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Religion and Homosexuality

Posted: Jun 21, 2013

How do all you religious people feel when someone who is gay, attempts suicide because they've been told since they were little that it is a sin and they will burn in hell? Gay is not a choice. I suppose acting on it is, but BEING it is not a choice, any more than you or I who are straight. I just think it's very sad that our youth can't go to the their family with this, because they've been brainwashed into thinking they'll burn in hell. So they attempt suicide out of shame and fear, and everyone in the family is "shocked" that they would attempt such a thing. To me, it's a no-brainer as to why the kid did it and why he or she didn't go to their family with their thoughts. If you can't depend on your parents, who can you depend on? In these families, you can't go to the religious leader, either--they're the ones preaching all this sin and burning in hell. I am just speaking from personal experience within the family. My parents were crying when my brother slashed his wrists-- ohhhh...where did we go wrong, blah, blah, blah. Duh! You've been telling the kid he's going to burn in hell if he's gay since he was like 3 years old. ;

My thoughts... Sm - Old Woman

[ In Reply To ..]
First of all, I am so sorry for the loss of your brother. I cannot imagine the anguish this young man must have felt that caused him to take such a drastic action. I am also sorry that he felt that he could not go to his parents because of what they had taught him from a young age, an age that was far to young to understand their teachings on the matter.

I am one of those "religious people" in that I believe in Jesus Christ and His teachings in the Bible. I personally do not believe that homosexuality is a choice because I believe that God made man in His own image and He would not have made something contrary to what He is. The Bible clearly states that homosexuality is a sin and that a man should not lie with a man as he would a woman. With that said, my belief is that homosexuality, like all other sin, entered into the world because of the free choice given to man by God. One chooses to sin, whether by saying one is gay or by stealing or by lying or by committing adultery, etc. We are born with a sin nature and a free will. Whether we act upon our inclination to sin is yet another choice we make.

I would hope that, if faced with any kind of problem, up to and including homosexuality, that my children could come to me with it and that I would be understanding of their choice. I have two cousins who see themselves as being gay. They have gone to their parents, or "come out of the closet," and were met with understanding and know that their parents love them, even if they do not approve of their lifestyle. Both battle with depression, which I personally believe is a consequence or result of their decision to participate in a gay lifestyle, but it is not my place to judge them or condemn them, and I do not treat them any differently than I do other family members who are of the "straight" lifestyle.

I hope this makes sense to you and that I have not offended you. I merely wanted to offer my viewpoint.

Not offended - but...

[ In Reply To ..]
I doubt their depression is because they are homosexual and decided to act on it. I would reckon their depression is because someone had already drummed into their head that they are horrible, bad, sinners. While offering support now is commendable, having pre-put them down before the fact is the cause for the horrible depressed feelings they have.

We do need to make the distinction between HAVING feelings and ACTING on them. This is not limited to gay people. We all HAVE feelings, and to call everyone a sinner for having the feelings is a terrible thing. However, just because we as humans have feelings, it doesn't mean we have to act on them.

In general, I do find this whole sinner thing for having certain feelings quite offensive. I think calling people sinners for having certain feelings is quite the recipe for creating a child with depression, OCD, suicidal thoughts/attempts, who knows what else. Gosh, the kid can't win. They're not even allowed to have a feeling?

I promise you, your kids probably won't come to you with that attitude. It's almost like you are saying one thing, but they know you're feeling another. "You can come to me, but know that I think you're a sinner and will go to hell, so we'll pray and try to exorcise these feelings out of you so you don't."

Quick! There's a human feeling! Let's get it out of here!

Apparently, I did offend you, sm - Old Woman

[ In Reply To ..]
And that certainly was not my intention. You asked us "religious people" for an opinion, and I gave you mine in a manner that I had hoped would not be offensive.

See, here is where the disconnect is between us "religious people" and those who are not. When we refer to sinners, we include ourselves in that group, or at least I do. I know that I am a sinner and no better than anyone else. I have a sin nature just like anyone else, and I work daily to keep from giving in to it.

With that said, I would like to address this statement you made and then be on my way. You stated " I think calling people sinners for having certain feelings is quite the recipe for creating a child with depression, OCD, suicidal thoughts/attempts, who knows what else. Gosh, the kid can't win. They're not even allowed to have a feeling?" Certainly, they are allowed to have a feeling. The difference, as you pointed out earlier, is making the distinction between HAVING those feelings and ACTING on them.

I'm sorry that I offended you. Hope the rest of your day is a good one.

I truly am not offended - But I find the concept offensive

[ In Reply To ..]
I really am not offended, because regardless of how you view me (as a sinner), I know that I am not a sinner.

I believe the viewpoint is quite offensive, though, to the human race.

I'm glad you feel your kids would come to you if they were gay or did something else human that you find to be imperfect and sinful.

Just giving pause to thought. Just because your kid wants to reassure you that you're a great parent, it doesn't mean they'll come to you. Think about it (all of you very holy Christians), who call your kids sinners.

gay son - proud to be

[ In Reply To ..]
I so completely agree. I watched my son, who from the age of 12 try to commit suicide and it took him until he was 17 to tell me that he was gay. To be honest I was relieved, now I understood where the attempted suicide came from. I saw the pain he was going through, not wanting to be "this way," tried to like girls, etc., but that was not who he is. Even though I am a strong Catholic my son was much more important to me than the Catholic Church and I knew I had to support him. It took him until his late 20s to be able be comfortable in his own skin through a supportive family who just kept telling him we accept him as he is and his partners would always be welcome at our table. He just within the past few years been able to publicly state that he is gay. We have had many, many talks about him being gay and that it breaks my heart to know that he will be ridiculed for who he is. This has not been a choice he made, no more than choosing the color of his eyes or color of his hair. God made him gay. Believe me when I say if he could have been different he would have been. I did not choose to be attracted to men and he cannot choose who he is attracted to either. I have lost friends over this, feel disconnected to my religion, but I will not disconnect from my son because of all the struggles he has gone through. That is why I know he did not choose this lifestyle. This has brought us so much closer and we talk just like my daughters and I talk. We talk about everything including sex. Since my son has finally accepted himself I have watched him go from an angry, angry person to someone who now slowly started to fight for gay rights.

So I will say I am proud to be a mother of a gay man. For everyone who says this is wrong I understand where you are coming from. I understand all the issues with the church and commandments, and if I am wrong then I will be judged by God and that is the only judgement I will accept.

Thank you for - Standing by your son

[ In Reply To ..]
You truly walked the talk. You didn't tell him you are going to try to pray this away. You told your son that he is more important than some interpretation of the scriptures. He should be proud to have you as a parent.

Actually, my experience in this whole thing is that the evangelistic types, super holy roller types (for want of a better word--no offense meant), are worse than the Catholics when it comes to condeming humans for having feelings.

I do want to mention, that no where in the 10 commandments does it mention anything related to being gay.

You sound like an amazing mom. Wish you - were my mom! NM.

[ In Reply To ..]
.

She does sound amazing - see msg

[ In Reply To ..]
She does sound truly amazing, someone who knows the true meaning of loving her child. She is allowing their child to shine and not made to feel horrible about himself. Gay people deserve God and Christ just like straight people do. Always, though we should teach about monogomy and not being promiscuous, no matter who you are.

Thank you to this mom. I hope the parents who need it most are reading this.

I know that you won't like my reply. Living a gay - wannie

[ In Reply To ..]
lifestyle is a choice, just the same as continuing to live as an alcoholic, a drug addict or being overweight. God didn't create any of us as alcoholics, drug addicts or fat. He made us in His image, which is perfect. What with do with the image He gave us is a choice plain and simple. Don't mean to sound harsh, but that's just simply the way it is. My reply will probably not be a popular one, but that's okay, too. You asked a question. I answered the best way I know how.

I agree to a point - OP

[ In Reply To ..]
I do believe that lifestyle is a choice. What I don't believe is that feelings are a choice. One can choose to act on their gay feelings, or they can choose not to. One can choose to take a drink, take a drug, stuff their face. But they cannot choose that they feel like they want to do whatever. I do believe attitude is a choice, which is different from a feeling.

The part that gets me is that you people feel you must be perfect. That is sad to me. All this striving to be perfect sounds quite emotionally draining if you ask me. And expecting your kids to be? You'll be the last to hear about it if they do/feel something you consider imperfect.

FYI: Having sexual feelings for someone outside the little appropriate package is not an imperfection. It's just a human thing.

I don't feel like I'm perfect at all. I make so many - wannie

[ In Reply To ..]
mistakes. I'm not even striving for perfection. I'm just trying to live a life that pleases my Heavenly Father. As far as my kids not telling me things. So far from the truth. They are grown now, but when they were younger, they shared me many things with me that they knew I would NOT approve of, but also knew that their mama loved them and that I would never, ever, ever turn my back on them. Approve, no. Change the way I felt about them, never.

You're right, attitude is a choice and is different from a feeling. The choice comes in acting on feelings. There are days that I feel like quitting my job, walking away from all my responsibilites, throwing things against the wall, et cetera. The problem would come if I chose to act on those feelings. I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this. I don't think I can change your mind about the rightness or wrongness of homosexuality or whether one is born that way or chooses that lifestyle, and I know that nobody can change my mind.

So, with that said, I'll try to leave this subject alone because I truly don't want to cause any hard feelings. I hope you have a very blessed afternoon!

You do not strike me as - OP

[ In Reply To ..]
You do not strike me as one of those types that like to go around calling everyone sinners. You sound perfectly reasonable to me.

We can teach our children to live upstanding lives, without teaching them to be ashamed for merely walking the face of the earth.

You have a blessed day as well!

To the OP... - believing MT

[ In Reply To ..]
I was reading your post and the ones that followed and I feel your issue is really between you and God. You see, these are not our rules, that homosexuality is a sin, and those that practice such are going to hell.

It is written in God's Word many many times what the rules are, who goes to His heaven, what He allows and what He punishes, etc.

Examples of scriptures are:

Genesis 19: 1-11
Leviticus 18:22
Leviticus 20:13
I Cor. 6:9-11
I Tim. 1:8-10

1 Corinthians 6:9-11
Don't you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don't fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality, or are thieves, or greedy people, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat people-none of these will inherit the Kingdom of God. Some of you were once like that. But you were cleansed; you were made holy; you were made right with God by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. (NLT)

Also you mentioned that you are not a sinner, which sadly to say we all are. Romans 3:10 says there is none righteous no, not one. It's not a horrible thing to be a sinner, we are just in need of a Savior and we have that in Jesus Christ who can save us, forgive us and give us eternal life in Heaven. He knows what kind of people we are and having a sinful nature, that's why He died on the cross to save us from our sins and we can have fellowship with Him. It's an awesome relationship. Nothing will satisfy you in this life...only Christ. Our flesh is a bottomless pit, never satisfied, but the Spirit of God satisfies the soul with pure contentment, joy, love, and wonderful peace.

God loves the sinner, he just condemns sin. His Word says this, He makes the rules. You may not like it or don't agree with it, which is your choice, but there is a consequence for that choice. We either choose Heaven or hell. That's it. We don't go to heaven on our terms and we don't make up the rules how to be a christian. They are already made up for us.

Sometimes it's hard to understand or accept, and our hearts just aren't ready for it.

God created us for His glory, not ours and not to do what we want and practice whatever we want and then want to go to His kingdom. It just doesn't work that way.

I would encourage you to seek the Lord and get into His word and He will show you who He is if you have a heart wanting to really know, and He will reveal Himself. He is waiting for you as He is knocking on your heart door right now. You won't be dissapointed!

Thank you - But

[ In Reply To ..]
I'll pass. I do not want to walk around feeling guilty for being alive. I'm quite content, thank you, and I quite do not believe my gay friends or family are going to hell because you say so. The bible is interpretation by humans. It wasn't even originally written in English, if my facts are correct. So, we have first a translation by humans then interprtation by humans. How do you know those humans weren't homophobes or something? That's a rhetorical question.

I appreciate you trying to save me, but please do not knock on my door.

this may help... - believing MT

[ In Reply To ..]
The Bible was actually written in 3 languages, Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek.

When it comes to authorship of the Bible, of course men were involved. Christians would be the first to point this out. For example, Paul wrote letters to early churches that are included in the Scriptures (2 Peter 3:15–16). David wrote many of the Psalms. Moses wrote the Pentateuch, or the Torah (the first five books of the Bible). In fact, it is estimated that over 40 different human authors were involved.2 So, this is not the issue.

The issue is this: did God have any involvement or not?

When one claims that God was not inspiring the human authors of the Bible, that person is claiming to be omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent!

1.Omniscient: they are claiming to be an all-knowing authority on the subject of God’s inspiration, to refute God’s claim that Scripture was inspired by Him (2 Timothy 3:16).
2.Omnipresent: they are claiming that they were present, both spiritually and physically, to observe that God had no part in aiding any of the biblical authors.
3.Omnipotent: they are claiming that if God had tried to help the biblical authors, then they had the power to stop such an action.

Only God can save you. No one person can. Actually I have so much more freedom in Christ than walking around with sin controlling me. I come from a pretty bad past, learning on the streets, jail, drugs, running away as a teenager, etc. And this is freedom compared to that bondage. I have forgiveness of sins, peace, true joy. No guilt, no shame, no condemnation.

A sin is a sin, it all offends God. The consequences can vary but a sin is a sin.

My intentions were only to direct the way to God and to have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

Glad you found your way - OP

[ In Reply To ..]
I am glad you are now living a more peaceful, directed life.

I do believe God inspired the Bible, but man did translate and interpret it. It therefore is open for "error" and man's own interpretation of what something might mean.

Take the story of Onan: He spilled his seed. The catholics take this to mean that birth control by withdrawal is wrong. Others (catholics included) said it means not to pleaure one's self. Nobody really knows...The Bible is full of that sort of thing--open to interpretation to "prove" one's own viewpoint.

What is God's image, anyway? Does he have - a sexual orientation?

[ In Reply To ..]
I've been under the impression that God was asexual.

Thanks for responses - OP

[ In Reply To ..]
Well, thank you for all your comments. I am somewhat saddened that there are many people who are convinced, should their child be gay, that their child is condemned. I guess I can only hope that your child has someone in his or her life (school teacher, school counselor or other trusted adult) that they can go to and not feel condemned. They need to feel not so all alone in this. They probably will not come to you, on account of your current obvious beliefs.

I appreciate those truly good and warm hearted relgious people who commented here. Bless you and thank you for loving and accepting your children/child for who they are. Nobody really knows what God wants, but I believe my God wants me to love and accept those who mean no harm, not condemn them.

Thanks to everyone for your honest comments. My heart did good with the woman who "saw the light" with her son who is gay, and chose not to follow some horrible viewpoint that her church indoctrinated into her. I do believe her turnaround helped her son and he can breathe a sigh of relief. It sounds like he is no longer suicidal.

Just my thought - SM

[ In Reply To ..]
I feel church doors should be open to each and every one regardless of what they have done, or any thoughts they may have. The final judgment is up to God. It is not the place of any religion to condem anyone. It is a place where all should be welcome. I thinking preaching God's love and acceptance will help more people than anything else.

I Agree - OP

[ In Reply To ..]
That is a lovely comment. I personally would not go through or recommend anyone go through the doors of an evangelistic-type place if they are needing guidance because of sexual confusion, or actually, anything. They'll just get hit with being a sinner and brainwashed into thinking they need the Lord to abolish their feelings.

Mind you, I don't like those "just feel good" places, either. The don't seem to have doctrine of any sorts.

If being gay condemns, so does gluttony, adultery, - Don't see how 1 is worse than the other

[ In Reply To ..]
I honestly don't understand why being gay is so offensive, but being a glutton or a bigot or a cheater is not as bad.

I do not understand, either - see msg

[ In Reply To ..]
I don't understand the mentality, either. It's almost like some people want to condemn those who mean no harm (gay people, for instance), but they don't speak out against true evil. Go figure.

Not a religious person - BUT

[ In Reply To ..]
Before my son could even string together two words, we suspected he was gay: using his hooded bath towel as long hair; wearing one of my nightshirts as a gown; singing that song Ariel sings in the Little Mermaid (beautifully); insisting on being a princess for Halloween and later, at 4, insisting on being a witch. Of course, we tried to talk him out of a lot of that, without directly forbidding it, but most of it we let go as an expression of who he is/was, just as others are allowed to express themselves. There have been other indicators since then, some of which we have talked with him about. No one who knows him would say he had a choice in how he was born. He may or may not ever come out of the closet, but if he does, he knows he has a host of family, friends and teachers to support him and help him grow to be a healthy adult who accepts and loves himself and others, with no fear of burning in hell. Some day, you may see him on stage or on the silver screen, or perhaps see his name as producer or director of a brilliant film, and wonder why on earth God or anyone else would condemn such a bright light to hell for being his authentic self. **steps off soapbox** :-)

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