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Re chamber offshoring jobs...a different perspective.


Posted: Nov 18, 2010

Offshoring: Myths and Facts

by John Murphy

House Ways and Means Chairman Sandy Levin (D-Mich.) and Rep. Tim Ryan (D-Ohio) will be speaking to the press today about "continued efforts by Democrats to prevent the outsourcing of jobs," The Hill reports. Also today, the AFL-CIO is releasing a database that purports to identify companies that have "shipped jobs overseas."

As the November 2 elections loom, it's plain that some hope to turn concern about offshoring of jobs into votes.  But what are the facts on offshoring?

Myth: The United States is suffering a "race to the bottom" as U.S. companies move production to low-wage countries.

Fact: If this argument held water, Haiti would be awash in foreign investment. In fact, three-quarters of U.S. multinationals' capital expenditures are in the United States, and three-quarters of U.S. multinationals' capital expenditures abroad are in high-wage countries that have labor standards similar to those in the United States, according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis (BEA). This sounds more like a ladder to the top.

When U.S. multinationals do invest in developing countries, they often create the best paying jobs around, with the best working conditions.

Myth: U.S. multinationals are moving production to low-wage countries so they can sell their goods back into the U.S. market.

Fact: If U.S. firms are investing abroad to sell into the U.S. market, they are certainly doing a poor job of it. A recent study by Matthew Slaughter based on BEA statistics found that 90% of the production of foreign affiliates of U.S. multinational companies is sold outside the United States. Just 10% of their production is exported to the United States.

The principal reason U.S. firms invest abroad is because it is often the only way to do business in foreign markets, for instance, in the case of services such as insurance, or to manufacture products that can be shipped only at great expense, such as potato chips.

While U.S. investment abroad generates little in the way of U.S. imports, it is vital to American exports. The Slaughter study found that U.S. companies that have invested abroad accounted for nearly half of U.S. merchandise exports.

Myth: When a multinational corporation creates a job abroad, it eliminates a job in the United States.

Fact: The worldwide economy isn't a zero sum game. The Slaughter study found that U.S. companies that invest abroad create 2.3 jobs in the United States for every one they create overseas. It also found that U.S. companies that invest abroad tend to be more successful in ways that help U.S. workers: specifically, such firms pay their U.S. workers higher wages, and they create more jobs in the United States.

Investment from abroad also benefits Americans. Foreign investment in the United States totals more than $2 trillion and sustains five million U.S. jobs with an annual payroll of $350 billion.

;

The logic is that for every MT job in India - we create 2.3 here?

[ In Reply To ..]
I am surprised at you. Not reading your own stuff. Also, in case you haven't noticed India and China are building INFRASTRUCTURE to support the jobs they are taking. Haiti had this big earthquake and now the poor souls have cholera. So when you hear that, we as a nation, are spending too much on our infrastructure, please think again. In the mean time, lets dig a little deeper and give to those people in Haiti and the help out the unemployed who would be working if there were jobs out there, and to the others who are less fortunate than ourselves.

I am not surpised that your post started with a shot and another.... - sam

[ In Reply To ..]
one of those broad general statements like \"the logic for every MT Job in India it creates 2.3 here?\" well, no, that is not the focus of this article. If you had read it, you would get that. The issue that the Dems took with the chamber was multinational corporations...you know, like McDonald\'s, etc. There are McDonald\'s restaraunts all over the world. Yes, if they had been built in the US, they would employ US workers. You need to listen to Obama when he talks about \"the global economy.\" Multinational corporations ARE the global economy.

The reference to Haiti was used as an example of a developing country, to make his point.

Did I miss something in the article about spending too much on infrastructure? As to China building the infrastructure for the jobs they are taking, when Obama and the Democrats get off their duffs and try to get people back to work by making the business climate better for the jobmakers, only THEN will this economy start to turn around. Until the stop this crazy spending when we are already in hock up to our eyeballs in that very nation..China...they may be YOUR boss some day.

And the last part of your post, again, don\'t know what that has to do with the the thread. Look...I live in a very small town but I know there are jobs out there. There are some in the paper every weekend. If there are jobs here, there are jobs elsewhere. Not the best jobs, not the jobs paying as well as the one that was lost, but JOBS. The rub is, both welfare and unemployment pay more. I don\'t know how many times I have heard that from people who don\'t mind telling you so.

I don\'t know about you, but I have had lean times before and I took jobs that I didn\'t want to do rather than go on assistance. They paid less than the one I lost, but eventually I was able to get another one.

I understand helping those less fortunate...however, I don\'t think it is my job or your job to support people who are able to work but just don\'t want to. We cannot sustain the way we are going, or China is going to own us. At what point do we start to usher in again individual responsibility?

If the government wants to continue unemployment, why not attach a job to it? One of those jobs that they don\'t want to take because it doesn\'t pay enough. Have them take the job and supplement that rather than paying them to sit at home?

I do not understand Democrats\' penchant for throwing yet MORE money at things that aren\'t working, when the economy in the toilet, thinking spending will somehow get us out of the toilet. People need to go BACK TO WORK. Ease up on businesses tax-wise so they can afford to hire. Make welfare et al come with a JOB.

That would be a good start.

What you don't understand about business and infrastructure - s/m

[ In Reply To ..]
Businesses build where there are fiber optics, good transporation, a supporting power grid, and good education opportunities.

For example, a local small town recently got two new businesses because there was a labor supply, but also because the local phone and electric companies had put a good deal into upgrading their systems that these two business needed. When they interviewed the owner of one of the businesses, he said that he liked that the town had recently made some huge improvements in the public school system. These improvements enabled the business to locate there. Which comes first, the chicken or the egg? First you build it, then they come. Private business does not do infrastructure without the government.

"Europe spends about 5 percent of its annual gross domestic product on infrastructure, while China spends about 9 percent, according to the “Report Card for America’s Infrastructure” by the American Society of Civil Engineers. In the United States, which spends less than 2.5 percent, chronically deferred maintenance has left the infrastructure in dangerously substandard condition."

We are behind and it is only going to get worse.

Ok...which is more important? Obamacare or infrastructure? - sam
[ In Reply To ..]
Don't you think the government should be about prioritizing what is best for the country instead of what they think will get them re-elected? I thought infrastructure was going to be part of Obama's "stimulus" and was going to create millions of jobs. That has not happened. Why didn't he concentrate on THAT FIRST and leave Obamacare until the economy was back on track and the debt going DOWN instead of up?

I don't deny the need for infrastructure. However, I seriously question the present administration (and yes, prior administration's) decision-making process.

We the people need to start screaming about infrastructure the way we screamed we didn't want Obamacare. Perhaps after the midterms they will be willing to listen, at least the ones who would like to be elected next time around.

I say we give Haiti nothing but a ride out of there to relocate. - NM

[ In Reply To ..]
x

I don't believe any of that, because we aren't seeing more jobs. - They have given our jobs away

[ In Reply To ..]
We've been getting that rhetoric for years now from both parties. When they give away our jobs, we are not being given other job opportunities to replace them. That's false.

I think the premise is...if you read and understand the problem... - sam

[ In Reply To ..]
this is talking about multinational corporations, who have businesses in other countries as well as here...as I said, like McDonald's. When companies expand overseas that creates support staff jobs over here. They are not talking about MT jobs. Why they are ragging on the multinationals is, number one, unions can't unionize the workers overseas, so that cuts into their membership. If unions get mad, the left gets mad. If somehow the unions could unionize those offshore workers, you think they wouldn't be all for it? Chinese dues would spend just like American dues. Unions are no longer in it for the worker...they are in it for the power and the money. Period.

Thank goodness for some people who have - critical reading skills

[ In Reply To ..]
(not being critics) but being able to tell when someone is trying to snow them. That article is so much spin, I am dizzy.

Well by all means, please identify the spin. What parts of it are not factual? - sam

[ In Reply To ..]
the part about opening businesses overseas and yes, employing people in that country, which create support jobs on this side? That part is wrong?

The part about how much offshoring from foreign countries to ours (i.e. automobile factories) that employ millions? Not to mention employees to market those cars on this side? Sell those cars on this side? Maintain those cars on this side?

It is kind of a give and take. I never really looked at the big picture either and had knee jerk reactions to the word offshoring. It is amazing how much things start to make sense when you educate yourself.

Basically it started as a lie...the Chamber itself is NOT offshoring jobs.... - sam

[ In Reply To ..]
yes, some businesses are. But the article was about multinational corporations who build restaurants, etc. overseas, and YES IT DOES create jobs over here for support staff. There ARE fast food jobs and chain store jobs available over here...you guys just don't want them because you don't want to work for minimum wage, and over there they are happy to get it. And the article also addresses the multinational companies who offshore to US...the automobile industry for one. They employ MILLIONS of Americans. They could keep that all over there, but they didn't. I guess all those jobs don't matter? I am certain they do to the people who hold them. Probably posting boards in those countries, if they have them, are bemoaning the fact that THEIR countries are offshoring jobs. I guess we could send all of those businesses back to their own country and pull ours back here. You might suggest that to your reps in Congress if you think that is a viable option. And last time I looked, line workers in an auto plant make a heck of a lot more than someone at McDonald's. You might think about that before you try to dry up offshoring from them to us, which could happen....

Giving them our jobs hasn't saved their sinking economies but it is sinking ours - nm

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

Again...this is about multinational corporations.... - sam

[ In Reply To ..]
who operate in many different countries. It is not "our" jobs that they are offshoring. A lot of them are fast food places, dept store type chains, that kind of thing. There ARE those kinds of jobs here, right now, but they pay minimum wage and American workers don't want to do them. Especially when welfare and unemployment pay better.

The Union's problems with this is that they can't unionize offshore workers. If they could, you would not hear near the uproar you hear now about "offshoring."

It will be interesting to see how our profession fairs with Obamacare if it is not repealed before most of it kicks in. I am not sure how it will affect hospitals, etc., but if it increases their costs they are going to pass it down, and ancillary services (like transcription costs) will be some of the first to be cut. Which means they will pay even less for the service, and transcription services will then in return have to cut costs. Companies who have resisted offshoring of jobs may well have to consider it just to stay afloat. It could get real ugly out there.

I am not against health care reform. I am against trying to solve 50 years worth of problems in a couple of months of backdoor meetings when the economy is already in the toilet. Health care reform should point at cutting costs FIRST, not just adding another huge costly program on top of what we have without fixing what is wrong to start with.

Why not cut programs that don't work FIRST. Get the economy back on track and the debt down a little bit before embarking on something that costly that in all probability will not help anything and make it all much worse.

Well, we have already talked about infrastructure - Then there is the education factor

[ In Reply To ..]
Lets see--educated work force--I believe the US ranks 15th or so?

Myth: U.S. multinationals are moving production to low-wage countries so they can sell their goods back into the U.S. market.

Fact: Take a look at the label on just about everything you buy. Made in China, etc.

Myth: The principal reason U.S. firms invest abroad is because it is often the only way to do business . . .

Fact: Which overlooks the fact that so many of the occupations that we were trained for are especially hard hit. Engineers, accounting and clerical, radiologists, customer service and, yes, MT.

These are not manufacturing jobs for the sale of a product. These are service jobs for the purpose of lowering labor costs. Really. Look at MT wages.

And on and on. The US Chamber of Commerce is the "front" for the foreign lobby money that is purchasing the election campaign advertisements and filling people's heads with articles such as this.

Here is my take on that.... - sam

[ In Reply To ..]
Almost everything you buy..made in China. If there was not a market for it, if people were not buying it, that would dry up. However, people will buy the cheaper item every time, whether it is made in China or not. All the "Buy American" campaigns in the world (and there have been many) have not changed this fact, because American made goods cost more...largely due to the fact that American labor costs more. That is dollars and cents. If all these people griping about "Made in China" stopped buying those products and paid a little more for American made products, the market for Chinese products would dry up. Judging from Wal-Mart's market share, I don't think people are ever going to do that. Gripe about Chinese getting American jobs and then buy the results of it....ahem.

And again, you are ignoring the fact that foreign businesses investing HERE (which the chamber also promotes) employ millions of Americans. Would you like to see that stopped?

Many of we MTs are employed by a foreign national company...C Bay for one. If you are working for Medquist, you are working for a company based in India, basically taking jobs away from Indians if you look at it that way. If you have an issue with American hospitals and clinics using an India-based company to do their work, then your beef should be with THEM, not the chamber. The chamber does not force anyone to offshore, but if the chamber was not trying to get some of that back in the form of foreign businesses locating here, we really would be in a pickle, wouldn't we?

Well, lets just see some transparency with - US Chambers revenue sources and expenditures

[ In Reply To ..]
That's rich...an Obama supporter crying about lack of ... - sam
[ In Reply To ..]
transparency. ROFL. Wait a sec while I stop laughing.

How about we see the DNC's revenue sources and expenditures? I would pay GOOD MONEY to see that one.

Please.
Foreign money in the Chamber is okay? - Venezuela and China?
[ In Reply To ..]
You are so confused.
The chamber is not the only one.... - sam
[ In Reply To ..]
Please special attention to the words "with over half going to Democrats" below:

There is no evidence at all that the chamber has done anything illegally,” said Richard L. Hasen, an expert on election law at Loyola Law School in Los Angeles. But he also noted that the potential for impropriety exists with any organization that accepts funds that would be illegal if spent on politics.

To be sure, money that is segregated for other purposes can free legal funds for political uses.

But the chamber is hardly alone. A number of labor unions and advocacy groups that participate in politics have foreign affiliates and overseas donors. By law, these groups must make sure no foreign funds are used to advocate for or against political candidates. What’s more, foreign companies with United States divisions can create political action committees that accept donations from their U.S. employees.

Those foreign-connected PACs have contributed more than $12 million to political candidates this election cycle, with more than half going to Democrats, according to the Center for Responsive Politics, a nonpartisan group that tracks political money. PACs must itemize and identify the source of all contributions more than $200.

I was never confused. I stopped being dazzled by the BS'ing of the DNC a long time ago.

Now can we stop beating the chamber horse?
Looks like Dems have liked Chinese money for awhile... - sam
[ In Reply To ..]
How about Chinese money in the DNC?

Rememeber Chinagate?

WASHINGTON DESK - A Democrat Party fund-raiser, Johnny Chung, recently decided to cooperate with federal investigators from the Justice Department about the circumstances under which he was involved in a $100,000 fund transfer made to the Clinton-Gore Campaign in 1996.

According to reliable sources, Chung has made good on that promise. He has told federal investigators that the source of those funds was a high ranking Chinese military officer and high ranking Chinese Communist Party hack who doubled as an aerospace executive whose father was General Liu Huaqing.

In a stunning revelation, New York Times staff writer Jeff Gerth reported that Chung has told federal investigators on Thursday that the Hong Kong aerospace engineer, Liu Chao-ying, disclosed the source of the money she donated to Clinton.

At one fund-raiser to which Chung gained admission for Liu Chao-ying, she was carefully photographed standing with president Clinton at a Los Angeles Clinton-Gore Campaign fund raiser in July 1996.

The Clinton White House began circling the wagons Thursday, as Clinton aide Jim Kennedy, told reporters, \'We had no knowledge about the source of Chung\'s money or the background of his guest...it was clearly not appropriate for...her to see the president.\'

Before the White House could mount more of a counter-attack on Johnny Chung, however, Chung bolstered his credibility by submitting authenticated bank records of the funds transaction to federal investigators.

The Justice Department now has direct evidence obtained by its own investigators that the Chinese government was overtly engaged in making illegal political contributions to the Clinton-Gore Campaign and the Democrat Party in exchange for presidential action.

Within the time-frame of the illegal Communist Chinese contribution to the Clinton-Gore Campaign, president Clinton had signed a retro-active Executive Order protecting Loral, the U.S. contractor which handed over top-secret U.S. military ICBM targeting technology to the Communist Chinese for use in Chinese missile testing.

Chung\'s account is credible in view of the facts coming to light this week that puts Liu\'s firm at the center of Red Army missile research.

It is not a difficult link to make between president Clinton\'s questionable Loral Executive Order and Liu\'s campaign contribution. The legal effect of Clinton\'s action granted Liu\'s firm access to U.S. ICBM targeting technology for strategic use in Red Army ICBMs and made Liu an attractive Chinese entity for U.S, space contractors like Loral and Hughes Aircraft to do business with in China.

The Times reports that a representative of the Chinese government denied that Beijing was behind the illegal contributions. \'China has always abided by the laws and regulations in this country...We have nothing to do whatsoever with political contributions in this country.\' Yu Shu-ning, a Chinese embassy spokesperson is said to have offered in explanation to Chung\'s statements to Justice Department investigators.

In 1996 president Clinton made a decision that went into effect on election day that enhanced the financial viability of Liu\'s business ventures that would depend upon American satellites research and U.S. ICBM targeting code secrets.

Pentagon experts have concluded that the arrangement has harmed American national security by advancing China\'s rocket and missile capabilities.

Details of this debacle are leaking out in the Times story that has Chung as instrumental in helping Liu obtain a visa to enter the U.S. in early July 1996. A week later Chung wrote the DNC that he wanted to bring Liu and a Chinese medical executive to a July 22 fund-raising dinner to be held in the Southern California Brentwood home of Eli Broad.

Both of his guests\' names were placed on the guest list after Chung wrote a check for $45,000 to the DNC on July 19th.

A week later, Chung set up a California corporation for Liu and himself, records show.

Liu arrived in Los Angeles on July 21, and the next day Chung accompanied her to two fund-raising events attended by Clinton, according to a law enforcement official quoted by the Times. The first was an early evening $1,000-per-plate gala at the Beverly Hilton.

Later that night, Chung and Liu attended a $25,000-per-couple dinner at Broad\'s home that raised more than $1.5 million for the 1996 Clinton-Gore Campaign. President Clinton was photographed with Liu at that gathering.

Senator Fred Thompson(R) after a very frustrating investigation blocked and delayed by the Clinton White House drafted a detailed narrative in February 1996 containing some new information on the activities of Democratic fund-raiser Johnny Chung, among other figures.

A draft report of 1,500-pages prepared by the Republican staff of the Senate Governmental Affairs Committee, made public in February 1996, detailed the roles of top Democrat Party fund-raisers and connections to Communist Chinese interests and outlined a plan by the Chinese government to subvert American elections which had been carried through.

Thompson urged the Justice Department to continue investigating campaign finance involving Communist Chinese illegal contributions to the DNC and possibly others, as well.

Janet Reno, U.S. attorney general, is now expected to launch the appointment of yet another investigation of criminal activity by the Clinton White House that was the subject of Senator Thompson\'s Senate inquiry but which has only come into sharper focus on the president himself, on Thursday.


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