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"Occupy" HURTING small businesses...Nice going.

Posted: Nov 12, 2011

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2011/1110/Small-business-owners-tell-Occupy-Wall-Street-You-re-hurting-the-99-percent

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change isn't easy...it comes with a price but the net result will be positive. - owssupporter

[ In Reply To ..]
No one would be occupying anywhere if they weren't being impacted by the corporate greed and the overtaking of our government by payoffs and lobbyists for the top 1%. When all are able to make an honest living without worrying about their jobs or losing their homes we will be a peaceful society again. We all should be able to share in the american dream, not just the 1%.

Occupy is FOR small business. Agree w/above - - change is often inconvenient & isnt free.

[ In Reply To ..]
This movement is still in its infancy, but is growing and evolving every day. As time passes, many of those too lazy and complacent to want to break out of their own little coccoon of faux security will have negative changes come about that will spiral them into poverty. More and more of hard-working middle-class citizens are having that happen to them every day. Those MTs with haughty, "I'm better than you" attitudes, based solely on their husbands' good jobs, could be singing a far different tune if he gets laid off, or receives a major cut in pay/benefits.

Those who are so quick to point their fingers at protesters as "evil", and at people who are truly working for a change that benefits the working class, instead of enslaving and impoverishing them, are extremely insecure in their own power, and their own worth to society.

If you were FOR small business, you would cease - this idiotic camp! Shameful.nm

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

Bravo! Your post is right on target! - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
Also, this movement isn't merely an American thing, as it's spreading all over the world, as well, and is an international undertaking. That's certainly a LOT more than the Tea Partiers can claim.

You bring up a great point when you mention the "I'm better than you" attitudes, based solely on their husbands' good jobs. Their haughty, superior attitudes could change tomorrow, if, as you say, their husbands become laid off and they become the major breadwinner for the family.

Perhaps some of the most believable posts on this board come from the MT who indicates she's earning less than minimum wage. I'm sure if she had a husband that earns good money, her attitude might not be the same, but with the advent of voice recognition/editing and the increase in off-shoring, it's not difficult to believe that someone may be earning less than minimum wage after working very hard (especially with voice recognition programs).

This job requires speed, speed, speed. If you're someone who takes the time to proofread your work before sending it in (beyond the spell checker) or who is editing and needing to practically rewrite the whole note at a few cents a line, it hurts you financially.

Anyway, thank you for your post. You absolutely nailed it.

How ridiculous. Well, then lets also make the 47pct - who pay NO taxes pay something too!! nm

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

You are wrong about that. Do some research - instead of listening to Fox NM

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x

Not the poster above, but the last place I read it - was not on Fox.

[ In Reply To ..]
As a matter of fact, I rarely ever watch anything on Fox or read anything on Fox, so I am pretty sure it wasn't there. I'm thinking it was either MSN or Yahoo news that I read it on. If you have any info proving that number is much lower, please let us in on it.

Occupy want to ignore the truth. The number is correct.nm - Indy

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

No, OWS wants to REVEAL the truth. - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
They do represent 99% of US citizens (and the Tea Party represents the top 1%) and they promote things such as bank fees and promoted "Bank Transfer Day," to encourage people to leave the big banks that were trying to increase fees. A significant amount of people actually did move their money to small, local banks, credit unions, etc.

They're looking out for people like me, and there is nobody that can post anything on this board that's negative because I've seen them up close and personal and have gotten to know them. One fellow in particular holds TWO degrees and cannot find a job.

If the haters want to continue to follow the Tea Party (and off-shoring of jobs, ESPECIALLY given the current state of the field of medical transcription), that's their prerogative, but I'm going to believe what I see firsthand and not the propaganda that angry Tea Partiers are spewing.

As I wrote above, the only productive thing any of the Tea Partiers have offered is the idea that supporters should open up their homes to those who are living out of their cars or worse. Having gotten to know these folks a bit, when I read that, I agreed and have opened up my home to them.

Here's the numbers, now where's your plan? - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
Please provide us with your brilliant squeezing-blood-out-of-turnip ideas. While you are at it, how do you propose to increase taxes on the 14 million unemployed? They are already paying income tax on their UI benefits, assuming they have not maxed out their 99 weeks already. Here's a number the article below did not provide. I'd like to know what your plan would do about the 1400 millionaires who paid no income tax (according to 2009 data)? Does your plan include the corps who pay nothing (after all, they are people, too) and end up getting refunds anyway?

http://news.yahoo.com/numbers-47-percent-pay-no-income-tax-look-170500327.html

31: Percent of nonpaying American households making $10,000 or less per year in 2010 (PDF link to study). An American household of any size making this amount of money, including just one person, is automatically under the poverty threshold.

61: Percent of nonpaying American households making $20,000 or less per year.

87: Percent of nonpaying American households making $40,000 or less per year.

$22,050: The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services' 2009 definition of the poverty threshold, for a family with two children living in the 48 contiguous states or the District of Columbia.

1964: The last year the minimum standard of living defined as below the poverty level was updated, for the purpose of government definitions. A number of things that are required by job-seekers and at-home workers, and that are considered vital parts of American life now, were not included because they did not exist -- things such as computers, cellphones, and Internet access.

$29,600: One proposal for what the poverty line for a family of four should be reset to, according to the U.S. Census Bureau. The proposal corrects for a number of statistical quirks in the original, including the assumption that all senior citizens would eat less.

$11,500: The standard income tax deduction for a married couple with two children. The deduction is $9,500 for a couple and $1,000 for each child, as of the tax law change in 2003.

$5,036: The Earned Income Tax Credit granted to a family with two children, according to the 2010 IRS 1040 form. The EITC is a tax break granted to people who work for a living, which grants substantially more to families with children.

16.3: Percent of their incomes that the bottom 20 percent of American earners paid in all forms of taxes combined, on average, in 2010. Some taxes, like state, local, sales, and payroll taxes, take a larger percentage of poor people's income than they do the top 1 percent's.

26.9: Percent of America's net worth owned by the entire bottom 90 percent of American earners, including home equity.

4: Job seekers for every job opening in the United States.

Time to put up or shut up. Hopefully, you will refrain from such ridiculous assumptions as senior citizen's "eat less" when attacking the issue of needing to revise the poverty level UPWARD. Ball's in your court, oh enlightened one.

Start by electing a president who is ANTI class warfare!nm - NoBama

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

You know, you really need to get some new material. - dmit it. You got NO PLAN.

[ In Reply To ..]
Somehow, I don't think you're gonna be able to sell that everlasting DUH of yours. It's a tough crowd out there this election season. Oh, and just for the record, the voters have already figured out that the problems we are having with the economy are much larger than just one man.

Sorry, but that means we need to get rid of the ENTIRE - Republican party, nm

[ In Reply To ..]

LOL. A one-liner after my own heart. - Thanks for the chuckle. nm

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That would have to be a Democrat because - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
the Republicans are the ones that are PRO class warfare: their 1% versus the 99% rest of us.

The Pubs want to place more of a burden on poor/low middle-class people and reduce the tax burden of of the rich, which keep getting richer and richer while the other 99% of us get more and more poor.

And it's not even the money totally. It's the mindset that one gets by knowing any day on their job could be their last, given all the layoffs in this country. How could anyone feel secure in their life, other than the self-righteous few that we've seen post on this board. Certainly, if one studies the "like" votes versus the "dislike" votes, the "like" votes involving pro-OWS posts are much more present than the "dislike" votes. That certainly is different than it was, say, a year ago, where the pro-Republicants outnumbered the reasonable people here.

I believe in class warfare...Im tired of getting poorer - while the rich get richer!!!!

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

Not the OP, but here are some statistics from - Kosmo

[ In Reply To ..]
From Kosmo

47% of Americans pay no income tax, according to many sources. Is this really true? Let’s take a look.

First of all, I’m going to present IRS data, so I’m limited to the information from tax returns. According to the 2010 US census the population of the United States was around 308.75 million people. The number of exemptions claimed on 2009 tax returns (the most current data available from the IRS) was 283.8 million. In other words, 25 million people – about 8% of the population – don’t appear anywhere on tax returns.

Who are these 25 million people? They could be people dodging taxes. They could be people who have paid their share of taxes in their lifetime (retired) or will pay their fair share at a later stage in their life (students). These may even be people who paid some amount of income tax during the year but aren’t filing for a refund (yes, this does happen).

Let’s work with the numbers we have from the IRS. Of the 140 million tax returns filed for the 2009 tax year, just over 58% paid taxes. So this means 42% of the people in this group didn’t pay taxes, right?

Wrong. It means that 42% of the returns didn’t have any tax liability. What’s the difference? Let’s walk through this example:

Sam makes $3000 from his summer job and has no tax liability.
Danielle and Thomas have three children: Mark, Lindsey, and William. They have tax liability of $150,000.
Looking at this example, what percent of people are paying taxes? Is it fair to say 50? 50% of the tax returns (1 out of 2) have tax liability. Is it 33% (1 of the 3 adults aren’t paying taxes?). Is it 17% (1 of the 6 Americans aren’t paying taxes?) The people who are simply looking at the number of tax returns with taxes paid are going to say 50%. Is that right or wrong? I’ll let you decide.

If you choose 33% of 17%, let’s dig a bit deeper. Take a look on my article regarding how many people make more than $250,000. You notice a correlation between number of exemptions (essentially household size) and income. The lowest income levels have the lowest number of exemptions (1.01), with this increasing until it plateaus around 3 in the $500,000 – $1,000,000 range.

There’s also a correlation between income level and likelihood of owing income tax. Less than 3% of tax returns with under $5000 in adjusted gross income owed any taxes, building to 77%+ in the $40,000 – $50,000 range and near 99% by the time we reach the $100,000+ range.

What’s my point? Let’s look at an extreme example. A million tax returns in the sub-$5000 range represent 1,010,000 Americans (1.01 exemptions per return). A million tax returns in the $500,000 – $1,000,000 range represent 3,050,000 people (3.05 exemption per return). Let’s take a sample of a million returns from each of these groups. Let’s further say that all one million returns in the $500,000 – $1,000,000 group have taxes owed and 160,000 returns in the sub $5000 group have taxes owed. That means that 1,160,000 / 2,000,000 – or 58% – of the returns have tax liability. However, these returns represent 3,211,600 or the 4,150,000 people – in excess of 77%. The basic mathematical concept here is weighted average.

An extreme example, yes. However, it does illustrate a valid point. The 42% of tax returns with no liability is going to represent less than 42% of the 283.75 million people covered by these returns.

Just want the data? Here it is!

Source: http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/09in11si.xls (compare column 6 to column 1)

AGI Filers Pay tax
All returns 140,494,127 58.27%
No adjusted gross income 2,511,925 N/A
$1 – $5,000 10,447,635 2.93%
$5,000 – $10,000 12,220,335 15.54%
$10,000 – $15,000 12,444,512 23.17%
$15,000 – $20,000 11,400,228 42.69%
$20,000 – $25,000 10,033,887 46.21%
$25,000 – $30,000 8,662,392 53.15%
$30,000 – $40,000 14,371,647 66.71%
$40,000 – $50,000 10,796,412 77.62%
$50,000 – $75,000 18,694,893 87.99%
$75,000 – $100,000 11,463,725 95.81%
$100,000 – $200,000 13,522,048 98.88%
$200,000 – $500,000 3,195,039 99.38%
$500,000 – $1,000,000 492,568 99.18%
$1,000,000 – $1,500,000 108,096 99.05%
$1,500,000 – $2,000,000 44,273 99.06%
$2,000,000 – $5,000,000 61,918 99.09%
$5,000,000 – $10,000,000 14,322 99.06%
$10,000,000 or more 8,274 98.86%

Other tax articles by Kosmo

How many people make more than $250,000?

What percent of taxes are paid by the rich?

You mean while YOU get richer? Figures. - nm

[ In Reply To ..]

This is a flat-out LIE. - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
The ones in my town requested that a supporter buy an AMERICAN flag that they could hang at their site, but they asked the supporter specifically NOT to go to Walmart, to use a local small business and, if possible, make sure the flag was actually MADE in the USA.

Why do you write such hateful fiction?

Wow, come back to the real world. NO LIE.nm - Indy

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

I know what I SAW firsthand, and I'm sure - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
going to believe THAT before I agree with hateful fiction from the likes of YOU!

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