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Is it time to include gross incompetence as
Posted: May 25, 2014
Is there any reason that gross incompetence is not just as much grounds for impeachment as grossly illegal acts? In fact, there are a number of democracies where the prime minister CAN be fired for loss of confidence - which is the same thing.
I'm sure no one needs to ask why I ask the question. Should the bar for removal be set so high that it all but guarantees that the nation must suffer the catastrophic damage caused by an utterly inept President merely because he's managed to skate along the letter of the law?
No organization would last for long if committing crime were the only reason that the chief executive officer could be removed from his position, now would it?
Incompetence MUST be a reason for removal, and we are seeing now in painful experience exactly why.
;
The same thing? - Seriously
[ In Reply To ..]You begin your statement with the premise that loss of confidence and gross incompetence are the same thing. I respectfully disagree. For instance, it is possible to make your mind up about someone or something before they've even taken the oath of office or done anything at all, i.e., to never have had any confidence in a person before they've even been sworn in.
Does one party's pre-formulated decision to block every proposal made by another party constitute gross incompetence on the part of the nominee, regardless of party affiliation, before the victor has taken the oath of office? I'm sure no one needs to ask why I ask the question.
And what would be the barometer for this impeachment? The current POTUS was reelected. No good? Didn't like the outcome? Maybe approval ratings then? Let's go with those "votes" then. Let's tally today's scores, shall we? The people's approval ratings for the POTUS are approximately 44% and Congress....... ouch 16%.
Oh, sorry Congress. You have been given a vote of "no confidence." It seems in your zeal to take out the POTUS, you have in fact managed to take out yourselves......... but we have some nice parting gifts for you.
You don't understand how "no-confidence" works - in other governments.
[ In Reply To ..]Do a little research and get back to us.
More to the point, you failed to address the question at all: Should gross incompetence be grounds for impeachment or not? If not, why not?
Agree to Disagree - Seriously
[ In Reply To ..]I understand exactly how a vote of no confidence works. I suspect that if our founding fathers were so smitten with the parliamentary democratic system they gave their lives and spilled blood to break free of, there would have been no need for the Englishmen to break free from "mother" England.
"I am of the opinion that when once these rebels have felt a smart blow, they will submit; and no situation can ever change my fixed resolution, either to bring the colonies to due obedience to the legislature of the mother country or to cast them off!" King George (in his speech to parliament, 1775)
Thank God and the rag-tag misfits that were our first military that these "rebels" did not submit. If they had wanted a repeat government of the one they had just vanquished at great loss of life and limb to the Colonies, they could have set it up right straight away, mate. Jolly glad they broke free and decided to have a country "of the people, by the people, and for the people."
Strange view of history. It wasn't objection to the - ...sm
[ In Reply To ..]...the parliamentary system in England that motivated the founding fathers.
and, of course, you still haven't answered the question. Should gross incompetence be grounds for impeachment? Forget about "no-confidence" - it isn't the crux of the issue I raised.
The Founding Fathers Rejected It - Seriously
[ In Reply To ..]Of course I answered it. The founding fathers saw no need for it and wanted rule by the people, not Parliament with its peerage rulers in the House of Lords and Absolute Monarchs in the form of kings and queens that were not elected "by the people." I see no need for alteration by the people who don't like the outcome of the election of the majority "of the people, by the people, for the people."
IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776.
"The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America, ............
The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world...............
He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:
For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:
For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:
For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:
For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences........"
What group of people in England passed the Sugar Act, the Stamp Act, the Tea Act, the Boston Port Act, the Massachusetts Government Act, and the final straw, the Quartering Act that the Colonials wrote about here?
"In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people. Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our Brittish brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends."
etc., etc., etc.
So who do you think the Colonists were exactly objecting to that were making all those laws they opposed in concert with King George?
Looking back on the Revolution at the end of his life, John Adams wrote:
"The Revolution was effected before the War commenced. The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people." Though most colonists did not have the time or luxury to read sophisticated Enlightenment treatises on political philosophy or theories on the rights of man, they understood, viscerally, the actions of Parliament, and subsequently of the king, as a threat to their liberty..........
and that was enough.
Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh {pick me} - Me
[ In Reply To ..]What group of people in Great Britain passed............?
The Sugar Act................... Parliament, April 5, 1764
The Stamp Act.................. Parliament, March 22, 1765
The Tea Act....................... Parliament, May 10, 1773
The Boston Port Act............ Parliament, March 31, 1774
The Massachusetts
Government Act............... Parliament, May 20, 1774
The Quartering Act ............ Parliament, June 2, 1774 (amended)
Why would anybody think we had a problem with the Parliament system of Great Britain, just because they actually wrote out their grievances one by one against them in the Declaration of Independence? (sarcasm)
Interesting view on history... Interesting but true!
I love your posts. Your answers are very well thought out - and expressed perfectly
[ In Reply To ..]I don't really have anything political to add. Just wanted to say I've enjoyed reading your responses.
I don't. - sm
[ In Reply To ..]Although pseudoeducational, they're a bit too wordy and uppity for my taste.
The Declaration of Independence is........ - LOL
[ In Reply To ..]A large portion of the post is a direct quote from the Declaration of Independence!
It's bascially a long rant from a bygone era. The colonists knew that sometimes "uppity" is what it takes to get a bully's attention. As in, those "uppity" colonists were tired of getting bossed around, their concerns ignored time after time and basically falling on deaf ears who'd already made their minds up before a word was uttered.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
Uppity.......... it ain't just an insult! It's a badge of honor.
I was referring to more than one post. - LOL
[ In Reply To ..]Maybe I should have used a different word. Condescending perhaps? But maybe that would run the same risk of you implying that I am a bully? If so, okay, you win. I'll just keep my opinions to myself, but will you?
Misinterpreted - The person you responded to.
[ In Reply To ..]What's wrong with uppity? It's just your opinion. I don't think you should have used a different word if that's the one you wanted to use. I don't think the posts are condescending. I think the OP asked a question, and then somebody answered with their opinion and then the OP asked more questions. Maybe the original post asking the question seemed condescending so the answer to the post seemed condescending? If you don't like the answer, oh well, it's just somebody's opinion, and not everyone is going to agree with it.
I borrowed your word "uppity" to describe the colonists, and then I actually used the word bully to describe Great Britain (although not sure why you think it was directed at you personally). I think the colonists fit the word uppity, and I'm glad they were.
I won't keep my opinions to myself, and I suspect neither will other posters on the "Politics" chat board, being that people's opinions are actually what it is meant for. If someone asks a question, getting a response that they may not agree with should really not come as such a surprise.
My apologies to you. - sm
[ In Reply To ..]I seriously thought I was responding back to the poster who loves Seriously's posts or Seriously himself or herself as that was the poster to whom I responded. I was disagreeing with the person who loves Seriously's posts. This is getting farcical like, "Who's on First?" LOL
I totally agree with you! - nm
[ In Reply To ..]
We are no longer a country that believes - sm
[ In Reply To ..]in "of the people, by the people, and for the people."
Instead, it's of the lobbyists, by the paid-off Congress and for the corporations.
I don't believe our founding fathers believed in serfdom, but that's exactly what this country is very quickly becoming.
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