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Ask the card-carrying


Posted: Apr 16, 2010

Ask the card-carrying socialists: Is Obama one of them?

By John Blake, CNN
April 15, 2010 6:27 p.m. EDT
STORY HIGHLIGHTS
  • Obama has been called a socialist but what do actual socialists say?
  • Socialist leader: Obama isn't even a liberal
  • Socialists say many Americans already accept socialism
  • Tea Party member: Obama wants to spread the wealth

(CNN) -- Billy Wharton should be happy.

"Socialized health care" is on its way. The "socialist agenda" is taking over America. And best of all, Barack Obama, a "committed socialist ideologue," is in the Oval Office.

But Wharton, co-chair of the Socialist Party USA, sees no reason to celebrate. He's seen people with bumper stickers and placards that call Obama a socialist, and he has a message for them: Obama isn't a socialist. He's not even a liberal.

"We didn't see a great victory with the election of Barack Obama," Wharton says, " and we certainly didn't see our agenda move from the streets to the White House."

Are many Americans secret socialists?

Obama's opponents have long described him as a socialist. But what do actual socialists think about Obama? Not much, says Wharton.

"He's the president whose main goal is to protect the wealth of the richest 5 percent of Americans."

He and others say the assertion that Obama is a socialist is absurd.

"It makes no rational sense. It clearly means that people don't understand what socialism is."

Definitions of socialism vary, but most socialists believe workers and consumers who are affected by economic institutions should own or control them.

Not all socialists, though, want to confiscate personal property. Democratic Socialists are more interested in protecting ordinary people from unregulated capitalism through regulation and progressive taxation.

Some of the socialist agenda is already part of American life, according to Wharton and others.

Social Security, Medicare, unemployment benefits -- all reflect socialistic values, says Van Gosse, an associate professor of history at Franklin & Marshall College in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, who has researched socialist movements in the United States and Latin America.

The widely accepted notions of public education and Pell Grants for college students are socialistic in origin, Gosse says. They fit well with the socialistic premise that government should provide basic security from the cradle to the grave to all of its citizens, he says.

"We assert that education should not be left up to the private market -- where those who can pay, get it and those who can't, don't get it," Gosse says. "It's a common good and in that sense it is a socialistic institution even if the U.S. remains a capitalist nation."

Why socialists hate Obama's health care bill

Those who call Obama a socialist, though, point to his policies. Big on their hit list: "Obamacare," which they call "socialized medicine."

It makes no rational sense. It clearly means that people don't understand what socialism is.
--Billy Wharton, socialist leader
RELATED TOPICS
  • Tea Party Movement
  • Barack Obama

Socialists scoff at the notion. They don't applaud the passage of the recent health care bill either. They wanted a national "single-payer" health insurance plan with a government option. The bill that Obama championed didn't have any of those features.

Wharton said the new health care bill only strengthens private health insurance companies. They get 32 million new customers and no incentive to change -- something a socialist wouldn't accept.

"Most of it was authored by the health care industry," Wharton says. "I call it the corporate restructuring of health care."

Other critics point to Obama's Wall Street bailout -- which actually had its roots in the Bush administration. Critics say it's socialistic for government to assume control of private industry.

Frank Llewellyn, national director of the Democratic Socialists of America, says the bailout had nothing to do with socialism.

Llewellyn says a socialist leader would have at least nationalized some of the troubled banks.

"He gave them [the banks] too much with no strings attached," Llewellyn says. "Banks that were too big to fail are bigger, and they can still fail."

How about Obama's bailout of the Detroit auto industry? During the bailout, the federal government assumed partial ownership of General Motors.

"It's not socialism," Llewellyn says. "The mere fact that the government owns something or has a stake in it, doesn't make it socialist. If that was true, you would say that we have a socialist army. The government owns the army."

Defining socialism is complex, Llewellyn says, but it starts with a simple goal: Socialists want to introduce democratic features into the economy to reduce inequality.

The economy has "to be run for the overall benefit of the entire population, not for the benefits of a very few people."

By that measure, Obama's economic policies are not socialist, he says.

"He's trying to save capitalism from itself rather than a radical trying to change into a new system," Llewellyn says.

This kind of name-calling is not new. Civil rights demonstrators and the politicians who passed Medicare were also called socialists and communists, Llewellyn says.

"Every time an expansion of the public's right has been put forward, Republicans have called it extreme, communistic and socialistic. It's a repeated tactic because they can't defeat the idea."

A Tea Party member explains why Obama is a socialist

Those arguments don't sway Conrad Quagliaroli, a Tea Party member who says Obama is a socialist.

He says that Obama's voting record as a senator was more to the left than the U.S. Senate's sole socialist, Bernie Sanders of Vermont.

He says Obama's association with radicals and his pledge to "spread the wealth" seal his socialistic credentials.

"The role of government is to provide a safe environment to conduct business, not to take from one and give to the other," says Quagliaroli, a financial planner who lives in Woodstock, Georgia.

Quagliaroli was not persuaded by the arguments of other socialist leaders who reject the idea that Obama is a socialist.

"He's just not socialist enough for them."

Quagliaroli says he doesn't like socialism because it breeds mediocrity and encourages people to "live on the dole." Capitalism "breeds excellence" because it encourages initiative, he says.

The role of the government is to provide a safe environment to conduct business, not to take from one and give to the other.
--Conrad Quagliaroli, Tea Party member

Does that mean that Quagliaroli will refuse his Social Security checks, a government program that has been described as socialistic, and which he opposes?

Not necessarily, says Quagliaroli. He says he'll accept his Social Security checks for two reasons.

"They confiscated it from me to begin with, and the more money they give me, the less they'll have to waste," he says. "I can spend it better than they can. I don't pay $500 for a hammer."

The argument over Obama's ideology may rage on, but at least one socialist says another prominent politician ought to be inserted into the debate.

Llewellyn, the national director of the Democratic Socialists of America, says he was struck by one player in the 2008 presidential elections who displayed more socialistic leanings than Obama.

This candidate raised taxes on the big oil companies, and sent the revenue to the people.

If you want to learn something about spreading the wealth, Llewellyn says, don't look to Obama.

"To be honest, the most socialist candidate in the 2008 election was Sarah Palin."

;

Great article. You won't hear this from the right wing. (nm) - Nikki

[ In Reply To ..]
NM

Ron Paul brought this up during his speech at SRLC. - LVMT

[ In Reply To ..]
I know there is a link to a shortened version in a post below. I know he is not the greatest public speaker, but he tells it like it is. The full speech is worth a listen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klIZ0Bks6pc



WAY too long. Bottom line. Ron Paul Quote: - Pres Obama is NOT a socialist unquote. nm

[ In Reply To ..]
nm
LOL. There is a little more to the quote. He is a Corporatist.nm - LVMT
[ In Reply To ..]
nm
LOL. There certainly is. He talked about how many of them - there are in the GOP. nm
[ In Reply To ..]
nm
NOW you're getting it!!!! He NOT what he appears!!! - sm
[ In Reply To ..]
Keep'em stupid should be his motto!! This is why Ron Paul is so popular because he understands where the problems actually lie! They are in BOTH parties. O is all about PADDING HIS OWN pockets somewhere down the line, as well as all his thug friends AFTER he is out of office and BEFORE.

If he were concerned about the citizens of this country, he WOULD have done what he said he would do and lied BIG TIME.... he didn't throw the first lobbyist out.....matter of fact, he brought in MORE than any other president!!

Get a clue!
That's right...he called him a "corporatist" - which made O look more a thug...sm
[ In Reply To ..]
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/04/ron-paul-president-obama-is-not-a-socialst.php
Along with most of the GOP, who accurately fit the definition. - Obama is demonstably NOT. nm
[ In Reply To ..]
nm
The truth isn't popular....is it? He's padding those pockets! - Thug mentality at its finest...
[ In Reply To ..]
nm
Sweetie, the thugs are on the right side of the aisle. - Get it straight.
[ In Reply To ..]
What does your post have to do with the truth?
Sweetie, they are on BOTH SIDES OF THE ISLE! - Gimme mentality!!
[ In Reply To ..]
nm

Wasn't it Hugo Chavez himself who - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
said that if Obama keeps going the route he is going....he will be further left than he is. Comforting, huh? Keep putting your head in the sand.

Even the Jewish people where in denial about Hitler and look what happened to a lot of them.

Nice post and how very true!!! - anon

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

Well, my first reaction was a laugh, but hey I'll ask - anyway

[ In Reply To ..]
ummmmmm, can you think of an ulterior motive possibly for Chavez saying that....huh? huh? huh?

I won't laugh because you are just sad. - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
I truly feel sorry for you people who believe Obama is the great man of change. I feel sorry for you people who think that bigger government means more freedom because it means just the opposite. I feel sorry for you people who think that a national day of prayer is unconstitutional but forcing the citizens to have healthcare is just fine and dandy. I feel sorry for you people who think that it is okay to punish success and reward laziness. I feel sorry for you people who hear Obama's lies and yet still defend him by calling those oppose him racist and violent. Are you guys really that blind because if you really are...I do feel bad for you because you have a rude awakening coming.
What the? I asked a simple question - aren't you capable of - yes or no
[ In Reply To ..]
Who said I'm a "you people?" You mentioned something Hugo Chavez said as if you believe it.

All I asked is if you could think of an ulterior motive he may have for saying something like that about the President of the United States.
And we feel sorry for you right back. You are truly presumptuous - to say one way of the other
[ In Reply To ..]
why people support Obama or what they do or do not believe, especially when the bulk of your post is more worn out propaganda regurg. Particularly offensive is your stupid comment about punishing success and rewarding laziness, which I take personally, since I have worked for 44 years nonstop and find myself unemployed over the last 5 months and drawing benefits Thank GOD for those benefits. Without them, I would be homeless at age 61. Kindly do us all a favor and spare us your sympathy. It is uncalled for and certainly not needed coming from the likes of you.
Funny how we cannot lump you libs into one group - sm
[ In Reply To ..]
without offending but you have no problem lumping tea partiers into one group and calling them all racist and violent.

I have no problem giving people a hand up if they need it....I'm tired of the handouts. If you cannot distinguish between those two....well..sorry you just don't get it.
Who are you talking to? I addressed my comments - specifically to you.
[ In Reply To ..]
I didn't lump anybody with anybody. You do not distinguish between handouts either. You would rather slam 17+ million people in one fell swoop for the sake a pontificating over a small minority. You obviously have no clue whatsoever just how successful Clinton's welfare reform has been.
You have a problem with - sm
[ In Reply To ..]
slamming 17+ million people for a small minority but some of you have no problem changing the health care for the entire country for a minority who doesn't have or doesn't want health care? Explain that to me.
Why don't you ask Hugo? He'll tell you the real - truth :P
[ In Reply To ..]
lol
There is a big difference between - Trigger Happy
[ In Reply To ..]
receiving unemployment after losing a job of 44 years than playing the system and mooching off of the government in lieu of working at all. This administration wants the rich to pay for everything when the rich pay for over half of our taxes right now. Why work your butt off and take chances to be successful when the govt is just going to take it away from you and give to some woman who has 6 kids and is living off of welfare, food stamps, and govt subsidized housing. I've seen some of these people on welfare who don't want to work and each time they pop out a kid WE pay for it. They stand in line at the store with a cart load full of junk that they buy with food stamps but yet they have their nails done professionally, their hair all done up, and they have nicer mobile phones than I do. So explain to me how that is fair? Explain to me why you can't see the difference between helping those who are trying to better themselves versus giving handouts to those who want just that....a handout. People used to be too proud to receive a handout and now a lot of lazy Americans have no problem holding out their hand stating that we owe them. It is just sickening and this administration is doing nothing but enabling those moochers who are just too lazy to do for themselves.

Now THAT calls for a nice long belly laugh. - Dont hold your breath waiting for the answer. nm

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

You're quoting Hugo Chavez in hopes of - affirmation????

[ In Reply To ..]
What in the world are you doing?

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