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Instructors who hit on you are frickin' gross
Posted: Mar 9, 2013
Being a single (and how!) MT for so many years (cough, decade-plus), haven't exactly been around men all that much, in the social sense - yes, I've been a bit of a nun.
So in my painting class, it's kind of "Rainin' Men" if you get my song reference.
Besides, that I LOVE PAINTING. I go to my painting class, and sometimes when I get home...I paint some more.
So, in class, I am joking around with everyone else, making my (to my mind) witty comments, having fun. NOT flirting, I know the difference!!!!! I'm a menopausal woman!!!!! I've been around a block or two!
The instructor is expressing interest in me, which is JUST GROSS. I start second-guessing myself, like, I shouldn't wear those earrings - put on lipstick - comb my hair, etc. Mind you, I go there after working in daycare, and I've got lots of "MT sit on your butt" weight to lose - I mean, I don't even look or FEEL so hot when I get there! I just thought taking a class with men in it, I could just "practice" looking a little nicer, carrying on a conversation about something I care about (painting) with men in a non-stressful, non-dating situation - you know, NOT flirting, just TALKING!!!!!!
We have one more class session - I'm hoping I can find another class at night (not a morning person) without him as an instructor. I like the other people in the class, and would like to keep taking it. But I just don't want to deal with this inappropriate, gross, killjoy of an instructor.
;
So - anon
[ In Reply To ..]How does he hit on you then? Maybe he's just being friendly and you're being over-sensitive?
Nope, the other men are friendly... - wheres_my_job
[ In Reply To ..]and he's being gross and inappropriate. There are a lot of men in this class. Just getting up the nerve to say something to him. I liked the one coworker I had way back when, she used to say, "Too Much Information!!!" all the time, and walk away from inappropriate male coworker. I think I might try, "let's not go there."
Gross instructor - Been single a realllly long time
[ In Reply To ..]You are getting what you went looking for...a chance to put yourself out in the outside world and enjoy yourself doing it. Just smile and ignore him. He will get the message. If you otherwise enjoy the other people in the class don't let him drive you away. Take it as an atta girl, you still have something that is attracting men, even after years of sitting on your butt all day in virtual isolation. :)
LOL - wheres_my_job
[ In Reply To ..]nm
keep going - anon
[ In Reply To ..]I totally agree. Keep going. Don't find a new instructor. Ignore him.
Go, and after I lost weight I was getting hit on all the time - Carol
[ In Reply To ..]Do your thing girl and enjoy it. Just take precautions, you never know what someone will do other than just flirt. Experience talking here.
?? - anonr
[ In Reply To ..]It sounds like he's not doing "gross" things, just, as you said "expressing interest". You don't have to second guess yourself. You're both adults. Smile, handle it graciously, thank you, walk away, politely let him know you're not interested. I think you're over-reacting.
You're entitled to your opinion - wheres_my_job
[ In Reply To ..]He's being gross - is mentioning how he doesn't want to get circumcised (he's in his 70s) gross, coming from a painting instructor? Yes, it is gross.
he mentioned not wanting to get circumcised? - Snow Bunny (the original)
[ In Reply To ..]I probably would have said, "I see you're not Mrs. Focker's little boy."
And anyone who has seen the second Fockers movie with Hoffman and Streitsand will get the hint.
LOL - you got me there - wheres_my_job
[ In Reply To ..]thanks for the laugh - I've only caught bits and pieces (no pun intended, I think) of the Fockers movie of which you speak. Haha, good one, why didn't I think of mentioning that?
why don't you just tell him - Snow Bunny (the original)
[ In Reply To ..]That you don't pitch for the same team. (IOW, you're gay).
Or I could say I'm "in a relationship" - wheres_my_job
[ In Reply To ..]I did think of this, however, in my experience, if you even "go there" in any way (acknowledge the icky behavior) it just gets you more of it.
I AM going to say something next time - it's the last class meeting of this session, and the next one starts in a few weeks. We're having a "party" LOL, last day of class. I may say "jokingly," "do I need to report you to adult ed?" (It's an adult ed class). Although I like "let's not go there" better.
Frickin' gross instructor - Travelin MT
[ In Reply To ..]OK, my 2 cents. I taught adult Ed. For over 12 years. What he is doing IS sexual harassment. Sexual harassment was a required class lesson in my class. So here is what you need to do:
1. ADDRESS IT: Next time he says something inappropriate tell him, you do not appreciate it and you want him to STOP IT! Be serious and stern, no embarrassed giggles.
DOCUMENT IT (DATE, TIME, ANY WITNESSES)
2. If he does it again, make an appointment with his supervisor, every adult school has someone over the teachers. Take your documentation with you and show it to the supervisor. Tell the supervisor, you expect him/her to talk to the instructor and take appropriate action. Ask to see their policy for sexual harassment.
DOCUMENT YOUR MEETING...DATE, TIME, WHAT WAS REPORTED, ETC.
3. If it happens again make an appointment with the Adult school administrator with the above documentation and tell him/ her your next meeting will be with an attorney to file sexual harassment charges against the instructor, administration and the school district for not taking action.
DOCUMENT IT (DATE, TIME, WHAT WAS REPORTED).
I think you can see what these actions are doing, you are reporting and documenting each encounter, making an appointment should leave a documentation trail via an office calendar. A verbal encounter on campus without an appointment can be a he said, she
said scenario in a legal proceeding.
You have a right as a student enrolled in a class to expect to be in a learning environment free from inappropriate behavior in the classroom. If a fellow student was doing it, your instructor would be expected to stop it.
Thank you! - wheres_my_job
[ In Reply To ..]It's what I needed to hear. I don't ever giggle in embarrassment - what I do is, dab at my painting with my paintbrush in silence. One time I curled my toe in my shoe (I know, a helpful response, right?)
I could always just print up your comments and hand them to him, hey, here's a special luuuvvv letter, from me to you!!! Hearts and rainbows!
I think regardless of how I handle things this week, I'll print up your comments and take them with me - for inspiration.
Thanks again!
Thank -You - nm - You're welcome
[ In Reply To ..]xxxx
that's ineffective and indirect - sm
[ In Reply To ..]In a relationship or not, I don't need to hear anyone tell me anything about their penis. It's a no-brainer. Possible things you could say:
1)Too much information...Dick.
2)Kindly refrain from that kind of talk.
3)Please watch your mouth.
I might favor saying nothing, raising my brow, and leveling a warning gaze.
Just to clarify - referencing circumcision is gross - wheres_my_job
[ In Reply To ..]If an instructor says at his last visit at his doctor's, the doctor wanted him to get a circumcision, but he doesn't want to get one, heh, heh, that's GROSS.
It's a PAINTING instructor. I'm FEMALE, I don't need to know you're not circumcised. Add in all the other stuff he does, he's gross.
gross - anon
[ In Reply To ..]If you think he is gross, he is probably gross. Go with your instincts.
My 2 cents - Ayn
[ In Reply To ..]I don't know all the specifics of the situation, so how can I really say which is the case, but from what I've read so far I'd say it could go either way -- He's just a gross old man or he's hitting on you. Does he talk to all the women or even all the students like this? I've worked with a couple people in the past (all in positions above me) -- one was an actual predator type and was terminated for sexual harrasment (by another employee, not me) and 2 were just gross, inappropriate people who didn't have any class or manners. One was male, one was female. Both liked to talk about their bodily functions, sexual (mis)adventures, etc to anyone who would listen. And if you were polite once and listened, then they kept coming back again thinking you were of like mind. Neither was "hitting on" anyone by talking about sexual things, they just had no filter in their head to tell them it was inappropriate conversation. To them it was perfectly normal/funny/casual conversation, and they enjoyed "bathroom humor" and sexual innuendo.
Bottom line - whether he's just a social nincompoop or actually hitting on you (discussing circumcision -- what a ridiculous pick-up line anyway!) -- if he is making you feel uncomfortable you should act on that. You and he are both adults - tell him his line of conversation makes you uncomfortable. It it doesn't end, then decide if you want to take it the next step and go to his superior to file a complaint. Or shrug it off as just an old guy who shares too much private info and ignore him, don't engage him in conversation unless absolutely necessary regarding the class and quickly steer him back on track of the conversation if he veers into personal info again. It may be worth talking about with other women in your class to see if they get the same vibes from him as you. Or, if there are no other women in the class, maybe he just sees you as another one of the guys??
Either way - it is obviously a situation that is making you uncomfortable, and I hope you get it resolved soon & without further problems!
No, he doesn't talk to the other women like this... - wheres_my_job
[ In Reply To ..]...it's a weird dynamic, in terms of age I'm a bit younger than most (though I'm in my 50s), and a lot of the women are from Taiwan, nonnative speakers of English, as we say in MT biz...and I'm a native speaker of English, born in Midwest, etc. So I guess that makes me all sparkly super-desirable in his eyes (blech). I have had men "express interest" in me before (LOL, unbelievable as it may be to myself at this stage of my life), and he's definitely doing that.
At the start of class, he had the newbies sit in the front, so that's where I sat - I'm thinking I'll go sit in the back, if I still take painting with him, so I'll be buried back there with the rest of the women (so if he says something stupid, he has to say it to all of us, not just me).
Thanks for the input. It helps to think things through, like, how do I want to handle this? The whole situation brings up a lot of crap from my past. So thanks for your 2 cents.
NO matter how you cut it....this guy is .... - chancesare
[ In Reply To ..]scum. A sexual predator with the swag and speak. Unfortunately, I have been a victim of that in the past. I learned the hard way that you can't, shouldn't be nice to the guy when you reject his advances. Your feelings are right on the money. If you say nicely that you aren't interested, gay, bi, whatever, he will probably still persist. That was my experience. It may not be yours but I am guessing it is. Be careful around this person. Take care!
Thank you - that's just how I feel too - wheres_my_job
[ In Reply To ..]If you say nicely that you aren't interested, gay, bi, whatever, he will probably still persist. -- Exactly.
GREAT pun, intended or not! - sm
[ In Reply To ..]That would be a great comeback for the OP. Can you imagine?
"Umm, instructor, about your circumcision...no matter how you cut it, I don't need to hear about it!"
No matter how you slice it and dice it... - wheres_my_job
[ In Reply To ..]I don't wanna hear about it...LOL
Sounds like you are hung up on his "instructor" status - anon
[ In Reply To ..]This is a class you're taking because you enjoy painting as a hobby. It's not the same as someone who is being "hit on" by an instructor in a degree-granting setting like college where success/failure can affect future income. In that situation an instructor has some power over a student which can be compromising. In your case,
this is a guy who's showing people painting techniques either for free or a nominal fee. He's no different from a guy in a bar showing you how to tie a maraschino cherry stem with his tongue, so don't let him intimidate you. A woman who's been around the block knows a few techniques of her own to let him know his interest/comments aren't appreciated.
He is different than a "guy in a bar" - wheres_my_job
[ In Reply To ..]I don't "enjoy painting as a hobby." I would like to get into some kind of degree or certificate-granting program in the arts, and build a portfolio, and have my paintings in shows.
He has known a relative of mine (by marriage) who IS a professional painter, and they go way back. The local arts community (ANY local arts community) can be a clique-y place. He's established. I'm not. So it's not as simple as some guy in a bar.
But thanks for your input anyway. Still mulling over how to handle things in a way that's helpful to me, and not buying me future problems in the little local arts community.
Thanks for clarifying - anon
[ In Reply To ..]Your situation is a bit trickier considering your local arts community is small and you will be dealing with the same group of people for a while at least. Sometimes lighthearted mocking can be effective like softly singing Stevie Wonder's "Superstitious" instead substituting the word "circumcision." Make up a verse just for your instructor!
That's a good one too! - wheres_my_job
[ In Reply To ..]one of the lines in the song is: "when you believe in things that you don't understand / then you suffer / CIRCUMCISION ain't the way
LOL, thanks!
Hey, cut the instructor some slack sm - justm2
[ In Reply To ..]You write "I just thought taking a class with men in it, I could just "practice" looking a little nicer, carrying on a conversation about something I care about (painting) with men in a non-stressful, non-dating situation - you know, NOT flirting, just TALKING!!!!!!"
So, you practiced looking nicer, you have a witty personality, wanted to have a conversation about something you care about, (painting) with men who share the same interest as you etc., and one of the men in the class, the instructor, who is one of the men in the class (and men are men instructors or not)takes an interest in you but not in the exact way that you wanted this "practice" to go, so now the guy is "gross."
I'm not trying to be nasty or sarcastic in any way, but cut the instructor some slack for not realizing that he was just a "practice" canvas and for going off your script a bit. )
It's called a power differential... - wheres_my_job
[ In Reply To ..]Wow, ever hear of sexual harrassment? It really happens, it really is inappropriate behavior, and if the company you work for finds out about it, you can get fired.
These aren't lessons you get for free in his home. He works for the school district.
Doesn't matter what I look like, or whether I'm "practicing" getting out in the world or being around men, carrying on a conversation etc - there's a line you don't cross when someone is paying you as a teacher, and you work for a school district.
The comments I get here on MT board are really enlightening, I must say. Wow.
You know, if you are paying for this class - then
[ In Reply To ..]the power differential is in your favor. If you're paying, you get to make the rules. Stand up for yourself.
Standing up for oneself - Anonymous
[ In Reply To ..]I absolutely agree. This is the 21st century. If his behavior is inappropriate, you need to tell him that you are uncomfortable. Sexual harrassment is never acceptable, if that is what you are calling this. You've been around the block, so only you can make that determination. If it is bad enough, you also have the right to report it to the school.
Oh my gawd......you have got to be ..... - chancesare
[ In Reply To ..]kidding! It IS NOT okay for a relative stranger to talk about his penis to someone he does not know (much less someone he does)! Your statement is outrageous and a good example of people who don't or won't or can't stand up for decency.
define decency - Snow Bunny (the original)
[ In Reply To ..]Some people think a woman who breastfeeds in public, without draping a towel over her bosom, to be indecent.
This isn't about breast feeding, this is - chancesare
[ In Reply To ..]about sexual statements being made to someone which is way out of line no matter where she is. In a bar it would be out of line much less a class! Can you imagine going to a bar all dolled up and have someone come over to you and state, "when I saw my doctor, he said my penis looked funny, what should I do about it." ! Oh, what a great pick-up line! LOL And yes, decency has a lot of definitions, depending on the person.
You said the word "decency" - Snow Bunny (the original)
[ In Reply To ..]I merely made a comparison. What is indecent to one person is not necessarily indecent to another.
With regard to the example you provide (getting dolled up and all that) ... if I were in that situation today, my response would depend upon mood at the moment. If I were going to act like an adult I probably would have said, "I think you need to discuss this with psychiatrist." If I had already had a couple of drinks, chances are I would have said to the guy, "Let me see what you're talking about. Whip it out and I'll let you know what I think."
I give it as good as I get.
Talking about one's penis is more than a little - off script...
[ In Reply To ..]I don't believe she needs to cut him any slack, and it's reprehensible for you to blame the OP as you are doing. So, if she puts makeup on some guy should talk to her about his penis? Sorry, hon, but that's not even appropriate on a DATE!
sounds like you are in high school and this is a first. SURELY you know how - to handle this. so go handle it. NM
[ In Reply To ..]good Lord.
Good Lord....SURELY she needed to vent and - none
[ In Reply To ..]share so, before you tell her to "handle it" maybe YOU should use some tact. You came across, to me, as a person who is blunt and not very nice about it. She needs support, not your smart mouth. That isn't right.
she's looking for attention IMHO and I spoke my mind. - and you spoke yours. no problem here. NM
[ In Reply To ..]<>
What's wrong with looking for attention? - wheres_my_job
[ In Reply To ..]You're doing the same thing when you post your comments - looking for attention for your point of view. We're all doing it, every time we post something on a message board.
The feedback I'm getting is useful to me, in figuring out how to respond to the situation - it's not obvious. So I appreciate the attention, er, feedback I've been getting.
the problem is your duplicity - wutdoywant
[ In Reply To ..]You are complaining of unwanted attention and tend to have more posts than the average person on this website. I think you need the attention even when you protest the kind of attention you get.
Man, I guess it's just me but could you... - none
[ In Reply To ..]please explain what you mean? It sounds like (to me)that you are saying it is okay for this piece of (#$% to say anything he wants to her because she is looking for attention. Wow.... It does not give him or anyone else the right to degrade her in this manner. Do you think she got what she deserved? And, what was she asking for?! It is just not OK.
what I mean - WDYW
[ In Reply To ..]Person A has a self-confessed need for attention. Person A, being a grown woman with big em, hips, is disgusted by the attention she gets while being em, engaging. Attention that, being a grown woman should by now know the appropriate way to handle it, while unwanted is clearly being enjoyed. Person A admits this board is her stress reliever and happily goes to work while the rest of us bicker about whether or not she deserved the wanted/unwanted attention, regardless of whether anyone agrees was wanted/unwanted.
It could be said that Person A has a need to manipulate the people on this board for her own unending source of entertainment. If you want to play in her personal little sandbox, I won't object to it.
Ya know, you're right. I reread the posts and - none
[ In Reply To ..]Yes, I think you are right. I wanted to "help" her and then it became obvious that she liked the attention, not necesarily the issue. And, I am all about the issue and not regret trying to help her. I don't think she needs it either. Good catch!
My opinion - concurr
[ In Reply To ..]As far as I'm concerned, wmj is a troll with a moniker.
Great insight and post - agree with the other 2 replies too - The Sarge
[ In Reply To ..]especially concur's. When you've been reading the board long enough it's easy to spot. Good post. Thanks.
I said she is looking for attention meaning from this board. - she is constantly provoking not provocative.NM
[ In Reply To ..][
Duplicitous? What? She somehow got in - none
[ In Reply To ..]there and participated in this scum bags' verbal abuse?
hilarity ensues - wheres_my_job
[ In Reply To ..]I see my fan club is alive and well!
this is in response to wutdoywant - wheres_my_job
[ In Reply To ..]just for clarity's sake. Gotta go to work now - stressful - but MT board sure is a stress reliever!
wierdo - kay
[ In Reply To ..]I think we all learned a few things on this thread.:)
Looks like the person who posts anonymously - has more posts than wmj (nm)
[ In Reply To ..]x
lol. THE person - try several people. I only have 2 here and now this one to - you. Assumptions are never valid. NM
[ In Reply To ..]]
Well, yeah, I know that - sm
[ In Reply To ..]It just bugs me when a person who posts with a moniker consistently gets bullied for posting "too much," when anyone else who doesn't use a moniker can just post all over the place and free from the bullying tactic of accusing someone of over-posting.
Why not just ignore the thread or don't contribute if you think the person has another motive besides just starting a conversation, or if the subject matter is not up your alley, just leave alone. Don't be hurtful or insulting. People have feelings.
Disclaimer: I'm not talking to you personally, just anyone who might think it's okay to be insulting and hurtful, when it's just as easy to roll eyes at the monitor and leave the keyboard alone.
Okay, I have a suggestion to solve this - sm
[ In Reply To ..]I had a similar situation years ago. Mine was a drop dead gorgious guy who came to work in an office with women. He wanted to fit into the conversations, but he gave way too much information we wanted to know. This is what my supervisor did and what you should do.
Say this to the guy. Guarantee you it will stop him from his "grossness".
Say "I'm not interested. I came to the class to paint. I'm not interested in a date or in your personal life. Your comments make me feel uncomfortable and I wish you to refrain from saying the things you've been saying around me".
That's it. Pretty simple. He will stop the conversation and we won't have a half a page of posts to read about how some guy is "gross".
That's what I was formulating... - wheres_my_job
[ In Reply To ..]the hard part (for me, maybe someone else would find it easier) is I may have to say this in front of other people - I'm NOT going to fan the flames by asking to talk to him after class. So it won't matter if he says something directly to me, or to everybody, or to himself, or to someone else, if I'm in earshot, I'm going to let him know I don't want to hear it.
It's very strange to me that so many people would weigh in on this, I mean really, who cares, I thought I'd get a few responses. Strange but enlightening, I suppose.
Thanks for your comments!
I knew what to do without asking anyone - when I was barely 16
[ In Reply To ..]I was hired when I was 15 (against child labor laws in my state, but did not know it then) to work in a burger joint that also served chili and fried chicken. That December I was working at the front taking orders when I relayed to the kitchen I needed an order for chicken breasts. All the registers were open because we were slammed. As I placed the order, the manager made a comment about the size of breasts today (loudly enough for the customers to hear). Without a blink, I told him it was a good thing we were serving breasts and not penises because I would hate to disappoint the customers because we would be coming up short today.
My face was beet red and I wanted to run, but I turned away to face the people in line. They started clapping.
I was awarded employee of the month in January, given a plaque and a dozen red roses.
You don't need all the attention you demand from this board and you should know how to handle it at your age. For crying out loud, if I knew the right thing to do at age 16 years and 2 months, it should be a no-brainer for you.
If I could like your post more, I would!!!! - nm
[ In Reply To ..]nm
I haven't "demanded" anything...LOL - wheres_my_job
[ In Reply To ..]And it certainly is NOT going to work in a classroom setting, to engage in witty sexual repartee with an instructor whose behavior meets the definition of sexual harassment - it will just add fuel to the fire, and encourage the undesirable behavior.
Actually what got rewarded in that situation at the age of 16 years and 2 months, could get you fired on the spot somewhere else. Not all workplaces are the same. Seems like a no-brainer for anyone over the age of 20, but maybe not.
Re: "demanding" - nobody had to respond to this post at all. I have no idea why the hostility and vitriol from certain people - I mean, really, who cares what I have to say? Apparently, you and your ilk care a lot. WMJ fan club lives on.
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