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From the CBO-a paragraph or 2. It's PDF and a whole lot of info if you want to read


Posted: Nov 30, 2012

...eliminating or reducing the fiscal restraint scheduled to occur next year without imposing comparable restraint in future years would reduce output and income in the longer run relative to what would occur if the scheduled fiscal restraint remained in place. If all current policies were extended for a prolonged period, federal debt held by the public—currently about 70 percent of GDP, its highest mark since 1950—would continue to rise much faster than GDP. Such a path for federal debt could not be sustained indefinitely, and policy changes would be required at some point.

The more that debt increased before policies were changed, the greater would be the negative consequences. Large budget deficits would reduce national saving, thereby curtailing investment in productive capital and diminishing future output and income. Interest payments on the debt would consume a growing share of the federal budget, eventually requiring either higher taxes or a reduction in government benefits and services. In addition, rising debt would increasingly restrict policymakers’ ability to use tax and spending policies to respond to unexpected challenges, such as economic downturns or international crises. Growing debt also would increase the likelihood of a sudden fiscal crisis, during which investors would lose confidence in the government’s ability to manage its budget and the government would lose its ability to borrow at affordable rates. Moreover, the longer the necessary adjustments in policies were delayed, the more uncertain individuals and businesses would be about future government policies, and the more drastic the ultimate changes in policy would need to be.

www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/.../FiscalRestraint_0.pdf

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Yes, but the biggest hangup is tax breaks for the wealthy. - For the GOP. If we do nothing before

[ In Reply To ..]
the so-called "cliff," it's the GOP agenda that's in gravest danger of crashing and burning:

"If we do nothing, the fate of the tax rates for the middle class will automatically become "decoupled" from the fate of tax rates for the rich. Dems WANT that to happen. Republicans, by contrast, want the fate of the two sets of tax rates to remain bound together as one.

This has created an awkward situation that some conservatives will cop to and others won't. Some, like GOP Rep. Tom Cole and a growing number of Republicans, willingly admit that the current situation is lost and that Dems have much of the leverage here. Others are in denial about this -- as Matt Lewis writes, conservatives who think Republicans have the leverage are guilty of "the same kind of happy thinking that led some to boldly predict a Romney victory."

Worse for Republicans, Obama has a simple way to exacerbate the fundamental imbalance of the situation. HE CAN CONTINUE TO CALL ON THE REPUBLICANS TO EXTEND JUST THE MIDDLE CLASS TAX CUTS, since everyone agrees on extending those -- and claim we can resolve the point of disagreement over the tax rates on the rich later. This forces Republicans to say No to this (because they need the two to remain tied together), further UNMASKING JUST HOW HIGH A PRIORITY THEY PLACE ON KEEPING TAXES LOW ON THE RICH -- they are willing to create uncertainty for millions of middle class families to achieve it."


Both Democrats and GOP have economic realities in common that will require cooperation from both, but the rest of a Washington Post blog explanation of why the GOP is in no position to dictate terms is below. They can act as angry as they want, be genuinely as distressed on behalf of the wealthy as some may genuinely be, but, as another columnist puts it, "Republicans are so screwed." (No, not you. You win. The leadership and its keepers lose.

AMAF, I wouldn't be surprised if there weren't various transfers of wealth being planned right now. Not as big as from the UK because the tax increase will actually be very small, but they'll obviously really hate it anyway. They paid, after all, for yet another decrease.

The biggest problem is the GOP wants guarantees from the Dems - backwards typist

[ In Reply To ..]
for spending cuts, which the Dems would agree to, BUT (and it's a big but), they promised the same thing so many times before and they did the direct opposite (spent more and dug us deeper in the hole).

This is part of why there's such a fight now. GOP wants guarantees in writing while Dems just give oral promises.

In fact, Schumer, just yesterday, wants a supplemental amendment added to some bill (I came in late to that hearing) and the federal government to cover 90% of Hurricane Sandy's expenses.

Schumer said that any added money will be tacked onto the deficit, which already is expected to reach about $1 trillion in fiscal 2013. Can you imagine the interest that $1 trillion generates?

He rejected the suggestion that other programs should be cut in order to pay for any new budget needs, saying Democrats won that fight on previous emergency spending bills, too.

So, you see, even though the fiscal cliff and deficits are being debated and argued about spending cuts, Schumer already is asking for more spending, as if putting it into the deficit would hide it from us.

It has to stop somewhere and I sincerely hope the GOP sticks to their guns on this one or else, we're going to go the way of Greece.

No, that's what they're TELLING you is the big problem. - It's not. It's tax breaks for their boss

[ In Reply To ..]
every year.

Cuts to Grandma's monthly SocSec check and increases in her monthly Medicare payments for cut back services won't need to be as hurtful once they accept that the top 1% is going to be paying more of their share of our bills from here on in.

This isn't exactly high ground they're fighting to protect, you know. It's villainy, and the GOP's in the unenviable position of trying to protect it's biggest source of corruption right out in public. Sort of like its attempts to suppress the vote right out for everyone to see, and look how that turned out.
I'm tired of hearing cuts to SS and cuts in Medicare services - backwards typist
[ In Reply To ..]
Where does it state this? Where's the evidence?

I haven't seen nor heard of it. I heard of means testing for the highest earners that receive SS. I heard of raising the SS age a year or two, and that's justifiable since people are working longer and living longer. I also heard that they want to take the cap off SS taxes so those who earn more than $106,800 will still pay into it all year.

I heard that Obama already cut Medicare and Medicaid. I also saw where Obamacare took $716 billion from Medicare and put it into his health care plan to cover the first year.

Those are items I know about. I really want to know where you're getting your info in your post.
WOW, did you actually say what I - read ?
[ In Reply To ..]
top 1% is going to be paying more of THEIR SHARE OF OUR BILLS from here on in.
Yes, I did. My money's in their pockets. At least they - can pay the taxes I would have on it. nm
[ In Reply To ..]
x

We are going to go the way of Greece... - ZvilleMT

[ In Reply To ..]
it's just a matter of time. Even if the dems get their way and get their tax increases (which as a post further down the board correctly states, even if they take it all, it won't be enough), they'll never make any spending cuts. And honestly, this would not have changed had Romney won and the republicans had taken control of congress because everyone wants "theirs," regardless of what has to be done to get it. Each of those people belong to a voting block that no one in DC wants to turn against them. This won't change until there's nothing left.
We're one of the wealthiest nations in the world. - We can't go the way of Greece. nm
[ In Reply To ..]
x

That is a smoke screen - me

[ In Reply To ..]
That is a small 2% of people - the middle class will be hit with the biggest tax increases because of Obamacare - to the tune of over millions of dollars in new taxes. I think Congress should be their normal "do nothing self" and let Obama take the hit for falling off the fiscal cliff.

Can someone explain to me why we can't just let the - Bush tax cuts expire?

[ In Reply To ..]
They only helped the rich anyway, right?

Bush cuts/fiscal cliff - bootstraps

[ In Reply To ..]
Actually it was an across-the-board cut, estimated around $2000/year for middle-income workers.

But letting the Bush cuts expire isn't the only consequence attached to the "fiscal cliff."

I linked an article that I posted a day or so ago. I think it explains pros and cons pretty well.

I understand that... - but the argument for years

[ In Reply To ..]
has been that the Bush cuts only helped the wealthy. It would seem to me that a fix for this would be to just let them go. I know there are other things tied to it, but no one really seemed to care about that until just recently.
Can you definte "no one"? - bootstraps
[ In Reply To ..]
I'm not trying to be confrontational, but I've been following this for a while and all the other stuff attached has definitely been a concern. I've actually never heard that the Bush tax cuts only help the wealthy.
That was the argument that those on the left who were - against them for years
[ In Reply To ..]
have been saying. I've said all along they actually helped the middle class more than the rich, but I was even shot down by my liberal friend when I said it. I was really being facetious when I said to let the tax cuts expire - it's just that that's all I've heard for years right up until they were set to expire. It appears you are more well-informed than others that had been spouting about it.
You're not putting words in my mouth, are you? - bootstraps
[ In Reply To ..]
I didn't say it helped the middle class more than the rich. I just said that the middle wage earners would lose $2000 a year if the taxes expired.

I also said that in this whole fiscal cliff there are so many other things involved that impact everyone. I guess you didn't read the article I linked.

There was no linked article - it only went to an - advertisement.
[ In Reply To ..]
and I wasn't putting words in your mouth - I know how bad it would be and I've said that all along. What I was saying was that's the argument I've heard from the left - not necessarily you - that's why I said obviously you're better informed.

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