taking. It's her own fault if she loses.

What I don't understand is why people who have leaned Democratic all these years and are liberal leaning would suddenly vote Republican. That's like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Did you read any of the comments? 488 of them. - backwards typist

[ In Reply To ..]
That explains why in most of them. When i read an article, if it's a serious news story, I usually read the comments, too. It sometimes gives more insight into the 5 questions (who,what,where,when,and why).

No, actually, I didn't. Just paged down enough for the article. (sm) - Nikki

[ In Reply To ..]
I've got to leave the computer soon, but if I come back later, I'll go back and read them. Thanks. :-)

I also agree... - TXMT

[ In Reply To ..]
One commentator last night on Hardball said he thought Coakley would rather eat glass than to hit the campaign trail. I also agree with that statement as well as many comments made about her lack of charisma. For voters who place personality over positions on substantive issues, I guess that is important. I still could never cast a vote for a candidate such as Brown in spite of all his charisma and energy because of what he does say on the campaign trail, the stances he takes and his voting record.

I did take a look at the comments, which did not add a lot to the already well publicized national dialog over the past week. The guy who would be content with a â��placeholderâ�� candidate, I have to admit, is showing just about as much enthusiasm for Brown as I have for Coakley, who I view as the lesser of two evils.

I cannot view this election as a referendum on Obama, but rather on party platform. For example, since Massachusetts already has a health care plan in place, I do not believe their reps and Senators can properly represent those of us who live in states which do not, and will not if the opt-in-or-out part manages to survive a final vote. In Texas, Perry only accepts federal funding for such things as rebuilding the Governorâ��s mansion (sort of like golf courses) and not schools, unemployment benefits, bank bailouts and such, then turns around hat in hand and has the utter gall to ask for loans for funds he has already rejected that were offered in TARP and other federal funding. We will never see anything from him that is not self-serving.

The only thing I took away from the comments was that it is perfectly fine when republicans deride Coakley for being the worldâ��s worst campaigner, but when democrats say the same thing, it is dismissed as future spin.

One thing is for sure. It's a nail-biting barnstormer of an election, down to the last minute in the absence of exit polls. What I find most upsetting is the idea that there is a distinct possibility that the only thing left of Ted Kennedy and his 42 years of dedication to health care reform by tomorrow morning may end up being a voice crying in the wilderness to never take an election and its outcome for granted. It's sadder still to think that his party just might sleep through that wake-up call.

Bravo! Very well written. (sm) - Nikki

[ In Reply To ..]

I couldn't agree more with what you wrote! I sometimes feel as if I'm hanging on the outside of the "Democratic ship" by my fingers and am losing my grip. The entire party seems to be in a collective coma.

I was tired of holding my nose and voting for the least worst person running. Still, given the Republicans' allegiance to big banks, health insurance companies, corporate welfare, etc., I could never vote Republican for the reasons I just stated.

Shortly after Obama became President, Jim DeMint said that healthcare reform will be Obama's Waterloo, and the Repubicans have obstructed everything since then. The Democrats have courted Republicans like Olympia Snowe, bowing before her and caving in to concessions she demanded in order to get her vote. Why would they do that when they already had a 60-seat majority? To make it look like there was no partisanship? The American people can clearly see the partisanship happening here, ever since DeMint made his "Waterloo" statement.

It's way past time for the Democrats to grow a spine, IMHO.

Thanks. Without a doubt - TXMT

[ In Reply To ..]
it takes courage to discuss these reality checks, especially in an environment where around every corner there is a "throwing them under the bus" dig. I am hopeful that Obama and Congressional dems will glean their own message out of Massachusetts, remember the platform they ran on and recalibrate their aim at pursuing the agendas that got them elected.

The capacity to be self critical is a strength and not a weakness. This is a test the party cannot afford to fail. Bipartisanship is a lofty goal but the reality is that it ain't happenin'. Time to move on to a post bipartisanship phase and start doing the work of the people who can fire them just as quickly as they can hire them.

As for me, I'll take the lack of spine over the lack of heart any day. BTW, thanks for the support. It's lonely over here on the left side of the universe.

I agree. Please see message. - Nikki

[ In Reply To ..]

It does take courage in this atmosphere to discuss reality checks. I can't continue to defend Democrats when there are obviously problems, like the right continues to defend Republicans no matter what. I hope you're right and that Obama and Congressional Democrats will glean their own message, remember their platform and recalibrate their aim in favor of the American people who voted for them.

I think the only way to "see the light" is to be self-critical, and bipartisanship doesn't appear to be in the future, particularly when the newest Republican senator refers to himself as "41." I really truly hope the Dems will start to get tough and not continue to cave in to every Republican whim. I'm still hoping Obama can turn this ship around.

Your sentence, "As for me, I'll take the lack of spine over the lack of heart any day" was very touching to me and something I couldn't agree with more.

I know what you mean by "the left side of the universe." It gets hard sometimes, especially with the "drive-bys," but I really enjoy your posts. They are extremely well written and well researched, and I learn a lot from them. I hope you keep posting. I'm one of your fans, and I'm sure there are more of us here on this board.

Excellent post, Nikki - Colleen

[ In Reply To ..]
You are right on on every point, as usual!

Good. - I agree with him. nm

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

I support waterboarding for terrorists - Vikefan

[ In Reply To ..]
Why should we be so kind to terrorists who are out to kill us, blow up our planes and our buildings? Which is better? Having a variation of waterboarding or exploding in an airplane?

I've never hit another person in my life but I could imagine taking a swing at Osama bin Laden's head with a baseball bat. I'd hit him so hard at least one of his eyes would pop out.

How are we going to get info out of these terrorists? Offer them tea and a manicure in exchange for information?

How would you feel if someone close to you was on a plane that was blown up by terrorists but it could have been prevented if only the terrorist we captured prior to the event, and treated so nicely, had instead been brutalized and gave up info that would have saved your loved ones' life?

Do you know what happened to our POWs in Viet Nam? Wooden splints driven under their fingernails. They had no end to ways they would torture. No terrorist is going to worry about attacking our country if all that results is getting arrested and put in jail.

I wish the world were all roses and pansies but it's not. As a conservative, I don't even like the death penalty. Obama has a nice fantasy that we can all get along but unfortunately mankind is not like that. It's a sad statement but it's true.

Agree also with waterboarding terrorists.nm - mtt22

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

Would that be alleged terrorists or proven terrorists? - Just curious. nm

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

any SUSPECTED terrorist if it meant saving American - lives! nm

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

As in alleged - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
meaning no formal charges, no trial, no chance to answer charges, present evidence or defense, no representation, no burden of proof, based on speculation and racial profiling, no judicial oversight. Those are the ones you would have tortured without discretion?

To what end? Playing into the hands of the jihadists whose expressed purposes include undermining democracy? Provoking extremists and escalating a two sided unholy war and facilitating jihadist recruitment? Providing justification for more attacks? This will make us safer?

That's not the America I live in. What kind of democracy does that represent and why would anyone in their right mind want to follow that example?

I notice no response from the waterboarding section - Colleen

[ In Reply To ..]
but I just wanted to say that I agree with sm. There was a lot of this happening in Guantanomo (sp?) under Bush's watch. People who were locked up and waterboarded and tortured with no proof.

Baloney as far as the waterboarding. Only a few WERE - and they had records!..get over it.nm

[ In Reply To ..]
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Not true. And as long as innocent people are - Colleen

[ In Reply To ..]
tortured, I will take issue with it. If it were a family member we were talking about, would you be able to "get over it?"

Yes, I would get over it because it is NOT TORTURE! - I doubt I would have a family member

[ In Reply To ..]
waterboarded, but during a necessary interrogation to save thousands, waterboarding a few is not irrational. Tell me, what is YOUR idea to get needed desperate information from an alleged terrorist, huh? -talking sweetly, saying "pretty please", feeding them 3 squares a day with a soft bed and thinking with time, they will talk? Until you have an idea that works, I will still call it an occasional necessity. And dont tell me if we do it, our enemies will be okay with doing it. They would do MUCH worse no matter HOW we interrogated. Common sense... common sense. I hope someday you can find it.

I say waterboard away!! A walk in the park compared to what - our POWs have gone through!! nm

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

Torture is torture, no matter who is on the receiving end. - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
Do as I say and not as I do torture policies. How's that working out back here on planet earth?

You call it torture, some people dont.. YOUR opinion - does not rule the world.nm

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

Mine is only one of many - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
Look up waterboarding on Wiki. Before attacking the source, make note of the 191 references at the bottom. Anyway, the first 6 words ought do it, but if you are up to it, scroll on down and read up on the history and global perspective. Seems like your opinion does not rule the world either.

US prosecuted Japan for waterboarding as a war crime. Bet you agree it was torture and war crime in Viet Nam. You just hold the US above the law. Here's something the world can agree on. That's called hypocrisy.

Wrong. My views are my views, yours are yours. - Reality bites, I know.

[ In Reply To ..]
I am not comparing my current opinion to what happened regarding Japan. I stated how I feel and how MANY others feel. You call it torture. I do not. I am not a hypocrite.. period.. done.. thank you.

I have to say SM - Just Curious

[ In Reply To ..]
I don't feel waterboarding by the U.S. is anywhere near what went on with the Japanese. Their waterboarding techniques were far different than what the U.S. did. They were prosecuted and in many instances executed for the atrocities committed against our soldiers, as well as the Filipinos. Having family there in the PI when it was occupied by the Japanese, and witnessing the war crimes (of which I cannot go into detail about), the U.S. was justified in prosecuting and executing the Japanese for what they did. As far as Vietnam, the U.S. was justified in what they did there too to extract information (a walk in the park, compared to what the VC did to our soldiers).

I don't hold the U.S. above the law, they did what they had to do. I agree with waterboarding, if it will help save hundreds of lives, then so be it.

I guess my question to you would be - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
to please explain how you think US waterboarding tecniques were kinder and gentler simulated drowning than Japanese techniques. Another would be to help me understand better how you have concluded that waterboarding helps save American lives? Please be specific if you can.

How do you feel about the drones? - Just Curious

[ In Reply To ..]
Right now we have U.S. pilotless drones sent by Obama to Yemen and Pakistan. These are in response to suspected terrorists allegedly involved in the CIA killings. The drones killed six in Pakistan, 12 or more a couple of weeks ago. Wondering what your feelings are on drones being used. It would eliminate the necessity to capture and bring these perps to justice, negate the use of waterboarding, and wasting U.S. taxpayer dollars on civil court proceedings, etc. (since Holder disagrees with military tribunals).

Just Curious

I am a pacifist, but full realize that wars will rage. - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
If that's a given, then I am okay with drones, unless the "surgical precision" produces civilian casualties.

I have a question. How do drones know who the perps are? Can you clarify what you mean by that?

Exactly!..and does no permanent harm, unlike cutting off - a finger...or head does!!!.nm

[ In Reply To ..]
xxxx

Try selling that load to waterboarding victims - Or Sean Hannity for that matter. nm

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

"Waterboarding victims". Hey, they still have their - LIVES. They will be okay, unlike

[ In Reply To ..]
terrorists who torture our guys to DEATH! If we can get valuable information from a bad guy without permanently injuring him, more power to the Waterboarding Dept.

Ever hear of Camp Delta? Read up. - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
Bad information gained from alleged bad guys using bad interrogation techniques does not make us safer. Quite the contrary. US doesn't torture its prisoners to death? Puh-leeze. Ever hear of PTSD? Those who LIVE with it after political torture may not agree with your view.

You need to wake up to reality. Thank God MANY - Americans are. These guys want to

[ In Reply To ..]
kill us... You are probably more worried about providing them with a lawyer than protecting your own country... WAKE UP FROM THE FAIRY TALE!

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