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HATE CRIMES BILL to get O's signature

Posted: Oct 23, 2009

Only 29 holdouts on the Regressive Right -

Mathew Shepherd's mother is quoted here pointing out that Obama's predecessor would not have signed such a bill.

Of course he wouldn't - it takes a real LEADER WITH CHARACTER - to take a stand against hatred and the crimes hate inspires.

Signing this bill into law won't stop hatred, or the ignorance that spawns it, but it's a step in the right direction.

;

I really don't understand the hate crime thing,... - Kendra

[ In Reply To ..]
How many crimes are committed out of love? I personally don't think that the same crime should be held up as being any worse because it is committed against a gay person, black person or green person, for that matter. Crimes should be punished based on the crime, not the reason behind it or against whom it was committed.

I agree with you Kendra - NMMT

[ In Reply To ..]
Any violent crime committed against another person certainly wasn't done out of love and all should be punished equally;, however they won't be. This bill gives "special preference" to homosexuals. You can bet a homosexual will not be prosecuted for committing a "hate crime" against a Christian. It happens and the media won't even cover it. This bill is discriminatory at the very core.

Nonsense - NJ

[ In Reply To ..]
Hate crimes are committed specifically because of hate for the victim's perceived social group, not for money or whatever.

It is already a federal offense to commit a crime against someone based on their race, color, religion, or national origin. You're already covered, NMMT. If you think the homosexuals are after you because of your religion, call the cops.

Hate crime legislation is necessary to combat bigotry, oppression, and intolerance. As some people like to tell homosexuals, you can be whomever you like and think whatever you like but don't act on it. If you act on your hatred, you're going to jail.

NJ

EXACTLY NJ... - NMMT

[ In Reply To ..]
Hate crime legislation does not combat bigotry and intolerance. There will always be bigotry and intolerance. Always.... Homosexuals are bigotted and intolerant against Christians and their beliefs and Christians will always believe that homosexuality is immoral. Believing something to be immoral does not constitute bigotry or intolerance. Christ/God were not bigotted or intolerant but They tell us homosexuality is a sin. Bigotry and intolerance will forever be here. This has nothing to do with CRIME. Christians are not known to harm anyone based on their actions, unless you call "Bible thumping" a hate crime. LOL.... Homosexuals have been known to kill those who disagree with their lifestyle. This bill will only serve to protect a homosexual regardless of his actions, be it homosexual perversion or harming others because of their refusal to accept that perversion. You wait and see....

FYI - Smitty

[ In Reply To ..]
There have been many hate crimes committed by Christians in the name of Christ.

FYI - NMMT

[ In Reply To ..]
God has destroyed plenty of sinners. It's not called a hate crime. It's called punishment from God. He brought us in. He can and will take us out. Give that one a rest. ;-)

but it isn't up to humans.. - cj

[ In Reply To ..]
Yes, you are correct. But it isn't up to humans to do it for him; it is up to God alone. Your post amazes me. You are taking about humans killing other humans because they disapprove of or hate a particular group of people. Come on, God does not want us humans "taking out" anyone ever. He teaches us to love others, ALL others. I also do not believe God hates homosexuals. He may or may not approve of homosexuality (I am quite sure we would disagree on this point) but I am quite certain actually that he does not hate homosexuals. God loves us all. One cannot say they hate homosexuals or say it is okay to murder a homosexual (or anyone else) and then call themselves truly Christian. I think it is presumptuous of anyone on earth to think we can declare someone else's life right or wrong, good or bad, whatever. Remember, vanity and pride are sins, too. We are to love all people and let the judging to God, not men.

Of course, it's not... - NMMT

[ In Reply To ..]
up to humans to murder. How ridiculous. God specifically tells us not to murder/kill. But God can and does "take us out" at His own will. I don't believe that God hates any of us but he does hate the act of homosexuality (as well as other sins) and he tells us that we are to "abhor" it as well. I never said God hated homosexuals. You are putting words in my mouth or on the page. ;-) We are to love all people but if some of those people refer to themselves by the acts they commit--homosexuals, murders, thieves, prostitutes--then it is very difficult to love a person who refuses to acknowledge that fact. Loving the person and the act they commit are two entirely separate things. You know it as well as I do.

So, what are your thoughts on war? - Legion

[ In Reply To ..]
x

Several in the name of Allah.... - watcher

[ In Reply To ..]
just under 3000 in New York alone.

but why should hatred against one person... - Kendra

[ In Reply To ..]
be any worse than hatred against another just because that first person is a different race or of a different sexual orientation. If someone were to kill my husband, brother, et cetera, would the crime be any less of a crime because he is straight? Would I miss him any less? Would the loss be any less? Everyone says they want equality, but this is not equality. This is superiority.

Hatred as motivation - NJ

[ In Reply To ..]
If someone killed your brother because of road rage, let's say, that crime is not against all drivers. A hate crime makes the distinction that the crime is against a social group of people.

I remember back in Lewiston Maine when a man was chased down, beaten, and thrown off a bridge because he was gay. No other reason.

Matthew Sheppard was beaten, tied to a post, and left to die. No reason other than that he was gay.

It happens too often here in the US. It's a mini form of genocide. It is truly a horrible crime. And now it will be prosecuted as a federal offense.

This kind of legislation would not be necessary if we all looked and acted like your brother. But those of us who don't cannot be sought out and killed because we are different.

To NMMT:
Christians are famous for killing people in the name of Christianity. And Jesus did not say, "Love your neighbor, unless he's gay." Jesus didn't say boo about homosexuality.

There are Christians who try to emulate Jesus and there are Christians who pull quotes from the Old Testament to shore up their bigotries. My church teaches that Jesus would not think much of your philosophies.

NJ

But say that someone did.... - Kendra

[ In Reply To ..]
because he is a straight white male and it does happen. He would not be afforded the same punishment under these laws. Didn't someone once say that separate can't be equal? Perhaps if people didn't spend so much time pointing out that they are gay, et cetera, this would not be such a problem.

Straight white guys - NJ

[ In Reply To ..]
Straight white guys are not big targets here in the US just because they are straight white guys. They are on the top of the heap and generally speaking they are the perpetrators of most of the hate crimes.

As to going back in the closet where you don't have to listen to or look at us...no. I'll talk about my partner just like anyone else talks about his/her spouse. I'll speak up when the gay bashing starts, as I did on this board. If not for that first gay bashing post, you'd probably not know about me.

Yes, we have our flamboyant gays. You straights have WWF. I'd rather not have to hear about loud muscle-bound men slamming each other around. You'd rather not hear a flaming gay (I'm guessing). It's all free speech. Neither you nor I is about to go shoot someone because they're gay or a member of the WWF. But some people will. And the number of people who would shoot the gay is higher than you probably think. A lot of these crimes go unreported because of that danged closet. And that is a major reason for hate crime legislation.

We don't want extra protection. We just want cops and prosecutors who will do their jobs when we're attacked. Hate crime legislation addresses that (and if you don't think cops can be bigots, you're mistaken. They are human, too.)

Let me ask this. Do you know of hate crime legislation being misused? Not civil rights legislation, but hate crime stuff. Maybe we can explore why this is so threatening.

NJ

How about "jealousy" crimes then? You could go on and on. - Hate crime bill a total waste.. crime is crime.nm

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

I did not say that anyone should go back into the closet... - Kendra

[ In Reply To ..]
To be honest, NJ, I do not care if your gay, straight, yellow or purple with orange polka dots. I meant that if we all spent less time screaming about how different we are and then getting pissed off when people notice we're different, we might all get along a little better. As for WWF, I don't care to hear them, either. I do find it offensive that it is a bigger crime to kill a gay person than it is to kill a stright person. I would find it offensive if it were the other way around. My problem with this is that a bunch of people screaming about wanting equality are pushing for (and getting) more than equality. You are always talking about fair--where's the fairness in that?

Bigger crimes - NJ

[ In Reply To ..]
Ah, there's the rub. Ok, your view is on an individual basis. Gay murdered, bad. Straight murdered, bad. Equally bad.

My view and the view of those who support hate crime legislation is that crimes against people because they are (insert minority status here) are crimes against a whole segment of humanity, a mini-genicide. It is the motivation that sets these crimes apart. And the enforcement or lack thereof of the laws that should already cover it.

You know, if these crimes were prosecuted on the same level as crimes against the mainstream people, there would be no need for hate crime legislation. Sadly, that is not the way we have handled it. Cops turn their heads. Juries dismiss guilty people. Judges slap wrists and wink. Society blames the victims. Injustice prevails. So, what to do? Legislate.

That's how 'most every law we have came about. Enough people screwed up, so a law was made to stop the screwups. You want fair? So do we. People like that moron in Louisiana who wouldn't marry the interracial couple won't go away. People like him are judges and cops and juries and next door neighbors. Thankfully they are not the majority, but they exist in frighteningly large numbers. Thankfully there are cops and judges and juries and neighbors who won't stand for this crap, and they have backed hate crime legislation. The Matthew Shepard Act has been a long time coming and I am very glad it is finally seeing its day.

NJ

Knew it! You sound like an angry NJ? - nm

[ In Reply To ..]
.

Angry? Nah. She's just trying to have an intelligent discussion. (sm) - Nikki

[ In Reply To ..]
Please point out where she was angry because I didn't see it. In fact, she's very civil and trying to discuss issues in a civil manner without name calling.

TO NJ - NMMT

[ In Reply To ..]
God, the Father of Jesus, DID say something about homosexuality. You can't ignore that. This legislation will open up a HUGE can of worms. I know that people who are harmed will "become homosexual" if that's what it takes to get justice.

You will be brought up for criminal prosecution regardless of a person's sexual perversion or normalcy because many will "immediately" have homosexual tendencies if they have been criminally assaulted. I know my neigbor's brother was hit over the head outside of a bar in Arizona and bled to death. He and the other party were both "married with children, "code for normal. ;-) The man who did it told him, "I hate you, you SOB." Hate crime...won't be prosecuted as one because neither were homosexual or a person of color. I'm going to assume they weren't Christian unless one of them had a Bible under his arm. Being a homosexual gives you more leverage because it is "assumed" in this country that people hate homosexuals more than any other kind of person. I personally hate child molesters more but I still wouldn't harm one. Hate is hate regardless of your color, sexual activity, or religion. I guarantee this legislation will only afford protection to homosexuals and not Christians who are killed by anyone which makes it WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. There are mean and aggressive people in this world who find it very easy to kill anyone. Having to "become homosexual" just to be protected and allow for prosecution should not have to be an option for ANYONE.

Jesus said "Love your neighbor" but "abhor his/her homosexual acts" and "Thou shalt not kill."

It is obvious you and I worship different Gods. Mine is the One who gave us the Bible. I'm sticking with Him.

Religion is already protected - NJ

[ In Reply To ..]
Religion is already protected under hate crime legislation.

Do you know people who became a certain religion to take advantage of hate crime legislation?

NJ

Religion is not very well protected... - NMMT

[ In Reply To ..]
A Christian lady was killed by a homosexual who lived in her apartment. He cut her up and stuffed her body under a stairwell, all because she was trying to convert him. I guess that's good enough reason though. ;-)

Surely you jest? - NJ

[ In Reply To ..]
Your implication is that a law stops all from breaking it. While it may be a deterrent to some, it allows the state to prosecute the rest.

How about a reasonable argument?

NJ

He hit me cause I'm a girl and he hates women.. come on! - We dont need another pill..punish who commit crime

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

Outstanding, NJ - me

[ In Reply To ..]
Re: There are Christians who try to emulate Jesus and there are Christians who pull quotes from the Old Testament to shore up their bigotries.

Bingo! I am stunned by the people who go to church every weekend, look down on be because I do not - and then proceed to twist the Bible into a pretzel in an attempt to justify some of the meanest positions imaginable.

My favorite is when *Christians* quote "an eye for an eye"
CONVENIENTLY forgetting two critical facts:
1. 'Eye for an eye' comes from the "old testament" otherwise known as HEBRREW scripture; NOT from Jesus' teachings,
2. Christians follow Jesus - and Jesus SAID: You have heard it said, 'an eye for an eye' I tell you, there is another way...

There is little more repulsive than a Christian who can quote the Bible all day long, but rarely if ever walks the walk of a true follower of Jesus.

Ditto that! Definitely OUTSTANDING! Thanks, NJ (nm) - Nikki

[ In Reply To ..]
/

I agree as well. This bill only causes more problems. - It solves nothing..People really need to think abo

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

If your brother were gay or just displayed some - qualities that may be

[ In Reply To ..]

perceived to be somewhat feminine and not gay at all, his risk of being the victim of a crime would be far greater than a straight white male with nothing different about him. Imagine your brother being fearful to go to the city, or just to walk down the street. There were more than 77,000 reported hate crimes between 1998 and 2007, nearly one for every hour of every day over that 10-year period. I believe that if your brother were gay and/or possessed some mannerisms, voice, etc. that could be perceived as somewhat feminine, you may feel differently about upping the stakes for someone who would like to hurt him because he is different. I have no gay or effeminate males in my family, yet I have no problem at all seeing the plight of other mothers and families who fear for their loved ones.

Yeah, we need a real leader with character... Obama is not the one. - I am SO disappointed in him.nm

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

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