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Finally admitted it's not constitutional

Posted: Mar 6, 2013

On Tuesday, the Department of Justice sent shockwaves through the nation when Attorney General Eric Holder informed Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY) in writing that the White House would be within its legal authority to execute an American citizen via drone on U.S. soil if that person was determined to pose a threat to national security. On Wednesday, testifying before a Senate panel, Holder was prodded repeatedly about this assertion by Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX). Holder eventually admitted that it would not be constitutional to execute an American citizen without due process. “In your legal judgment, does the Constitution allow a U.S. citizen on U.S. soil to be killed by a drone?” Cruz asked Holder pointedly. “For sitting in a café and having a cup of coffee?” Holder replied. Cruz clarified that his hypothetical individual subject to a drone strike did not pose an “imminent and immediate threat of death and bodily harm,” but that person is suspected to be a terrorist. “I would not think that that would be an appropriate use of any kind of lethal force,” Holder replied. “With all respect, Gen. Holder, my question wasn’t about appropriateness or prosecutorial discretion. It was a simple legal question,” Cruz clarified. “This is a hypothetical, but I would not think, that in that situation, the use of a drone or lethal force would not be appropriate,” Holder replied. “I have to tell you I find it remarkable that in that hypothetical, which is deliberately very simple, you are not able to give a simple, one-word answer: no,” Cruz added. He said he think that his scenario would constitute a “deprivation of life without due process.” Holder agreed and added that lethal force in Cruz’s case “would not be appropriate.” “You keep saying appropriate – my question isn’t about propriety,” Cruz goaded. “My question is about whether something is constitutional or not.” When Cruz was about to abandon his line of questioning after a number of equivocations from Holder, the attorney general clarified that he was saying “no” such actions would not be constitutional. http://www.mediaite.com/tv/ted-cruz-goads-eric-holder-into-admitting-that-killing-americans-with-drones-on-u-s-soil-is-unconstitutional/;

The letter regarding strikes in US - talked about 9/11 and Pearl Harbor situations

[ In Reply To ..]
Not some guy sitting in a cafe. Not someone with an assault rifle. It specifically said 9/11 or Pearl Harbor proportions.

Nope. Not according to the video - or the transcript - nm

[ In Reply To ..]
.

I thought this was in regards to the letter. - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
"As members of this administration have previously indicated, the US government has not carried out drone strikes in the United States and has no intention of doing so. As a policy matter moreover, we reject the use of military force where well-established law enforcement authorities in this country provide the best means for incapacitating a terrorist threat. We have a long history of using the criminal justice system to incapacitate individuals located in our country who pose a threat to the United States and its interests abroad. Hundreds of individuals have been arrested and convicted of terrorism-related offenses in our federal courts.
The question you have posed is therefore entirely hypothetical, unlikely to occur, and one we hope no president will ever have to confront. It is possible, I suppose, to imagine an extraordinary circumstance in which it would be necessary and appropriate under the Constitution and applicable laws of the United States for the President to authorize the military to use lethal force within the territory of the United States. For example, the president could conceivably have no choice but to authorize the military to use such force if necessary to protect the homeland in the circumstances like a catastrophic attack like the ones suffered on December 7, 1941, and September 11, 2001."

Of course, shooting down some guy in a cafe is unconstitutional. The letter was obviously not talking about anything similar to that situation. It clearly states "catastrophic attack."

Where WERE you people when Bush was stomping - on the Constitution and American way?

[ In Reply To ..]
It doesn't seem that you actually care about the actual issues at stake. Certainly not the Constitution--that's been proven many times over again.

Once again, politics ISN'T some stupid team sport. It matters what actions you support, what you're running down the field, and what happens if you get there. No party is always right or always wrong? How can you spend years pretending that this is not just possible but always true.

This may be inconceivable, but if you guys didn't have it so overcovered, I'd be spending a good part of my time criticizing the Democrats and another good part agreeing with something the GOP's doing.

Why not read something scholarly about the Constitution instead of team propaganda? Just once. Read one thing for knowledge instead of ammunition.

Not the OP, but I'll tell you where we were - We were right here

[ In Reply To ..]
Stating on this board that what Bush was doing was wrong. That's where I was and that is where a lot of other conservatives were too. WE admitted when Bush did something wrong, something the democrats here will not do when Obama does something wrong.

No, politics certainly is not a sports team. It's a religion, a cult for some.

No, no party is ever wrong or right. Sometimes the ones you don't agree with just happen to be right about issues, but if you are so intertwined with belonging to your favorite sports team (or religion), its hard to admit you are wrong about something. Too many people are wrong, but will never admit it. What is so hard about saying "you know I was wrong". I've said it many times. There is nothing wrong with being wrong. There is with not admitting it.

But I'd like to know is where are all the war protesters, where are all the people who were marching against what Bush was doing now that Obama is doing the same thing. Nowhere to be seen or heard.

Two things I've heard and seen that stick out so boldly. One was when Bill Maher said - The liberals stance is you know if Obama was a republican this would be just awful.

Another was a poster that said - Fascism - It's okay when we do it.

Sorry to catch you in my blast. Your points about Obama's - actions are very valid, of course. sm

[ In Reply To ..]
I worry, but mostly I do believe Obama's principles are similar to my own and that they are allied with a pragmatic realization that a way must be found to both meet the situations we face AND preserve our freedoms and The American Way. The latter far more important than a few 9/11-type lives.

Quite simply, I trust him to try to do this, as opposed to how I came to distrust and fear what the Bush/Cheney administration was doing. I believe he brings intelligence and decency--and the ability to fully understand the principles and moral issues involved--to the job.

Obama inherited a seriously degraded and corrupted process, though, and many ongoing and accelerating threats, and I would have been very surprised if he had been able to just turn everything around and make it all right. This is the real world, after all. I wish he'd done better so far. Arresting and holding anyone of any nationality without trial should be unthinkable.

So bottom line, though, I don't complain as much about this administration because I do think we're at least going in the right direction. I still complain about the problems created by the last administration--and the unrepentent people who support its actions--because many are very serious and are themselves ongoing threats to what we used to think it meant to be an American.

A dem

Not wanting to argue with you but... - Truthhurts

[ In Reply To ..]

You said......"Quite simply, I trust him to try to do this, as opposed to how I came to distrust and fear what the Bush/Cheney administration was doing." Turn this sentence around to: ..."distrust and fear of the Obama/Biden administration and you have the "same difference;" IOW, a lot of people don't trust O&B's administration, a lot more than those who distrusted B&C's administration.

You also said ....."Obama inherited a seriously degraded and corrupted process," but this administration, whether you see it or not, has corrupted the process even further. Examples can be found on line so I won't go into them here, but there are quite a few processes that have been corrupted including cronyism, "buying" into a W.H. position (those who made the largest campaign contributions were first in line for a position,) etc., ongoing lies by different department heads and the "crying wolf" example from last week. BTW, don't raise the roof about my short examples because you know they're true.

You said...."Arresting and holding anyone of any nationality without trial should be unthinkable" as is using drones on anyone they think is a terrorist, including American citizens; yet it's being done every day.

You said...."I still complain about the problems created by the last administration"....don't you think you should drop 'it's Bush's fault' after going on 5 years of this administration? It's over. This administration has made more problems and especially when they expanded the Patriot Act, NDAA, spending....and if they truly wanted to end or minimize some of the problems, they should think about disbanding and cutting extra programs that do nothing but mimic other programs and stop pouring money into programs that have not worked.

As for unrepentent people, this administration is far less serious about justice (AG's office, SOS's department to name 2) and it's time to get some STRAIGHT answers to questions that have been asked and inquiry's into the AG's refusal to cooperative with the committee's right to information. Too many times, Holder and others in this administration has held themselves above reproach and give the attitude that because they are the rulers of this country, they don't have to answer to us. To me, THAT's

Okay. Off my soapbox for now. Have a great day (or what's left of it). :)

I disagree with this sentence - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
"a lot of people don't trust O&B's administration, a lot more than those who distrusted B&C's administration."

There's really no way to prove this, and I'm sure your feelings are formed by the circles you run in. My personal experiences were very different. But if votes from our citizens have any correlation to trust, Obama received far more than Bush.

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