A community of 30,000 US Transcriptionist serving Medical Transcription Industry

! ObamaCare's Stiff Penalties

Posted: Mar 22, 2010

WOW, HAVE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE BEEN HAD!!

According to the CBO (Congressional Budget Office) estimates, ObamaCare policy will cost approximately $12,000 to $15,000 per year for a family and about $4500 to $5000 per year for a single person. (posted that one yesterday, including link) This is an INCREASE BTW over what most people pay currently.

If you purchase a policy in good faith believing that it meets govt. requirements, if the govt. deems that it DOES NOT meet their requirements they will automatically debit your account for $2250 or 2.5% of your income, whichever is greater.

If you do not have a policy as mandated, check out the penalties.

http://republicans.waysandmeans.house.gov/UploadedFiles/JCTletter110509.pdf

;

Oh, I am really feeling horrible about now. My husband - and I buy catastrophic insurance and

[ In Reply To ..]
pay a total of less than 3 thousand a year for the 2 of us combined. We are healthy and do not even use it. For the Govt to do this to us. Tell me, supporters, how is THIS fair?!! You explain this if you love the plan. Can you?? How is this helping us? We are middle class, pay our bills, and ask for nothing. Now this? I am disgusted.

Well they can't exclude you for preexisting conditions, so only get it when you're sick. - Anon

[ In Reply To ..]
The $2250 fine is cheaper than the $3000 I pay for my portion, so I'd still make out. Thanks, Obama!

Of course, my employer pays the other $15,000 for me, so I'm sure they'll be getting rid of company insurance next year and just paying the fine. Doh, who didn't see that coming?

So I'll be without insurance at my job soon but I make too much for any kind of handout, oops, subsidy from the government because my husband works 2 jobs and I work fulltime. Guess we're the idiots for trying to support ourselves. Who knew hard work wouldn't pay off?

So I guess our only option is to pay the fine, although it's immoral and unconstitutional, and then when we get sick we'll buy the insurance. Then when we're better, we'll drop it. Vicious cycle, but that's going to be the American way pretty soon.

Once again: Thanks, Obama!

I'm in the same boat - anon

[ In Reply To ..]
But we pay $4800 a year and with our income we have had to cut back on other things. On top of that with catastrophic you still have to pay for everything out of pocket on top of a premium. If they are going to do this then why even bother working anymore. I might as well quit and receive unemployment and a free health handout. I honestly could not imaging doing that, but I cannot afford to live and pay them what they will determine they want me to pay.

People are upset that and think that insurance companies are making a huge profit, when in fact they only make like 4 to 6% in profits. Government is going to outweigh that percentage by 60-80% or more.

Yeah, that makes sense... instead of CEOs and employees receiving profits, government politicians will.

But just think of all the freeloaders and lazy people who'll have insurance now.... - Anon

[ In Reply To ..]
That should make you feel all warm and fuzzy all over.

Wow, you're just a little ball of hate for your fellow man, aren't you? - nm How Sad

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

Do you really think that eveybody who has no health insurance - HCR

[ In Reply To ..]
is a freeloader and lazy?
Wow, you are a bitter person.

Acc to the HCR everybody has to have health insurance and pay premiums, the ones that cannot pay, will get help from the government.

Good that the bill went through and Obama's rating will go up! All the 32 millions will vote for him.

But what about those who are, don't you think - anon

[ In Reply To ..]
something should be done about that? Not every one who needs insurance is a freeloader, but there are many out there who are and I have seen some of them and they just don't care. How can the freeloaders be stopped. Absolutely not talking about the people who are not freeloaders, talking about those who do not want to work and are very able-bodied.

I do not think that freeloaders,who really are lazy freeloaders - ???

[ In Reply To ..]
can cheat out the system for long. Sooner or later they will be caught.

What do you mean by "...do not want to work and are very able-bodied." Sooner or later their unemployment payments run out, and if they are able-bodied, why should they continue to receive benefits.

If they are able-bodied, AND THERE IS A JOB AVAILABLE TO THEM, they have to accept the job before their unemployment runs out.

You should read up on all the welfare cases - out there

[ In Reply To ..]
So many able-bodied people have been abusing the system in California. There are generations of families on Medi-Cal and AFDC. Why do you think Cali is bankrupt. I have watched these kids grow up on welfare, have kids of their own on welfare, and then their kids have kids all on welfare. I am sure California is not the only place this has been going on in.

Those are the freeloaders I want to see get off their butts and become responsible citizens.

They learned well how to use the system.
Makes you think about those two infamous words "Social Justice."

I already have insurance. I already pay, but it will - go up! This bill is a sham!.nm

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

That is precisely the kind of post that is being - used specifically to

[ In Reply To ..]
push buttons and take the hatred up a notch. I actually hope in this case that IS what you are doing because if you actually believe that garbage then the alternative is that you truly are ignorant and have a total and complete lack of compassion for people. You are smarter than that, at least, I thought you were and hope that I am correct, because this statement about people being lazy-WOW! Way inaccurate and WAY over the top.

How about those who have been SUFFERING?? - Because they did not have insurance?

[ In Reply To ..]
My friend has a tooth that is rotting in her mouth. She is in constant agony and has been for years with this tooth. Why not get something done about it? She is a single mother with a special needs child. She has no job, no income. Her child gets help from the state but she does not, so she has suffered with this incredible pain for years.

She is not lazy nor greedy...just a mother trying her best to do a good job for her children - in spite of being in constant unbearable pain.

How ignorant to accuse those without insurance of being lazy and freeloaders.

Those lazy people will have to get up off their butts! - Have to pay for insurance.

[ In Reply To ..]
They will have to pay for their insurance. Kinda like car insurance. You cannot drive unless you have car insurance.

IRS will monitor to see if you have health coverage insurance and if you don't, you will pay a penalty/fine. So, hopefully those 32 million who do not have insurance will be able to afford the government insurance. Of course if you are laid off and trying to look for a job, etc., you will get lower coverage and help to afford it, but still have to show you have insurance. I do not believe it is FREE like some people think it will be.

Yes, everybody wil have to have insurance B-U-T - premiums

[ In Reply To ..]
if somebody does not have the means THE GOVERNMENT will help to pay the premiums, and for those who are below minimum wage the government will pay if FULL.

Just because a person doesn't have insurance... - nnn

[ In Reply To ..]
doesn't mean one is lazy and jobless. Many people work and prefer to pay when they need health care and not pay and pay and pay and pay and never use it because they work to stay healthy. You are sadly misinformed and about as clueless as Obama. This is like being forced to buy protective gear for protection from lightening when you have eough sense to stay out of the rain. Lightening may strike (a very rare possibility) but when it does, I'll pay for it when and/or if it does. In the meantime, butt out Obama. I'll decide if I want to go out in a lightening storm or not and take that risk. Health is a choice, for the most part, and Obama has no business telling me I have to see a doctor for any reason. Health insurance is just another way for his administration to milk the American people.

But what are you going to do, if you get into a - HCI

[ In Reply To ..]
terrible accident and need a lot of surgeries? Or get a terrible disease?

Then you would be happy to have health insurance, but too late.

What are you going to do then?

I, too, believe that everybody should have health insurance coverage.

You do not have the right...sm - nnn

[ In Reply To ..]
to make that choice for me. I believe people who hurt others in accidents should be made to pay for that person's care. I believe that's why we have auto insurance. I'm not worried about terrible diseases. I believe terrible diseases are inflicted upon us by our own "terrible" habits and if I have to wait for a terrible accident to happen before I can use my insurance, that may never happen and hopefully it never will. I've lived without health insurance for 20 years. I'm doing just fine. Now stay on your side of the road because I've also never had a MVA. I don't want health insurance. But I'm going to be forced to make the health insurance companies even richer because I will still, in all likelihood, never use it the way everyone else does. I will be waiting for my accident to "pay off." It's just another way for Uncle Sam to get into my pockets.

Question to - You

[ In Reply To ..]
I want to acknowledge the fact that you are in total control of your own health.

Having said that....what would you suggest for people who choose not to be covered with insurance and something does happen? Something that ruins their health and renders them unable to work? Currently, when these folks have exhausted all resources, the taxpayers pay for them.

Wouldn't you say that it would be fair to refuse them treatment when they are no longer able to pay? What would we do with these people if they were treated fairly? Many of them don't even have a home to go to to die. Would the American people allow a person of no means to just die without comfort care and nowhere to die? We can't leave them in the streets.

If I could, I would have an opt-out for those who choose not to be covered, but they would also have to agree to absolutely no medical care for which they cannot pay. It's only fair, but just wouldn't work would it.

What do you suggest is fair for someone who chooses not to purchase insurance and also for the rest of us?

I think... - nnn

[ In Reply To ..]
our taxes go to help these people who can't pay. They always have and always will. You have to be more explicit. Are you talking about those who have "accidents" such as a MVA, those who get shot, stabbed, etc., those who are hurt and others are responsible or are you talking about those who simply refuse to care for their health and eventually get diabetes or heart disease and some types of cancer? I have been paying with my taxes for 20 years for people such as these? Don't I deserve care when an accident does happen to me through no fault of my own, just because I don't want to pay hundreds of thousands to the insurance companies that I will never make use of because I make sacrifices for my health? How fair is that?? It's not...I believe that you should be able to buy certain types of insurance and the rates should be lower for those who make a conscious effort to care for their own health and not abuse the system. That would be me.

I'm talking about people who choose not to - be insured

[ In Reply To ..]
and end up costing the taxpayers because of the choice to be uninsured period.

Many who choose... - nnn

[ In Reply To ..]
to be uninsured are far healthier than the ones who have insurance and never use the system. How does that cost the taxpayers anything? I haven't seen a doctor since 1988. How many times have you been to your doctor this year? ;)

Here's the question - again

[ In Reply To ..]
I want to acknowledge the fact that you are in total control of your own health.

Having said that....what would you suggest for people who choose not to be covered with insurance and something does happen? Something that ruins their health and renders them unable to work? Currently, when these folks have exhausted all resources, the taxpayers pay for them.

Wouldn't you say that it would be fair to refuse them treatment when they are no longer able to pay? What would we do with these people if they were treated fairly? Many of them don't even have a home to go to to die. Would the American people allow a person of no means to just die without comfort care and nowhere to die? We can't leave them in the streets.

If I could, I would have an opt-out for those who choose not to be covered, but they would also have to agree to absolutely no medical care for which they cannot pay. It's only fair, but just wouldn't work would it.

What do you suggest is fair for both the taxpayers and someone who chooses not to purchase insurance who ends up in a medical situation that depletes all of their funds and cannot pay for further care?

P.S. I go to the doctor for routine check ups. I am middle-aged and am on no medications.

your strategy might well work for you, but not for a family of 4,5,6.... - HCI

[ In Reply To ..]
I didn't make the choice for you, the Congress did.

Sorry... but it did work for my family of 5 - nnn

[ In Reply To ..]
We had no insurance for 20 years and raised 3 children. When they had broken bones, we paid for it out of our own pockets. I worked hard to keep my family healthy and it worked. It was the accidents that caused us to have to pay out for care. Broken bones, one snake bit and one cut on the arm. My kids didn't have "well visits" and I didn't take them in for every little sniffle or cough. It worked just fine for us. Kids should have free health care. Adults should be more responsible where there health is concerned. Most "health care" visits are for problems that could have been avoided in the first place--diabetes, hypertension, obesity, high cholesterol, arthritis, etc. People have abused the system for years because of their refusal to take care of their own health.

avoided in the first place? - cj

[ In Reply To ..]
how exactly would you "avoid" juvenile onset, type ! diabetes? You would penalize the child for being ill? how about the young child with a childhood cancer? how exactly would you avoid arthritis? get over yourself.

sm... - nnn

[ In Reply To ..]
Juvenile diabetes has been linked very strongly to cow's milk and formula. My babies were breast fed. There is a reason for every disease out there, even juvenile diabetes. No, I wouldn't penalize a child for having a disease but I wouldn't necessarily buy insurance just for that reason. Arthritis is also diet related. Dairy proteins are suspect. Many people have relief of symptoms from a variety of illnesses when they give up dairy. It's meant for babies....baby calves. Not humans. Educate yourself. Knowledge is powerful. ;)

Hey, aren't you going to answer the question - above

[ In Reply To ..]
About people who choose not to carry insurance, end up bankrupt and using the taxpayers?

When you answer the question... - nnn

[ In Reply To ..]
about those people who refuse to let go of the cheeseburgers and ice cream cones who bankrupt the system with their refusal to take better care of their bodies, making health care outrageously expensive for all of us. ;)

You're just avoiding the question. I knew you - would

[ In Reply To ..]
It's a tough one isn't it?

Not as tough as the one you refuse to answer... - nnn

[ In Reply To ..]
`

I asked the question first which you are avoiding - because you

[ In Reply To ..]
have no answer for it. What question have you asked? I am not arguing the fact that some people don't take care of themselves. There are many people who do not take care of themselves and also choose not to purchase insurance. They end up costing the taxpayers money no doubt more so than the ones who take care of themselves, but both groups cost the taxpayers money if something bad health-wise happens and they go broke nonetheless.

Perhaps you would like to have the American public monitored to sort into groups the ones who are and the ones who are not taking care of themselves? After all, many of these people don't even go to the doctor. How would we keep track?

You have no answer for the question. I have completely stumped you, and you are scrambling to avoid answering. You talk big, and that's all there is to it.

It's nobody's business... - nnn

[ In Reply To ..]
who goes to the doctor and who doesn't as long as health care is available to all when it's needed and those who refuse to take care of themselves don't bankrupt the system for those of us who need care when we have an "accident." But that's the operative word--needed. Most people go for tests they don't need, they go with a sniffle, a headache, joint pains, abortions, etc. and most of them don't have insurance either. We are all going broke trying to cover irresponsible people who refuse to take responsibility for their health because they don't have to. Why should I pay for an irresponsible person who abuses the system while I, on the other hand, am responsible and work hard to stay healthy? You answer the question. If anybody is scrambling, it's you.

This is absolutely pitiful - you couldn't answer - if your life depended on it

[ In Reply To ..]
and, what is your question? I agree with you on everything. You shouldn't have to pay for anyone else, etc. Now, what will we do with those who choose not to purchase insurance, and end up in a medical situation where they will cost the taxpayers? Simple question. What should we do with those people?

It depends on the medical situation... - nnn

[ In Reply To ..]
If the situation is an accident, they should receive care, if necessary, provided by taxpayers like we have been doing for many years. Accidents through no fault of each particular person can't be helped. However....if the medical situation is deemed to be the cause of their own refusal to care for themselves, they will have to pay their own way. As I said before and continue to say, most visits to the doctor or hospital are because of a person's failure, usually refusal to care for their themselves properly. They should pay. It's called a "payment plan." If society took better care of their health, we wouldn't have this problem today. Health care has to be made affordable for all so that we can have it available when we need it but we should all be made responsible for our own bad choices. If you refuse to quit smoking, then pay for your own cancer treatment. Don't force me to do it because I don't smoke. Simple answer. We should let those people pay for their own care. Now, stop asking the same question over and over. You may not like the answer but stop asking the same question....It's been answered. ;)

Okay, thanks - but

[ In Reply To ..]
you missed the most important part of the question. It's about those who will end up costing the taxpayers. Like I said in the original question, those you will not be able to pay. All resources exhausted and unable to work.

Health insurance equals car insurance??? Hahaha! - OMG ! Duh ?

[ In Reply To ..]
One can survive without a car, but one has to get medical treatment.

One has to get medical treatment??? - nnn

[ In Reply To ..]
Says who? Medical treatment is a choice unless you are comatose and then your family makes that choice for you. One can also survive without medical treatment and very nicely I might add. Are you one of those misguided, misinformed people who believe that everyone is on a med or, if not, needs to be? Or needs to be tested to see if you need to be on a med? And after being tested, will definitely need a med or "treatment" of some kind? LOL Treatment is a choice and, even with the strong-arm tactics of the government, it will continue to be a choice. Some of us will just have to pay regardless of our choice. That suckles. ;)

I am the one who refused to take antidepressants - compassion

[ In Reply To ..]
and take only once a month an aspirin.
I am totally against meds, the one with the magnificent genes. The last time I saw a doctor was 10 years ago.

I am not talking about me, I talk about poor people who suffer and need medical attention and treatment, and cannot afford it.

I have compassion, you don't.

I have no compassion for those... - nnn

[ In Reply To ..]
who refuse to care for themselves, who refuse to make sacrifices for their health but instead bloat up to 300 lbs, eat junk, never exercise, smoke, drink, take drugs and then want help. And a large portion of our society fits into that category. No... I have no compassion for them.

people who live like this hurt themselves most of all, - diabetes 2

[ In Reply To ..]
and if they continue like this, they will not live long, anyway.

BTW, diabetes type 2 is not a self-inflicted disease, sometimes it is, but more often it is not.

Diabetes type 2 often results when the cells cannot absorb the insulin, this is called insulin intolerance or resistance, causing the sugar level in the blood to remain high, no matter how well the person takes care of his food and exercises a lot.

Not true... - nnn

[ In Reply To ..]
You can continue to believe the myth. My husband was told he had diabetes. He changed his diet and his blood sugar is never over 110, usually 80 to 90 in the mornings. Most people don't take care of themselves and, in fact, refuse to do so. Wa la....diabetes magically appears. There are many doctors who would tell you just how wrong you are. If you would like their names, I can give them to you. Argue with them. I've got better things to do. ;)

you are a ridiculous person, living by your own madeup rules - diabetes

[ In Reply To ..]
Often diabetes cannot be controlled through the right food and exercise alone, if your husband can do it. it means that his body responds well to injected insulin. Some bodies do not.
Especially if the person is elderly.

Diabetes is also often inherited, it runs in families, even if they do not live in the same house, do not eat the same food. How do you explain this with "your theories?"

Don't you get a mental picture of nnn skipping - and whistling

[ In Reply To ..]
with her eyes shut and her fingers in her ears while her insides decay? Sorry, I know that's gross, but how ridiculous can she be?

LOL - nnn

[ In Reply To ..]
Diabetes can be controlled through diet and exercise alone. The problem is most people simply refuse to control it this way. Diabetes is not inherited. What's inherited is bad eating habits. My husband does not use insulin and never has. He refused it. His mother was diabetic and most of his brothers and sisters are as well but he doesn't eat the same diet they do. That's my theory as well as Dr. McDougall's, Dr. Fuhrman's, Dr. Caldwell's and many more doctors who don't mind setting the record straight. You assumed but you assumed wrong. LOL

LOL you can find someone to back up anything - you want to believe

[ In Reply To ..]
If you want to bury your head in the sand, you can find any number of people who will cover it up for you, but they never number as many as those who have actual facts and do not care to pretend. There are millions of people who control their type 2 diabetes with diet and exercise. There are a multitude of other diseases that are not controlled so easily and are not the result of diet.

Compassion? - anon

[ In Reply To ..]
That is what you are lacking, or rather you only have compassion for people who agree with you.

The poster you replied to was absolutely 100% correct. Medical treatment is a choice. Not everyone in this country needs medical treatment.

If there are poor people who are suffering there should be alternative to help them out. A medical insurance plan they can afford and not be dropped from. That is compassion.

Don't make the rest of the country (the 86% of the country who doesn't want this bill) to suffer because of those few.

I'll refer you to the words of the ever so wise Mr. Spock - "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one".

You certainly don't have compassion for over 80% of the people in this country who are happy with what they have or don't want to be forced into a socialized health care program.

You have compassion?????? I don't think so via your own words.

anon: I think you directed your answer to the wrong person, - huh?

[ In Reply To ..]
you seem to be confused or you need reading glasses.

I have compassion for the poor people and I am happy that the bill for the HCR passed, although I am very healthy, do not take meds, and haven't seen a doctor in 10 years.

Maybe I did but I don't think I did, unless - anon

[ In Reply To ..]
you are confused and the one who needs reading glasses.

I replied to the person who made the nasty remark that said they had passion but the poster they replied to did not. The same poster who has no compassion for 85% of the country who are happy with their health care and don't want our system destroyed for their own political gain.

That person I replied to showed no compassion for the majority of Americans. They would rather see the country destroyed for what...political gain?

I'm glad you are healthy and that is a good thing. I too am healthy. I am very concerned that people should have decent health coverage. It should be affordable and they should have the option of whether or not to buy it. Heck, I want affordable health care. I have compassion for both the people who want and need health insurance and compassion for the people who are happy and fine with what they have. Why something could not be worked out is beyond me. The democrats were not willing to work with the republicans. All they wanted was government takeover and nothing else. They ignored the republican trying to work with them.

I am definitely not happy this catastrophic plan passed. I was hoping both sides would work together and come up with a plan to help everyone without a government take over. I was hoping that for once I would have seen some unity in Washington. We didn't have it during the last administration and unfortunately we didn't have it with this administration. Democrats refused to listen to the republicans and would not involve them in many of the meetings they should have been in. The democrats in office need to realize that there are many repulicans (over 100 of them) elected by the people of this country to represent them. To close them out of meetings and ignore their requests to speak with this is utterly disgusting and shameless. Even your grand ol POTUS had the audacity and arrogance to insult anyone who did not agree with him.

How this deal went down is a dirty rotten, corrupt way and everyone in DC should be ashamed of themselves for deficating on the American public. They too have shown no compassion for the will of the American public.

If you are the poster of that message all I have to say is that if you don't want to be accused of having no compassion, then don't tell others they don't.

you replied to this post:.......sm - compassion

[ In Reply To ..]
"I am the one who refused to take antidepressants - compassion", this was my post, and your reply does not address anything mentioned in my comment.

That such a strawman argument anyway....there are clinics for the poor. - Anon

[ In Reply To ..]
Here in the Phoenix area we have a traveling clinic in an RV, Mission of Mercy, that goes to different church parking lots every day and sees patients all day long.

When my daughter wasn't in college and therefore not on my insurance, she got on a state assistance plan, Healthy Choices, and had a list of clinics she could go to, all for $50/year and a copay.

We can help the poor by reducing the cost of medical care in this country. One way to do that is TORT REFORM, so the doctors don't have to cover their behinds doing every test under the sun so they don't get sued. The fear of a lawsuit is what drives that behavior, so take that fear away and you'd see healthcare costs drop.

Then healthcare would be more affordable for all and we wouldn't have to throw away a system that 80% to 85% of Americans are perfectly happy with so we can accommodate the 15% to 20% who aren't. That's called "tyranny of the minority," and it's not what our country was founded on.

that's just ridiculous - cj

[ In Reply To ..]
If you have not needed medical treatment, good for you. But as a cancer survivor, I can tell you, the choice is treatment or die. I was in my 20s when diagnosed so I think treatment was a necessity, or would you have my "choose" to die instead? My 5-year-old niece who suffered leukemia. Was that treatment a choice? she is now 23 years old, just graduated from college and is soon to be married. Choice? We shall see when you first exhibit truly frightening symptoms if you choose treatment or death. Had kids? Ever had a child with an ear infection? would you seek treatment? By the way, who delivered those kids? You? When the drunk driver runs the red light and plows into your car, you gonna tell the EMTs to buzz off and watch as your loved ones suffer and possibly die? Geez, I cannot believe anyone could say something so downright selfish, arrogant and stupid.

That's fine cj -see message - anon

[ In Reply To ..]
Putting your situation as though it happens to every single citizen in the United states is not right. Yes, some people have health issues and need insurance. It should be available for them and it should be affordable and it should not kick anyone off the plan if they get an illness. But not everyone in the United States is going to get cancer or leukemia or any of those other horrible diseases.

Health care is a choice. Always has been and always should be. It is unconstitutional to force someone to purchase a goods/item that they do not want or need, unless they want to buy it. It's in the constitution. That is a personal choice for me to make. I should not be responsible to help pay for somebody else to have a commodity that they wish to have.

Once again health insurance should be affordable for all who want to have it and everyone should be given the choice to purchase that goods/service or not. Something needs to be done for the people who want it. Leave the rest of the country (over 80% of the country) alone. We are happy with our health insurance or happy without health insurance.

Please do not call people selfish, arrogant, and stupid because they have a difference of opinion than you. I've been following your posts for many months and I know you are better than that.

What I consider selfish is the people who want to change the system for the few. The ones who don't care about the people who are already happy with their insurance or happy without insurance and believe they should force their viewpoints down their throats because they someone think they know better than those who are doing just fine with the way their lives are now.

If they want to make it affordable that would excellent. Nothing I'd like more than affordable insurance. But also follow the constitution and let me be the one to decide whether or not I will get it. That is not the right of anyone to force someones opinions and viewpoints on someone else.

to anon - cj

[ In Reply To ..]
If you have followed my posts, then you know I was not in favor of passing this bill for a variety of reasons, mostly that the majority of citizens were opposed to it and I don't feel the legislature should bypass the will of the people. But what I am talking about here is not difference of opinion. While my situation would obviously not apply to everyone, the reality is that very few people will go through life without any illness or accident that would necessitate insurance of some sort to cover the expenses. Very few of us can afford routine care let alone anything else. My statement about selfish, arrogant and stupid was intended for the individual above who thinks that people would not need medical care or insurance if they "took care of themselves" the way she does, that all illness is of our own doing. If it offended others, then I guess I failed to express myself. That was not my intent. But I think it is insulting to tell people that their illnesses are their own fault and that is what I find arrogant, selfish and stupid. That poster really ticked me off! Sorry about the rant. My cancer was not of my own doing. My niece's leukemia was not of her doing or her parents' doing. My neighbor's son's diabetes is not of his own doing, and how dare she judge us and tell us and millions like us that our lifesaving treatment was a "choice" we could have foregone and been better off for it. Hard to be better off in a coffin.

Oh my cj - my apologies - I did misunderstand your post - anon

[ In Reply To ..]
I can definitely see your point and understand exactly what you were saying now.

All I say is I wish you the very best and will be praying for your good health. Don't feel you have to apologize for a rant. I understand where you are coming from. My grandmother had cancer and through no fault of her own.

Again, my sincerest apologies. Think I better give this board a rest for a few days (if not longer). I truly and sincerely wish you the best (and your niece and all).

Take care cj.

Then you find the truth... - nnn

[ In Reply To ..]
of what lots of doctors say arrogant, selfish and stupid. All disease is caused by something we have done whether in utero or after birth. There has been research about, both, leukemia and juvenile diabetes being strongly related to dairy proteins. These may be things none of us want to hear but it doesn't mean they're not true. Wouldn't it be much better to avoid things that do put us at risk rather than have to undergo treatments that may prolong life but won't keep the disease from coming back if we don't stop the cause? If that sounds arrogant, stupid and selfish to you, well I'm sorry but those are the cold hard facts. And stating those facts does not mean I'm judging. In fact, if I get a disesase, it will be of my own doing and I can admit that.

Cancer treatment - nnn

[ In Reply To ..]
killed my mother. I would never choose treatment but I do "choose" to take care of myself. I'm not afraid of the big C. Many people have foregone treatment and lived. In fact, they are much better off today because of it. Leukemia...Did you realize that cows also get leukemia and you drink their milk and eat their ice cream and cheese? Ear infections...again caused by dairy. Already been proven. Bottle babies get ear infections. My children never had one until they started drinking milk at school and I put a stop to that. One child I delivered myself. The accident you speak of is exactly what I'm talking about. If involved in an accident, then care should be provided. If any one is misinformed, it would be you. ;)

cancer treatment - hello?

[ In Reply To ..]
don't suppose you consider maybe it was the cancer that killed your mother? Many more people who have foregone treatment have also died, and many of them could have gone on to live healthy and productive lives. By the way, who did deliver your other children? I would never ever wish illness on anyone, but wow, if it has to happen to someone, let's put you at the head of the line so you get over the superior attitude and learn about reality.

No, it wasn't the cancer... - nnn

[ In Reply To ..]
she had a small cancerous polyp that was removed. They told her she didn't even need chemo and then changed her mind. She died from a blood infection while receiving chemo treatment. She would have lived if she hadn't agreed to the "treatment." A hospital delivered all my children. If I had known about midwives, I would have used one of them. My last child was born in the hospital but I was unattended at the time of his birth. I'm not afraid to go to the head of the line. Disease doesn't frighten me. I know the risks and I avoid them. I don't have a superior attitude. I just happen to believe in different doctors than you. And they are about staying healthy, not making ourselves sick.

Thanks, cj. These posts are just turning my - stomach. sm

[ In Reply To ..]
When my son was born, within 2 months he was admitted to the hospital for RSV and spent a week there. Doc warned us that this may trigger asthma. About 3 WEEKS later, he had his first asthma attack-back into the hospital. It was to the point where his PCP was making jokes about giving us a permanent parking spot at the hospital and clinic. We actually spent one Christmas Eve and most of Christmas day in the hospital with him in an oxygen tent. He had pneumonia probably 5 or 6 times, which always exacerbated his asthma. By the age of 3 he was "growing out of" the asthma issues but the tics, ADHD and signs of Aspergers and OCD started to appear complete with rages and meltdowns, compulsions about putting a plastic bag over his head, turning on burners, etc. He is 19 now. He can't get or keep a job and all of his doctors concur that he likely never will. He is now able to add depression and anxiety to his list of diagnoses (and migraines, just for for fun) and has on several occasions been so depressed that he was requesting to be put in a psych unit. He is not lazy. He is not stupid,and in fact has a very high IQ. He is disabled. This was not within his control. He did nothing wrong to bring this on himself. Are you going to say that he needs to stop being lazy and get a job??? When did American's become so heartless and self absorbed. Unfortunately cj, this is not the first time people have said things like this here.

Sounds like... - nnn

[ In Reply To ..]
allergies to me, more than likely a dairy allergy. Allergies can cause all those problems. People should stop justifying all their health problems and try to do something about them. We're a nation of "I have a disease and can't help it." But the sad fact of the matter is so many of these diseases and disorders can be corrected if a person is willing to give it a shot. Most aren't. And that just turns my stomach. ;)

But you do have a disease.... - cj

[ In Reply To ..]
actually diseases. you have an attitude disease and you lack a heart, and you are too arrogant to know it. You think you know better than everyone else. Who do you think you are talking to people that way? This is a mother who is concerned for her child and you tell her it turns your stomach that she is not willing to "give it a shot." You know, I am a Christian, but some of what I am thinking right now is pretty darned un-Christian. How about a little humanity and a dose of respect for others? Give it a try some time. You might find it goes a long way.

Some people find it hard... - nnn

[ In Reply To ..]
to face facts. You appear to be one such person. I am not cold hearted. I feel bad for any person with a disease. It still doesn't change the fact that most disease can be prevented and is usually caused by something we have done or ingested. Those who believe genetics has caused their problems are just looking for a crutch. How about giving some respect to those who are not afraid to face the truth. Respect is a two-way street. My stomach is turned by a lot of "treatments" our medical community has dreamed up for disorders that don't exist. But that's another argument for another day. ;)

You know... - wow

[ In Reply To ..]
Putting a little smiley face after your posts doesn't make them any less rotten or mean. Just sayin'.

For the record, in an attempt to avoid meds - we went to both an allergist

[ In Reply To ..]
and a naturopath. Thanks for the suggestions "doctor" but you do not know what you are talking about. Please do not act as though you do. My original point stands.

It depends on the medical situation... - nnn - nnn

[ In Reply To ..]

Posted: Mar 23rd, 2010 - 5:33 pm In Reply to: This is absolutely pitiful - you couldn't answer - if your life depended on it

If the situation is an accident, they should receive care, if necessary, provided by taxpayers like we have been doing for many years. Accidents through no fault of each particular person can't be helped. However....if the medical situation is deemed to be the cause of their own refusal to care for themselves, they will have to pay their own way. As I said before and continue to say, most visits to the doctor or hospital are because of a person's failure, usually refusal to care for their themselves properly. They should pay. It's called a "payment plan." If society took better care of their health, we wouldn't have this problem today. Health care has to be made affordable for all so that we can have it available when we need it but we should all be made responsible for our own bad choices. If you refuse to quit smoking, then pay for your own cancer treatment. Don't force me to do it because I don't smoke. Simple answer. We should let those people pay for their own care. Now, stop asking the same question over and over. You may not like the answer but stop asking the same question....It's been answered. ;)

That is flat out wrong - anon

[ In Reply To ..]
You are toting the same ol line that everyone is going to need medical treatment.

I'm healthy, never needed medical treatment. Aside from a doctors appointment which I paid for. Not everyone needs medical treatment. My grandpa lived until 94. He never ever once went to the doctor except for eyeglasses. Never had surgery, never had illness, nothing. My dad is healthy, my cousin, aunt, uncle, my friends I grew up with and went to school with, my brother in law, sister in law (actually 3), my nephew and nieces, friends kids, parents, etc...same thing. Not everyone has to get medical treatment, and when they do they pay out our their pocket like me and everyone I know has.

Car insurance... I'm waiting for them to pass a bill that will require everyone person living in the country to have auto insurance whether or not you drive or have a car. After all whether or not you own a car or drive, you eventually will need to be in a vehicle to go to the grocery store, theater, shopping, etc. So if your going in a vehicle you should be required to have auto insurance. After all it's only fair that you share in the costs of everyone else so that they can have car insurance. Hmmmm....why does that sound familiar.

A person with some real common sense... - nnn

[ In Reply To ..]
What a breath of fresh air.. :)

Haha!This is rididulous! Everybody has a body, not everybody has a car! - duh?

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

but everyone does ride in vehicles to get to and from places - anon

[ In Reply To ..]
Everybody has to travel in a vehicle whether or not they drive. And the statement of everybody has a body is ridiculous. Not everybody is sick. Not everybody has cancer or leukemia. Every healthy person should not have to now pay over hundreds of dollars to pay for other people who are not paying for health care but are demanding it. Don't sit there and tell me now I have to fork over $400 a month so John and Jack and Jose and Maria and Tommy, etc all can go to the doctor all the time if they want, after all they won't be paying for it - I will. Don't tell me it's my responsibility to pay for other people I don't even know I have to pay for their health care. That is ridiculous.

The "it is all about me" attitude, the selfishness - and the unending

[ In Reply To ..]
ability to have absolutely no problem with it is ridiculous.

In an humane society the "have ones" have to help the "have nots," - helping

[ In Reply To ..]
it is what it is, get used to it.

If we do not help poor people the crime rate will rise, how about that?

Are you always so bitter and selfish?
I assume, reading your posts and your mind, you never give anybody a helping hand, not even your children, if you have ones.

Nothing wrong with a helping hand... - nnn

[ In Reply To ..]
Most people want to ride on your back and complain while they're up there. ;)

Similar Messages:

Mar 29, 2017
Approximately 6.5 million taxpayers paid $3 billion in Obamacare penalties for not having health insurance in 2016, according to preliminary data from the Internal Revenue Service Commissioner John Koskinen. Beginning in 2014, the Affordable Care Act’s individual mandate required that Americans purchase health care coverage or pay a penalty to the Internal Revenue Service. While the number of taxpayers paying the penalty has declined since 2014, the total amount in penalties paid to th ...

Oct 07, 2012
Hospitals who re-admit patients within 30 days after they were discharged will now have to, under an Obamacare provision, pay fines as of October 1, 2012, which could force hospitals to slash programs that help the elderly, the poor, and the chronically ill. -- Tony Lee ...

Jan 27, 2010
Have had a stiff neck for 3 days. Started on the right side, now on both sides. Hurts to turn in either direction. Tried heat, rubs, ibuprofen, but as soon as the ibuprofen starts to wear off it returns. Last night I sat up in a recliner and without moving my neck, my right neck up to my ear and down to my collar bone hurt. This morning it is just on both sides. I am going to take a few more ibuprofens, lay down, and then will check back here later. No fevers, no chills, no trauma, do not ...

Apr 15, 2012
I was just wondering if anyone else has this problem. Sometimes my finger joints, knees, wrists, and ankles get so stiff that I cannot move them unless I pop them. Sometimes they hurt extremely bad until I pop them, sometimes no pain, and sometimes they just won't pop. This is something that I have been dealing with for as long as I can remember, so it isn't something that has been caused by the sitting from doing MT or anything like that. I have had one doctor ...

Nov 06, 2015
Dem presidential candidate and top aides signed NDAs warning against 'negligent handling' of classified information. As the nation's chief diplomat, Hillary Clinton was responsible for ascertaining whether information in her possession was classified and acknowledged that "negligent handling" of that information could jeopardize national security, according to a copy of an agreement she signed upon taking the job. A day after assuming office as secretary of state, Clinton ...

Jun 29, 2017
Penalties: 228-195 with a couple Dems voting yes...and one who couldn't make up his mind. Voted yes, changed to no twice."Kate's Law" involved penalities for illegals convicted of criminal acts, deported, and re-entered the U.S. illegally, committing other criminal acts.....257-167. ...

Jan 16, 2014
up from a sitting position especially. I have to stand there a minute to get moving. Stairs are even hard. What can I do to keep them bendable? Is it better to keep bending and exercising them or trying not to? I hate getting old. I just hate it. I'm feeling sorry for myself today. ...

Dec 01, 2016
Scary stuff for the average American, but not for those who have life-long secret service protection. I personally think Obama is acting out because he knows his legacy is crumbling. ...

Oct 07, 2016
last month the state insurance commissioner, Julie Mix McPeak, approved premium increases of up to 62% in a bid to save the exchange set up under the Affordable Care Act. “I would characterize the exchange market in Tennessee as very near collapse,” she said. Then last week BlueCross BlueShield of Tennessee announced it would leave three of the state’s largest exchange markets—Nashville, Memphis and Knoxville. “We have experienced losses approaching $500 million over the course of ...

Jul 20, 2016
1) Have it collapse so that single payer can be implemented amidst the ensuing chaos. 2) Have that happen on somebody else’s watch. Obamacare was designed to fail so the Democrats could “reform” it with complete government provided socialized medicine. That is the entire purpose for it. Obamacare is designed to collapse so they can backfill the vacuum with government run socialized medicine. Eventually, everyone will be on some form of Medicare. I believe that was one of Bernie’ ...

Mar 31, 2011
Read the complete article: BTW it says Rasmussen is skewed. http://www.thisweekinsociology.com/?p=225 Here’s a guide to what those polls actually say, beginning with a discussion of the basic mistake which almost all the polls make. Most of the major national polls on Obamacare choose to report findings on what percentage of Americans support the health care reform and what percentage favor its repeal. This simple distinction, braking public opinion into big blocs, immediate ...

Mar 30, 2011
American people still are buying it. They are not as stupid as Bill Maher tells them they are. http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/health_care_law Health Care Law 58% Now Favor Health Care Repeal Monday, March 28, 2011 While voters still favor repeal of the national health care law, concerns that the law will force them to change their existing health insurance are lower than a year ago. The latest Rasmussen Reports national telep ...

Apr 14, 2010
ObamaCare, Death Star of the American Republic April 14, 2010 · 2 Comments A big h/t to beloved FellowshipOfMinds member FS for finding this extremely important and extremely frightening article. Remember what Nancy Pelosi said on March 10, which sounded utterly idiotic at the time? She said that “we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it.” It turns out Pelosi is not a moron. Au contraire, this woman knows exactly what she&rsq ...

Jun 03, 2013
Two thirds of Americans don't know if they will insure under Obamacare. link ...

Jul 11, 2013
I haven't exactly been able to figure out about the insurance. ...

Oct 03, 2013
So this is what I have learned. After listening about the new health insurance, this is what I know. There are 3 levels of care/cost. They are trying to get the young people to join to keep the cost down for the older people. Well after listening to a question and answer discussion on line program coming out of Sioux Falls, South Dakota hospital systems, it scared me greatly. If all the young people join this program, it will not help the older people who live on a fixed inc ...

Nov 04, 2013
Is Obamacare going to be overturned and when? ...

Dec 31, 2013
When discussing the ACA or Obamacare, whichever you call it, remember that it is literally like comparing apples and oranges (and grapes, pineapple and maybe even potatoes). Each state has different prices and different plans from the federal plan. Some states now have only one company offering a plan through their state exchange. Each plan has a different monthly cost, a different deductable and it goes on and on and on. The requirements are different from state to state ...

Jan 15, 2014
Just this week my medical reports have included: 1. A suicide attempt by a patient who was despondent over the hospital bills that had accrued last year (before Obamacare). Patient is still recovering from illness and was depressed about not being able to pay bills. 2. A patient who was uninsured who had probably suffered a ruptured appendix a couple of months ago (before Obamacare) and went untreated. Patient now admitted for an abdom ...

Feb 06, 2014
who said they wanted it to fail, but didn't think it would be this fast. Problems they thought they could get by with for a longer period of time are now blowing up in their collective faces, and it couldn't happen to a better bunch. ...

May 14, 2014
More deceit and wasteful spending. Why am I no longer suprised? Link: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/13/serco-employees-obamacare_n_5317800.html ...

Jun 08, 2016
We have got to get representative to abolish Obamacare, insurance is no good for healthy individuals and we end up paying for illegals as well as Medicaid recipients, it is just not fair for the working class. ...

Jan 06, 2017
For those MTs on here cheering the repeal of Obamacare keep in mind that many of your fellow IC MTs are on Obamacare currently and with health issues. They were unable to secure insurance prior to the ACA and today are covered for their health issues at an affordable rate. You write of soaring premiums under Obamacare but fail to take into consideration the cost of individual health insurance rates in your "free market." Those rates for me were over $1,200 per month for 1 ind ...

Mar 24, 2015
There has been a lot of going back and forth today about Obamacare and it seems there are a lot that approve of Obamacare and think its good for Americans. Some have said they have read the law pertaining to Obamacare. So for those of you that understand the law, and if it is so good for us then just why did our Congress and Senators and Representatives opt out of Obamacare? They continue to keep the insurance that they had previous to Obamacare. You know the insurance that they pay nothing for ...

Mar 27, 2015
Obamacare By The Numbers RELATED ARTICLES Daily Presidential Tracking Poll Costs Are Biggest Health Care Problem for Most, and Feds Can’t Help Voters Like Health Insurance But Not If It’s Mandated Voters Are Less Supportive of Government-Imposed Levels of Health Insurance Voters Complain More About Health Care And Aren’t Optimistic Sign up for free daily updates Thursday, March 26, 2015 President Obama yesterday celebrated the fifth anniversary of Congress&rs ...

Apr 02, 2011
Here's a simple question: Why on earth, after a year, are we STILL finding what's in it? How long is it going to take to find all these "little-known provisions? Transparency - the promise that keeps on breaking. ï»¿ï»¿ Uncovered: New $2 billion bailout in Obamacare By: Byron York 03/31/11 11:02 PM Investigators for the House Energy and Commerce Committee have discovered that a little-known provision in the national health care l ...

Feb 10, 2011
Testifying today before the House Budget Committee, Congressional Budget Office (CBO) Director Doug Elmendorf confirmed that Obamacare is expected to reduce the number of jobs in the labor market by an estimated 800,000. Here are excerpts from the exchange: Chairman [Paul] Ryan: “[I]t’s been argued...that the new health care law will create jobs and increase labor force participation. But if I recall from your analysis, it was quite the opposite. Is that not the case?&r ...

Nov 14, 2010
http://michellemalkin.com/2010/11/14/waiver-mania-the-ever-expanding-obamacare-escapee-list/ ...

Mar 21, 2010
Price: Obamacare Means 159 New Gov't Agencies Saturday, 20 Mar 2010 12:06 PM Article Font Size The new government agencies that will be created as the result of Obamacare will worsen the quality of American medical care by restricting physicians and hospitals to use their best judgment, according to Rep. Tom Price, R-Ga., a physician and chairman of the Republican Study Committee.In fact, he says, the bill would create 159 new governemnt agencies to regulate ins ...

Mar 21, 2010
1) If this bill is so wonderful, then why have Obama and Pelosi resorted to bribes, threats, and arm-twisting to get the votes? The "compassionate" Demonrats should be falling all over themselves to support it. (This one's rheotorical; their actions speak for themselves.) 2) If this bill is so great, why don't members of Congress volunteer to be the guinea pigs so we can all see how it works? (ANSWER: Because the "elites" [political class ...