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Debates obviously do not decide elections.
Posted: Oct 12, 2012
I have not been happy with O's performance the last 4 years. However, I am not sure he is totally to blame for the state of our economy, debt, and job situation. The R fully admit that what was dumped in his lap was tremendous. Much of the debt technically does not even belong to O. The rest, I believe he had no choice, as we were actually looking at a depression. As Clinton stated, NO president, R or D, could fix these problems in 4 years.
Even though I just can't forget the last months of Bush's presidency, him getting on TV and emphatically declaring, "The American economy is strong." He knew better. In any case, I was leaning toward voting for Romney because of his "business experience" and past successes. However, the more I hear and the more I calculate, I am actually scared to vote for Romney and Ryan, not that I am against R, but just those 2.
While not happy with the present administration, you should be very careful what you wish for. When you take into consideration Social Security, Medicare, and taxes, the changes and "ideas and plans" Romney and Ryan discuss may work for a business venture, could be catastrophic to all middle class. Indeed, where would the elderly be now if Social Security had been privatized as they have suggested? It may not affect you, but think about the middle class not being able to deduct their childcare or their mortgage interest. This is actually just a tax increase, is it not?
There are too many unanswered questions, too many conflicting statements, too many false statements, and too much evasiveness on the part of Romney and Ryan. I give them credit as being very successful business people, but that's it. I am not sure I can feel good just to vote against O. It does not matter how ANY of them look in a debate; this of course, does not decide an election. If it is true that an election can be bought, then no doubt Romney will win. If so, God help us all.
;
How Romney really operates - Hotfish
[ In Reply To ..]In the mid to late 1990s I had a career in office products with an established small business in Orlando, FL, that paid $52,000/year. Once Bain Capital got ahold of the industry, this is what transpired:
In the first "wave" there were "mergers and acquisitions" of my company with many other Florida office supply companies that were all brought together under one umbrella corporation, US Office Products. Once this happened, the changes were rapid and many. The first real sign of shennanigans was when management approached my department (customer service and sales) and told us that we would no longer be paid on commission, but would now be hourly employees. The way the figured the pay was to average together all of your earnings from all of your time with the company, BUT...your best year would be "thrown out" of the averaging process. Of course, I had only been in the industry for 5 years and my "best year" was the previous year so my average was based on the years I struggled to build my accounts. My pay rate then was $17.34/hour.
Of course, I immediately started looking for a new job, only to discover that USOP had effectively purchased virtually ALL of the local office supply companies.
Since $17.34/hour wasn't really bad pay, I stuck it out. About 8 months later, most of my coworkers were "laid off" and only 8 of us remained. We 8 were forced at that time to take a massive pay cut and EVERYONE was bumped down to $12/hour. Obviously morale was lower than low and everyone was angry, but we all knew by now this was the new "norm" in the industry.
Within a MONTH of our coworkers all being laid off, the company actually started HIRING many, many agents to come in and replace our former coworkers. These people were all hired in at $10/hour and we the original 8 agents were expected to now train them to do the same job that most of us were actually making a living at jsut 2 years prior and now were reduced to $12/hour and dealing with the insult of training all these new hires.
It's important to know that to make $52,000/year, I had many accounts across the state and I brought in millions in sales every year and my commissions weren't even 2% of my sales. The company I originally accepted employment with was a profitable, family-owned business doing very well and there was no NEED to cut pay they way they did...they merely COULD and it was a great way to increase profits, so we all got used. This company eventually became Corporate Express and the work was eventually offshored, like MT, to India. I recently applied to the end result of this situation, Staples, who now hire in at $9/hour---all these years later.
So if you want to be reduced to third-world country wages, go ahead and vote for Romney. I can't think of anything MORE destructive to one's own life than doing so, but this is still sort of a free country and we are all "free" to vote for our own demise. Obviously, President Obama has MY vote!
Romney called Staples "a classic category killer," - meaning it killed all the small businesses
[ In Reply To ..]in its category, in this case all those stationary and office supply shops in the surrounding towns.
This is something that should be remembered when he speaks of creating jobs. He was proud of what he had helped bring about by closing small businesses. He was also proud of cutting "waste" in businesses Bain took over, like Hotfish's, by cutting salaries and getting rid of workers.
It's also worth noting that the people who created Staples created its jobs. Bain only invested in ventures started by others.
I am sorry about what happened to you, Hotfish, and thanks. It's important for people to hear this stuff and realize where Romney's coming from. His disregard for ordinary people, which really to say, people, is real.
REALLY informative post, Hotfish. Few of us here - have personal experience of Romney. Thanks.NM
[ In Reply To ..]x
Then you got gyped if you only got 2% of sales. - backwards typist
[ In Reply To ..]I was in accounts payable in the early 1990-1995 and the sales people were paid not only 8% in commissions, but also got a car, free phone, free hotel and meals, besides a base salary of $60,000 a year. Of course, there were only 6 of them through the whole USA.
This was a large, well-known company and bought by their biggest competitor when I was still there. I would love to give the name, but they were bought out again a couple years ago and I don't know the new name or what's happening now within the company.
No. - hotfish
[ In Reply To ..]I didnt' get "gyped." I made decent money for not having to work too hard and I was HAPPY. I didn't have QA or NJA or incompetent management...just a good paying job with great benefits. On some accounts I made 35%, my average was 2% because I was "heavy" on high-volume government accounts. Wondering why someone would even post such a retort...Oh, and "gyped" to those of us, say who maybe had a "gypsy" relative in Auschwitz (like I) is a rather derogatory term.
I think we're part of a real big group, undecided. - Mainstream conservatives need a new party.SM
[ In Reply To ..]Leave the extremists, hatemongers, malcontents, and the people who purchased the people they vote for and cultivated their hatreds behind to themselves.
Romney? So much just doesn't come together with him, unless you consider his religion. Then it does much better. He is a conservative and devout Mormon, which is pretty darned conservative and devout. There's no casual religion in that church. You either buy in completely and walk the walk or you leave.
A lot of Mormons a generation ago thought his father might be chosen by God to do His work during Christ's Second Coming earth and the Tribulation, and now a lot of Mormons think that might be this Romney's role. We are, after all, in a time of "increasingly severe wars, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other man-made and natural disasters..." He must either worry it might be true and be earnestly trying to cover all bases or believe it's true and be positioning himself to do God's work when He and Satan square off.
It was that extra $2 trillion Romney plans in military spending (beyond anything the Pentagon asked for or wants) that reminded me of all this. And his weird notion that Russia is a big threat; wherever that comes from, it's not the Pentagon. Frankly, I don't believe in Satan, so I'm not worried about him, but I do hesitate to put our nuclear arsenal in the hands of someone who might feel God intends him to use it. Plus, we really have better uses for that $2 trillion. Making the war industry very, very happy isn't anywhere on MY list of priorities.
Speaking of taxed and increased military funding - sm
[ In Reply To ..]Romney did say there would the be $2T in increased military funding. Then Ryan says last night that there will be none. ????
As far as the 14% tax being fair for someone making $23 million, what.....? Really......?
Those tax guidelines were put in place, as they are the job creators, you know. I don't see where it has worked. More jobs are leaving the country than ever before. Those tax rates were designed to expire, SO LET THEM! Level the playing field.
Russia is becoming a thorn in our side again. - backwards typist
[ In Reply To ..]Between the corruption, Putin (who hates us and a two-faced liar to boot), selling weapons, planes, and uranium to countries that don't like us, I would say that Romney is close to being right on the mark.
You can easily check up on this. It was in the news.
Social Security, IRS deductions, etc. - backwards typist
[ In Reply To ..]R&R are NOT thinking of privatizing Social Security. I wish people would get it straight. They want to allow people to pick and/or choose Social Security the way it is now, partial Social Security funds and partial private accounts be it stocks, bonds, mutual funds, money market funds (which is guaranteed by the gov't not to go lower than $1 a share), savings accounts, CDs, etc., anything you want to do with funds you choose to do with it. If you care to spend that money, I think you have the option to do that, too. It's your money.
As for deductions, R&R don't intend on cutting out the mortgage deduction UNLESS it's not your primary residence.
I didn't pay attention to child care because I don't have young kids.
I'm so tired of the baloney being spread by some politicians (add Biden to my list of Pelosi, Reid, Schumer, DWS, Jackson-Lee, Durbin, Hoyer), blogs, newspapers, commentators, etc.
But you cannot trust what you do not know. They are too evasive. - Mitt has changed his mind too much. NM
[ In Reply To ..]x
Everyone trusted Obama even though he wasn't on the up-and-up. - backwards typist
[ In Reply To ..]Obama was evasive and never said how he was going to achieve all his Hope and Change thingies, yet he was elected on promises.
We all see how that worked out. Deeper in debt ($6 trillion in 3-1/2 years), still high unemployment (don't believe those numbers), jobs still overseas (and more still going over every day), mandated (and unwanted by 67% of the people) health insurance.
Then there's the AG racism (picking and choosing who they will prosecute), radical czars (thank heavens most of them left of their own accord), other czars hired who gave the biggest donations to Obama.....need I go on? :-)
Hmmmm - hotfish
[ In Reply To ..]I can't think of a single president EVER who was elected based on anything other than "promises."
:) He kept his promise to try to work with - Repubicans to better our country.nm
[ In Reply To ..]x
O has made a big mess bigger. He is the most - clueless president..if you pay attention ! nm
[ In Reply To ..]nm
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