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Obamacare or Romneycare

Posted: Nov 4, 2012

Obamacare or Romneycare, we will be screwed either way. They both are responsible for this horrific healthcare situation. In each case it is death care. Not voting for either of these crumb bumbs. ;

They did not cause the healthcare crisis. (sm) - Angie

[ In Reply To ..]
Obama inherited it. Clinton was the first president I know of who tried to come up with a plan and Hillary worked on it.

We MTs are for the most part lower middle class and we need a president who understands and cares about our situation. Romney? I don't think so! He is the one who didn't know the camera was rolling which recorded his statement that 47% of the people are living off the government don't pay taxes and he doesn't care about them. So do you really want to depend on this billionaire to care about you?

Obama has already made it illegal for insurance companies to turn you down due to preexisting conditions. For the first time people who could not get insurance now have a chance to get treatment and in many cases have their lives saved by the ability to finally get health insurance. This has saved many lives and next it could be yours.

I VOTED FOR OBAMA. He is for ALL the people!

To each his own - Dimp

[ In Reply To ..]
I disagree. That 47% means that there are 47% of the people that no matter what he does/says, they will never vote for him. It isn't that he doesn't care, he just knows that he won't swing them either way (the majority of school teachers who are in unions, the unions themselves, and those who are already on the public dole because they think they are entitled). Gov should be there to protect our country (which they do), help in natural disasters (they have yet to prove they are good here at what they do), and take care of our disabled (again, questioning if they truly understand this).

Our gov shouldn't be bailing out my neighbor who wants to spend, spend, spend more than they make, just because they can; they shouldn't bail out a company because they too, didn't have a solid business plan. They should be doing the 3 things mentioned above.

By the way, who is going to bail US out when our gov has spent more than it can tax us (because we, no matter how much cut our own home budgets, will no longer be able to give the gov all the money they want for their programs)? Oh, China. Sure, then we might as well forget about voting because there will come a time where China will own us and we won't be able to vote anymore.

It comes down to your individual choice. It started way before any of us were alive and then just got way out of hand and continues to this date. It has to S T O P.

Off my soap box :)

Contrary to carefully bred opinion, we can afford our social - programs just fine, if we give up our

[ In Reply To ..]
extravagant luxury of unnecessary wars, retiring on SS when we can easily work another ten years, tax cuts when there are bills to pay, running vast quantities of our wealth to the upper classes--THEN not taxing it, and other terribly wasteful practices. Economists who say we cannot assume we will not give up what has become an almost permanent war state serving the war industries AND will not be able to give up tendering gold to our uber-wealthy class.

Note that the only one of those extravagances being fixed is working people retiring with 25-30 and more years of living still ahead of them.

IF WE CONTINUE AS WE ARE IN OTHER RESPECTS, as the GOP plans, some spending cuts will go toward balancing the budget, but most money saved on social programs will be diverted to flow upwards into the pockets of the few.

If you doubt this, just look at what's happened in the last 30 years during GOP administrations. EVERY TIME, they're run up the debt--NOT paid it down, while more and more is siphoned away from us.

I just wish so much abortion WOULD be outlawed so that ring could be taken out of some voters' noses. The GOP--in its present form--would be tossed out of hundreds of offices across the country and would never win another election until it dramatically changed I'm no longer so worried about young girls dying and going to prison. Business as usual is killing our country.

One argument with your discussion is the following - backwards typist

[ In Reply To ..]
"...extravagant luxury of unnecessary wars, retiring on SS when we can easily work another ten years, tax cuts..."

What do you do when your company kicks you to the curb because you reached a certain age? Happens all the time. In fact, in some company bylaws, it's a known fact. You reach a certain age, you're retired. No ifs, ands, or buts. Then try to get another job at that age. Neighbor was forced to retire at 55. All he has are PT jobs now even though he wants FT. No one wants to hire him because of his age. He had to take SS early to survive.

The idea that SS age should be raised slowly has been done before (1983) and I think it should be done again. People are living longer and today's 65 is yesterday's 50. To raise it a year or two wouldn't hurt. Even Suze Orman says to work to age 70. That's all well and good if your company will keep you that long, but if they don't, what do you do?

I also think there should be means testing for higher income people and NO cutoff in limit of what people pay into SS (right now $106,800 then they don't need to pay into it until the following year).

"Most money saved on social programs will be diverted to flow upwards into the pockets of the few." How does this work? I can't see it. Will the government be giving upper income people checks every month or what?

I'm not even going to ask that you answer because usually you don't want to have a discussion. I leave the decision up to you, if you're the one who hates level-headed discussions. Heck, you don't even use a moniker, so I'm in the dark as to who you really are.

Have a nice day. Have to leave for today.

I'll take that soap box next ;) - Fanatical Hypocrite

[ In Reply To ..]
I agree with the sentiment behind having a small government, but think that it is a necessary evil. I mean, I think we can all agree that the government is bloated, wasteful, incompetent and corrupt (somebody really should fix that one of these days). I just feel our corporations are even more bloated, wasteful incompetent and corrupt. It's a good race between the two though to see who can ruin our lives more effectively. The swing factor for me is that as broken as the election system is, we can still vote for the government and they are constantly getting hauled off to jail, voted out, etc. The corporations are closed rooms with no accountability and no voting.

Like you, I'm also against corporate bail outs. That's a big part of the unfairness in the system. If I get cancer and fall into debt, I'm a failure who should be allowed to die in the gutter. If Lehman Brothers gambles all our money and fails, they get a bail out. That's not right.

I disagree that those are the only three things the government should do or anywhere near that. I believe the government is the only one we can trust to effectively run our non-disaster emergency services, build our primary infrastructure (power, water, roads, bridges, etc.), pass consumer protection regulation because we can't all grow up to be contract lawyers and mortgage brokers, counter corporate power (which they've never done since they are owned by those corporations) and ensure that health care and education are available to all those who need it so that we can have a smart and healthy next generation and every generation after that. Once someone is too sick to work, we have to pay for them anyway, might as well make it easier on all of us.

As for China, I wouldn't worry about them too much. It's never good to be in debt very much to any country, but they can't take us over through our debt. Plus, we will eventually defeat them with our culture and with our debt in the same way we did it to Japan. In the 80's and 90's, Japanese corporations bought up most of the country, including much of our military production, industry and commercial business. They even bought large chunks of land. Many feared that the Japanese would end up owning the whole country. The problem is that each thing they invested in tied them more and more to our fortunes. Now the Chinese are doing this. The more money we owe them, the more they depend on us for money, especially with their massive investment in a private sector that doesn't exist in their country.

Simultaneously, American culture began to take root within Japanese culture. Hollywood has done more for the American economy than any other force. Once you get a country's youth to fall in love with your products and your TV shows and your movies, you will control that country's future. Now the youngest generations of the Chinese have fallen in love with our country's products, media and art, and it's eating away at their authoritarian government. There is no way America is worth as much as the Chinese paid for it, so if anyone is getting ripped off it's them.

Great, but you're WRONG that government has never - countered corporate culture! LET'S BRING BACK

[ In Reply To ..]
FDR's New Deal and Truman's Fair Deal, which specifically built the middle class of the 40s, 50s, 60s, and 70s, shrank poverty dramatically, and, compared to today, put significant brakes on the power of the wealthy to subvert our democracy.

It's time to take back the control of our country and the prosperity that our parents and grandparents expected us to have as the proud legacy of what is now called "The Greatest Generation."

You're right - Fanatical Hypocrite

[ In Reply To ..]
Didn't even think about it. Definitely agree though. We need a sweeping government change that levels the playing field.

I have some agreements with you on the following: - backwards typist

[ In Reply To ..]
1. I agree with the sentiment behind having a small government, but think that it is a necessary evil. I mean, I think we can all agree that the government is bloated, wasteful, incompetent and corrupt (somebody really should fix that one of these days).

2. I just feel our corporations are even more bloated, wasteful incompetent and corrupt.

3. Like you, I'm also against corporate bail outs. That's a big part of the unfairness in the system. If I get cancer and fall into debt, I'm a failure who should be allowed to die in the gutter. If Lehman Brothers gambles all our money and fails, they get a bail out. That's not right.

4. I believe the government is the only one we can trust to effectively run... ...(words in between I don't agree with) pass consumer protection regulation because we can't all grow up to be contract lawyers and mortgage brokers, counter corporate power (which they've never done since they are owned by those corporations).

The rest I'm neutral except your infrastructure statement. The government decides how much money they can spend. The government takes bids on the projects and awards those contracts to private contractors. Government only pays for the jobs when done.That's it. Government doesn't do the work.

Also true - Fanatical Hypocrite

[ In Reply To ..]
The government is really just a giant general contractor elected by the people, but if the government doesn't pick where the road goes and pays for it, the road probably will only lead to the company who built it.

That we've lived with failing government for the past generation - warps our view. It doesn't have to be

[ In Reply To ..]
like this. It will never be perfect, of course, it's a product of human beings. But it IS our product and we can do so much better. We have before.

Ummm, the government - correction

[ In Reply To ..]
plans and designs and coordinates the projects, many times 10 to 15 years in advance of actual ground breaking, tests the materials, inspects the work, does repair and maintenance, sign/traffic light work, right of way, safety in tunnels and bridges and for ice, snow, water and floods, regulates legal freight trucking, airports are included, hazaardous material, public transportation, etc. Much of this work is done directly by trained engineers and specially skilled workers (have you ever seen them inspect a bridge)? Alot of training and safety training is required for many of the jobs that are dangerous. Oh yes, and much of the construction work is put out on bids to the private sector.

How is Romney responsible? - Inquiring minds

[ In Reply To ..]
He was governor of Michigan before he ran for president.

No, he was governor of Massachusetts. His father...sm - VTMT

[ In Reply To ..]
was governor of Michigan.

I was confused - Inquiring minds

[ In Reply To ..]
However, you still did not explain how he is responsible for the health care crisis.

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