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Parsing the tea party


Posted: Apr 18, 2010

Parsing the tea-party logic

I went to one of those tea-party tax protests last week and found it didn't fit the crudest media stereotypes. They were friendly, not a bunch of whack jobs in training for the militia, as they are sometimes portrayed.

Seattle Times staff columnist

The tea partiers aren't crazy. Maybe they're just living in an alternate universe.

I went to one of those tea-party tax protests last week and found it didn't fit the crudest media stereotypes. They were friendly, not a bunch of whack jobs in training for the militia, as they are sometimes portrayed.

The ones I met didn't even seem all that angry.

But: I do wonder if the tea partyers and I live on the same planet.

For instance, several speakers inspired the crowd with stories about how the most courageous and noble people left are the capitalists. Because they bravely walk the road of struggle against a powerful, socialistic bureaucracy.

And I'm thinking — didn't the capitalists just nearly destroy capitalism? Only to be saved by the socialists?

Didn't all that happen just a year and a half ago?

Then there's the matter of taxes.

"Born Free, Taxed to Death," read one tea-party sign. "Tax Slaves Unite," said another. "Welcome to France," read a third.

That was a strong theme — the way our Marxist government incessantly gropes in our pockets for more of our hard-earned money.

A cry went up: "Taxes Suck!"

Yes they do. But here's something else about taxes, at least the federal kind. Did you know that total federal tax receipts, as a percentage of the size of the economy (gross domestic product), are now the lowest in 60 years?

You have to travel back to 1950 for a time when the feds sucked so little of the economy up in taxes. We now pay only 6.4 percent of GDP in individual income taxes, more than a third lower than 10 years ago. Corporate income taxes are the lowest since 1936.

(To see this data, go to the U.S. Government Printing Office Web site of historic budget tables, www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/fy11/hist.html, and click on Table 2.3.)

These factoids won me no love at the Taxed Enough Already (TEA) rally.

But they're true. Multiple rounds of tax-cutting since 2000, spanning both Republican and Democratic presidents, have been so thorough that half of Americans now pay no individual income taxes.

Hurray! We're not France after all. We're Monaco!

OK, not exactly. Last year 14.8 percent of the U.S. economy went to all federal taxes (which includes Social Security and Medicare taxes). That's hardly nothing, but it's a lot less than a decade ago.

So what, exactly, are these protesters protesting?

Bryan Suits, a talk-radio host on conservative AM station 570 KVI, is, he says, "one of the angry taxpayers." He spoke at last week's rally. I told him I don't follow the tea-party logic, so he agreed to be a guide.

It's the spending, stupid, he said. Suits, to his credit, acknowledged taxes have gotten lower. What rankles him is the way the money is used. The bailouts. The huge stimulus package. The new entitlement program created by the health-care bill.

"If I paid only one dollar in federal taxes, I'd still be outraged by the AIG bailout or the GM takeover," he said.

It's also the reckless and unsustainable deficits.

All right, now we're getting somewhere. I'm with Suits on that last part about the deficits, so much so I could just about sign up for the tea party.

Or I could if the tea party were serious.

The trouble is, they don't have much appetite for cutting Medicare, Social Security or military spending. They want even lower taxes. Put these views together and the math says the budget can't balance. Even if you eliminate 100 percent of everything else.

So what they fall back on are old gimmicks, such as a balanced-budget amendment to the Constitution.

The tea party's focus on deficits is right on. But it needs to get real. It needs a Ross Perot-like figure to spell out an honest plan — one that's probably going to have both tax increases and spending cuts (as Bill Clinton pushed through).

Also, drop the red-scare rhetoric. And run as fast as you can from bumper-sticker simpletons like Sarah Palin.

Otherwise, this tea party's stuck in Wonderland.

;

Well, that guy is nuts, period! nm - GoAway

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

You know what's nuts? One-liners - stating

[ In Reply To ..]
mere opinions. Got anything to discuss? Maybe some foundation for your opinion? Some grownup debate? Facts to back your opinion? Something besides nuts?

I am curious too. I thought he made some - sense out of a group of

[ In Reply To ..]
people who have not made sense.

Statements and sentiments like this are the reason no one will ever - take this party seriously.

[ In Reply To ..]
Facts are facts are facts are facts. You cannot wish them away or turn you back on them, ignore them or pretend they don't exist. They stick to you like glue. Individual income tax lower in 60 years. Corporate taxes lowest in 74 years. It's a matter of spinless public record. Deal with it.

Unless tpots can come to terms with this one HUGE deficit in their movement (anaphylactic allergy to those pesky and inconvenient truths), they will never rise above the status of being the butt of a joke. And THAT'S a fact, Jack!

As the saying goes, "you are entitled to your - own opinion, you are not

[ In Reply To ..]
entitled to your own facts."
I agree. Neither are you. Now, take a look at the - big bad facts....
[ In Reply To ..]
The article provided you with a link to the spin-free historical income tax data. It also provided simple, clear instructions on how to access the data that even a 5th grader could follow, so give it a try, then look at the first two columns, which beautifully substantiate the fact that appears below:

The Fact: You have to travel back to 1950 for a time when the feds sucked so little of the economy up in taxes. We now pay only 6.4 percent of GDP in individual income taxes, more than a third lower than 10 years ago. Corporate income taxes are the lowest since 1936.

The Link: (To see this data, go to the U.S. Government Printing Office Web site of historic budget tables

www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/fy11/hist.html

Then CLICK ON TABLE 2.3.

This is why the GOP, cons and tpots need to come to terms with facts. If they don't, they just end up making fools of themselves. Like I said before. Facts won't go away. They stick to you like glue. Deal with it.
Keep singing that tune. It simply isnt true - Country is in the toilet, unfortunately
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Spout figures,data, but what is happening is that the economy in truth is terrible. Our debt, deficit is growing. Obama spends spends spends, yet jobs are NOT being created, we will have a VAT soon, and health care is going to be a disaster. I hate to be all doom and gloom, but how you can see things like a blooming flower when its just the opposite is amazing. Its nice to be hopeful, but you also have to deal with what is really happening. Denial Denial.. didnt work long for Clinton either.
No, there's just a big log in your personal - punch bowl
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Time to change that punch. Wash that bowl and make yourself a new batch.
8 links in have a read post below address the IMPROVING economy - from several different viewpoints....
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Before opening your mouth about the economy, perhaps you need to familiarize yourself with the concept of economic indicators. Articles providing analyses with contributions from Warren Buffett, bankers, capitalists, realtors, business, and investment managers are there for the taking just 5 posts under your own.

Please spare us the apology for your intractabe denials. This is not a question of hope, dear. It's cold hard fact backed up 9 ways to Sunday.

Jobs creation is always a lagging indicator, with unemployment being the LAST thing to improve during an economic recovery. Read up. Even those indices have improved by leaps and bounds since Obama took office. Before jobs creation can be meaningful, the jobs loss train wreck Obama inherited from Bush had to be halted and reversed. On that, Obama can claim mission accomplished. The link below to the miror image graph illustrates this beautifully.

Below that you will find a link to the most recent jobs report published by the Bureau of Labor Statistics that shows the following:

1. Nonfarm payroll employment increased by 162,000.
2. The update on that mirror image chart (which spans 2 years) shows the largest gain since before March 2008.
3. Job growth continued in temporary help services, which added 40,000 jobs in March. Since September 2009, temporary help services employment has risen by 313,000..
4. Federal government employment increased due to the hiring of temporary
workers for Census 2010 (48,000).
5. Jobs growth continued in health care by 27,000, with the largest gains occurring in ambulatory health care services (16,000) and in nursing and residential care facilities (9,000).
6. Employment in mining increased by 8,000. Monthly job gains in mining have averaged 6,000 over the past 5 months.
7. Manufacturing employment continued to trend up in March (17,000); the industry has added 45,000 jobs in the first 3 months of 2010. Over the month, job gains were concentrated in fabricated metal products (9,000) and in machinery (6,000).
8. Employment in construction held steady (15,000).
9. Over the month, employment changed little in transportation and warehousing, leisure and
hospitality, retail trade, and wholesale trade.

In the same breath you decry the deficit AND the VAT, a measure which would address reducing the deficit that has proven successful in 150 other countries. I will ignore you health care comment since the only substantiations available for that claim would be Ouija boards, Tarot cards, soothsayers, fortune tellers and psychics.

It would appear in the face of all this factual data that you so far have refused to examine or acknowledge, that denial thingy would be yours, not mine. Your parting shot against Clinton is laughable and indicates just how deep your denial runs. Didn't work for him for long? He managed to eke out a seconed term with a 9-point margin over his opponent. Some folks would call that a landslide. Last time I checked, impeachment didn't happen. He has managed to skate right on through it all and has built a lasting legacy of humanitarian work that has garnered global recognition.

It is apparent that successful democrats make your blood boil, but for your own sake, fix your broken record, make friends with facts and stop rooting for failure, unless you enjoy making yourself look foolish.

Jobs Loss Chart Comparing W to O
http://www.businessinsider.com/chart-of-the-day-jobs-lost-in-the-bush-and-obama-administration-2010-2

BLS Jobs Report
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/empsit.pdf

Economy worst in 25 years..face it.nm - sad
[ In Reply To ..]
nm
I LOVE that you have this denial thing down - SO well that you can
[ In Reply To ..]
sit there and LOOK at the post above with proof from a reliable and objective source looking you dead in the face and you can sit there with your hands over you ears (I can just picture it-hands over ears, eyes closed, saying nah-nah-nah-nah-nah) and just respond with "nope, you are wrong" and in particular with the "sad" remark. Got new for you. The above description is the definition of "sad." You are seriously so tied up in this blind hatred you have going, this Obama can do nothing right that even when confronted with the facts that prove you wrong, all you can do is spout that you are write, we are wrong, we are sad. You have a problem. I hope you are seeing a doc for it because it is not normal. You might find yourself a much healthier and happier person if you did, and you would be much more likeable.
YOU are in denial, sweetheart.nm - Freedom
[ In Reply To ..]
nm
Then give us facts to prove it! This is a political forum for - good old debate
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Just giving opinions without anything to back it up doesn't cut it. Everybody has an opinion, but no one really cares unless you can back it up. You're just wasting your time and gunking up the board.
What is it with you? Look around, things are NOT good - Fargo
[ In Reply To ..]
You can listen to the liberal media all you want and go... rah rah rah. The truth is, unemployment is not improving, foreclosures are up, our Natl Security is in question (and look how Obama treated our ally Israel). This is NOT opinion, but fact. It is not MY problem you cant see what is in front of your face. If you are brainwashed, though, you wont see it.
Okay, it really is laziness then. Okay, I'll ignore you. What a shame. - So
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just chalk your posts up to messing up the scenery. If there weren't so much evidence to the contrary of your opinions which has been given to you, things would be different.
So, are you the lady in the video above? - Would be appropriate.nm
[ In Reply To ..]
nm
Haven't watched it, but haven't been in any videos - lately
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If it's someone who tried to get a numbskull to support his or her position with some facts, then I can relate.
absolutely right - they have selective memory to boot - anon
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When the economy was obviously failing because of Bush, they either denied it was that bad or didn't say anything. Now that Obama is president, they suddenly care about the economy and want to blame it all on him. It's so patently transparent that they don't care about facts, they just want to believe what they think proves Obama/liberals/Dems/whatever are evil.

Why they're so attached to the idea of being victims, though, I have no idea.

"Tpots", at this point, have more credibility than OBAMA - HE MADE THE DEFICIT WORSE!!!.nm

[ In Reply To ..]
nm
He is also making the economy better, and - something he would not
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have had to do if the same criticism being waged on Obama were being waged on Bush when he was doing the damage, so don't even go there. You are NOT entitled to your own facts.
No he is NOT!! My God, that is a crazy statement - LOOK
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THE FACT IS UNEMPLOYMENT IS NO BETTER, FORECLOSURES ON HOUSES GROWING. Just because the stock market had a good run really means nothing. Nothing else is better. What about the economy IS better? You got those facts handy? --gonna be a very short list.
Have a read. You are entitled to your own - opinion, but you are NOT
[ In Reply To ..]
entitled to your own facts.

http://money.cnn.com/2010/04/16/news/economy/buffett_welch_dimon.fortune/?npt=NP1

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/aug/01/economy-seen-improving-in-3rd-quarter/

http://curiouscapitalist.blogs.time.com/2010/03/10/the-economy-is-improving-but/

http://www.realtor.org/RMODaily.nsf/pages/News2010030403?OpenDocument

http://www.allbusiness.com/north-america/united-states-mississippi/1120159-1.html

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-04-08/las-vegas-strip-casino-revenue-soared-33-in-february-update1-.html

http://www.articlesnatch.com/Article/Fewer-Minnesota-Foreclosures-And-Improving-Home-Sales-Are-Signs-Of-Improving-Economy/1003263

http://www.smartmoney.com/investing/economy/the-u-s-economy-is-growing-and-struggling/

Look around, people. Things are NOT better - GetReal
[ In Reply To ..]
Live in hope and dreamland forever if you want. Where I live (reality), things are not improving, and taxes WILL go up soon. Obama can lie to our faces all he wants, but he can only pay for the trillions of debt hes caused by an increase in taxes. There is a fact for ya.
Taxes are down unless you are making more - than $250,000 a year
[ In Reply To ..]
whether you want to admit it or not, and I know that at least where I am the job market is actually starting to get better. I live in reality, thank you very much; however, I am not so sure about you with your statement about taxes being up-unless of course you are one of the few making $250,000 or more in which case I suggest you go find another forum that focuses strictly on the so-called "reality" for the very few in American's high-income bracket because you don't belong here.
TAXES WILL GO UP.. FOR ALL OF US-wake up.nm - MarkMyWords
[ In Reply To ..]
nm
You sang this song for a year before the election and 15 month - since. We are still waiting for
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Armageddon, but instead what do we have? Economic recovery in progress and not a single tax hike for the middle class. Mark your own words, select, highlight and delete, then try to come up with something with substance.
Nobody is singing over it -you have no idea how economy and - MN
[ In Reply To ..]
taxes work together. We have no choice to pay for Obama's huge spending other than higher taxes for the middle class in some way or another. Do you have any common sense? No, and neither does the president.
Read any economic reports lately? BLS for March? - How about the scores of
[ In Reply To ..]
links provided above you seem to be ignoring at all costs?
Sweetheart, the reality lies in the facts found in the - numerous sources cited in
[ In Reply To ..]
the post to which you are responding. She has chosen sources from key sectors in the economy. Seems to be a unanamous assessment among them serve to point out who is living in dreamland and who iss not. Read them and weep.
Where I live, economy is worse this month than ever. - Hello
[ In Reply To ..]
Unemployment higher than in 25 years, tons of houses that cant sell. Nothing is improving in my state, absolutely nothing. Its as if you read and believe it instead of looking around and listening. That IS dreamland.
Doesnt change the economic indicators one bit. - sm
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"Looking around" would also include taking a peek at the abundant economic info that says otherwise. Just for the sake of curiosity, what state would that be?
National Debt graph - not updated but showing trend - article how - government spending
[ In Reply To ..]









gets us out of a depression. 

National Debt Graph: Bush Goes for WWII Stimulus


 
















Click image below to enlarge.


 












  Note the run-up in debt starting in 1942. That's equivalent to $10 trillion today. That pulled the economy out of the great depression and into high gear to win World War II.
 

 











     









  How We Get Out of the Great Depression II
By Steven Stoft, March 2, 2009
Here we go again:   Hoover got us in, and WWII got us out.  Bush got us in, and


to his credit, started trying to get us out. Though, mostly he threw money at bankers.

In the Great Depression, Roosevelt tried deficit spending, but he was too timid. Then he stopped in 1937 and the economy nose-dived. It took the humongous deficits of WWII to pull us out of the Great Depression. Those deficits blasted the economy from depression into overdrive.

Of course after the war, we had to pay off a huge national debt, but during that time, from 1946 to 1980, the economy was mainly quite prosperous. We hit a bad recession when Reagan took office, and his early deficit spending made sense (though he didn't know it). But then he continued to drive up the debt through the boom years that followed. That didn't make any sense.

We are now headed into the worst slump since 1938, and you better hope Obama can fix it because that was not a pretty time. Unfortunately, as in the Great Depression, the extreme conservatives would rather trash the country than have our government succeed. They are much worse than Bush.

The main thing to remember is that, with consumer spending going down, business is going to lay people off—not hire them. You can't blame business for this. It's just a vicious cycle that the economy gets into. And you can't blame consumers for not spending in bad times. The only way out of this, if we don't want to wait 10 years, is for the government to spend, pay unemployment insurance, or give tax breaks to people who will spend (not the rich). Of course there's also the problem of the banks. Obama should stop saving the bankers, and just take over the bad banks. Once they're working they can be sold back to the private sector.



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