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Less government is what we need

Posted: Oct 23, 2012

Why do Democrats think it okay for Obama to force us to buy health insurance but for government to stay out of our bedrooms? Why is it okay in some cases but not in others. I am a healthy person and rarely need any healthcare. Why should I subsidize people who make unhealthy decisions? I think we need to have affordable catastrophic health insurance but we don't need to provide insurance for hang nails or the sniffles.

;

so - I'm

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making unhealthy decisions because I have health insurance. With Obamacare, I won't have to keep paying for those who have no insurance to go in for hang nails or the sniffles, they can pay for it themselves. I also won't have to pay for all those healthy people like yourself, who get seriously hurt but don't buy insurance or even catastrophic insurance. Sounds fair to me.

Why is it that you get to decide what is fair? - JC

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That is problem with Democrats, they keep saying "fair", but who gets to decide what is "fair". Life isn't fair and it never, ever will be.

What is going to happen with Obamacare is that people are going to go to the doctor for a hang nail that previously woud not.

There are many cases where people on welfare use emergency rooms for an ear infection etc. I just don't think Obamacare is taking care of the problems in our healthcare system.

No one - said

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life is fair. What is fair is what works for the majority, and what we have been doing is only helping the rich and very poor and not the middle class who can't afford to have healthcare; you know, the unhealthy ones that want it, unlike yourself.

Okay JC, what do you think is fair?

What I think is fair - JC

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is to allow people to decide what healthcare they want. If you choose not get insurance and you need healthcare, then you pay for it. Even if it takes your whole life to do it. You should be responsible for your choices.

I think allowing healthcare companies to compete across state lines would help. I think allowing 100% write off of health care expenses is fair. Right now you can only write off over 7.5% of adjusted gross income. Obamacare raises that to 10%. I think patients should be required to review healthcare bills before they are paid so that only services provided are paid for. I think that anyone the fraudently files a claim for payment should be severly punished. There is so much fraud and waste in most government health care. Healthcare savings accounts would help (I think Obamacare severly limits them). Flexible spending accounts should be unlimited - Obamacare severely limits them.

We need to stop bailing people, companies, and governments out. Then people will stop and think about their actions because of the consequences.

"People will stop and think about their actions"??? - anon

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What exactly does this mean? You mean if someone has a massive heart attack or gets an aggressive form of cancer that they should face financial ruin because they're somehow to blame for their illness? How about a child with a brain tumor or someone who gets hurt in a catastrophic accident?

Sensationalizing again - JC

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If I take care of myself, eat right, don't smoke/drink, why should I have to pay for someone that doesn't. It just doesn't make sense. If someone has a congenital heart defect, that is different.

Catastrophic accident does not fall under consequences of their actions.

If you don't have accountability, then people will do whatever they want no matter the consequences. Maybe that sounds extreme but it seems our society is at the other extreme.

Not sensationalizing - anon

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I take care of myself, eat right, don't smoke/drink either, work out 4-5 times a week, and yet I was diagnosed with breast cancer last year. Fortunately, I'm covered by my husband's insurance (he's a cop, one of those despised public employees that the extreme right seem to loathe so much), so most of my medical bills were covered. If not, I'd be in the poor house right now, all because of a major illness.

It's a nice pipe dream to think you're somehow invincible...just don't be surprised if the universe smacks you in the head one day for your hubris.

300 million people need a lot of administration AND a lot of - freedom. They didn't use to be exclusive!

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THAT is what made America great. Competent government to keep the national engine tuned up and gas tank full combined with lots of individual freedoms.

You have a good point, though I disagree - Fanatical Hypocrite

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While it is true that people deprived of consequences tend to do more stupid things, I have never met any human being in my entire life on this planet that before picking up a cigarette thinks "Sure, I could get lung cancer, suffer terribly and then die miserable, but I'm afraid of the hospital bills." Do you know what the consequence of alcoholism, smoking and drugs are? Alcoholism, smoking and drugs. No one dumb enough, depressed enough or uneducated enough to take up a bad habit is going to stop because of added financial consequences.

As for why you should support them, it is two-pronged. First, you do right now and will have to no matter what unless you suggest that we round up and kill every sick person in the country in some kind of health care genocide. Because if they go to the ER to get treated their bill becomes your bill anyway. So, bar them from getting into the hospital so you don't have a bill. The ones that live are now transients, criminals and bitter people with nothing left to lose and a reason to hate the people they see going into the hospital and enjoying their lives of comfort. So when they turn disobedient you throw them in jail. Where you now pay for them every second or every day for the rest of their lives. The only solution other than taking responsibility for them before they become a massive burden is to round them up and kill them. I'm not a fan of genocide, so some way or another we are going to end up paying for them. It might as well be paying to fix them up and get the ones who aren't lazy good for nothings (a far larger slice of that pie than I think the reds believe as most of the sick people I know are hard working, good hearted people) back to work.

The second reason is we get into a situation where we have to pick out the worthy from the unworthy, which is the very risk with Obamacare that you are afraid of. Plenty of people work in sedentary jobs and don't have much time to exercise, what if they get fat? They don't get coverage because they brought it on themselves. What if you are a shift worker and develop insomnia? What if you smoke? Drugs? Alcohol? What about cellphones? Plenty of people believe they cause cancer. Doctors don't think so, but how can you be 100% sure of anything? What about chemicals we don't know cause cancer? People exposed themselves to asbestos all the time and didn't know it. What about meat? If you eat meat, you double your chance of colon cancer. I eat meat. If I get colon cancer should I be covered? Tofu causes breast and prostate cancer. What if two people with heart conditions have a baby? They intentionally created a sick person, right? What about mental disorders? Insanity is all in your head after all. Your parents were abusive, why is that my problem? Living under power lines. Extreme sports. Normal sports. Why should my premiums go up because a bunch of idiots think football is fun? I don't. What if I exercise 2 hours a day. I don't think people that exercise less than 1 hour are fit. What about guns? I don't think bullet wounds should be covered for people who own guns.

Look up diet books on Amazon. See how much people agree about what is and isn't healthy for you. Who decides what people are in optimal physical condition? What government or private agency will track everyone to make sure they don't smoke or drink or do drugs or eat poorly? Make sure they drink 8 glasses of water a day, exercise 20 minutes a day, sleep 8 hours, avoid dangerous situations, don't travel overseas to diseased third world countries, etc., etc. We can all nitpick each other to death about what we feel is or isn't healthy in each other's lives.

Should I have to pay because someone else made bad decisions? No. Will I? Yep. At some point will I make a bad decision? Definitely. Will you have to pay for it? Sorry. The world isn't fair as you so eloquently put it.

P.S. Why do so many people talk about personal responsibility, but the suggestion of increases to the sales tax of alcohol, tobacco, crap food and soda to pay for the excesses of others are deemed fascism? Isn't that the easiest and most direct way for people to pay for their bad habits without insinuation or investigation?

Here's suggestion - JC

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Why don't they based health insurance premiums the same way life insurance does? Why doesn't everyone complain when they have to pay more for life insurance if they are not within the norms for the blood work or if their parents had cancer. Health insurance premiums should be based on your use of the insurance, that way if I don't use my health insurance much, I don't pay as much. Instead of the tax on foods and other commodities increase the health insurance by the same amounts for people that use health insurance more?

There should be incentives for living a more healthy lifestyle. Being informed and taking an active role in your health should be important to people.

All I can say is follow the money. All government and corporate policies are there for a reason, the money. I think people are foolish to put so much reliance on the government doing the right thing. Just look at us, we don't agree on the right size and role of government. So, either the government is going to look like the way I want it or the way you want it. Who is right?

Very good points - Fanatical Hypocrite

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The main problem I see with putting health insurance on the same model as life insurance is that as you said if your parents had cancer you would pay more. Life insurance while very important, is also optional. Plenty of people I know have no life insurance. It's a shame, but they can't afford it. Health coverage of some kind is basically mandatory because while not everyone needs an inheritance, every human being will get sick at some point.

I have Crohn's disease so I'm biased. I've been sick and had to go to the hospital before. I didn't have health insurance because my company cancelled for it despite the fact that I'm full-time. When I got my new insurance, it had become a pre-existing condition. Now I've been deemed by the free market to be garbage because of something I was born with. I know countless others in the same boat or who have gone through similar problems. Essentially, a corporate death panel declared that I was unworthy of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

I don't mean to bring it up again, but how would you feel about a dangerous goods tax like I mentioned before (alcohol, tobacco, bad foods and soda) that could be used to pay for these things? I've been very curious about the opposition to that. At least for me, I can't imagine saying no to it and I do eat bad food and drink soda on occasion, so I would be among those affected by it, but that's just my feeling.

As for charging people less for not using their benefits as much, it's similar to how Medicare works. They invest the money that isn't being used or going to be used along with the others. Some of the people paying into Medicare throughout their lives die before collecting it and that money remains for those that didn't. The cost of the sick supporting themselves would be astronomical and would collapse under its own weight.

It's a tough issue though obviously.

I am afraid of giving the government the right to tax anything they want - JC

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The more we accept things being taxed the more things the government will start taxing. Slippery slope is all.

A simplified objective tax (like a flat tax or national sales tax) is what we need. Stop passing all these laws and taxes nobody can keep up with and understand. The soda tax in NYC has some many exclusions and it will be hard to keep up with.

JC: Do you have health insurance? If not, - are you wealthy SM

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enough to cover your hospital bills should something happen to you? If you don't, then I will be paying for you with an increase in my premiums.

I do have insurance - JC

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I initially got it just in case. If I didn't, your premiums wouldn't go up because I rarely if ever go to the doctor because I eat healthy, don't smoke or drink, and don't engage in any real risky behavior.

I don't hate the rich, I wish I was one of them.

If you had a choice what would you rather be? Instead of demonizing the rich, why not try to become one. Then you could use your own money to help people as you chose. Just like Bill Gates is doing or many of the other rich people like Oprah, the Ford Foundation, the Carnegie Foundation, etc.

I don't drive - but I pay for roads

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I'm okay with that. A civilized society needs roads. A healthy citizenry needs health care. We're supposed to have each others' backs.

You want the government - xx

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managing healthcare? Why? You want a board deciding on what kind of treatment you get and whether you even get it? Stop depending on the government. This is none of their business. I can't understand for the life of me if you all want to be managed by the government and for the government to "take care of you," then why don't you go to another country that can afford you that instead of trying to change what a GREAT country we are, and even GREATER country we were BEFORE Obama. Obama and his followers = SELFISH.

Death panels again, never heard that one - Fanatical Hypocrite

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I'm confused as to why people are more afraid of government run death panels than corporate death panels. Besides the fact that so far there is no evidence that there will be "death panels," so much as oversight committees. Yes, on occasion people may not get the medical care they so desperately need because there is a shortage of doctors (which is an unrelated issue that needs to be solved but neither candidate brings it up), but this is far better than the current system. Because the current death panels aren't deciding whether we have the resources to take care of you, they are actively thinking of ways to deny you to save money. So, if you had to pick between two judges, one who essentially wants you dead so they can keep their money or one that honestly reviews whether it's possible to help you, which would you prefer.

When did this idea spring up that health insurance companies are these little mom & pop operations where the friendly claims reviewer is fighting for your rights. The CEO goes to bed every night thinking "How can I help Joe Everyman?"

Now, I'm not a big Obamacare fan. It is a deeply flawed piece of work and if I had been president when it crossed my desk, I might well have thrown it in the trash, but nor is it the Earth consuming global disaster that people make it out to be. My main complaint is I wanted a public option (I know, how sinisterly socialist of me). The main fear with the public option among both parties seemed to be that their health insurance lobbyists (Democrats are just as much in bed with them as Republicans if you check the donations) didn't like the idea. What if competition with a corporate and financial powerhouse like the federal government destroyed the private health insurance companies? Yes, I would have wept day and night for the loss. Just as I weep for all the private fire departments and police departments that were never born because of national emergency services.

I'm glad that you have lived a life of luck and/or privilege and have never gotten seriously ill as no fault of your own, have never been so poor you could never afford health care, have no one you love who has ever suffered the injustice of a world where the rich can survive almost anything and the harder working poor drop like flies or suffer the burden of crushing life long debt, or if you ever have gotten sick that your insurance company for whatever reason decided to cover your condition, but to say there are people falling through the cracks is to call the Grand Canyon a crack. People with insurance are denied all the time. Premiums did, were and will continue to rise. Millions can't afford insurance or can and are stupid enough not to, thus forcing the rest of us to pay for their ignorance. Hospital bills are the number one cause of bankruptcy (twice as much as the next cause down).

Obamacare is flawed and should have been handled better. It also should have been a bipartisan effort with compromises on both sides. But as far as things that have fallen out of the White House in the last 30 years it's not so bad.

The bill establishes at least 10 different boards and numerous new bureaucracies - JC

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If you think that government cares more for you than the private sector, you are very wrong. I work for the government, it is more CYA than helping people.

People need to get off their asses and do something. Consumers drive business decisions just as much as the government, if not more. We need to be more aggressive but government puts up road blocks. I can't purchase cheaper insurance in another state because of government. There is no competition in healthcare. In one southern state there is only one provider I heard. I am against denying for preconditions, I am against and accountant determining what drugs are covered. We need more competition, not less via a single payer. We gladly bend over to government and corporations and take it. The amount of voter participation in this country is pathetic. We expect someone else to do stuff for us. We need to stand up to governemnt and business, but instead we sit on our ass on the couch and watch American Idol (or insert another mindless show) and vote there.

We let things happen here in this country because we are too "busy".

The Obamacare is majorly flawed. 2,000 plus pages that hardly anyone who voted for it read it before they voted. And don't give me this excuse their staff read it. This bill was too important to rely on someone else's interpretation. Even though the bill was 2,000 pages long, they still need to write thousands of pages of regulations just to implement it. Horrible, horrible bill. If the bill was allows to be reviewed by the people (there are a lot of special interest groups out there that would have read every sentence of the bill on both sides and in the middle) and we were allowed to have input, maybe the bill would have been more palatable.

A civilized society needs people that take of themselves as well - JC

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Just because you don't drive doesn't mean your body never travels on a road. Also, all the products you buy were at one point in a vehicle that traveled on a road. So, you do utilize roads directly on indirectly.

Having each other backs? So should we help buy other peoples' houses, clothes, tvs, cars, food, cable, etc.

There are a lot more responsible ways to address the health care in this country. During the whole Obamacare bill, not one Republican was involved in the drafting of the bill. This bill was written by a leftist organization before Obama was even inaugurated.

Really - ?

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This bill was put together by both sides and is a lot of what Romney did in Mass. Leftist organization, REALLY?

A state has the righ to do it and the Federal government does not - JC

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The bill was absolutely not put together by both sides. Do we live on the same planet? You really think they put together that 2,000+ page monstrosity together after Obama was inaugurated? I am not sure any Republican liked the bill. How can you say they helped put it together?

I don't agree with everything Romney does or did. If I did, I would be a zombie. To me the biggest black mark is his healthcare bill in Massachussetts. However, we need someone that can balance a budget and work with both parties. Romney has done both with incredible results in the private sector, as a governor, and with the Olympics.

Everybody agrees with your start. It's the failure to connect that with - your conclusions that loses us.nm

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x

Please provide just one instance....sm - JTBB

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when Republicans made government smaller when they were in power.

That's the problem, it has rarely happened in modern history - JC

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I think the Republicans are the lesser of two evils. It seems that the newer Republicans are more willing to get to a balanced budget.

I believe Romney will balance the budget. That is something neither party as a whole seems to be willing to do.

For Obama to say he will cut spending is ludicrous. Why hasn't he already done it? The Congressional Budget says the Federal Debt will increase to $20 trillion in ten years. If that doesn't scare you, nothing will.

JC, President Clinton balanced the budget one Bush left, - and the next Bush promptly unbalanced it.nm

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The notion that the GOP is the party oof fiscal responsibility is a fantasy. nm

He didn't do it until he was forced to when Republican won the House and Senate - JC

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See for yourself at: http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/budget/fy2013/assets/hist.pdf

Go to page 26. The Republicans won the mid-term elections of 1994. The Republicans fought for a balanced balance and in the first year of the Republican congress, the deficit declined 19%, then declined 34% in the next year, then declined 80%, then there were surpluses for the next two years of Clintons term. There was surplus in Bush's first two years of which one was obviously based on Clinton's last budget. This all probably happened because of welfare reform that the Republicans got Clinton to finally sign.

As for Bush, I have always been disappointed in his not vetoing budgets that had large deficits.

Aping a party's mantra without questioning and applying common - sense is classic authoritarian follower behavior.n

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x

Yeah! - RC

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And why should I pay for schools, when I don't have kids? Those brats need to get a job!

:P

FYI we homeschool and our child cannot participate in school activities - JC

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yet we still pay school taxes.

I live in NY and we pay through the nose for school taxes ($4,400/year).

There is a better way - school vouchers or some kind of credit if you homeschool.

I don't have children, yet 85% of my local taxes go to schools. sm - anon

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That is just the way it is. Should I go around yelling to abolish local property tax because I don't have kids? Do I resent having to pay so much takes for something that benefits me very little? I sure do. But, that is the way it is....

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