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Big oil welfare


Posted: May 18, 2011

The Senate blocked a bill Tuesday that would repeal about $2 billion a year in tax breaks for the five biggest oil companies. 

First of all, this bill should have been initiated in the Republican-controlled House as it is a "money bill."  Second, I do not fault the three Democrat senators who voted against this bill.  A senator's job is to represent the people of his state, and that is what they are doing.  However, I do fault  MOST of the Republicans for voting against this bill.  It should have passed and received the 60 VOTES NEEDED TO PASS.   SHAME ON THE REPUBLICANS!

*** 

“This bill says that even the most rich and powerful among us must do their fair share to help us reduce the deficit,” said Sen. Robert Menendez, D-N.J., the bill’s sponsor. “Their high-priced lobbyists cannot stop us from doing what is fair and what is right.”

Republicans and some Democrats opposed the tax increase, saying it would hurt domestic drilling while doing nothing to reduce gas prices. The vote was 52-48 in favor of the measure, short of the 60 votes needed to advance it. Three Democrats — Mary Landrieu of Louisiana, Ben Nelson of Nebraska and Mark Begich of Alaska — joined with nearly all Republicans in opposing the measure. Two Republicans, Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins of Maine, voted for it.

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I was shocked that the Republicans still want to give these subsidies out of our taxpayer money - Taxpayer

[ In Reply To ..]
We, the taxpayer, pay those subsidies. That is just wrong. I know that both Democrats and Republicans get donations from the big oil companies, so that can't be the reason the Republicans want to keep the subsidies going. I can't understand it, but I sure don't like it.

I have mixed feelings on this issue. - Trigger Happy

[ In Reply To ..]
I do not agree with them getting subsides out of taxpayer money. However, if we take that money away, who do you think will still pay for it. uh...taxpayers of course. That cost will be added to what we pay at the pump. Either way...we will pay for this one way or another. So I kinda see both sides here...but I still think they should lose their subsidies.

See...I'm a conservative and I don't agree with the republicans on this issue. ;) I also don't think the Bush tax cuts should have been extended. However, I don't agree with the democrats extending unemployment benefits either.

So I'm really annoyed with all politicians at this point.

I'm not sure if they really could add it to the price we pay at the pump - Just Thinking

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I see your point, but I'm not sure they could get away with that. They have billions of dollars, so it isn't as if they have to raise the price to pay their bills. Interesting idea though.
What have we all learned about companies? - Trigger Happy
[ In Reply To ..]
Even if they have billions of dollars to pay their bills...doesn't mean they won't want to try and make up the difference of the subsidies they could lose. They may not be able to get all of that money back, but they can at least get some of it back by making prices higher for us consumers...who were paying their subsidies in the first place. If gas prices keep going up, goods and services will go up too because it costs more money to have goods shipped, etc. That is just how it works. So I can see the argument that if we take the subsidies away that we will pay for it another way...through higher prices, etc. But when you get right down to it....I cannot justify them getting that much money in subsidies. So I can see both sides...but I have to agree with the democrats on this one....subsidies gotta go.

To hopefully increase domestic oil production - so that we can stop

[ In Reply To ..]
being so dependent on foreign oil and stop spending billions of dollars buying said foreign oil and instead put those billions back into our OWN economy where we NEED it. I don't think OPEC needs it nearly as badly as we do...do YOU?

Oil companies are EXPORTING domestic oil. - We can't win

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They don't "export" it. They place some of it - to trade in open market
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like corn, wheat, etc., and anybody can buy it. Not a great procedure, but that is the "world economy" that Obama is so fond of talking about and embracing. He would rather keep buying the extra we need from OPEC.
We should quit subsidizing it then, right? - C'mon Republicans--get with it. nm
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Address the issue of dependence on foreign - oil. Come on, Democrat.
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nm
Yes, lets quit giving subsidies to Big Oil - and send it directly to China
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How about let's give them the subsidies to - encourage domestic
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drilling so we can stop sending billions to big oil in the middle east???
Speculation - nm
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nm
We export more than 2 million barrels of oil - every single day.
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Just sayin.
Then why not try to stop that instead of - discourage domestic
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drilling and spending billions buying from OPEC? Encouraging domestic drilling will also create a lot of jobs...rigs, pipelining, all the services that supply the oil industry, trucking...it would affect all sectors of the economy. Why are you against creating jobs? OBama can't seem to...let the oil companies.
What we need is more fracking! - Cheap N. Gas
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HE!! NOOOOOOOO!!!!!! - Backwards Typist
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Water, water everywhere and not a drop to drink.

Sorry. That saying rings true for those affected by fracking.
And I thought I'd Never Agree With Backwards - Connecting The Dots
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This fracking thing concerns me. There are even studies being done to find out if it is causing some of the increasingly more frequent earthquakes in areas where fracking is taking place. I invest in natural gas, but this is worrisome.
What did I say to make you think - sm
[ In Reply To ..]
I am against creating jobs? I simply gave a statistic about how much oil the US exports daily. Guess you needed some way to segue into the Obama jobs slam nonsequitur. Maybe you could provide some data on how many jobs the oil subsidies have created lately. I cannot find anything that supports that claim, but recent polls show around 75% of Americans want to stop bankrolling these giant welfare queens.

The experts are saying that's not the problem. The problem is Speculation - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
I keep hearing those who are really experts saying that the problem is "Speculation" and there is plenty of oil available. I am not smart enough to understand what they mean. I keep thinking I will have time to go research it so I'll understand exactly what they keep saying, but I never have the time.

You say you don't blame Democrats for - opposing it based on

[ In Reply To ..]
what their constituents want, but blame ALL the Republicans for voting against it. COME ON. Seriously???? You are really THAT biased?? Yes, I guess you are, and either very proud of it or don't even realize it...sigh.

I would come a lot closer to believing ANYTHING a Democrat said about "even the most rich and powerful among us must do their fair share to help us reduce the deficit" when Democrats have done NOTHING, zip, zilch, nada to cut ANY domestic spending whatsoever and even proposed a 3 TRILLION dollar budget which will do LITTLE to help us reduce the 14-TRILLION dollar deficit. Yep, we crossed the threshold from 13 trillion to 14 trillion. The Dems have done NOTHING during Obama's term except make things WORSE.

And why for the life of me you can't see that, as anyone with an objective cell left in their body SHOULD be able to...is beyond me, but it is proof positive that Obama needs to go in 2012 and the Dem majority in the senate along with him.

Thank you for adding to my resolve to do all in my power to make sure that happens.

Democrats try, Obama tries, but the Republicans have the votes - The way it works in America

[ In Reply To ..]
If it wasn't the Republicans' idea, they will block it,

Democrats control the senate...so you are - wrong about Republicans

[ In Reply To ..]
having the votes. They control the House, not the Senate. Some Democrats crossed over and voted with the Republicans against it. A couple of Republicans crossed over and voted with the Democrats for it as well. That is how Democracy works in America. That is how it should work. Right? Just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean democracy didn't work. I don't like it when the Democrats stonewall either, but it beats having a dictator tell us what to do....hopefully we can avoid that.
Go do some research on 60-vote majority - Really
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Didn't some Democrats cross over and - vote against it? I am
[ In Reply To ..]
aware of the 60-vote majority. What I said was Democrats control the senate because they have more seats that the Republicans. In this particular vote they even had some Republicans join them. Do you only like democracy when you agree with the outcome?

Get your reading glasses and re-read - I don't blame

[ In Reply To ..]
Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins of Maine, the Republicans who voted for it. I blame the other 30 or so pubs who live in states that do not not have an interest in representing LOCAL oil. You know, the lock-step ones.





Please re-read what you said, and - what I said.

[ In Reply To ..]
said. You said you did not blame the Democrats who voted against it because they were voting what their constituents wanted, but blamed all the Republicans who voted against it. What makes you think the Republicans voted against for any other reason than because that is what THEIR constituents wanted???? There is no lockstep involved. I would venture a guess that a lot of the Dems who voted FOR it have many people in their states who also do not have LOCAL oil but still want us to drill here, but that did not stop those Dems from voting for it in "lock step" did it? I know it is really hard for you to believe, but there are a lot of rank and file people out here in the country who are FOR domestic drilling and don't see it as a "party" thing.
Have you ever looked at a map with the red states and blue states? THAT should give you an idea of why so many Republicans voted against the bill.

You could have done this without the get out your reading glasses snipe, you know. But I guess you just gotta be you, right?
I do fault MOST of the Republicans - Copy and Paste
[ In Reply To ..]
The people who voted for it, were doing the right thing. The people voting against were MOSTLY voting the Republican party line. (Please note the use of the word MOST).
Even if they were voting as their constituents - wanted them to?
[ In Reply To ..]
you excused Democrats for voting against it for that reason. It is okay for Democrats to vote against something because that is what their constituents want, but NOT okay for Republicans to vote against something because that is what THEIR constituents want?

If you cannot see the blatant bias in that, no use saying anymore. Do Americans who did not want it to pass count at all? Does only YOUR opinion count? Really?
What constituents wanted? - mbmt
[ In Reply To ..]
It is estimated that 74% of Americans support ending big oil subsidies.
Estimated by who? I am an American and - I am not against it.
[ In Reply To ..]
I am not at all sure that is accurate. If it was done through polling, I would be interested in areas of the country polled and how the question was framed, which has a lot to do with the answers. I know how people feel who live around here, and they are not against them....any more than farming communities are against farm subsidies.
I own oil stock, but I'm definitely against those subsidies - because it is bad for our country
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What's good for me personally is for the oil companies to get rich. What's good for the country is something entirely different. Let them pay their own way.

Here's what I don't get... - Zville MT

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Why is there any corporate welfare at all? For anyone? Subsidies and tax breaks need to stop for ALL businesses. Why do we demand higher corporate taxes if we're just going to turn around and give it right back, and then some, in subsidies? Makes no sense!

I agree. Let's let capitalism work - Stop the Subsidies!

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and leave my Medicare alone. LOL.

Seriously, those companies don't need corporate welfare. They will have food on the table without it. Let's stop it.

I posted this below but just so it doesn't get lost, here it is again - Backwards Typist

[ In Reply To ..]

In direct answer to your post.


According to Rep. Landrieu (and she makes some sense):


1.  Of the top 20 Fortune 500 non-financial companies (ranked by market capitalization), the three U.S.-based oil and gas companies represented here today are the top taxpayers on the list. In fact, ConocoPhillips tops the entire list, with a 46 percent effective tax rate. By comparison, the top 20 companies together pay an average effective rate of 27 percent. The industry pays its taxes and then some. I think there is some real misunderstanding that these large oil and gas companies pay either little or no taxes. Maybe people have been told, and believe, that they have so many tax subsidies they do not pay taxes. I want to put that issue to rest. First of all, three companies, ConocoPhillips, Chevron and ExxonMobil these three companies have paid approximately 49 percent, 43 percent and 42 percent. This is their tax rate. I think that is pretty high.


2.     According to the Joint Economic Committee report on this bill, published last week, repealing these tax incentives ``would have little or no impact on consumer energy prices in the immediate future. The impact in the long term will also be negligible.''  Why would we want to harm five large oil and gas companies that work internationally, that employ 9.2 million people in the United States directly.


3.  Walmart is a big company. They make a lot of money and they are in all of our States. Their tax rate is 33 percent. Berkshire Hathaway their tax rate is 31 percent.  Intel  pays 27 percent. Phillip Morris27 percent; IBM, 27 percent; Verizon and Coca Cola, 21 percent; all the way down to GE paid 9 percent last year.   GE paid zero taxes to the Federal Government last year when these five big companies are paying $86 million a day.


Should some of these subsidies be looked at? Absolutely. When should they be looked at? In the Finance Committee, when we look at all the subsidies in the Tax Code for these other industries--both oil and gas and non-oil and gas, resource based and not, both retail, telecommunications and software companies, such as Intel, Microsoft, et cetera. I will be the first to stand and say that many of these subsidies--or some of them--need to be eliminated, particularly when the taxpayers are looking to close the deficit and reduce our debt.


4.  This approach undermines domestic production. According to the EIA study, published in 2008, the oil and gas industry, the big ones, received about 13 percent of the U.S. subsidies but they provide over 60 percent of the energy.  Unfortunately, while the United States was at an all-time high of oil production, the EIA, which is the Energy Information Administration, now estimates U.S. Gulf of Mexico production will decline to 1.14 million barrels a day by the year 2012. The last time the Gulf of Mexico produced less than 1.2 million barrels of oil was in 1997--more than 10 years ago.


According to a recent analysis by the U.S. Energy Information Administration, oil production from the Barnett Shale formation in Texas--literally in the backyards of the headquarters of some of the companies we heard from last week in the committee--oil production from that Barnett Shale formation in Texas has tripled since 2005. In North Dakota, oil production from shale has gone from next to zero in 2005 to 240,000 barrels a day and is expected to continue to grow. In 2010, production in the Woodford Shale in Oklahoma increased 40 percent between 2009 and 2010.


   In one area after another, there was significant increase in production. In fact, total oil production has increased over 10 percent since hitting its low point in 2008, and the Energy Information Administration predicts that because of the increased production in oil shale and other sources in the Gulf of Mexico, it is going to continue to grow. U.S. prices are also less tied to global markets and competition now than they were in 2005 because of the increased U.S. production and increased Canadian tar sands production that is pouring into the U.S. market. This ought to be of no surprise to the five major oil companies that testified last week because each of them has also made significant investments in the Canadian tar sands project.


 From Mr. Coburn:  if, in fact, our deficit wasn't $1.6 trillion but about $600 billion, the price of the dollar would shoot way up and the price of oil would go down?


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