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Obamacare

Posted: Mar 24, 2015

There has been a lot of going back and forth today about Obamacare and it seems there are a lot that approve of Obamacare and think its good for Americans. Some have said they have read the law pertaining to Obamacare. So for those of you that understand the law, and if it is so good for us then just why did our Congress and Senators and Representatives opt out of Obamacare? They continue to keep the insurance that they had previous to Obamacare. You know the insurance that they pay nothing for and have no deductibles or copays and get it for life. Do you wonder how something could be so good for American's yet they choose not to participate in it? Do you think that they know something about Obamacare that we don't? Also I wonder why the credit bureau is changing the way they rate hospital and doctor bills that end up in collection and on people's credit. They will be rating those items at a lower score as to not hurt the people as bad. Do you think they know what will happen to the creditworthiness of millions of American's who now have to pay huge portions of hospital and doctor bills? On a good note, it sure is nice to have a debate without all the hate and nastiness on this board. It has actually been a pleasure to join in on conversations even though we may disagree we can act like adults and debate the situation. I think for right now I can take my hardhat off. LOL.;

I'm keeping my hardhat handy...not all problems are off the board - As for the Obamascare

[ In Reply To ..]
No one has ever adequately answered the questions you posed.

Obamacare is NOT a good product and saying it is does not change the facts. Those that sing its' praises most likely have had nothing serious happen to them to realize the financial collapse Obamacare creates. When that happens to those with the blinders on that refuse to address or even recognize the endless problems with Obamacare, I feel sorry because they will surely need the psychiatric services at that point.

Obamacare was NEVER about healthcare and all about redistribution, total intrusion of the govt into our lives, and complete manipulation - plain and simple.

Nana7, as Ted Cruz said just today, he will be enrolling..sm - VTMT

[ In Reply To ..]
his family in Obamacare. Members of Congress are also subject to obtaining their health insurance subject to the ACA regulations, and they also receive a subsidy from their employer as do other employees all around America. Other federal employees do have a separate health care plan not associated with the ACA but very good and more comprehensive.

I heard Cruz say he would repeal ACA. - sm

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Obamacare is bad news!

VTMT, if he said he will be enrolling family in Obamacare he lied. - nana7

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First of all I don't get a subsidy from my employer to purchase insurance from anyone. I got penalized for trying to go outside the employer insurance.

Correct me if I am wrong but the politicians are given insurance through the Federal government and if they serve I believe 4 years they get that insurance for life. They don't buy their own.

Cruz is not eligible for Obamacare. First of all he does not meet the income guidelines to participate. Second he is offered employer based insurance so he does not qualify for the subsides and has to go outside the market place.

I tried to do this a couple of months ago because I don't like my employer based insurance. So I was penalized for going out of employer based insurance and did not quality for subsides. The cheapest price I found was Blue Cross Network for $980.00 a month with a $3,500 per person deductible and then a 70-30 split.

So for argument sake, lets take a scenerio of a catastrophy in the family and someone ended up in the hospital and the services for that was $75,000. First I would be paying $11,700 in insurance premiums for the year, then $3,500 for deductible and then the $30% of 22,500 for a grand total of $37,700 for one hospital stay. Now do you think bankruptcies are going to go way up? Cause if that happened to me and my husand it certainly would and then what would happen the next time and the next time. And that my friend is the reality of the Affordable Care Act. Affordable for who?

Now Cruz might be able to afford that because he is part of an elite group, the Senate, but he will not be enrolling in Obamacare and if he said that he is lying through his pretty pearly whites.

It is true and all over the news this morning. sm - VTMT

[ In Reply To ..]
The way he explained it was members of Congress are not eligible for the federal health insurance that other federal employees receive and get their insurance through the ACA just like the rest of us. Obviously they aren't going to get a subsidy because of low income but they do receive an allowance as part of their job benefits.

Maybe Fox news is not reporting it? - nm

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.

That's where I heard it. - nm

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nm

He is enrolling in Obamacare. - sm

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He said so himself.

As usual, the Liberal spin on this is disingenuous at best. With Cruz giving up Senate seat - he loses his "employer based'

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insurance. Cruz's wife has no insurance of her own; she had it through him (as many wives has coverage on their husband's policy). Based ON THE OBAMACARE LAW, he has to go through Obamacare to get insurance for his family.

Too bad those trying to put the Liberal spin and talking points all over this, refused to READ the part of the law, which specifically states, BY LAW, what Cruz has to do.

Sorry, your scenario is a total fabrication. nm - VTMT

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.

Cruz is now eligible for Obamacare because he gave up - Senate seat. The lies about this

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by the Libs is so out of control, it borders on pathological.

Because Cruz gave up Senate seat, he is no longer eligible for his insurance - HE HAS TO ENROLL IN OBAMACARE, which he is doing. His wife has no insurance of her own.

This law was specifically written like this by the Dems/Libs. Cruz follows the law, UNLIKE OBAMA ON ANY GIVEN ISSUES, and they try and vilify Cruz for it.

Show you just how the Libs supporting this law are ignorant of what it states.

Also shows you how they truly hate and have no tolerance for anyone not in lock step with them.

Cruz is complying with the law as signed by Obama and voted on by every Democrat....Republicans were smart enough to see the mess this bill was from top to bottom.

"Pathological," you said? - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
Cruz did not give up his Senate seat. He had insurance through his wife's job at Goldman Sachs. His wife is leaving her position while Cruz runs. He's losing the insurance they had through her employer.

Why would he give up his Senate seat? He didn't.

OMG! It is false that Ted Cruz has resigned from the Senate. nm - VTMT

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.

Now Ted Cruz can tell you first hand how bad - OBAMACARE is from personal experience

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Hope he has about $ 20,000.00 put aside in case anyone in his family needs Obamacare for any reason.

2 Pros and 2 Cons with Obamacare, IMO - Independent

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(Edited for clarity, 11:09 p.m.)

I've stayed out of that discussion, quite honestly, because I can see both sides on this issue, valid points made by both sides.

CON:
I think we were too broke to implement such a costly "experimental" program we can't afford - it was like taking out a credit card when there's not enough cash flow and charging everything to it.

PRO:
This is more of a theoretical observation/question more than a comment, but here goes (putting on my hard hat AND hiding under my desk after I write this):

Insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies, much like oil companies, can essentially lower and raise their rates and deductibles on a whim, as they are unregulated - much like we see gas prices - and they are not required by law to give a plausible reason.

The reason oil companies blame for raising gas prices may SOUND plausible, but sometimes you still go: "Hmm, I dunno...it still pretty much really seems like you raised your gas prices because it's the 4th of July when people travel most, not sudden 'shortage' of oil."

So if I understand the original intent of the Obamacare "plan" correctly, Obamacare was an attempt at regulation of soaring pharmaceutical and insurance costs without using "banning-type" legislation, because it would never pass Congress - lest we forget, lobbyists and their large campaign contributions from these companies pretty much put most of Congress in office, as well as many Congressmen are major shareholders in these companies ;)

So instead of "banning-style" regulation, Obamacare was created as a sort of "business competition" to create a "standard fair-market value" for insurance and pharmaceuticals. In theory, this was a very NONcommunist way of handling unregulated price-gouging and why I labeled this section "PRO". It was a brilliant idea in theory - cap the soaring cost of healthcare while still supporting capitalism.

However, as with most theories, here's what happened in application:

Now, let's say you were a monster conglomerate pharmaceutical or insurance company who was accustomed to raising your rates at whim, unregulated. You would, of course, HATE the idea of "standard fair market value" regulation by the government because you couldn't just keep charging $350 a bottle for pills that cost 9 cents to make - so what would you do?

Choose NOT participate and raise your rates and deductible astronomically and blame Obamacare. Or if you DID participate, raise your rates and blame you "had to" in order cover the difference between the rising cost of healthcare/pharmaceuticals and the "small" subsidy they claim their receiving.

And the fact that lobbyists from these companies essentially had such a hand in getting these men elected may also partially answer your other question - "why did they opt out of Obamacare?" ;)

I'm not saying any of this IS the case as fact, but it would explain much, if you look at it like gas prices/oil companies.

CON:
Your/others' complaints of ungodly out-of-pocket expenses is VERY valid, and is the part they didn't tell us when we signed up for this gig - this is the "lack of transparency" aspect Gruber and others on here are referring to and it mostly affects those who use the insurance most. (All insurance works that way, but it IS particularly bad with Obamacare plans.)

PRO:
Personal commentary, here, but I haven't been offered or able to afford insurance since 2006 until now. I'm just sorry it comes with so many other problems for so many other people that I feel guilty ever using it, though I've paid my taxes all along.

Okay - ducking now

you hit the nail on the head and I thnk part of the plan - nana7

[ In Reply To ..]
but I also think you are cutting them too much slack. First of all lobbyists have been around since the beginning of time speaking for huge corporations. Yes they line the pockets of politicians and then are due favors. That is very bad for the little people, the government knows it and does nothing about it because it benefits them personally and party-wise.

Second, the government has never intervened in price control. That is what is called free market, but rest assured when one "grocery store" raises prices they all raise prices. Same for every other business. Insurance companies are no different and shame on our government for not staying one step in front of them to protect us. I am sure the insurance companies couldn't get to the table fast enough now that its law that everyone has to have insurance to rake us over the coals for the almighty dollar.

The government should have known, and I believe they did know, this would happen.

So yes it is just like gas and oil prices but Wall Street has to figure in there too. Whole other discussion.

All Obamacare did was shift the responsibility of the uninsured to those that have insurance. So maybe I like the Cadillac my neighbor is driving and maybe he should pay more so I don't have to and I can get one.

Obamacare tied the hands of those who have employer based insurance. We can not go to the market place and get insurance. We don't qualify for any subsidies, so either I quit my job (which I would love to do) and take a hit financially or continue working and have subpar health insurance. Not a great choice to have to make.

I'm happy you and so many others are now able to have health insurance at a reasonable price, so in that respect it is good for you. For me and my husband not so good.

I will be 57 on Friday and thank God I am in good health, but that ride gets shorter and shorter every year. Health problems are starting to arise and I choose not to go to the doctors because of the out of pocket expenses. I am sure the insurance companies feel real bad about that!

Yes, yes, yes! The Asian Free Trade Agreement is another clue - Independent

[ In Reply To ..]
First of all - happy early birthday! :)

I am so glad there are other people out there that really think this stuff through logically without party blinders on, as well as know our country's history!

I voted for Obama and believe me, nobody knows better than me what a jagged little pill to swallow it is to find out he ain't the "hope" we'd hope for.

You know what I think the telltale signs are you could be right about the government having a "plan" with ACA? First of all, if I can figure it out - not being an economics major or math genius - you KNOW they had to know this was going to happen.

Secondly, the Asian Free Trade Agreement Obama's pushing for - you wanna do WHAT? Another foreign free trade agreement! Wait, holdup - what the WHAT??

He "says" it will not turn out like outsourcing to India and China and that they will put safeguards in place to prevent outsourcing, as well as better regulation on products.

Right, because you've been so upfront with us and transparent thus far, Obama and others - and you think you can regulate products in other countries? Keep dreamin'.

No, no, no - no more free trade agreements that line the pockets of only politician shareholders such as Clinton, the Bushes and now Obama's pockets but break us as a people - we can't even AFFORD the products they're selling because our jobs are gone overseas!

As proud as I am of our forefathers' plan for a government system and still only having one amendable constitution, two things I don't think our forefathers anticipated - lobbyists and our justice system.

What they underestimated, IMO, is the same thing people still underestimate today - human greed - we can never underestimate the element of human greed.

I honestly think many politicians get into that gig with good intentions, but just like Hollywood, something happens along the way - the fame, the power, the money - they become jaded which is when good people go bad.

Who knows, though - anyone who would want to be in politics at that level, in this day and age, is already questionable. It's like in Lord of the Rings - the people who want the ring don't deserve it. Never trust anyone who wants the ring from the getgo;)

I think the best we can hope for is to realize that politicians, especially at this level, are a pretty slimy bunch from the getgo, from both parties - so I try to focus on the message rather than the flawed message-bearer - as long as they vote the way I want them to, I don't care what their true motivations for doing things are or what they do in private. If they don't vote the way we want them to, well, that's when we have a problem.

PS - 03/25/2015 Edited: Well, not having enough caffeine yet, this morning, I put my email in two lines as my ID!

For the record, yes, that WAS my first name some of you saw in the ID line, but the gmail is from the old company I used to do temp work for, but the company went under.

don't feel bad I voted for him the first time too. - nana7

[ In Reply To ..]
I voted for him because of his upbringing. Poor, watching his mother struggle to get by. I even bought into his crap about all his mother went through when she was dying because of the insurance companies. I thought he was one of us, unknown, untainted, was not born with a silver spoon in his mouth, knew what it was like to have to work for a living, etc., I guess all the wrong reasons.

If they underestimaged human greed then they all need to listen to us, the people they say they represent, because we feel the greed everyday. Unfortunately in order for them to understand this they would have to look in the mirror and see they are part of the problem cause they are just as greedy.

Oh and thanks for wishing me a happy birthday.

I don't think the ACA is bad - marge

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Even though my premium more than tripled last year for worse coverage. I get what they are trying to do and the reasons behind it. I think the ACA has some great things in it and some great ideas, just not working to the best of its ability at this point.

As for why the elected officials are opting out? Cause they're crooks, same old crap. That's why they don't put into social security either. They've got something "better than everyone else". :(

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