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Here's the 2012 budget complete with graphs

Posted: Apr 5, 2011

If you want the video, it's here:

http://www.c-span.org/Events/Republicans-Unveil-Long-Term-Budget-Plan/10737420686-2/

If you want to read it, it's the link below.

;

I suggest you search the word "medicare" in the document - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
You will find they want to gut Medicare.
How long have you been paying in?

See Paul Krugman's synopsis:

The 2022 Medicare Crisis
Matt Yglesias has a very good point: the supposed transition strategy under the Ryan plan, in which everyone currently over 55 gets Medicare as we know it, while everyone younger than that gets vouchers that wonâ��t be enough to buy adequate insurance, sets up an unstable political dynamic. In fact, we can be sure that whatever happens, it wonâ��t be what the plan says will happen.

If the Medicare Advantage precedent holds, what will happen in 2022 or a bit later is that Congress will react to the fury of younger seniors â�� who see that those born just a few years earlier have vastly better benefits than they do â�� by increasing the vouchers. And the end result, in that case, would be that the Ryan plan substantially increases Medicare costs; remember that the payment increases that were part of the 2003 Medicare bill, introduced to rescue failing Medicare Advantage programs, have resulted in large overpayments, adding hundreds of billions to the programâ��s costs.

Alternatively, if the benefit cuts stick, youâ��ll have a lot of furious people realizing that they are paying high taxes to support lavish medical care for older Baby Boomers, while being themselves condemned to pleading with insurance companies to provide coverage in return for an inadequate voucher. Plus, private insurance companies, making lots of money off the voucher business, will cast their eyes on those potential profit centers, aka seniors, still getting government insurance. So traditional Medicare will be in the firing line â�� and all those assurances about how nobody currently over 55 will be hurt will turn out to be empty.

So this plan isnâ��t going to work; the only uncertainty is about exactly how it would fail.

I suggest you read the budget and/or watch the long video - Backwards Typist

[ In Reply To ..]

before taking someone else's opinion on this budget as fact, especially watch at minute 34 about Medicare.

Don't forget, it's not written in stone, either. He welcomes democratic ideas and amendments. In fact, he stated both sides worked on this budget.

I always enjoy listening to Paul Krugman because I always learn something - Interesting synopsis he gave!

[ In Reply To ..]
Thanks for posting that. Good points.

thanks - icedT

[ In Reply To ..]
Thanks for the link. I'm going to read this tonight. Oh gheez...when did I turn into this dork?! How did this happen?!

If you're a dork, then anyone interested in seeing our country - Backwards Typist

[ In Reply To ..]
get out of this mess, are also dorks, so you're in good company. LOL

Please don't name call--guess it is the end of civility. - nm

[ In Reply To ..]

Not really. The poster called herself a dork - Backwards Typist

[ In Reply To ..]
and I just commented on it as I must be one too because I am involved in politics now.

Nothing wrong with what she and I said to each other.

You lumped in everyone who cares - about getting out of the mess

[ In Reply To ..]

dork - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
Ummm, it was a joke! IcedT called herself a dork and Backwards made a play on it. Get over it. Do you honestly believe that people out there were offended by their banter and didn't know that they were joking with each other?

Geez Louise! - Dorky

[ In Reply To ..]
Using the word "dork" means the end of civility? Exaggerate much?

I'm off to go study about the budget options - Be back with an informed opinion tomorrow

[ In Reply To ..]
I know there are places where I won't be happy if we don't cut, and a few that I'd only be willing to cut after cutting some of the "extras", and I don't consider taking food off the table of babies and elderly to be extras. There's lots to look at. Talk to all of you tomorrow!

what? - icedT

[ In Reply To ..]
Oh that's just great - Is there going to be a test on this tomorrow?? Where can I buy the Cliff's Notes? LOL

Yay!!! My tax % will go down from 35% to 25% - This is going to mean big $ for me

[ In Reply To ..]
I think I'm going to go celebrate! I couldn't be happier.

If you're getting that tax rate, then you're already - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
drowning in money, and yet you still want more. The poor and middle class people will be paying for your tax break. That's what the Republicans are all about, taking from the poor and giving to the rich.

You're already rich, and to brag how this will mean more money for you, while so many people in this country are suffering, is the epitome of greed.

she's just baiting you/nm - icedT

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

Yup, the resident socialist is at it again. - Busy lil beaver he/she is. nm

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

Honestly, I think that it is a travesty that anyone... - Kendra

[ In Reply To ..]
pays 35% of his/her income in taxes while there are others out there who get a "refund" bigger than what they paid in.

Stop the celebration! It's coming out of MY Medicare. - Not So Happy!

[ In Reply To ..]
The Paul Ryan plan dismantles Medicare and also Medicaid. We will get 'vouchers' so that we can go find doctors who will accept vouchers. There is no guarantee that they will and we pay any difference out of our own pocket, if we can. Otherwise, we are without health care at all! No health insurance company is going to insure Medicare patients, because it isn't in their interests. This is not good for anyone who plans on getting old.

It literally chooses who in our country will receive health care, and eliminates health care for those 65 and older. What it does to children and the disabled is another story entirely, but I'm speaking for what it does to me personally. I oppose this plan with everything in me. It is literally life threatening for older people.

Its the new Republican death panel. - nm

[ In Reply To ..]

No actually it is a ripoff of the old Obamacare - death panel. Need to look

[ In Reply To ..]
up Obamacare again about insurance exchanges and vouchers to help pay premiums...you guys loved it in Obamacare. Geez. What a flip flop. You loved it now you hate it, there weren't death panels and now there are.

Geez. You must be dizzy you spun so fast.

So you agree it IS a death panel. - just me

[ In Reply To ..]
So now a death panel is a good thing?

Nice attempt at deflection; I was talking about - the glaring hypocrisy of

[ In Reply To ..]
the left, that's all. Obama's death panel had to do with the "government" option....which did not make it into the finished bill. Ryan only borrowed the health care exchange part. Which everybody likes about Obamacare but apparently doesn't like in Ryan's plan. Hypocrisy.

I meant the use of the word "death panel." And they are using almost the same words describing Ryan's "death panel" as conservatives did Obama's "death panel." That is what I mean about ripoff.

The hypocrisy is astounding.

wait - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
When Palin talked about the death panels, she was hammered and they said she was trying to scare everyone and fear mongering.

So...the Democrats are now the fear mongers. I see.

ROFL

Oh come on....he is talking about insurance - exchanges and vouchers

[ In Reply To ..]
much like Obamacare...you like it when Obama suggests it, but not when Ryan suggests it? It works on the same principle.

Hypocrit.

That's fine except doctors won't accept those vouchers from Medicare patients - and it will not cover the cost

[ In Reply To ..]
It's a way of throwing away those of us over a certain age. No, I don't like it. I've worked hard and don't want to lose everything I have. This Medicare-slashing program will put me in a position where I can choose to get sick and die or lose everything with a catastrophic illness, because I've already been priced out of the health care private market. Medicare is my only option and the Paul Ryan program wants to take that away from me. Not if I can help it.

Not if you're 55 or older when it would take effect. - Backwards Typist

[ In Reply To ..]
You give me the impression you don't like Obamacare. Is that true?

Paul Ryan has government insurance coverage and doesn't have to worry - nm

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

so does Nancy Pelosi - icedT

[ In Reply To ..]
and all the other so-called leaders. I don't understand what point you are trying to make.

Are you saying that the elected leaders shouldn't make legislation in regard to health care because they don't have to worry about it? If that's the case, then Nancy Pelosi has no right to make me buy ObamaCare.

old - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
Hopefully, this is the start of going back to personal responsibility and getting away from the entitlement way of thinking.

How on earth did we ever raise our children without Head Start?!! Let's see...I think we did okay before, and the kids will be fine - just like we were.

That's where you are mistaken. Many were not "fine" just like we were - America can do better than that

[ In Reply To ..]
I'm not willing to throw those children away because they were born in the wrong place, with the wrong parents. I've seen some fine results of those programs. It makes me sick to think that they will be cut/discontinued. This is America. We can do better than that.

Truthfully, what do you think Obamacare is going to do? - Backwards Typist

[ In Reply To ..]
Answer: Same thing if not worse.

can't we just pass it first and then find out what's in it?nm - icedT

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

Too late for that. We now know and it is unacceptable to those like me - I will fight it

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I think they tossed the baby out with the bath water.

Well why not? That\'s what they did with - Obamacare. I assume you

[ In Reply To ..]
were ok with that? How the worm has turned.

According to Nancy Pelosi we could. - nm

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

passing it - sm

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It would be fun to watch all the Dems scream that it's unfair. They would probably run away and leave D.C. to hide out at Nancy Pelosi's vineyard in Napa Valley or another "undisclosed" location.

After looking at it, I don't think the plan creators can relate to normal people - just my opinion

[ In Reply To ..]
It appears to me that the thing is top-heavy, give to the rich and forget the poor (Medicaid) and old (Medicare).

This plan is going to cause more than a few middle-class bankruptcies, home foreclosures, and otherwise just general inability for people to have money to spend, which is going to be very bad for the economy. The rich will do better, yes, so politicians will still receive their donations. Corporations will still receive their subsidies and giant tax breaks, so they really won't even be paying that lower rate that is listed.

As for the people I know in my personal life, a very few of them are going to reap benefits from this plan, because they are in that high income bracket. The rest are not. They will not be able to go out and buy the things they need. They won't be able to enjoy going to a restaurant or get a new car, or even repair the old one. They will have to worry more than ever that they may not be able to survive, and there is no safety net.

Wow. That's what I said about Obamacare. - LOL. nm

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

benefits - icedT

[ In Reply To ..]
To be honest, I don't think the plan was drafted so people could "reap benefits." It's about facing facts about this country's out of control spending and making things right for our kids and grandkids. We make sacrifices for our kids all the time. The American people understand that something drastic has to be done.

Is there anyone who believes that we can continue on this pace of spending without serious consequences?

In the longrun, this is going to cost us more - Reminds me of the Alaskan ice float health plan

[ In Reply To ..]
If you take this to its logical end, senior citizens will not be able to pay for health care, will get sicker, faster, and will die sooner. This is savings? Sure, if you want to get rid of the old people.

It reminds me of the old days in Alaska when they put the old people out on a large piece of floating ice and let them float away to die.

Another ridiculous statement. If you have - read the plan and truly

[ In Reply To ..]
that it's "logical end" we would be sending the old folks off to die, there is really no point in discussing...lol.

If you haven't read it and just wanted to repeat the Republicans hate everybody who isn't rich and want to kill old people and eat your children mantra...again, not much need in discussing.

If the second is the case, you should read it. And then come up with a better answer. Because Medicare and Medicaid are not sustainable in their present form, and if the programs go bankrupt, what then? That conclusion is much more logical considering what is coming in vs what is going out. So what is YOUR answer? Obviously you can't quote a Democrat because they just refuse to address the issue. So perhaps YOU can come up with something and suggest it to the Democrats.

Perhaps if the dragging feet had stopped dragging years ago we would not be faced with having to make hard decisions NOW.

Seriously...you think we can just go merrily along like we are and everything is just going to be okie dokie? Really?

Please...contribute something other than Paul Ryan wants to kill the old folks. Geez.

I don't think Paul Ryan is concerned about the old folks at all - That is only one of the problems

[ In Reply To ..]
I don't like his plan. How's that?!

That's fine. You prefer the present course - of do nothing. Got it.

[ In Reply To ..]
Deficit, schmeficit. Got it. His biggest failing is he isn't a Democrat, right? It's not the plan you don't like...it just didn't come from the right side of the political aisle.

How's that??? lol.

The poster wrote nothing of the sort. How can anyone believe - you when you tell a bald face lie?nm

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

You said it much better than I could. I know what I - Backwards Typist

[ In Reply To ..]
wanted to say, but couldn't find the words. I have a case of brain fog today. LOL

Thanks for your down to earth and straight forward answer to that poster.

Isn't that what we are going through right now? - Backwards Typist

[ In Reply To ..]
Sorry, but I don't agree with your doom and gloom. We're there now. Not many people can go out and buy what they want now. In a way, that's a good thing. The word 'need' has a totally different idea than 'want'. What you want may not be what you need.

Why don't you just wait and see what happens with this plan instead of forecasting the doom and gloom. You know darned well the dems will fight this tooth and nail because it's coming from a pub and because they don't WANT to fix anything. They'd rather tax the American people to death because of their programs, 3/4 which are fraudulent and wasteful spending. That solves all their problems. People think they're getting a bargain but,in fact, they're getting screwed and don't realize it.

If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.....and that is why I didn't vote for Obama or the dems.

What I like about the plan - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
I didn't like the dismantling of Medicare and Medicaid part, but I can heartily agree about dismantling Pell and other federal financial assistance to college students. That is one place that the budget could well be cut, without taking food off anyone's table. It isn't going to kill anyone the way taking away their health care will. I like that part of the plan. The rest, not so much.

But he is right about Medicare and Medicaid... - they cannot continue as is.

[ In Reply To ..]
Unsustainable in present form. Do we just keep going until the country is bankrupt completely and when that happens, no benefits of any kind, period. Everyone wants to say don't do that, but nobody offers any kind of solution to make them solvent. Nobody. And that is why we sit spinning our wheels, pointing fingers at each other, and NOTHING gets done.

At least he is making suggestions, he makes good points, and the fact is, if this had been dealt with in years past we would not be to the point of having to make more drastic changes NOW.

The Republicans are right on this one...we cannot continue to kick the can down the road. We need to DO something.

I think it's called leadership - finally! /nm - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

Yes!! Finally. - nm

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

I suggest they should stop borrowing from it and pay back with interest - then it will work

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The politicians have over the years borrowed from these funds. This is not the fault of the plan, it's abuse of the plan.

Yep, and take a guess who started us down - that slippery slope. nm

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

As far as I know, they didn't borrow from Medicare and Medicaid - Backwards Typist

[ In Reply To ..]
They borrowed BIG TIME from Social Security.

They should pay back Social Security and make it law that it cannot be borrowed against. They should also do some big time Medicare/Medicaid REFORM that cuts out the abuse and fraudulent claims.

That would be part of the solution but Congress has known for years about all of the above and haven't lifted a finger to do anything about it.

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