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How important is Romney's choice to you?

Posted: Jul 29, 2012

Are you withholding support for Mitt Romney until you see who he chooses as the person who will be "a heartbeat away..."?

I'm reading a book right now about the assassination of James Garfield. His VP was Chester Arthur. Arthur was pushed into the VP spot by a certain powerful NY politician and a pretty all-round awful guy named Roscoe Conkling. The book says that during the course of the campaign, there was some discussion about the fact that Arthur would be president if something happened to Garfield, but the idea of anything happening to Garfield "seemed so remote as to be hardly worth considering." Garfield was in the prime of his life (late 40s), the picture of robust good health, and would be president in a time of peace. When it looked as if Garfield might die after being shot, it says that, among Dems and Republicans alike, the very idea that Arthur could actually become president "caused hearts to sink and shoulders to shudder." Too late at that point!

Arthur himself didn't really want anything to do with being president and only went along with being the VP choice because he was doing Conkling's bidding--that's how much power and influence Conkling had in the party.

We always think that our current days are "the worst of times," but some things were as bad (or worse) politically in past times, too.

;

Nope - anon

[ In Reply To ..]
doesn't matter to me. I won't vote for him no matter what.

I would still go with Obama...sm - JTBB

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Let's say Romney actually picked a VP that I liked more than Biden. I would still vote for Obama because the likelihood of a VP having to take over would be slim. Also, I don't think it likely that a VP in this situation would do a 180 or change policy radically as VPs are hand picked.

I am confident Romney will make a good pick for VP...nm - Liberty

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Thank you.

Wish I had your confidence, Liberty! - (see message)

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But I was sure McCain would make a good pick for VP, too. If one likes Sarah Palin, I guess one would have been satisfied with that pick; however, for people like my brother and his wife, who are pretty conservative Republicans and are also VERY intelligent, they absolutely couldn't even hold their noses and vote for McCain because of his VP pick.

To: Wish I had... - Liberty

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McCain wasn't even my first pick for the GOP nomination, but the alternative {Obama} with his agenda was much worse. So, I am an ultra Conservative GOP gal all the way. The Republican President and VP candidates will always be more conservative than the Democrats!

Thank you.

Is "conservative" your only criteria? - (see message)

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If a candidate is "conservative," is that the only thing you look at in deciding who to support?

Setting aside McCain or Romney as the candidate, if the Republican ticket included two conservatives but you did not think one or the other was intelligent, experienced, or had the character you considered important, would you still vote for them anyway, based strictly on the fact that they'd still be more conservative than Obama (or whoever the Democratic candidate was)?

I admit, I usually focus most on who is on the top of the ticket and hope that the VP won't ever have to step in as president, but you just never, ever know. An absolutely horrible pick for VP would dissuade me, however, from voting for my party's presidential candidate.

And although I most often vote for the Democrat, I never, ever vote strictly for whoever is the LEAST conservative candidate. I always try to look at the whole picture and sometimes go on gut instinct. Even though I'm a Democrat, I voted for Reagan and did NOT vote for Clinton the first time around.

I guess that should actually be "criterion," - not "criteria." Silly me! (N/M)

[ In Reply To ..]
:-D

To: Is conservative your only... - Liberty

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I am a pro-life conservative, so I look at that when deciding on who I would want to be the GOP nominee.

You asked the question, "If the Republican ticket included...?" The GOP candidates in the first go-around against Obama {to name just a few things here} had more experience and were 99.999% closer to my views than Obama, so I never even considered voting for Obama. On this go-around, the same holds true. So, I too look at the entire picture, but, once again, I know of no Democrat who is even close to being pro-life.

Does this answer your question to me? I hope so, but please respond if I didn't answer your question.

Thank you.

Yes, I think that does answer my "?" - (see message)

[ In Reply To ..]
Thank you for that explanation. Unless I misunderstand you, it sounds like you choose first and foremost (maybe?) based on which candidate is (or at least SAYS he or she is) pro-life.

There is an extremely strong pro-ilfe group (groups, actually) in my area. They always hand out what are called "voters guides" to people outside churches after services. They stand just off church property so that it's legal. If that's a voters most important issue, I can understand wanting to vote only for the candidate who is pro-life. What I don't understand is that they recommend candidates for every single position, no matter whether or not that position has even a single INKLING of ability to influence or change the abortion laws in this country. Even if pro-life was my only issue, I don't think I should care if every local school board member or city council member is pro-life or not, as long as they did a good job for us otherwise.

Years ago, we actually DID have a pro-life Democrat running for governor (apparently, they DO exist!). I felt so good voting for this person because I could do so and stay true to my pro-life Catholic teachings. This candidate won but within a few years in office made a big mess of our state in other ways....worst governor we've had in my 36 years here. That woke me up to the danger (at least in my mind) of voting for that single issue. Never again....especially not for president.

To: Yes, I think that does... - Liberty

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Oh! My goodness! You had a Democrat governor that was the worst governor you had in 36 years! I rest my case... Just kidding...LOL!

I guess there is a possibility of a bad apple in every situation. You understood me correctly...first and foremost, I, personally, have to stick with my core belief in being pro-life. I have not been in the situation you have been in where I have come out of church to find a flier of any kind on my vehicle, so I don't know what that would be like. I usually do my own research on a candidate. In our area, I don't recall anyone saying anything about school board candidates or candidates for city council, etc. running as a pro-life candidate. But, again, I would definitely take that into consideration if someone was pro-life because in most cases, it would indicate to me they are conservative.

Thank you.

LOL--touche! :-D - (see message)

[ In Reply To ..]
Hee hee....I know you were just kidding about resting your case about our bad Democratic governor. :-)

Truth is, we've had good and bad of both Dems and Republicans....had a good Repub, a mediocre Dem, a horrible Dem, a mediocre Repub, and a TERRIBLE Repub, and then had a Dem who was the absolute best we've had in my 36 years here. Beyond these, I either don't remember or didn't pay enough attention because I was too young and naive or too busy raising my kids. :-)

Just to be clear--the "voters' guides" that they pass out are handed to people through their car windows as they drive out of the church parking lot. I've never found one on my car windshield. I don't think they're allowed to do it at all on church property.

And also to be clear--the candidates for positions like city council and school board often don't even say which party they belong to, let alone if they're pro-life or not; but the pro-life groups who put out the voters' guides send their own questionnaires to the candidates and then tell voters which candidate to vote for, based on who they've determined are pro-life. It's not usually an "official" position that the candidate has taken publicly because, after all, they have no bearing on abortion laws or the ability to change them.

I dunno....I don't like it. This is a very pro-life state and community, but we've gotten some VERY extreme and incompetent people in office this way.

One more thing, BTW... - (see message)

[ In Reply To ..]
....our Democratic governor left our state with the biggest budget surplus we've seen in a long, long time. We were in fantastic financial shape after that governor's two terms in office, and this after the previous Republican governor left our finances in big trouble.

Question: Why do a lot of Republicans persist in using "Democrat" as an adjective, as in "Democrat governor"?? I think that sounds bad, but I notice it's mostly the opposition who use it....any ideas as to why? Is it considered insulting by some folks? "Democrat" is a noun, not an adjective....right? Or am I wrong about that?

To: One more thing... - Liberty

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In regards to your question,"Why do a lot of Republicans persist...?" I don't know about other people, but for myself, I say Democrat when I am referring to the party - Democrat or Republican - to distinguish the difference...Democrat President, Republican President, and so on. I use the small "d" when I refer to a democratic government. That is just what I do...don't know if it is correct or not.

Thank you.

Single issue voters...sm - JTBB

[ In Reply To ..]
If your only issue is pro-life when voting, then what gives you the right to complain about the economy (or anything else for that matter)? I'm not trying to be mean, but seriously, if you had the choice between a pro-life candidate vs a pro choice candidate (regardless of stances on any other issues), you would choose the pro-life? To me that is no better than those who don't vote at all, and I tell them, if you don't vote, don't complain.

In my opinion (on the complete opposite end of the spectrum...lol) Obama hasn't done nearly enough when it comes to gay marriage, don't ask don't tell and pro choice. Is that a factor in my decision? Absolutely. However, it's not the only factor by any means. If it were that would mean I would be ignoring foreign policy, the economy, taxes, healthcare, and the list goes on.

I hate the term "pro-life". Usually it is used under - sm

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very narrow circumstances and not all emcompassing of all life at any stage.

I agree with this. - (see message)

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In my opinion, people who are anti-choice or anti-abortion identify themselves as "pro-life" because, well, who can argue with that....right?

I agree that too often, in my experience, pro-lifers are ONLY concerned with life before birth and don't show the same concern for protection of life among underprivileged children, the poor or otherwise disadvantaged, the uninsured, the innocent-until-proven-guilty, and other people in all spectrums of society. I'm not saying any of this applies to Liberty, but I've seen it all too often. It's hypocritical, IMO.

On re-reading my post.... - (see message)

[ In Reply To ..]
.....I don't think I should've said pro-lifers are "ONLY" concerned (etc., etc.). That's an unfair generalization. I might have better stated it that a lot of them who I see are "MORE" concerned with life before birth.

To: I agree with this... - Liberty

[ In Reply To ..]
You say that in your experience, pro-lifers are ONLY concerned with life after birth, etc. Thank you for saying that you weren't saying any of this applies to me. I, in all honesty, have heard that statement about pro-life people for over 10 years at least. It is just not true.

I belong to a Republican group for women, and every month we take monetary donations for children who are disadvantaged. Every Christmas and at other times of the year, gifts donated by members of our group are taken to needy children. Sometimes this involves driving many miles, depending on what group of kids will be receiving the gifts. This group of Republican women represents a very small area of our state. There are many, many organizations like this in every single state.

Personally, I donate money and other items to the organizations in our city that need donations for children and adults who are disadvantaged. And I know I am not the only Republican doing that.

For lack of time here, I can't list all of the ways Republicans help disadvantaged kids and adults.

Thank you.

Liberty: You may have missed my post just above yours. - (see message)

[ In Reply To ..]
I realized that "ONLY" was an unfair generalization and said I should have said "MORE" concerned. Since you yourself agreed that the pro-life issue IS your first and foremost issue, I think it stands to reason that pre-born life is "more" of a concern for you....perhaps not your only concern, but more so than others.

Good for you and your Republican group of women. I'm sure it feels good that you're helping needy children and adults. I imagine you would agree that there are groups of every stripe, including Democrats, who pitch in and help with collections like this; but my feeling is that those of us who contribute to a collection of gifts, household items, or money are merely a drop in the ocean of what is truly needed.

Too many who fight tooth and nail to prevent abortions are nowhere to be found when so many children are neglected or worse when born to mothers who do not want them. Some people criticize "welfare moms," food stamp or Medicaid recipients and cry that those people should pull themselves up by their bootstraps and make their own way to provide for their kids. In a perfect world, yeah, perhaps they should; but the reality is that too many either can't or won't, and what about the support of those precious children then? No one wants to pay more in taxes, but the private groups are just way inadequate to provide for the needs of so many who are suffering. Would be great if they could, but I just don't see how they can do it all.

Missed post, I guess... - Liberty

[ In Reply To ..]
The only reason I mentioned the Republican women group and doing what we do is because you were the one that said the Republicans you knew didn't help out with kids after they were born. There are many, many government programs out there to help women in need and children in need. You have proved the point that governmnet programs and pouring more and more money into these programs isn't the answer to the problem because these women and children still have the problems they have.

Thank you.

So what should happen for all those... - (see message)

[ In Reply To ..]
.....poor, innocent babies who are born into a life where they aren't wanted or able to be provided for--even their most basic needs? Congratulations--your group proves that there ARE Republicans who "help out" after the kids are born, but can you possibly provide for ALL their needs?

Yes--we're in a crisis when even with the "many, many government programs" and all the kind, Republican women's groups providing this outpouring of support, there are still so many kids who are neglected, abused, going hungry, missing out on medical care when they need it, etc.

These are not conditions we should be proud of in this great, compassionate, honorable country of ours. Without ANY governmental assistance at all, I just don't buy it that all of the generous, religious, or good-hearted Americans will be able to provide enough jobs and help to all of those in need. That's why I don't want to see it all left up to private organizations.

Getting back to the issue of voting only for a pro-life candidate: Let me just say that I'm pro-life, too. Maybe not the same definition that you use; but I DO love and value life and wish for everyone to have a happy, healthy, full, meaningful, and productive life. Personally, I don't believe I could ever bring myself to have an abortion. I would give the baby up for adoption if I was in no way able to love and support another child; however, I do not think that my own personal choice should be forced on others.

If a pro-lifer believes that all innocent souls go to heaven, it just seems to me that that would be a better place for a baby than to be born into a life of destitution, crime, a junkie mom, starvation, abuse (physical, emotional, and/or sexual), no love, mental illness, or any of the other reasons that some women might turn to abortion. (I'm not asking for an argument about that or trying to change anyone else's mind--just stating the way I process my thoughts about this.) Until I can be sure that none of these terrible situations would exist for every single unplanned or unwanted child, I can't say that I think my personal "no-abortion" choice should be everyone else's. I may not like it, but I realize that we don't live in a perfect world. And, by the way--we never HAVE lived in a perfect world....ever. Not even back in the "good old days" to which so many people want to go back. I think Adam and Eve were the last ones who had that privilege!

Thank you.

To: So what should happen... - Liberty

[ In Reply To ..]
Thank you for your opinion. I think that abstinence for unmarried teens and adults would be a good place to start. Don't have sex until you are married PERIOD. I think parents have to teach good morals to their children. I don't think all of the sex and crime on TV, videos,etc. is good for anyone. I think parents need to tell their children drugs are bad for you. We may not have had a perfect world when I was growing up many years ago, but it wasn't like it is now.

So, what do you think should be done?

Thank you.

To: Single issue voters...JTBB - Liberty

[ In Reply To ..]
I think you are comparing apples and oranges - you say, "Your only issue being pro-life when voting,then what gives you the right to complain about the economy..." and "To me that is no better than those who don't vote at all, and I tell them, if you don't vote, don't complain.

I think it is quite different. I am standing for my principles and voting for my principles. Pro-life is the basis for my vote...everything else is negotiable...the life of a baby in the womb is not negotiable in my book.

Thank you

Speaking of negotiable....sm - JTBB

[ In Reply To ..]
Number of US military deaths in Iraq to chase nonexistent WMDs...4,409 and counting.

Number of US military deaths in Afghanistan to kill one operation...1,935 and counting.

These numbers don't include other related locations much less civilian Iraqis or Afghans.

I guess these lives are negotiable in your view. Pro-life my ___.

In this case, it's critical. - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
To me, the most terrible person/people is/are those who support the Ryan budget. Romney not only agrees with this but he also vetted Paul Ryan for his VP candidate.

I know I will lose my SSDI and Medicare if Romney wins (after working for 40 years and paying into the system), particularly if he chooses Ryan or someone like Ryan for VP.

If that happens, then I, without a doubt, will wind up on the street. I know there are a significant number of posters on this board who simply don't agree with SSDI and would love to take it away from poor people and transfer it to the already ultra-rich so they can continue with all the "jobs" they have allegedly "created" while "recording" the largest profits in a long time.

So, yes, a vice presidential candidate, to me, is very important for the reasons I outlined. I know that voting Republican is NOT in my best interests, and I refuse to vote against my best interests.

To: "In this case, it's critical." - Liberty

[ In Reply To ..]
Why would you be losing your SSDI and Medicare if Romney or someone who supports the Ryan budget would be elected?

Thank you.

Because people like Erik Cantor and Paul Ryan - sm

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etc., are in favor of the Ryan budget. In that budget, the dissolution of Social Securty and Medicare are mentioned.

See http://oneutah.org/republicans/ryan-2-0-he-cant-be-serious/

P.S. I just want to thank you for posting as - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
you do, where you ask questions and allow a pleasant discourse to develop and hopefully helps the debate continue in a friendly manner.

Thank you. :-)

To: P.S. I just want... - Liberty

[ In Reply To ..]
Thank you for your kind words! I just want to add that I have heard Paul Ryan talk about the Medicare aspect, which I think you are referring to, of his budget plan, and I {think?} I remember him saying that if you will be 65 before 2022, you can have the choice of remaining in traditional Medicare or participating in the new program. I am in this group that will turn 65 before 2022.

I understood him to say that for those that want to participate in the new Medicare program, a person would receive financial assistance to offset the cost of health insurance. You would be able to make your own choices of a health plan instead of being locked into a federally defined package.

And as far as your SS situation, I must admit, I don't recall him saying anything about that, but I may have missed it. I will try to find out about that. I just would like to calm your fears, if possible.

It actually sounds like you are talking about sm - VTMT

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Obamacare which provides for a Health Care Exchange where you can tailor your plan to your specific needs. Subsidies will also be available according to your ability to pay, hence, Affordable Care Act. Only time will tell how it will all work as it is gradually instituted over several years.

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