A community of 30,000 US Transcriptionist serving Medical Transcription Industry

Indefinite detention bill embedded in the 2012 National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA)


Posted: Dec 19, 2011

I am woefully uninformed, but a friend is saying it gives the military unlimited power over US citizens. Based on what I do understand, that sounds like wild paranoia to me.

Other thoughts?

;

Three myths about the detention bill - Read this...

[ In Reply To ..]

Condemnation of President Obama is intense, and growing, as a result of his announced intent to sign into law the indefinite detention bill embedded in the 2012 National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA). These denunciations come not only from the nation’s leading civil liberties and human rights groups, but also from the pro-Obama New York Times Editorial Page, which today has a scathing Editorial describing Obama’s stance as “a complete political cave-in, one that reinforces the impression of a fumbling presidency” and lamenting that “the bill has so many other objectionable aspects that we can’t go into them all,” as well as from vocal Obama supporters such as Andrew Sullivan, who wrote yesterday that this episode is “another sign that his campaign pledge to be vigilant about civil liberties in the war on terror was a lie.” In damage control mode, White-House-allied groups are now trying to ride to the rescue with attacks on the ACLU and dismissive belittling of the bill’s dangers.


For that reason, it is very worthwhile to briefly examine — and debunk — the three principal myths being spread by supporters of this bill, and to do so very simply: by citing the relevant provisions of the bill, as well as the relevant passages of the original 2001 Authorization to Use Military Force (AUMF), so that everyone can judge for themselves what this bill actually includes (this is all above and beyond the evidence I assembled in writing about this bill yesterday):


Myth # 1: This bill does not codify indefinite detention


Section 1021 of the NDAA governs, as its title says, “Authority of the Armed Forces to Detain Covered Persons Pursuant to the AUMF.”  The first provision — section (a) — explicitly “affirms that the authority of the President” under the AUMF  ”includes the authority for the Armed Forces of the United States to detain covered persons.” The next section, (b), defines “covered persons” — i.e., those who can be detained by the U.S. military — as “a person who was a part of or substantially supported al-Qaeda, the Taliban, or associated forces that are engaged in hostilities against the United States or its coalition partners.” With regard to those “covered individuals,” this is the power vested in the President by the next section, (c):



It simply cannot be any clearer within the confines of the English language that this bill codifies the power of indefinite detention. It expressly empowers the President — with regard to anyone accused of the acts in section (b) – to detain them “without trial until the end of the hostilities.” That is the very definition of “indefinite detention,” and the statute could not be clearer that it vests this power. Anyone claiming this bill does not codify indefinite detention should be forced to explain how they can claim that in light of this crystal clear provision.


It is true, as I’ve pointed out repeatedly, that both the Bush and Obama administrations have argued that the 2001 AUMF implicitly (i.e., silently) already vests the power of indefinite detention in the President, and post-9/11 deferential courts have largely accepted that view (just as the Bush DOJ argued that the 2001 AUMF implicitly (i.e., silently) allowed them to eavesdrop on Americans without the warrants required by law). That’s why the NDAA can state that nothing is intended to expand the 2001 AUMF while achieving exactly that: because the Executive and judicial interpretation being given to the 20o1 AUMF is already so much broader than its language provides.


But this is the first time this power of indefinite detention is being expressly codified by statute (there’s not a word about detention powers in the 2001 AUMF). Indeed, as the ACLU and HRW both pointed out, it’s the first time such powers are being codified in a statute since the McCarthy era Internal Security Act of 1950, about which I wrote yesterday.


Myth #2: The bill does not expand the scope of the War on Terror as defined by the 2001 AUMF


This myth is very easily dispensed with. The scope of the war as defined by the original 2001 AUMF was, at least relative to this new bill, quite specific and narrow. Here’s the full extent of the power the original AUMF granted:



(a) IN GENERAL- That the President is authorized to use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons, in order to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States by such nations, organizations or persons.



Under the clear language of the 2001 AUMF, the President’s authorization to use force was explicitly confined to those who (a) helped perpetrate the 9/11 attack or (b) harbored the perpetrators. That’s it. Now look at how much broader the NDAA is with regard to who can be targeted:



Section (1) is basically a re-statement of the 2001 AUMF. But Section (2) is a brand new addition. It allows the President to target not only those who helped perpetrate the 9/11 attacks or those who harbored them, but also: anyone who “substantially supports” such groups and/or “associated forces.” Those are extremely vague terms subject to wild and obvious levels of abuse (see what Law Professor Jonathan Hafetz told me in an interview last week about the dangers of those terms). This is a substantial statutory escalation of the War on Terror and the President’s powers under it, and it occurs more than ten years after 9/11, with Osama bin Laden dead, and with the U.S. Government boasting that virtually all Al Qaeda leaders have been eliminated and the original organization (the one accused of perpetrating 9/11 attack) rendered inoperable.


It is true that both the Bush and Obama administration have long been arguing that the original AUMF should be broadly “interpreted” so as to authorize force against this much larger scope of individuals, despite the complete absence of such language in that original AUMF. That’s how the Obama administration justifies its ongoing bombing of Yemen and Somalia and its killing of people based on the claim that they support groups that did not even exist at the time of 9/11 – i.e., they argue: these new post-9/11 groups we’re targeting are associated forcesof Al Qaeda and the individuals we’re killing “substantially support” those groups. But this is the first time that Congress has codified that wildly expanded definition of the Enemy in the War on Terror. And all anyone has to do to see that is compare the old AUMF with the new one in the NDAA.


Myth #3: U.S. citizens are exempted from this new bill


This is simply false, at least when expressed so definitively and without caveats. The bill is purposely muddled on this issue which is what is enabling the falsehood.


There are two separate indefinite military detention provisions in this bill. The first, Section 1021, authorizes indefinite detention for the broad definition of “covered persons” discussed above in the prior point. And that section does provide that “Nothing in this section shall be construed to affect existing law or authorities relating to the detention of United States citizens, lawful resident aliens of the United States, or any other persons who are captured or arrested in the United States.” So that section contains a disclaimer regarding an intention to expand detention powers for U.S. citizens, but does so only for the powers vested by that specific section. More important, the exclusion appears to extend only to U.S. citizens “captured or arrested in the United States” — meaning that the powers of indefinite detention vested by that section apply to U.S. citizens captured anywhere abroad (there is some grammatical vagueness on this point, but at the very least, there is a viable argument that the detention power in this section applies to U.S. citizens captured abroad).


But the next section, Section 1022, is a different story. That section specifically deals with a smaller category of people than the broad group covered by 1021: namely, anyone whom the President determines is “a member of, or part of, al-Qaeda or an associated force” and “participated in the course of planning or carrying out an attack or attempted attack against the United States or its coalition partners.” For those persons, section (a) not only authorizes, but requires (absent a Presidential waiver), that they be held “in military custody pending disposition under the law of war.” The section title is “Military Custody for Foreign Al Qaeda Terrorists,” but the definition of who it covers does not exclude U.S. citizens or include any requirement of foreignness.


That section — 1022 — does not contain the broad disclaimer regarding U.S. citizens that 1021 contains. Instead, it simply says that the requirement of military detention does not apply to U.S. citizens, but it does not exclude U.S. citizens from the authority, the option, to hold them in military custody. Here is what it says:



The only provision from which U.S. citizens are exempted here is the “requirement” of military detention. For foreign nationals accused of being members of Al Qaeda, military detention is mandatory; for U.S. citizens, it is optionalThis section does not exempt U.S citizens from the presidential power of military detention: only from the requirement of military detention.


The most important point on this issue is the same as underscored in the prior two points: the “compromise” reached by  Congress includes language preserving the status quo. That’s because the Obama administration already argues that the original 2001 AUMF authorizes them to act against U.S. citizens (obviously, if they believe they have the power to target U.S. citizens for assassination, then they believe they have the power to detain U.S. citizens as enemy combatants). The proof that this bill does not expressly exempt U.S. citizens or those captured on U.S. soil is that amendments offered by Sen. Feinstein providing expressly for those exemptions were rejected. The “compromise” was to preserve the status quo by including the provision that the bill is not intended to alter it with regard to American citizens, but that’s because proponents of broad detention powers are confident that the status quo already permits such detention.


In sum, there is simply no question that this bill codifies indefinite detention without trial (Myth 1). There is no question that it significantly expands the statutory definitions of the War on Terror and those who can be targeted as part of it (Myth 2). The issue of application to U.S. citizens (Myth 3) is purposely muddled — that’s why Feinstein’s amendments were rejected — and there is consequently no doubt this bill can and will be used by the U.S. Government (under this President or a future one)  to bolster its argument that it is empowered to indefinitely detain even U.S. citizens without a trial (NYT Editorial: “The legislation could also give future presidents the authority to throw American citizens into prison for life without charges or a trial”; Sen. Bernie Sanders: “This bill also contains misguided provisions that in the name of fighting terrorism essentially authorize the indefinite imprisonment of American citizens without charges”).


Even if it were true that this bill changes nothing when compared to how the Executive Branch has been interpreting and exercising the powers of the old AUMF, there are serious dangers and harms from having Congress — with bipartisan sponsors, a Democratic Senate and a GOP House — put its institutional, statutory weight behind powers previously claimed and seized by the President alone. That codification entrenches these powers. As the New York Times Editorial today put it: the bill contains “terrible new measures that will make indefinite detention and military trials a permanent part of American law.


What’s particularly ironic (and revealing) about all of this is that former White House counsel Greg Craig assured The New Yorker‘s Jane Mayer back in February, 2009 that it’s “hard to imagine Barack Obama as the first President of the United States to introduce a preventive-detention law.Four months later, President Obama proposed exactly such a law — one that The New York Times described as “a departure from the way this country sees itself, as a place where people in the grip of the government either face criminal charges or walk free” — and now he will sign such a scheme into law.

I guess this explains why FEMA is hiring - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
guard to watch over their internment camps located all over the country.

I guess Janis Joplin was right when she sang that freedom means nothing left to lose. I think more and more law-abiding citizens may feel the same way. Let's take rights away from citizens who don't agree with the government's actions and throw them into internment camps.

Martial law will be here before we know it. :-(

You are SPOT ON. - SlipperySlope

[ In Reply To ..]
You hit a bull's eye with that post.

SOME of us have been screaming about these new "laws" ever since the so-called "Patriot Act" was passed. No Average Joes I talked with had read even part of that bill, and when I explained to them what was contained within it of course they went into typical attack mode, hurling "communist" and other ad hominems at me. Now Judge Napolitano of Faux News talks about the horrible things in the PA (the exact same sections that I expoed) to Tea Party groups, etc., and those same people applaud him. I guess that makes him the leader of the Communist Party.

Predictably, Obama extended the Patriot Act.

We have been on this slippery slope for YEARS. Some of us KNOW HISTORY and RECOGNIZED THE DANGERS, only to be called "paranoid." Where were you people when the "Patriot" Act was enacted?

At any rate, thank you for speaking out now.

Baby steps - Zville MT
[ In Reply To ..]
Little by little, this country is being torn down by the very ones who say they want to save it. I knew at the time the Patriot Act was a bad idea and that it would not only be extended but expanded. Read history - this will not stop until the outrage of the entire country becomes clear. Speak up now and speak loudly!

My thought is that we will see civil war in this - country within our lifetimes. nm

[ In Reply To ..]

It might happen sooner than you think. - nm

[ In Reply To ..]

Similar Messages:


Chris Hedges Sues Obama Admin. Over Indefinite Detention Of AmericansJan 17, 2012
My liberal hero has done it again!  (Hedges is one of the handful of libs who actually THINK rather than just FEEL.)  This man is intelligent, erudite, a deep thinker, and MORAL -- one of the few remaining classical liberals.  Years ago, libs used to say, "I don't agree with you, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."  Nowadays libs are FASCISTS, stating, "Agree with me or else!" Pulitzer-Prize-winning author Chris Hedges has filed suit against the Obama ...

Dr. Walid Phares, A National Defense University ProfessorNov 16, 2015
on issues in the Middle East, said on Fox News when asked why can't we take out ISIS... "Walid, why can't we take them out?" "Actually we can and actually we should, but the president has a different strategy. He's getting a lot of pressure by the Iranians. Otherwise he should have long time ago allied himself, partnered with Arab moderate forces such as Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt, UAE, they are fighting terrorism very much and very well in Yemen, in Sinai, in Libya, else ...

Congress Passes Defense Bill That Bans MovingNov 10, 2015
Now we can expect more hissy fits from Ole Sissy Pants. ...

Bill Maher Blasts Tea Baggers For Ignoring Defense Spending (VIDEO) Apr 24, 2010
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/24/bill-maher-to-tea-baggers_n_550430.html ...

Bill Signed For National MammalMay 10, 2016
We have people who can't pay their bills, people having to deal with being sick because they can't afford insurance, people going hungry, people struggling to find a job..... I could go on and on, but I saw this morning that Obama signed a bill to make the bison our national mammal. I couldn't care less if the national mammal was a blue rat with a pink bow on it's tail. I'm one of those struggling to pay bills, going hungry some days so my son can eat, and unable to affo ...

KO Lovers. He's Ba-a-a-c-k. Wow! Indefinite Sure Is Short.Nov 08, 2010
Guess this is the new definition of 'indefinite'. So, if someone is indefinitely suspended from their job, can we fight to get it back after less than a week?   MSNBC brings back suspended anchor Keith Olbermann Suspended liberal anchor Keith Olbermann will return to the MSNBC lineup on Tuesday, four days after the cable news network suspended him for giving money to three Democratic politicians. MSNBC said in a statement on Sunday that Olbermann had been punished enough off ...

Oh, Those Good Ole Days Of High School Detention. Spent A Lot Of Time There.Feb 03, 2011
The post below made me think bad, and every time I do I laugh.  Now, I was not a bad kid but I spent more than my fair share of time in detention for the least little thing.  I would go to sleep in class and get detention.  Then I would go sleep in detention.  Our high school in Atlanta was grades 8-12, very large.  So you may have had 50 or more kids in detention.  Usually, the teacher monitoring detention did not even know you.  Sometimes I would have someon ...

Court Rules Obama’s Detention Powers Not Limited By Laws Of WarJan 06, 2010
By Stephen C. WebsterWednesday, January 6th, 2010 -- 12:35 am The Washington, D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals issued a ruling Tuesday that upholds the Bush administration's broad claims of executive power to detain non-citizens. The case, Al-Bihani v. Obama, "was the first by the Circuit Court to directly apply the Supreme Court’s 2008 decision in Boumediene v. Bush creating a constitutional right for Guantanamo Bay detainees to challenge their captivity," according to the SCOTUS blog ...

JEB For 2012Feb 08, 2011
National Review editor urges Jeb to run By: CNN Ticker Producer Alexander Mooney (CNN) – Fresh off putting Jeb Bush on the cover of his magazine this week, National Review Editor Rich Lowry is now actively urging the younger brother of the former president to seek the White House himself - now. Writing on the National Review’s website Monday, Lowry says it’s now or never for the popular former Florida governor who has already explicitly ruled at a 2012 bid, saying wait ...

Defense Of Marriage ActFeb 23, 2011
I'm just curious how the president and the attorney general can decide which laws to defend and which ones not to.  Whether you agree with this law or not, it is a law and to be repealed, it has to go through certain channels, not just being ignored by the WH. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110223/ap_on_re_us/us_gay_marriage ...

In Defense Of ProfilingJan 04, 2010
January 01, 2010 In Defense of ProfilingBy Chuck HustmyreLet's get one thing straight right up front: Profiling is an effective tool.We do it with serial killers all the time. Why not terrorists? Because it's discrimination. Therefore, it must be evil. Wrong.According to my World Book dictionary, discriminate means "to see or note a difference; (to) make a distinction."When I choose steak over fish, I discriminate. When I decide to see one movie and not another, I discriminate. We make ...

Ron Paul 2012Sep 14, 2011
http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/396584/september-13-2011/ron-paul-2012 ...

Palin Considering 2012 BidFeb 07, 2010
Hope this is true-it would sure make things easier for the dems!    Palin says 'absurd' not to ponder presidential bid Former vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin addresses attendees at the Na... WASHINGTON — Sarah Palin says it would be "absurd" for her not to consider running for president in 2012. The former Alaska governor and the Republican vice presidential nominee in 2008 says she will run for president if she believes it's rig ...

We Still Need A Strong Military Defense Feb 01, 2013
John Bolton: The war on terror is not over. Al Qaeda has not been defeated. The struggle is spreading and if we don’t face up to that reality we’re going to have another attack on an American embassy that will be even more successful from the terrorist point of view. … We have no strategy! That’s why I’ve been so concerned that the whole sweep from the Atlantic coast of West Africa, through the Middle East, all the way over to Pakistan is deteriorating from the perspective ...

Holder And Obama's Defense - (sm)May 24, 2013
Link ...

Gun For Self Defense--lifetime Of PsychologicalSep 04, 2015
How do you think this 11-year-old will deal with this? The dead are not the only victims. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/09/04/missouri-11-year-old-fatally-shoots-16-year-old-intruder/ ...

I Will Be So Glad When The 2012 Election Is OverFeb 29, 2012
I'm to the point where we will either have a republican in the White House who doesn't have a clue or the cajones to do right by the American people....or we will have another 4 years of President Obama who has done very little but spend spend spend...which I grant that Bush started but Obama has taken it to a whole new level.  I'm so discouraged by our choices and I just want it over with.  I personally feel like nothing great will happen to our country either way the e ...

Petraeus For President In 2012?Nov 02, 2009
x ...

Here's What The GOP House Calendar For 2012 Looks Like.Oct 27, 2011
I am simply speechless.  http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20126778-503544/house-plans-only-109-workdays-in-2012/ ...

Now That Obama Has Announced 2012 Apr 04, 2011
should have to produce their long-form birth certificate to run and lay this thing to rest once and for all.  Trump did and he is not even running yet...lol. Seriously....this cycle and every cycle after it no matter WHO is running...birth certificate when you file.  Period. Obama is going to look bad no matter which way he goes on it now....if he produces it, trying to explain why he stonewalled and trying to make the explanation sound adult; or stonewall again. Either way... Go a ...

Palin-Cain 2012Oct 05, 2011
In the near-absence of any sign that Sarah Palin is actively considering a GOP primary campaign, the good folks at Conservatives4Palin come up with this alternative scenario to keep hope alive: [T]he possibility of an independent run does make sense and to delay the anouncement of her candidacy may simply be part of a bigger plan. Sarah Palin promised this to be a very unconventional election cycle. Creating a third party fits that narrative. ... Political parties always fear a rogue thi ...

Romney 2012 Nose Pin. Aug 29, 2012
...

The 2012 Vote: Why It Went So Well, In Spite Of Everything.Nov 09, 2012
took lessons from the past, sued early and often, and on Wednesday morning we knew who our new elected officials were.  From Reuters:  "Voting-rights advocates, along with the U.S. Department of Justice and some political party officials, tackled potential electoral problems early this election year. Judges blocked stringent voter ID laws, lifted registration restrictions and rejected limits on early voting. As a result, Election Day 2012 escaped the legal dramas of the past. While ...

2012 In Top 10 Warmest On RecordJan 15, 2013
Also, did you guys see the pictures of Beijing?   Whether or not you believe global warming is man-made, this cannot go on.   "Researchers from Nasa said it was the ninth warmest year while experts from another American agency said it was the tenth. Both teams said that temperatures would have been higher if it hadn't been for the the La Nina weather pattern that brought cooling to some regions. The scientists were equally certain that carbon dioxide was the principal drive ...

Sarah Palin's Defense Of RushMar 09, 2012
Bill Maher is a horrible man.  Follow that logic.  cant wait until Maher responds.   ...

Nice Speech In Defense Of Tea Party. SmApr 19, 2011
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/rand-paul-defends-tea-party-on-sen-floor-i-dare-you-to-come-to-a-rally/ ...

Obama: Defense Veto Unless Vets Pay More....Jul 25, 2013
Obama: Defense Veto Unless Vets Pay More For Health Care    Posted 07/24/2013 06:52 PM ET   Email  Print  License  Comment   in Share Politics: A veto of the defense authorization bill is threatened unless the president gets his way. He wants health care insurance premiums and co-pays increased for troops and scheduled military pay raises to be reduced. Being used as photo-ops for presidential speeches a ...

Mexico's Defense Of Illegal Immigrants Nov 17, 2016
They are planning to fake some documents to make them legal in the U.S. More will be coming out about this soon, but the below has been happening for a few years.Mexico's Defense of Illegal Immigrants Mexico is waging an aggressive diplomatic battle to protect its interests and the interests of its citizens who are working and residing illegally in the United States. While it is appropriate for a foreign government to protect the rights of its citizens abroad, it is not appropriate to enco ...

PLEASE PRAY FOR DEEPENING OF THE RELATIONSHIP IN 2012Feb 06, 2012
Please, pray: That Our Lord God strength the relationship between Dejan M. and me! That any barriers between us will be removed permanently and that we may have a lifetime of happpiness and love together! THAT GOD HELP DEJAN M. TO MAKE DISTANCE FROM PEOPLE WHO ENJOY IN DESTROYING RELATIONSHIPS (THAT GOES SPECIALLY FOR DAVID, SUZANA, ANJA) Thank you for all your prayers May God bless you always! Katarina from Belgrade in Serbia ...

Proposed 2012 Budget....from SpeechMar 25, 2011
Sen. Tom Coburn is an MD (general practitioner) and Senator from Oklahoma . and recognized as 'the conscience' of the US Senate. He is well respected on both 'sides of the aisle' & probably one of the few senators to actually read these 'bail-out' bills. (Google him for his background.) This takes a couple of minutes. It's from his speech in the Senate regarding the 2012 budget... "We are going in exactly the wrong direction. We ought to be standing ...