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Frustrated patients walk out of hospitals WITHOUT treatment

Posted: Jan 4, 2014

Knew it would not be if, but when.

'They had no idea if my insurance was active or not!': Obamacare confusion reigns as frustrated patients walk out of hospitals without treatment

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2532869/They-no-idea-insurance-active-not-At-Virginia-hospitals-Obamacare-confusion-reigns-frustrated-patients-walk-out.html

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The Daily Mail is neither well written nor objective - It is a tabloid and a very biased one at that

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I read DM for their entertainment articles, but it's a tabloid and journalistic integrity is not high on their priority list. If you can find an article about the same situation from an actual journalist, that would be worth reading.

Always, always take the DM with a grain of salt, ESPECIALLY when it comes to anything to do with Obama.

Whatever happened to talking about the issue - not the source - sm

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Okay, so you don't like the Daily Mail. That's cool. Your choice. I happen to like them. They've got good articles in a whole range of different topics. Their stories are true whether or not it favors someone. Just because it tells what is happening and you don't like it does not mean it's made up.

So you didn't like the source...that's fine. I feel the same way about MSNBC, Huff, Kos, and most other liberal news/radio/print. Except they actually do not tell the truth. So since you didn't like the Daily Mail, here are some other sites. The thing is the story is real and is true:

http://nworeport.me/2014/01/03/frustrated-patients-walk-out-of-hospitals-without-treatment/

http://nation.foxnews.com/2014/01/03/obamacare-confusion-reigns-frustrated-patients-walk-out-hospitals-without-treatment

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/health/health-care/frustrated-patients-walk-out-hospitals-without-treatment-amidst-obamacare#

http://freebeacon.com/obamacare-confusion-causes-patients-to-walk-out-of-hospitals/

http://iowntheworld.com/blog/?p=219698

Or if you don't like any of those articles then go here and take your pick. There are pages of them. It is true.

http://www.bing.com/search?q=patients+walk+out+of+hospitals&qs=n&form=QBLH&pq=patients+walk+out+of+hospitals&sc=0-17&sp=-1&sk=&cvid=f51a0c04c7fb4dc1ab615efd0ec481aa

If they can't complain about the source (sm) - Abby

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they would have to admit that the community organizer we have as president is an incompetent. He admitted today he doesn't even have anyone to fix the website. Is the whole country on Candid Camera?

Abby...see message - mbmt

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I went back to the healthcare website yesterday, and it is immensely better than it was before and easier to navigate through. Do you have a link you could provide where President Obama supposedly admits that he doesn't even have anyone to fix the website? I did a search and could not find anything like that.

More at WSJ.com - link below - Helper

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We don't have enough people inside of government to make good sound technology decisions," said Clay Johnson, a former White House innovation fellow, a program designed to draw top technologists into the government for temporary assignments.

Complete article below - I'm sure you'll hear more about it tomorrow - well, maybe not at the places you use for sources.

Link

That's not Obama admitting he can't fix it. - nm

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/

Sigh..... - nm

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nm

Yes, I would sigh too. - nm

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nm

Helper - mbmt

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Nice try, but I still am waiting for something that says that President Obama admitted "today" he doesn't have anyone to fix the website.

It's not so much complaining about the source, - sm

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but it's a difficult story to corroborate, and multiple sites running the identical story does not make it true.

Here are some things we do know are true: Hospitals cannot turn away emergency cases. Nurses don't provide patients with the fee schedule. There are ombudsmen. There is financial assistance.

If the story is true, it is an example of problems with hospital care - not Obamacare.

Did you even read any of those links that you posted? - Every single one tracks back to the Daily Mail

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Every. Single. One.

They either refer you to the original Daily Mail article or they use the Daily Mail as their source.

The Daily Mail is a tabloid. They are not known for being journalists.

I get that you like it. That's fine. I read it, too, as I said. I love their entertainment fluff pieces.

You can't count on a tabloid from the United Kingdom (and I'm a HUGE Anglophile) for information and accurate news about what is going on in the United States. You definitely can't count on a tabloid in the UK that is very clearly biased in one direction, not if you want accurate, unbiased news, which, you know, maybe you don't.

Again, please talk about the issue - which is people are being turned away

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Not who reports it, but the actual fact that people are being turned away. I don't give a rat's pitooty if Fox, CNN, Canada, Russia or Aliens report it. The news story is real. It is happening to people throughout the country. Doctors are on hold with insurance companies for up to 2 hours while a person is waiting to go into surgery trying to figure out if they are covered.

So what you are saying is those people's lives/health care doesn't matter because they are reporting on something that doesn't favor the O and his signature failure......nice.

She wasn't turned away. Her deductible was not met. She'd have to pay - so she left

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her decision

Wrong - Here let me explain for you. Maybe it was too small to read. - Mrs. Tingles

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Hospital staff in Northern Virginia are turning away sick people on a frigid Thursday morning because they can’t determine whether their Obamacare insurance plans are in effect. (That is NOT the patient's decision).

Patients in a close-in DC suburb who think they’ve signed up for new insurance plans are struggling to show their December enrollments are in force, and health care administrators aren’t taking their word for it.

'They had no idea if my insurance was active or not!’ a coughing Maria Galvez told MailOnline outside the Inova Healthplex facility in the town of Springfield.

Consumers face sticker-shock from medical costs under the new Obamacare system, made worse if they can’t prove they’re insured

As many as one-third of new enrollees’ applications have seen problems when the government transmits them to insurance companies

Funny how so many posters here (not you in particular, but a lot of the posters who posted) pretended that they were so concerned for everyone to get healthcare. Now these people signed up and thought they got health care, come to find out through no fault of their own, get to the hospital or doctors and are turned away, and posters here don't even care about that. Just concerned that anyone is bringing it up.

I googled it, here is what I found from 2012 - Obamacare B.C.

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Hospitals Demand Payment Upfront From ER Patients With Routine Problems

By Phil Galewitz
KHN Staff Writer

Feb 20, 2012

Next time you go to an emergency room, be prepared for this: If your problem isn't urgent, you may have to pay upfront.

Last year, about 80,000 emergency-room patients at hospitals owned by HCA, the nation's largest for-profit hospital chain, left without treatment after being told they would have to first pay $150 because they did not have a true emergency.

Led by the Nashville-based HCA, a growing number of hospitals have implemented the pay-first policy in an effort to divert patients with routine illnesses from the ER after they undergo a federally required screening. At least half of all hospitals nationwide now charge upfront ER fees, said Rick Gundling, vice president of the Healthcare Financial Management Association, which represents health-care finance executives.

"It has been a successful part of helping to reduce crowding in emergency rooms and to encourage appropriate use of scarce resources," HCA spokesman Ed Fishbough said.

But emergency-room doctors and patient advocates blast the policy as potentially harmful to patients, and they say those with mild illnesses such as sore throats and ear infections do little to clog ERs and do not require CT scans or other pricey technologies.

Kim Bailey, research director for the consumer group Families USA, said the tactic lets hospitals turn away uninsured patients who often fail to pay their bills and are a drag on profits. While the uninsured pay upfront fees as high as $350, depending on the hospital, those with insurance pay their normal co-payment and deductible upfront.

"This is certainly a concern to us," Bailey said.

From the article posted - sm

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"It's unlikely that a valid insurance card would have changed Galvez' fortunes, however.
Her Carefirst plan, identified on the Obamacare website as BlueChoice Plus Bronze, carries a $5,500 per-person deductible for 2014 – an amount she would have to pay out-of-pocket before her coverage would apply to medical expenses."

Most insurance policies, Obamacare or otherwise, have deductibles.

It upsets me for people to defend ACA plans - a lot of it is insurance that people can't even u - sm mess

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I agree, she probably was not "turned away" because they did not know if she had insurance but seriously - many people DON'T understand how insurance works with the deductibles. I just don't understand HOW the government can promote and be so ecstatic about people signing up with these huge deductibles, no co-pays, limited providers, etc.! Oh right .. probably it is mostly those people fortunate enough to still have insurance in a state where decent coverage is available for a decent price.

How long are many people going to pay the premiums when they realize they added a monthly expense but it basically does them no good unless they have a significant health event? Or their prescriptions are costing them 4x what they did before, on top of the premiums they are paying. Wait till the next year or two .. and their subsidies are reduced and they are paying income taxes instead of getting refunds ... big picture - this is a royal mess. For some, yes, it is a blessing and helping, but I truly believe more are suffering because of it. Nothing in life is free, as a lot of people are quickly finding out.

It upsets me when people rally around misleading, distorted, and/or untrue - published stories

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Your post makes good points and well stated. I respect and prefer this type of delivery to the tabloid sensationalism the Daily Mail projects.

Support of untruthful, misleading, and outright insincere journalism, such as the Daily Mail article IMO, is just as bad or worse than those who defend ACA plans.

Unfortunately, - old and burned out

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a lot of people who have never had insurance before do not understand deductibles and copays. They also don't understand when to use primary care and when to use an ER. This is an issue of education and not insurance and has not been given enough attention. While I support universal health care, I think it is going to take many years to educate everyone on the proper way to use it.

I agree. There will be confusion and unhappiness...sm - VTMT

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Until the people who have never had health insurance understand how it works, copays, deductibles etc. Also, there are many who don't have a primary doctor yet and will continue to misuse the ER until they realize a doctor's office visit is more appropriate and cheaper.

I am old enough to remember the same bumps in the road when Medicare was rolled out 50 years ago.

I support single payer and hope in the future that's what we evolve to. Vermont has a target date of 2017.

these two posts were really smart and sane - thanks

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I always enjoy your posts, O&B and VTMT.

(The poster formerly known as doe.)

Sticking to the issue, the issue is not credible - Facts please - nm

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for fact - sl

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http://general.mtstars.com/371524.html

I wondered the same thing when Cons hijacked GNP post, claiming CNN was - untrustworthy

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for just reporting GNP numbers that are reported by every legit news agency, even RW media.

The difference here is no one is reporting it except for the RW.

The first one you listed is a "New - sm

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World Order" site. Do you even know what that is?

Then I saw "Fox," and then had seen enough, so I hit X.

Again, what happened to discussing the issue - and not the source

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How about talking about the issue, which is that OC is failing, not the source because you don't like it.

Again, when Cons get away with criticizing CNN, I think that opens the door to any source - especially this one

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to be closely scrutinized.

I'm not finding this story anywhere else. The GDP story from CNN was everywhere, yet that thread devolved into the source, not the issue.

Which post trashed CNN? - link please

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need to verify whether this is true.

link - sm

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That's not trashing CNN - kind of a nice try

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That's someone giving their opinion about CNN.

How is that any different than giving an opinion - on the Daily Mail?

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Yeah, I guess trash was kind of harsh, so I changed it to - criticized. ty NM

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x

That is someone definitely trashing CNN. - nm

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nm

Closed mindedness. - Way to go!

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nm

JOB TRYOUTS?? - NPC

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Are you all auditioning for Jay Carney's job?

-

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See other posts on patients being turned away - Codo

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By Doris Quintanilla, Fri, January 03, 2014

Patients needing urgent medical treatment in Virginia are being turned away because they can’t determine whether their Obamacare insurance plans are in effect, MailOnline reports.

Inidividuals who say they signed up by the Dec. 23 deadline to be insured by Jan. 1 are now struggling to show proof of insurance. Health care administrators are not taking their word for it.

“They had no idea if my insurance was active or not!” Maria Galvez told MailOnline, who was leaving the Inova Healthplex facility in the town of Springfield without getting a much needed chest x-ray. She was told the total cost of the x-ray would be more than $500.

Galvez said she enrolled in a Carefirst Blue Cross bronze plan at a cost of about $450 per month through healthcare.gov, three days before Christmas, but says no one has sent her a bill.

Another patient, Mary, a small businesswoman who did not want MailOnline to publish her last name, was leaving the Inova Alexandria Hospital in Alexandria, Virginia said she also did not receive her needed treatment for not being able to prove she was insured.

“I had chest pains last night, and they took me in the emergency room,” Mary said. “They told me they were going to admit me, but when I told them I hadn’t heard from my insurance company since I signed up, they changed their tune.”

A nurse told her that her bill would go up by at least $3,000 if she stayed an extra day. Her doctor let her make the final decision.

“Should I be in the hospital? Probably,” she said. “Maybe it’s one of those borderline cases. I have to think that if I were really in danger, they wouldn’t give me the choice.

Obamacare has seen a slew of critics and setbacks since its enrollment opened on Oct. 1, from online glitches to questions about people’s enrollment going through.

“We’re telling consumers if they’re not sure if they’re enrolled they should call the insurer directly,” White House Press Secretary Jay Carney told reporters on Dec. 2.

More than 2 million people enrolled in health care plans during this first initial sign-up period. Healthcare providers have been preparing to deal with the confusion of verifying proper enrollment.

Dr. William Wulf, CEO of Central Ohio Primary Care told CBS News his physician offices will “assume that an existing patient is covered if they claim to be when they come in for appointments and their coverage cannot be verified immediately.”

However, if the patients require expensive tests such as MRIs, his Ohio physician offices will have to check with insurers to confirm enrollment.

Sources: MailOnline, CBS News, WhiteHouse.gov
Get More: affordable healthcare act | Obamacare | Obamacare glitches | Obamacare problems | Virginia health care |

questions - NK

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MailOnline is the website of the Daily Mail.

Inova HealthPlex in Springfield is an outpatient facility so I'm not quite sure how "Mary" thought she was going to be admitted. I also noticed that there was a quote from an Ohio physician but not anyone from Inova. Wouldn't you think there would be reporters swarming around, trying to get a statement from the administrators or the doctors/nurses who actually did the turning away? I sure would like to know what the spokespeople from Inova have to say for themselves.

This story is just silly. Each patient needs to fulfill their...sm - VTMT

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deductible before their insurance would kick in. In other words, none of these patients' EKGs, chest x-rays or any other treatment would be paid for by their new insurance. No brain cells at work here.

Oh I see. So now it's everyone's else's fault - that OC is not working

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You were right about your last sentence describing what you just wrote.

Please reread my post. That is not what I said. nm - VTMT

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Maybe they did not understand - a lot of people do not. - sm mess

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not everyone is well educated in these insurance issues, and even if someone explains it, they still don't really get it until they try to use it. I have tried to explain it to some of my family members, and for some people they truly just don't get it! And that is ok - maybe their brain cells don't understand insurance but they probably can do something you or I can't. JMHO.

OBAMACARE MESS - ProMT

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The Obama administration is now advising people who have signed up for the ACA fiasco to take even more time and contact their insurance carrier to verify that they do, indeed, have healthcare insurance. It is not surprising that there is SO much confusion, especially since Obama continues to illegally change the ACA laws almost daily without congressional approval. Can anyone say, "MASS CHAOS?"

Interesting - NK

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I thought one of the GOP/RW talking points was that the ACA was not needed because people without insurance can always go to an ER and get treatment, and now you're reporting (with what sounds to me like glee) that hospitals are turning people away without treatment and/or frustrated people are stomping out after being told that they are responsible for payment. I hate to burst your bubble, but that's been the policy for as many years as I can remember. I can't remember the last time I went to a hospital or a medical office without being told that if my insurance didn't pay I was responsible and, incidentally, signed a form in that regard. Approximately how many people in the midst of heart attacks do you think were turned away from hospitals without treatment because they didn't have proof of insurance yet?

Only the illegals get free health care now. - nm

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nm

Where's MO's college buddy... - NPC

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...when needed?

Did you forget? - NK

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That was debunked in an earlier thread.

No, sorry to disappoint you. - NPC

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It has not been debunked.

No it wasn't. Did you forget - Mrs. Tingles - sm

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You are not the moderator. You don't get to say what can and cannot be talked about here.

There was nothing to "debunk".

Yay! Everyone but the moderator can make up stuff , then. - Whoop Dee Doo

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I thought people actually wanted to talk about facts here.

Making up stuff...like something has been - debunked

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When someone throws out that something has been "debunked" when it has not, no they are not interested in talking about facts.

Perhaps - NK

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you can explain where in my post I told someone what can and cannot be talked about here.

The whole thing's hilarious - coming from the UK - wheres_my_job

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All they're doing is proving the US should have gone with a health care system like they have in the UK - not the insurance-company-saddled system we have put in place.

Bring on single-payer/the sooner the better

No BIG government for me. - NPC

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No single-payer. No big gov't! Period!

EXACTLY!!!! There will be NO single payer system. UK's system - is a mess - Mrs. Tingles - sm

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They can want whatever they want to. Aint gonna happen. America has been very clear. No single payer system. Period!

America has NOT been clear. Single-payer IS on the way! - wheres_my_job

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UK system is not a mess. Nor are any of the other health systems around the world, that don't have the insurance industry raking in tons of profits (i.e., sucking money out of the system).

Single-payer or something similiar is inevitable. Insurance-saddled system is too expensive a system to maintain.

And how exactly would single-payer - be better? (nm)

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*

Medicare - NK

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is a single payer. I can personally attest to there being no comparison between it and the junk policy I had. The deductibles are reasonable, and, if you choose, you can buy a supplemental plan to help with those deductibles and drugs. I can go to any hospital or physician who accepts Medicare (have yet to find one who doesn't). Even all my friends in this tea party town don't complain about having to enroll in a "big government, single-payer, socialized medicine program."

You need to talk to people from the UK or Canada. - NPC

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I happen to personally know people from both countries. Their stories are nightmares. Just two small examples for you: A woman in Ontario, Canada, crossed the border into the US and paid cash for CABG because the waiting list in Canada was six months. A diabetic man in Blackpool, England, had double BKAs because he wasn't admitted to the hospital when he went to his PCP time after time for months on end for conservative treatment, which kept failing. The above examples encapsulate the Death Panels we've all heard about lately. These are personal stories to me, but you don't have to look too far to find out how people really like universal health care or single payer. Also, look at the taxes those countries pay. Our people balk at paying taxes already. Are you willing to pay your "fair share" or should we "redistribute the wealth"?

Have you ever actually been to Canada or the - UK and used their systems?

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.

No, I am American. - NPC

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I forgot to comment above on another...a 48-year-old woman complaining of lower abdominal pain for months. She was misdiagnosed with appendicitis when she actually had metastatic colon cancer and died three months later. I don't need nor do I want any kind of medical care in Canada or any other country with socialized medicine, and I don't want the USA to become a nanny state. Period.

I figured as much. - nm

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/

And what makes you so all-knowing? - NPC

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Let's hear your story.

Thank you for calling me all-knowing, but I - claim no such thing.

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I already figured you were American with no desire to experience health care in Canada or the UK for yourself. I don't know if that means I'm all-knowing, but thanks for the compliment!

I live in a border city and have been to Canada... - NPC

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..countless times with family and friends there. I am glad I have not needed medical care there. I speak from first-hand experience about the perils of socialized medicine. American principles of democracy are being eroded by this president. Last time I checked, America was not about socialism, Marxism or whatever one wants to call it.

You know that your silence speaks volumes, don't you? - nm

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nm

Is this a joke? - :/

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Someone doesn't respond in your (narrow) timeframe, and you assume that's some kind of statement?

teeheehee - nm

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nm

Is American medicine immune to mistakes? - sm

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I just did a report about a woman who died after an infection from a lap pad being left in.

A couple weeks ago I typed a report on someone who came in in shock due to a perforated colon after a colonoscopy.

Humans practice medicine.

No...sm - NPC

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Absolutely not. However, the key word there is mistakes. What I am talking about is neglect, plain and simple. Socialized medicine is nonaggressive, very conservative. How do you like that word? Nothing you can say will ever change my mind because I speak for those noted in my prior posts, two of whom are now dead BECAUSE of socialism.

I am not trying to change your mind. I am discussing the - topic

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I did not address you personally nor did I challenge your point of view; I was expressing mine. Making things personal causes threads to degrade into personal attacks, not the issues.

I pointed out that medical care directed by by profit-making insurance companies versus socialized medicine is not immune to mistakes or neglect, for that manner. IMO insurance companies are neglectful when picking and choosing who will receive certain treatments depending on how much they contribute to the the money-making machines in monthly premiums.

Point taken... - NPC

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My feeling prior to the ACA was that we did need some kind of reform. I, like the vast majority of Americans, am just not happy with the path taken. On another note, I feel it is grossly unfair to pawn costs off on younger Americans to pay for elders' health care.

the path - sm

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I really don't see how any of this will work effectively without a single payer system.

I looked up the insurance plan the lady mentioned in this article had and it's pretty worthless. She'll have to pay over $6000 before receiving any insurance payouts if I've deciphered it correctly. I'm assuming this is one of the catastrophic plans.

But, as some other poster said, people with plans like this, or any other plan I guess, need to have a basic understanding of their plan, its limitations, and what services to seek and where.

I agree that it may be unfair for younger Americans to pay for a more needy older population, but that is what insurance is. We collectively pay for everyone else. I've been paying for old folks' SS/Medicare for the last 40 years. And hopefully in about 7 years, the young will be paying for mine.

I know we disagree, but single payer/socialized medicine is that path I think we need to take. Profit making has no place in keeping people healthy and alive.

My hope is that... - NPC

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...we can all learn from mistakes, correct them and move on. I pray for a better America for ALL Americans! I have to leave this board...just wanted to say that in case anyone wonders why I don't respond.

These "elders" you refer to have paid into the - sm

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Medicare system their entire lives, with each and every paycheck, and they are entitled to the healthcare they paid for.

Of note, Medicare for those "elders" does not come....sm - VTMT

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free. It costs about $300 a month for Medicare part B, supplemental coverage, and prescription coverage. Only Medicare part A (hospital coverage) is paid for by the government and comes from our contribution to payroll taxes.

High-fiving you! - nm

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nm

Exactly! There should be no profit motive in - healthcare. nm

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nm

My family lives in Canada and I have a friend in the UK and - been there - NPC is exactly correct

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You do know that you don't actually have to go physically visit or interview everyone there don't you? The stories are widely published and my cousins verified exactly what everyone else is saying. Their systems are a nightmare and they've been warning us for years not to make the same mistakes and go down the same road. It is not good for the people.

Yes, everyone has a "friend" in Canada. - I'm Canadian, became a US citizen at 24.

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But please, tell me about your friend. It never gets old hearing about someone who has a friend or a cousin in Canada and suddenly knows all about the health care system. You DO know that people complain about the health care system in the US, right? Why bother with anecdotal stories at all? We all have them.

America HAS been clear and single payer is NOT on the way - sm

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What part of that are you not understanding. I really don't know how much more clearer to make it. Americans have been perfectly clear on NO single payer. Just because you want something a certain way does not mean it is going to go your way.

Both Canada and the UK's system is a huge mess. I talk with people from there so I know that. They cannot get the medicines they need, they can't get the appointments they need. They are on waiting lists for months and months.

It's not about insurance companies executives profiting. None of us like that, but that is an emotion. You cannot make the American people suffer because you think you are somehow getting back at the execs making the big money. They are going to make it no matter what. In fact, not sure you know this, but the insurance companies are the ones who designed the ACA/OC. They are profiting big time under this new health care (if not more than before). Why do you think they are in an uproar that Obama is exempting certain people. They want everyone to pay more because that is just more profits in their pockets.

We need to follow the teachings of other countries with single payer. It is not a good system for them, they are explaining why. We need to listen. America has been perfectly clear on no to a single payer system.

A single payer system is socialized medicine. Plain and simple.

Again, no SPS is not on the way.

You don't know that single payer is not on the way, - sm

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If Americans can vote the crazies out, then maybe the act can be amended to single payer, which is what Obama (and most of the country) wanted in the first place.

We're already paying for Medicare. That's single payer, and it works wonderfully.

It IS about the cost of healthcare, the source of which is high executive salaries and profits galore. This should not be and option when it comes to healthcare.

No, America has not "been very clear." - sm

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Obama wanted a single payer.

The Republicans refused.

So Obama compromised and suggested the public option.

The Republicans refused.

The system we have right now is the system the Republicans wanted because they knew it would bring on this kind of result and they could keep trashing ACA.

Hopefully, enough Rs will be voted out in November that the Dems can take back the house and the Act can be changed to what it should have been all along: single payer, something like Medicare.

Yes, America has been very clear - your statements are wrong

[ In Reply To ..]
Well the first 2 are correct. The third one is wrong. Obama never compromised on anything. It's always been his/democrats way or the highway.

The system we have right now is not what the republicans wanted. The system in place right now is all the democrats doing.

Your last statement sends chills down my spine. Please go to North Korea if you want a one branch government. That is not how America works. Checks and balances.

Hopefully more democrats will be voted out in November so we can start to get more balance in our government. The dems are irresponsible children that need adult supervision. They have proven they do not know what they are doing and they don't have the best interest of the American people in their interest. Just empowering themselves. The good thing is more and more people are realizing that because of democrats they have lost their insurance, their jobs are cutting their hours back so they don't have to provide insurance. Americans are waking up and just in time.

The Act was never supposed to be single payer.

Hopefully the republicans will gain more seats, and put an end to destruction the dems are doing.

Right, big country, tiny government = woefully unprepared country for anything... - wheres_my_job

[ In Reply To ..]
Yes, a streamlined single-payer system would be so much worse, because having all these insurance companies getting their profits is SO important to patient health...that is what it's about right...the best care for patients...not insurance company profits...oh wait this is America.......

"tiny government" - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
...that shrinks the military and has no respect for service members nor its veterans. Yeah, what a great president. NOT!

That's Congress' fault. They hold the purse strings. - nm

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

Nancy & Harry? - nm

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

Oh, when did Nancy become Speaker again? - nm

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

When did Nancy leave politics? - nm

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

You be sure NOT to take Medicare, then, okay? - me

[ In Reply To ..]
That is most definitely a single-payer system and you do not want to be a hypocrite.

OBAMACARE - ProMT

[ In Reply To ..]
At this point, NO ONE can predict when or where the ACA trainwreck will eventually crash. There is way too much confusion and incompetence with this fiasco. We can only hope that the Republicans will maintain the House and also gain control of the Senate this November and that they can start impeachment proceedings against this president and totally repeal his disastrous healthcare law.

Question - mbmt

[ In Reply To ..]
What are they going impeach him for?

IMPEACHMENT OF OBAMA - ProMT

[ In Reply To ..]
mbmt: Please Google "Obama's impeachable offenses" and "How Congress can impeach the president." I have educated myself on both of these issues, and I suggest others do so.

Education - mbmt

[ In Reply To ..]
No American President has ever been forced from office due to impeachment, and this is not likely to happen to President Barack Obama even if those on the right hope for it to happen.

If BO were impeached, - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
I would not expect him to have the grace to step down.

Hmmm - mbmt

[ In Reply To ..]
You do know that this impeachment talk is just that, don't you?

For now... - nm

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

Many things... - Google this

[ In Reply To ..]
"obama impeachable offenses list"

Be sure to read the many sources.

You have just described the worst disaster I - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
could ever imagine.

This nightmare is the fault of the republicans for not compromising with Obama after Obama had compromised TWICE with them and then Obama finally allowed them to have their way with this FIASCO.

They have always wanted Obama to fail, and this is why they refused to compromise with him regarding single payer and/or public option.

If the Republicans have their way, they will starve each and every baby they force to be born, each and every elderly person, and each and every American who isn't rich.

The American Dream is dead, and the Republicans killed it. Yet, you want MORE???!!

Unbelievable!

UNINFORMED VOTER BASE - ProMT

[ In Reply To ..]
Uneducated Voters Have Disturbing Effect On Elections: It seems that present-day elections are no longer about the candidate or proposition with the most appealing content, but rather the candidate or proposition with the best-edited commercial, the brightest colors or the most memorable slogan. In essence, ignorance and superficiality have taken a stronghold on our voting system. People, more than ever before, are voting without knowing what they're voting for. Americans, nowadays, are beginning to drift away from being informed voters. It is hard to keep a considerable hope for a better future when it seems that for every educated voter there is an uninformed one to counter his or her vote.

I am NOT uninformed. I watch your R/TP - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
THEMSELVES and how they publicly feel about those less fortunate. They don't make it a secret.

I would suggest you read your post to yourself, aloud, in front of a mirror.

NONPARTY AFFILIATE - ProMT

[ In Reply To ..]
I do not own the R/TP; it is not mine, and I never suggested I was affiliated with either party. Please do not make suggestions based on your assumptions. My opinion is that both dominant parties are a complete mess at this point, and this country absolutely needs some change, but we are definitely on the wrong path with this president and his history of failures of epic proportions. You are, indeed, entitled to your opinion as I am to mine. If you consider my previous post the worst disaster you can imagine, I suggest you expand your imagination and open your eyes and ears to what is going to happen in 2104. I will be gracious enough not to say, "I told you so."

I doubt that I will be alive in 2104 to find out. - nm

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

Excellent post - Mrs. Tingles - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
I think that is the problem I am seeing too. There are too many people who are uninformed about the issues that are allowed to vote. And on top of that vote more than once. Now it's all about the "bling". The bigger and brighter the bling is what seems to get them in. When you talk to someone and they cannot even talk to you about issues without saying so-n-so is better looking or a better dancer or whatever nonsense, but they don't understand how politics works, who is responsible for what and who is the real person who started some disaster, but instead equates someone to looking like the devil then you just know you are dealing with an uninformed voter.

Here's a good example of "uninformed voters". This would be funny if it wasn't so said. A real eye opener as to the kind of people who vote. This video is only one of many. People are just plain stupid.

What's really sad is how stupid these people really are. The guy says "will you sign this to help support Obama..." and they are grabbing the pen to sign before he even tells them what the issue is. Very very sad.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/12/mark-dice-repeal-bill-of-rights-petition-prank-video_n_3585634.html

EXTREMELY UNINFORMED - ProMT

[ In Reply To ..]
I have proof-positive, first-hand experience of the uninformed voter base. When Obama first ran for office, I asked some of my coworkers who supported him what policies they admired and why they thought Obama would make a good president. The 3 most remembered comments, from 3 black coworkers, were (1) "I'm hoping Obama can restore family values to the White House; (2) "He black, have to give him a chance;" and (3) "Huh?" Hmmmmm...

Are we plagerizing now? - nm

[ In Reply To ..]
/

SPELLCHECK PLAGERIZING - ProMT

[ In Reply To ..]
What is plagerizing? Do you mean plagiarizing?

Who cares how it's spelled? - nm

[ In Reply To ..]
.

No she's not - nm

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

Yes, she is. - Link

[ In Reply To ..]
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/column-uneducated-voters-have-disturbing-effect-on-elections/

"It seems that present-day elections are no longer about the candidate or proposition with the most appealing content, but rather the candidate or proposition with the best-edited commercial, the brightest colors or the most memorable slogan. In essence, ignorance and superficiality have taken a stronghold on our voting system. People, more than ever before, are voting without knowing what they're voting for."

No, she did not cut and paste the entire article - and try to pass it off as her own

[ In Reply To ..]
She posted part of it. We are starting to learn that it is best not to put where are sources are coming from.

If we find something of interest we will post. Sometimes it could be a sentence, sometimes a paragraph. Sometimes our own ideas summarized and sometimes an article will say exactly how we feel. You can post part of an article.

She's not trying to make money off of what she posted or publish it. She posted something of interest. Geez!

This is what is wrong with America - Can't see the truth from the lies

[ In Reply To ..]
I'm going to go with ProMT. But I will say I implore you to please find some news that is not biased with hate slinging at one side.

The worse disaster imaginable will be if the democrats take control. They already have most of the control and what they have done has been and is an ongoing disaster.

This nightmare is the fault of everyone involved. Not just democrats and NOT JUST republicans.

Republicans have been compromising. Have you not been paying attention. Obama has NEVER compromised. It's his way or no way. It's lets make the American people suffer until the republicans give in and I get my way. He has not compromised. Period. Bill Clinton was one of the worse presidents I can remember and he certainly did deserve impeachment, but my God man, I'll take him any day over what is happening now.

Obama/democrats didn't compromise with everyone. They played chicken - with our lives- and they won. They got exactly what they wanted without having to give anything. Now when it's all falling apart they're trying to blame someone besides themselves.

Nobody wanted anyone to fail...calm down...that is the propaganda they are feeding you. What they want is socialist ideas and plans to fail because that is not the way our country operates.

Your sentence about if republicans have their way is again more of the propaganda. I know this for a fact because you just repeated word for word what MSNBC said. It is the exact same thing word for word that my in-law stated "word for word". You need to calm down and stop repeating false propaganda. It is not rationale thinking and shows an emotional imbalance. There is no proof or logic to it.

The American Dream is alive and well. Sure we're going through some tough times. Always do with democrats in charge. I believe once November comes and more democrats lose their seats and we can restore some balance to our government. Have equal democrats/republicans for the check and balances things will start to come back. It will take some time to fix the problems the democrats have gotten us into, will take some time to heal the nasty vitriol and harm they have done. We need to bring in good economist, good people who know how to bring our country back. We need to move forward and make our country a strong place once again but it will never happen with democrats in charge, but a lot of harm has been done. It won't be able to be fixed overnight, but from everything I am reading (from non-political biased people and many many other sources) I'm looking forward to November. Our once more democrats are out and we get a balance restored the country will finally be able to heal.

November cannot come soon enough.

I, too, agree with you, ProMT and Mrs. Tingles. - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
And I am so looking forward to November!!

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