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Four gay teen suicides in past 4 weeks following
Posted: Sep 30, 2010
The common threads between the following cases are gay sexual orientation, both real and perceived, bullying and harassment, desperate parents, school officials turning a blind eye and a viral virtual environment plastered with homophobic rants in blogs, on Twitter, Facebook, MySpace and alongside broadcast media in the wake of reporting on DADT unconstitutionality and repeal.
Seth Walsh, 13, died yesterday after 9 days on life support following a successful suicide attempt by hanging himself in the back yard of his Tehachapi CA home. Reports say he had endured antigay bullying for years. The bullies cried when they got the news, but go on with business as usual without charges being brought against them.
Straight-A NW Houston area 8th-grade student Asher Brown, 13, shot himself in the head last week after enduring 18 months of antigay bullying. His stepfather found his body in the parents bedroom closet where Asher knew he stored his gun. His parents report he did it because of relentless antigay bullying over his perceived sexual orientation, expressed by students who performed mock sexual acts on him during PE class, among numerous other antigay incidents. Over the past 18 months, he had also been picked on because of his small stature, religion and designer-clothing-free wardrobe. Repeated complaints to school officials apparently fell on deaf ears, who also would not return phone calls the parents made to the school in this regard. When questioned by investigators, they denied that the parents ever reported any bullying. Evidently, the bullies continue to roam free in school hallways and buses.
Jayron Martin, another gay student in Asher's same school district, reports being struck repeatedly with a metal pipe in an attack by a fellow student while 8 others, including the school bus driver, stood and watched. Earlier that day, a friend told Martin of the group's plan to attack him. Martin reported this to two school administrators and gave them a handwritten note reporting the rumor. He was told they would call him down to the principals office later, which they never did, nor did they contact the mother. Martin took the bus home. His attackers chased him into a neigobors home where they continued to beat him for 7 minutes, Martin says. The homeowner finally appeared with a shotgun and was able to disperse the students. He had to actually cock the shotgun before the beating stopped.
Billy Lucas, 15, a Greensburg Indiana student, was found by his mother hanging from a horse lead in their barn, surrounded by the animals he loved so much. A school friend said his bullying dated back at least a year. He killed himself after being suspended from school for swearing at some of his female bullies in class after a lunchtime incident when a group of students bullied him for being gay, pulled the chair out from under him and told him he should hang himself. His mom says she had prevoiusly tried talking to the school about the bullying to no avail.
Rutgers freshman Tyler Clementi, 18, jumped off the George Washington Bridge into the Hudson River on September 22 after discovering his dorm roommate, with the help of a fellow female dorm resident, had twice live streamed video on iChat of him having sex with a male partner in his dorm room. Seems his roommate had engineered the scheme by setting up a web cam after Tyler asked him for private use of the room. Charges are pending against the creeps.
Anyone who thinks hate speech doesn't kill isn't paying attention. It is never harmless and first amendment FOS rights do not extend the license to become an accessory to suicide. You can put a face to the names if you take the time to review the source articles.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/7220896.html
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Bullying - Debra
[ In Reply To ..]is wrong, no matter what the reason. Kids are bullied for many reasons, not just perceived gayness. As much as I am against bullying in any form and I teach my children it is wrong and they better not ever do it, many people tend to believe (incorrectly) that just saying you don't believe in something (such as gay behavior) is akin to bullying and it isn't. Please do not confuse the two as I know that is what this post is meant to accomplish. There will always be those who believe gay behavior is wrong, as I do and I always will believe it. That doesn't mean a person wishes harm to those who engage in gay behavior and you can't place blame for suicides on those who don't believe in it because something God tells us is wrong will never be accepted by those who believe in God. Bullying is wrong, just as wrong as the gay behavior and these children's suicides are very sad to say the least. Someone needs to talk to the bullies and someone also needs to talk to the teens who believe that gay behavior is acceptable/normal/right. That might save more lives than anything. Now.... rant on.... :)
I agree that bullying is wrong - no matter what the reason.
[ In Reply To ..]As for the rest of your post, no sooner is that statement out of your mouth than you start trivializing and belittling gay target cases, making excuses and trying to explain away the significance of the circumstances.
Did you read the post, or any of the articles? Are you seriously suggesting that the perps in these cases simply expressed disagreement with gay behavior? You are the one who seems confused. The post recanted five fatal cases of clear-cut antigay bullying and harassment, that resulted in the suicides of teenage kids, for God's sake. There was nothing in there that even remotely resembles a rant. The articles convey real-life incidents and report the facts that surrounded them. There was only one rather meek statement about hate speech at the end. Despite this, you are determined to assign a hidden agenda.
The poster did not blame people who do not believe in homosexuality, but instead took issue with hate speech. Your defensive stance speaks for itself. It never ceases to amaze me how people who invoke the Bible and God in this debate use the Book and the Lord to expose their unlimited capacity for self-righteous indignation and as a tool to spread hatred. You are entitled to your opinions and your private religious beliefs. Those are not at issue here. Thanks to our founding fathers, you will never succeed in encoding that religious fervor into our laws. They were very clear on equality under the law, which is the issue at hand.
"...and someone also needs to talk to the teens who believe that gay behavior is acceptable/normal/right." What? Talk them out of their own identity search? Their sexual orientation? Sorry, that train left the station a long time ago. No amount of talk, gentle prodding, lecturing, scare tactics or fire and brimstone is going to stop nature from taking its course. Teens are inquisitive and experimental, and have unfettered access to the virtual community. They also have each other. This is not your parents the-birds-and-the-bees conversation.
In the meantime, there is a difference between misplaced blame games and cause and effect. In cases such as these, particularly where school administrators turned a blind eye, there should be consequences, like a scathing write-up becoming a permanent feature of their performance record file. Shrugging ones shoulders and carryng on with business as usual is unacceptable. Guidelines need to be set for school districts on how to handle bullying discipline (regardless of its basis) that clearly define types and degrees of infarctions, criteria by which incidents are ranked, and prescribed graduated consequences.
Age appropriate curriculums starting in elementary school and carried through at least middle school should include mandatory programs specifically targeted on this issue that include instruction on what bullying is, how to identify it, what to do when it happens, where to go to report it, and what the consequences will be for engaging in it. Each student should be required to attend the program at least once and again if they engage in bullying behaviors. They also should be required to attend a refresher class when they advance to middle school. Teachers do not get a free pass either. They should be required to attend a school-sponsored seminar at least once, just so they are on the same page with students and administrators.
As for these bullies, at the very least, suspension is in order, and not just a day or two. Five days might be enough to significantly disrupt their school lives and the lives of their parents (to ensure the issue is taken seriously), especially in light of the devastating impact that the parents of the deceased teens have sustained on their lives, which will never be the same again. At the same time, grief counseling for the bullies during this interim might be considered since death by suicide is part of this picture.
There also should be very low tolerance for repeat offenses, like a 3-strike structure leading up to expulsion or required participation in sensitivity training or rehab. Bullying is not child's play. In the case of Jayron Martin, the bullying behavior was criminal, as was the negligence of the bystanders.
Bullying - Debra
[ In Reply To ..]Many times that's all it takes for a troubled person to take their life, to tell them that what they are doing is wrong in God's eyes. This behavior is a sin and, no matter how many people take their lives because they engage in it, it will never make the behavior right. This is a behavior, not an identity and those who take their own lives are undoubtedly mentally troubled, not to mention ashamed. If only there was someone in their lives who cared enough to try to help them change instead of be so accepting of this sinful behavior. If you believe that people will stop believing that it is wrong, simply because so many are taking their lives because of a choice they make, you are wrong. It is a very sad situation but it is one of their own doing. I know if I had friends or loved ones who engaged in this behavior, I would be working tirelessly to effect a change. There is nothing good about this behavior. It causes disease and death, no matter how you look at it. As I said before, bullying is wrong and should not be tolerated but it is just as wrong to make a person feel ashamed for their beliefs. Christians are ridiculed all the time and bullied. How many Christians do you know who have taken thier lives because someone gave them a hard time? I don't know of any and the reason is because Christians are not ashamed. Open your eyes. These people need help, not acceptance of a deadly behavior. Their lives depend on it.
You are in way over your head here. - sm
[ In Reply To ..]By trying to subtract bullying provocations from the equation, blinding yourself to the fact that these are children we are talking about and taking the blame-the-victim approach, you only succeed in demonstrating how ill equipped you are to have a useful conversation on this subject. The word identity is used here to mean a sense of one's self. By its very nature it is not something someone else can presume to assign to another person, as you are attempting to do, no more than one can presume to assign someone else their own prescribed religious beliefs, as you are also trying to do.
"It is just as wrong to make a person feel ashamed for their beliefs"...your words, not mine, but they should be directed inward where they can do the most good, and not toward future suicidal gay teens and folks alarmed by the sheer numbers of recent gay teen suicides searching for ways to arrest and reverse this disturbing trend. BTW, those teens did not commit suicide just to make people feel ashamed of their beliefs. They did it because they were being relentlessly harrassed and bullied while the grown-ups in charge looked the other way. Hate speech directed toward gays as the underpinning culprit is the issue at hand.
Sexual orienation, identity, traits, characteristics, behaviors, gender identity, roles, etc. are all related to one another but are distinct aspects of an individual's overall identity. Sexual orientation is physical, romantic or emotional attraction to men, women, men and women, or neither gender. The attraction is both powerful and enduring and serves to establish an individual's personal and social sense of self and perceptions of their membership in the community of those WHO SHARE THE SAME ATTRACTIONS. The behaviors are only an expression of sexual orientation. It is not a choice one makes and there are biological, genetic and hormonal components to sexual orientation. For those who do not view science as the big bad boogey man, read more at the link below.
It may come as quite a shock to you that this is not the 1930s and homosexuality is not a mental illness. You can pray until the cows come home, but you cannot change the reality that homosexuality has been with us since the beginning of time. Your Bible has you believing it is synonymous with sin. My common sense tells me it is a function of human nature. The narrow scope you are applying to this very broad spectrum Does. Not. Work.
If you genuinely want to help your alleged poor lost souls, free them from the bondage of your good intentions, dressed up all pretty with hearts and flowers and cloaked with disingenuous compassion and butt out of their personal business. You have to understand a problem before you can find a solution.
http://www.apa.org/topics/sexuality/index.aspx
Just wanted to say thank you. - no1joe
[ In Reply To ..]Your posts were intelligent, to the point, and very, very well written. I plan on reading the articles you posted tomorrow... right now my eyes are crossing from being up too late and on the computer way too long :/ Thank you for taking the time to share.
Bullies come in all shapes and sizes... - no1joe
[ In Reply To ..]and, IMO, the worst ones are those who carry a bible in their hand to justify their behavior.
I'm not even going to get into this too much because it seems like the wall of ignorance is way to sturdy to knock down here; however, I firmly believe that those who are religious and truly think that being gay is a sin (which you have the right to do... not that I agree with it, but it's your right), instead of forcing your views on that person, telling them they are wrong for being who they are and the consequences for their behavior according to your bible, or trying to CHANGE them (seriously?), pray for them (not saying they need it), quietly, in the privacy of your own home or church, between you and YOUR God like a good Christian is supposed to, and the world would be a much nicer place to live in. Forcing anti-gay religious views on people IS a form of bullying, especially if that person is at an impressionable age. Being a teenager is hard enough without someone telling them they are immoral, wrong, going to hell, choosing to engage in behavior that causes disease and death (again, seriously???), etc., and trying to force them to be ashamed of themselves.
And in your last post you asked how many Christians have taken their lives because someone gave them a hard time. Stop and ask yourself this: How to you know that the poor kids who took their lives weren't Christians? Did God disown them for being gay in your opinion? Or do gay people not have the moral integrity to be part of a religious group according to you? The majority of this country is Christian, and with the suicide rate among gay teens being what it is, I'm willing to bet that there have been quite a few Christians out there taking their lives because someone "gave them a hard time."
Long story short: Stop bullying, start praying (quietly). It'll get you closer to God and stop giving my gay friends and family members headaches.
Whoa. What's this? A breath of fresh air and - a voice of reason, on THIS forum?
[ In Reply To ..]I cannot tell you how much I look forward to hearing more from you, especially your feedback on my previous posts. Please be as directly to the point and acutely critical as you were in this excellent post. I too have eyes that are rolling back inside their sockets, so nighty-night for now. Sack time.
I've been called a lot of things in my life... - no1joe
[ In Reply To ..]but a breath of fresh air was NEVER one of them!! lol :D
I have soooo much going on through the rest of the weekend; however, I do plan on printing out the information on your links and taking them with me on a trip to Pennsylvania later. Hopefully I will be able to post a response once I'm there. You'd think that being up on a mountain and that much closer to God that I'd get internet service... usually not the case :/ If not, I'll respond once I'm back.
This is an issue I hold very close to my heart and affects beautiful, caring, gay people whom I love very much. Thank you for being supportive.
You truly are a breath of fresh air. I agree with the other - poster. Thank you.nm
[ In Reply To ..]nm
I'm back - no1joe
[ In Reply To ..]and I've read the links as well as the other posts that have filled in in the interim. I just can't stop shaking my head in disbelief. From this discussion as well as other things I've been exposed to lately, I really think I am going to start offering my support and/or donating time to this cause outside of my little circle of family and friends. What's going on out there is just too much of a shame. Good luck to you and your friends and family. : )
A Christian is... - Debra
[ In Reply To ..]is someone who "strives" to be like Christ. Christ would not commit homosexual acts. He would encourage us to "go and sin no more." Yes, even Christians sin but a Christian would not promote a sin, even if he/she were committing it. Christians don't justify a sin just because they can't or won't stop committing that sin.
Long story short: I'll pray for your friends and family who are committing these sinful acts, that they will change and be closer to God. :)
Zzzzzzzzzzzz. - Wake me up when
[ In Reply To ..]you are done praying and when you realize that Christ would not commit heterosexual acts either, that we are all God's children, that we are all sinners, that only He is in charge of judgement day, that our friends and families did not request your guidance, and that we all are guaranteed our freedom from your self-righteous religious dogma under the law.
You don't know that - see message
[ In Reply To ..]You have absolutely no idea what Christ would have or would not have done, or what he really did or didn't do in his life. You didn't walk with him every day of his life or sit on the mountains listening to him, have dinner with him or know what he did in his personal life with friends. So if you believe it's a sin, fine, that is your belief. But unless someone actually spent time with him on a daily basis and actually knew what he would or would not do in his life I think it's pretentious to know what he would or would not encourage us to do. What you believe he encourages you to do in your daily life is a lot different than what he encourages other people to do in their lives. I also believe Christ would not hate and spew falsehoods which is what a lot of Christians do. I've never seen so many people interpret what the Bible says to meet their own ignorant and hateful feelings towards others. I was brought up that Christ and God is love. Love your neighbors like you love yourselves. Treat others like you want to be treated. Do not think of others less than you think of yourself. You are no better than anyone else. That is the way I was raised. I love all people and people are not sinners because they love someone of a different religion, race, or gender. If people love each other they are worthy of the love in return. If you think love is a sin then I feel very sorry for you that you have not learned the truth about Christs teachings.
1 John 3:15
Anyone who hates another brother or sister is really a murderer at heart. And you know that murderers donât have eternal life within them.
Bigotry violates Christ's commandment to treat others as we want to be treated. Therefore, it's a great sin.
I'll pray for you.
Please get a clue... - Debra
[ In Reply To ..]That's why he gave us the Bible or none of use would know. Some people only read a few parts of the Bible and ignore the rest. Christ's teachings did teach us to hate sin but to love our neighbors. We don't have to love what our neighbors do. If you consider what the Bible teaches us to be falsehoods, I feel sorry for you. I don't hate my "brother" or "sister" but my brother or sister "in Christ" would not commit homosexual acts. In fact the Bible tells us to avoid those who who promote a sinful life. I've never seen so many people who ignore the part of the Bible that tells us that homosexuality is an abomination and even claim it's not there. It's just amazing how ignorant these people are. I would expect to be reviled if I committed homosexual acts because I know God tells me it's wrong. I would expect others to treat me bad for something God tells me is wrong. You are correct. People are not sinners simply because they "love" someone or anyone but they are sinning if they have sexual relations with someone of the same gender. You people tend to get "love" and the actual "sex act" confused. There is a HUGE difference and God seemed to know what it was. And don't start with the argument that Jesus Christ never preached against it. There were many, many sins that were not mentioned by Jesus Chirst in the New Testament but it doesn't mean they are acceptable. He never preached against child molestation, drug addiction, fraud, and many others but this doesn't make those sins acceptable. In fact, prostitution was the ONLY sin that was ever mentioned so, apparently, that's the only sin we have to worry about as long as we are "loving" everyone. Get real.
You need to get a clue - sm
[ In Reply To ..]Who do you think wrote the bible? What they decided to put in and what they decided to leave out and why. Until you study the history you are the one who has no clue.
Some people read it and interpret it to fit their own little sick and perverted beliefs in which they get the meaning so off base, but it makes them feel good. Some churches even will change what the bible says so it "sounds" better, then try to pass it off as though it is truth.
Then you have the twisted and perverted religious whack-jobs that think it's okay to burn certain books.
You can take the bible and interpret it into anything you want and then say it's the will of god. Others would just wish people would stop pushing their sick and perverted religious viewpoint on others as though what they say is the truth.
You didn't walk with Christ every day. You didn't live with him, eat, sleep or listen to him. You were not there with him. Only the people who were closest to him (mother, father, wife, and friends) knew him and what he believed.
You really need to get a clue and any further religious discussion should be on the faith board (that is why we have one). You've taken a political topic and put your religious viewpoints on it and trying to pass it off as the truth. If you want to believe it then that's your prerogative. Hope you enjoy living in that world.
I still say there is nothing in the bible about hating others because of their race, religion, or who they wish to love.
1 John 3:15
Anyone who hates another brother or sister is really a murderer at heart. And you know that murderers donât have eternal life within them.
Bigotry violates Christ's commandment to treat others as we want to be treated. Therefore, it's a great sin.
And you would be correct... - Debra
[ In Reply To ..]There is nothing in the Bible about hating anyone because of who they wish to love but there is about who they wish to have sexual contact with. Read and try to comprehend. ;) I don't hate any brothers or sisters but I sure hate their sinful acts. Big difference.
What I meant to say.... - Debra
[ In Reply To ..]was the Bible does mention hating the sexual act when 2 people of the same gender are involved. The Bible calls it an abomination. You really should stop confusing love with a sexual act that two people of the same gender commit. Most of us are able to see through the smoke. ;)
zzzzzz - - sm
[ In Reply To ..]you are interpreting it to what you want it to be.
Any further discussions on this issue I'll be on the faith board.
No need to discuss further... - Debra
[ In Reply To ..]You lack simple understanding as it is not that difficult to comprehend. It is what it is. Simple...
Good! - sm
[ In Reply To ..]And you've perverted it to what you want it to be. Good luck with that.
End of discussion.
No...it's perverted because it is. End of discussion... - Debra
[ In Reply To ..]`
No, your interpretation is. End of discussion - sm
[ In Reply To ..]You can write all you want. You have determined in your mind that is the way you want it to be.
This topic is about the bible. I do believe that is why they have a faith board.
LOL LOL... - Debra
[ In Reply To ..]`
Debra/Raye... just an observation (repeating myself here) - no1joe
[ In Reply To ..]Okay... I was kinda wondering why someone named Raye was posting away under the topic of the Home Depot with very, VERY similar views as good ol' Debra here (you know... the obsession with "perverted" sex acts and "gay behavior") but never bothered to chime in on this one. I was also wondering why Debra wasn't squawking about the Home Depot too. Both of these subjects have been on the board for a while, so they're pretty much dead posts... but then... poof! A post from Debra AND a post from Raye under the appropriate topics each within minutes of each other and each having to have the last word no matter how ridiculous the statement (another personality flaw). They're the same person.
Now I know that people use different names all the time and answer their own questions so as to make themselves look better (yes, it's crazy, but they do it), but I know that these posts sometimes easily come up under a simple Google search, and I thought it would be nice for someone who is researching this topic and stumbles onto these posts to know that there is 1 less whack-a-doo running around... it's just the same one using 2 different names.
Add KAT to the list too (again repeating myself) - no1joe
[ In Reply To ..]If you've seen the "gay soldier" post from late September. Same writing style... same obsession... same overwhelming need to have the last word. Just sayin'. ;) ;) ;)
And the same could be said.... - Raye
[ In Reply To ..]for all the homosexual supporters/promoters....the EXACT same thing...same style of writing...same urgency to have the last word...the same harrassment of anyone who disagrees. LOL How hypocritical can you get?? Just saying' ;) ;) ;)
Having to have the last word... - mmmmm
[ In Reply To ..]if you think that it is such a personality flaw, why must you engage in it?
There she is! - no1joe
[ In Reply To ..]I'm assuming this is Raye/Kat/Debra/etc. due to the petty nature of this comment. Well, I don't always have to have the last word. I wasn't directing this post to anyone in particular... it was just a general statement to put out there. There was no debate or disagreement here. So what conversation was I having the last word in (duh)? I'm not directing any further comments to you, so feel free to have the last word here because you seem so obsessed with that (almost as much as you are about other things - shameful!).
Oh... and I have a suggestion for you. Your next monkier: PLEASE make it Sybil. It fits. ;)
It appears they think.... - Raye
[ In Reply To ..]we are one and the same. LOL It appears they believe there is only ONE person out there in this big wide world who believes this behavior is just DEAD wrong. It appears they don't believe intelligent minds CAN'T think alike. It appears they think they have ALL the answers. ;)
Bullying is a huge problem.... - Kendra
[ In Reply To ..]and I find it very very sad and tragic that these four young people ended their lives. I think the other young people who bullied them, the school and many other adults along the way share in the blame. Help should have been given. The only thing that I wonder--how many kids who are not gay took their lives due to bullying in this time period? Is that any less tragic? I find it interesting in all aspects of minorities that they scream their heads off about being exactly the same, yet take any opportunity to point out their differences. These events are tragic, whether or not the victims were gay. Why must their lives be used as a platform for the gay agenda, rather than just focusing on the bullying, which is a problem across the board, not just for gays?
It's not "gay agenda" here - no1joe
[ In Reply To ..]There is a difference that needs to be pointed out here. The fact that these kids were being harassed because of their sexual orientation crosses the line from "bullying" to a civil rights violation. The news covered a huge case where "straight" kids took their lives due to bullying a couple years back... it was called Columbine. Granted the media exploited this story because of the fact that the teens went on a rampage before killing themselves, but whatever their motives were to cover the story, it opened the public's eyes to the issue of bullying and the dangerous consequences of it, and school policies across the country have changed because of it. The subject of "bullying" has been very well covered. The fact that the bullying of homosexual teens in particular is still taking place with a blind eye being turned in this post-Columbine era is a different issue altogether. Discrimination against people because of their race, gender, religion, or sexual orientation is a violation against their civil rights and should not be tolerated; harassment or assault of an individual based on their race, gender, religion, or sexual orientation is a hate crime. It is not just gay agenda here... it's a human rights issue.
I disagree... - Kendra
[ In Reply To ..]Why is bullying of any child not treated equally? Minorities scream about wanting equality, yet you want the crime to be worse when it applies to a minority than if it were to apply to my white male straight son. I do not see the difference. A crime is a crime. You feel free to see it however you want, but is it equality that is being striven for, or superiority?
I agree with you Kendra...absolutely!!! - Debra
[ In Reply To ..]This is simply about garnering sympathy for the cause. Many kids are bullied for different reasons...being overweight, shy, too short, too tall, having big teeth, the reasons are numerous, and these kids also can develop emotional issues that cause them to take their lives but the focus is on the kids who "think they are gay." I don't even believe kids are "gay" until they are taught that or made to believe they are by an adult which is the ongoing theme in this country. Accept this behavior so kids can engage in it without shame. It's a deadly behavior, both emotionally and physically. What parent in their right mind would want their children to engage, especially when the parents didn't engage in it themselves?? (Gay parents excluded because there was still someone of the opposite sex involved in producing those children, i.e. a missing parent). The gay agenda is all about sympathy and if they have to get it through the deaths of young people....so be it. I find the behavior (both the sexual acts and their "agendas" disgusting to say the least.
So what is equal about blind eyes being turned - away from cries for help
[ In Reply To ..]when parents repeatedly contact the schools behind protracted bullying? In the case of Jayron Martin, bystanders sat around and watched him take a beating. If this kid were straight, there would be holy h*ll to be paid by all, and you know it.
no1jo is right. It is a clear-cut civil rights issue. There are already antidiscrimination laws in place. There is no equality under the law when there is failure to enforce based on discrimination against of any of those specifially named groups. Its like a double whammy.
P.S. Your superiority dig is uncalled for, Kendra. Your bias is showing (AGAIN) and it is offensive.
I was not being biased, I think you were... - Kendra
[ In Reply To ..]Clearly, you don't like me and that's okay. I can't expect everyone to like or agree with me. I, however, will not attack you personally. I think that bullying is a problem across the board and many many children cry out for help (homosexual and otherwise) and do not get it. I just think that they should be treated equally. Why is it that you consider that biased? Unfortunately, I don't think that any of this would have received the media coverage that it has, had the kids not been homosexual. Where's that bias?
Harrassment should not be tolerated... - Debra
[ In Reply To ..]but I have every right to discriminate based on anything I want. If I don't want to spend time with you because you wear tight pants, I don't have to. That's discrimination and I have every right to do it. It's called the right to disassociate but those involved in the gay agenda wish to term it as discrimination and then have the nerve to say we, as Americans, have no right to do so. These people are good at fooling with "definitions." Lots of people "discriminate" against me. I've been turned down for jobs in my own community (which happens to be in the US) simply because I can't speak Spanish. This is a violation of my civil rights. I can't get a job because I don't want to take Spanish lessons. I am discriminated against because of my race and my language barrier. This should not be tolerated but it is. Bottom line...bullying is wrong but so is the act of homosexuality and many people wish to promote that behavior. So, who gets to decide between right and wrong? Bullying of kids has gone on for centuries just as homosexuality has. It is the emotional trauma that brings a person to commit suicide and it's not always because a person commits homosexual acts. Sometimes it just shame for whatever reason. And sometimes people just don't want to live for other reasons. What if I killed myself because I didn't get the job I wanted because I couldn't speak Spanish? Would that be a hate crime against me because I wasn't Hispanic and didn't know the language?? Hmmmm...I think so. Would that be a violation of my civil rights, the right to work and earn a living if I am qualified to do the job??? Hmmmm... I think so. Lots of things are looked at with blind eyes. You just have a different agenda. ;)
You have outdone yourself, Debra. - sm
[ In Reply To ..]You have no clue what discrimination means and cannot even distinguish it from personal choice. According to you, companies have no right to include bilingual in their own job descriptions because you didn't want to take Spanish lessons and you have a right to demand they give you the job. Uh-huh. Got any idea how silly that sounds? Then you have the utter gall to claim you have a CIVIL right to the job and screech about reverse discrimination against whites and your self-imposed language barrier, demonstrating breath-taking ignorance of even the most basic concepts of civil rights.
Your next disconnect is about how bullying has gone on for centuries. What? Emotional trauma is a direct consequence of bullying over sexual orientation (or for any other reason) and can easily lead to suicide in angst-ridden teens, as we can easily see from these cases. OMG. This dense drivel is making me dizzy and giving me a headache.
Go back to school immediately before your embarrass yourself any further. Enroll in Spanish and snare that bilingual job instead of charging the company with a hate crime after you commit suicide. Whatever, whatever. While you are at it, dont forget to sign up for a civics class, or perhaps one on American government that can help you out with that discrimination/personal choice/civil rights confusion thing.
BTW, Your post is sheer nonsense from A to Z.
For your information... - Debra
[ In Reply To ..]the job description did not say I needed to be bilingual. The ones that do, I don't apply for. We happen to live in a border town and I finally found a job in a doctors office where the surgeon felt that if the patients wanted to be understood, they had better bring an interpreter with then and they hired me. You have no idea what you are talking about. I live in the US. I shouldn't have to learn to speak a foreign language just to find a job. If I lived in Mexico...sure. Not here in the US. What are you rambling about? I just said that emotional trauma is the cause of some suicides. Why are you arguing about something that I already agreed to. Maybe you should stop the meds already. ;)
why are you talking to yourself - sm
[ In Reply To ..]All through this board you keep replying to yourself. I read a couple of your posts to know I don't want to read much more. Your posts are quite rude and I'm thinking why are you being rude to yourself. LOL. Here in this post you keep asking yourself questions and answering them.
I'd say try replying to other people's posts and you might have a better conversation, but whatever floats your boat.
You're just too funny...LOL - Debra
[ In Reply To ..]`
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