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Elderly fathers can make you crazy

Posted: Sep 28, 2012

He's old. He grew up in a time (Great Depression) when you didn't have therapy (not like today), PTSD, flashbacks, the whole understanding of abuse, alcoholism, Asperger. etc.

He was abused as a child. He said he liked to hang out at his grandparents next door (who didn't really speak English that much), because with his parents, he'd get yelled at, "Goddamit!" and the back of their hand to his head. So he'd go have coffee and donuts at his grandparents, who thought he was the greatest most wonderful child ever.

I got into it with my dad this morning. He starts unloading, blaming, *chuckling* at what I say - and I got mad and said "stop it" "this is abuse" "just stop it!" and he just digs in more, and boom! flashback! And I bring up how he assaulted me in high school, "you hit me in the head, knocked off my feet, and when I was crawling on my hands and knees to the front door, you kicked me in the ass, and then you kicked me in the ass off the porch, and I was grabbing onto the bushes" and he *laughs* and says "no, I never did that, I never hit you," and I say X was right there, should I call him up and ask him? And I told him he never apologized to me, you assaulted me and you never apologized.

Oh good morning! And where I was headed out the front door today? Oh, to go volunteer at an elementary school library! And then after I volunteered, the librarian said my name and "I love you!" you know because I volunteered and that's how elementary school librarians (media specialists) talk to people.

And as a *former MT* I STILL don't have a solid job, I'm STILL job hunting - I have one job, but I need one or two more! So I'm volunteering! And dad, I just can't TAKE your abuse, just stop it alright!!!!!!!

I can't afford a therapist now. Today my dad said, "oh, so it's all my fault" and it's like I'd like to yell at him "YES IT IS ALL YOUR FAULT!!!!!!!!!" There has been a big giant Atlantic Ocean of problems in relationships with men in my life, not that anyone in my family knows anything about it - what do teenage girls take away from being ASSAULTED by their mom and dad BOTH - and nobody gets arrested, nothing happens, I just get more crap piled on me - the take away is: "Nobody cares what happens to me."

I feel bad, you are supposed to be respectful to old people, and your parents. But it's like I have to be my own "Tiger Mom," ferocious, to defend myself.

I love all these stories about bullying from kids - yeah, well what if it's your own parents? Parents can be bullies too. I read about these kids who commit suicide because of all the bullying - I'd like to tell my dad, "hey you bit the bullet on that one, you're even a bigger abuser than those bullies were, and all your kids are still alive! Aren't you the lucky one!"

Well, I had to vent. When you assault someone, correction, when you're an adult and you assault a minor, there is NO EXPIRATION DATE ON THE APOLOGY. He may never admit what he did, much less apologize, but it doesn't mean that he shouldn't. He should. Even though he probably WON'T.

;

It's Not Because He's Elderly - It's because he's mean...

[ In Reply To ..]
He's not going to change. You can stop waiting for an apology. Been there, done that, it's doubtful that it will happen at this point.

I won't go into my story, but I will tell you that the more you expect blood from a stone, the harder it hurts YOU.

I'm not saying to just "let it go." It doesn't work that way, and if someone tells you to just "get over it," tell them to fly a kite. What I'm saying is that you are wasting your precious energy trying to get something from him you aren't going to get. Try to redirect all that energy and put it some place good. Volunteer for abused or neglected children or animals, volunteer in a nursing home. It's a good way to get "out of yourself," to stop fighting a losing battle.

It's a small start, but it might help.

That sounds horrific - kr

[ In Reply To ..]
No one should have to go through that at any age. He will not change, you know. The only thing you can do is forgive him. Holding that resentment in will eat at your soul. Forgiving him releases you to move on. It does not mean that he gets a pass or that you will forget what he's done; it just means that it's out of your hands now and is not going to crush your spirit any more.

Do you have to be around him? If it were me, I'd cease any daily contact, maybe call once a month x 5 minutes to see how he's doing but that's it. He's still bullying you and you need to distance yourself.

The thing about forgiveness - See Msg

[ In Reply To ..]
I don't believe in blind forgiveness. I believe in MOVING ON. Forgiveness? The man didn't apologize and never will. You can move on without holding resentment and without blindly forgiving someone.

I think this forgiveness thing goes a bit far. Extreme case in point, to get my point across? When MacVeigh (or however you spell that) did that horrific act in Oklahoma, the religous groups had little children out there saying "we forgive you, Timothy." Excuse me, Timothy was not sorry. That whole thing was a slap in the face to the victims and the victims' families.

You can move on without all this "it's okay, I forgive you." It is NOT okay, but it doesn't mean you have to hang onto this with resentment. If this man apologizes sincerely, then you forgive.

Forgiveness vs. resentment - kr

[ In Reply To ..]
No, it's not okay for what he did. I did not say to blindly forgive him. I said that for her own well-being she needs to forgive him so she can move on. Even if he doesn't ask for forgiveness. Then it's all on his back. I don't believe she can move on WITHOUT resentment without doing that. That resentment will sit and smolder inside and surface again. Forgiveness means freedom -- hers, not his. And again, distancing herself from him would give her power.

BTW, I think the only ones who have the right to offer forgiveness are the ones who are victimized. In Timothy MacVeigh's case, the families of those who died at his hand. Not everyone across the country.

I don't resent his not apologizing - wheres_my_job

[ In Reply To ..]
my problem is, and I don't know if you can relate, but sometimes the hardest part is just keeping clear in your own mind what happened - that what happened has a name "out there" in the world, and it has consequences "out there" - or would have had consequences, if it had been brought to anyone's attention.

My problem is, it's very hard for me to keep in mind that this qualifies as assault, and when you're assaulted by someone, you can call the police, and file a report, and maybe they get arrested, or they have to go to court. Anger management classes. My other relatives are mad at him, or disgusted with him, for hitting his daughter. And "out there" in the world, ideally, when people do harm, they apologize for it. That's how things are supposed to be.

If I don't keep this in mind, what happens is, I just get eaten up with self-hatred - and it's like a "mystery" - why do I feel so much self-hatred. Hmmm...let's think about it...assault...you're the victim, but it's your fault you got assaulted...etc....

So I don't vent about his not apologizing (or even ADMITTING to the things he's done), because I'm just holding onto to feelings of resentment, unwillingness to forgive - it's because if I don't articulate it, put it into words, "stand my ground" with him about what happened...I get eaten alive with self-hatred. And I'm job hunting still!!! Ever try to job hunt simultaneous with self-hatred? Not good.......................

So it's more of a self-hatred avoidance measure, than any expectation that at his age, he's going to change, see the light, be a nicer person. How can he - his parents abused him.

Thanks to everyone for responding....it was a helluva rough morning! Although my volunteering at a school went great.

I think nice is a choice - See msg

[ In Reply To ..]
Well, do you see what you just did? How can he be nice when he was abused? You're excusing him. You were abused by him and you're nice. I was abused and I'm nice. I know a ton of people who were horribly abused and they're nice.

The difference is some to choose to take it out on others (like your father) and others choose to not, and still others, put it on themselves, which is what I did for a very long time.

I never "forgave" my parents because they never owned up to diddly. I managed (after much self-inspection) to just carry on with my life, chose a good man to marry, become a good person myself... The end result was a happy life for me, and a 'sweet revenge' that they didn't destroy me. Destroying me would have made them very happy.

So true - wheres_my_job

[ In Reply To ..]
It was the Great Depression, he only had brothers, no sisters, he provided free labor in a bar as a child in Detroit, it was the best of times, it was the worst of times, etc.....

today I must report, he is being an angel, because my mom got on his case. If people in a family don't stick together to protect the victim and chastise the perpetrator....instead of the other way around, i.e., you're abused because you make us abuse you...

Anyway - good for you for building your own life without them. Really, you don't need to forgive them at all, unless you want to and it works for you...not THEM. Life is too short. Put yourself first, not the abuser(s).

Thank You - I Built a Great Life Despite...

[ In Reply To ..]
...all the horror. It totally was NOT easy, I had (thankfully) the wherewithall to know I couldn't do this alone, and I got some serious therapeutic help in the form of a great psychologist.

People have various ways they get through things, religion, psychological therapy (my chosen), "losing" themselves in a career or other path, or (bad) taking it out on their own kids or other people. Life is about choices. One should not inflict pain on someone else to ease their own pain.

Best of luck to you, you so deserve it. You sound like a wonderful person.

How things are supposed to be - MT

[ In Reply To ..]
I (and I guess others on this board too) struggle with these issues. My mom was like your dad in that she inflicted emotional abuse and when I tried to make her see how much she was hurting me, she turned it around and blamed me, like I deserved it, hence lots of self-hatred. Never did admit to anything, she was perfect and I was defective. I know the anger you feel. It's hard to make sense of, I still have trouble now 3 years after she died. I found websites and forums for children of narcissists and those were a lot of help, letting me know I was not alone and coping strategies, maybe try that. Trying to sympathize with my mother's own past history of emotional abuse did not really help me to let go. I could understand it, but it did not help me to move on. The pain and self-hatred were still there, no matter what her past was, could not undo what she did.

All I can say is have hope, you are a beautiful person, loving, and you did nothing wrong to deserve to be abused. You did nothing worth hating yourself over. You did what you had to do to survive, that is what we are survivors, why can't we give ourselves credit for that. We have put up with the most horrific abuse and we made it. We are strong and resourceful, and yet we hate ourselves and feel like it is all our faults. Am I talking to you or me? Both I guess, but all we have is today, make the best of it. Come here and vent whenever you need to, you help us all by letting us vent too.

This might help - see msg

[ In Reply To ..]
I asked a counselor once, "why did they do this to me?" The person said, "I don't know, but it had nothing to do with you." That response helped me immensely. It doesn't matter "why" they did it, you just have to know it didn't have to do with you.

Sometimes when we try to get into the "why" they did it, we decide it's okay, they had this issue, they had that issue, and we end up going around in horrible circles.

I am fierce in my opinions when I see parents being horrible to their children. It causes immense damage to constantly belittle, abuse, etc.

I have chosen to have zero to do with my parents at this point. We all have choices. You can decide to have tons of contact, minimal contact, no contact, only contact on holidays, whatever. But it's your choice now as a grownup.

People sometimes tell me that by choosing not to speak to my parents that I'm holding resentment. That is not true. I choose not to hang out with horrible people, be it family, friends, whatever, and the obvious, why do I want to hang out with people who abused me? Would you hang out with other people who abused you? How is it being resentful to choose not to hang with people who abused me? It's not. It's just smart.

Thanks for the compassion...for you and me both! - wheres_my_job

[ In Reply To ..]
I went for a long walk today - that helped - I love this time of year.

What you wrote is so true: "Trying to sympathize with my mother's own past history of emotional abuse did not really help me to let go. I could understand it, but it did not help me to move on. The pain and self-hatred were still there, no matter what her past was, could not undo what she did."

Well, I'm going to go read a book and have some apple cider. Thank you so much for sharing your experience with your mom (I'm sorry she died, and I'm sorry also the pain didn't end with her passing), and thank you so much for your words of compassion and caring. I cried a little when I read them.

Write A Different Story - anon

[ In Reply To ..]
Your father didn't consciously plan to be a bad father, but that's how it turned out. This might sound weird, but pretend you are telling someone a story about your life. Right now your story is "My Dad Was a Horrible Father and His Actions Continued to Hurt Me Throughout My Entire Life." where's_my_job, you *have* to find a way to change your story or it will be like this for the rest of your life. Believe me, it can be done. My first step was looking at things when I wasn't emotionally overloaded, trying to be more neutral and logical about situations. As a child you were stuck because children are helpless and powerless to alter their situations. The adult you is not helpless and powerless.

I agree. WMJ, think about this. - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
Did you ever wonder that maybe your father has never apologized for these acts, or even acknowledged them, because HE cannot forgive himself. Maybe in his mind, if he does not acknowledge it, it didn't happen. Maybe he would find it too painful to admit these things to himself. Maybe discussing it with you would make it too real for him to live with.

Selfish? Yes. True? Probably. You need to work on YOU, what your problems are now, and why. What lies ahead. Stop looking back. This is hard I know, especially when you have complicated problems compounding each other, and there is no comfort to turn to from your family or passed life.

Today is the first day of the rest of YOUR life. Make it good. Make it positive. Make a list of all the good things in your life. Count your blessings. Focus on remaining positive.

Your father's days are numbered. What are they going to be like? Do you want to be part of it, make it better for both of you? Do you think he does not deserve you and want to walk away and not look back? No one can tell you which is right for you, but you really should do one or the other and not stay stuck in the world between. No good will come of that.

I wish you very, very good things and peace in your heart. Sometimes our chance at true happiness in life rests in our own hands. Did you ever see the clip of the baby in the walker with a steering wheel on it? He looks scared to do death, about to cry, and says, "Jesus, take the wheel." When you are ready, lay your burdens down and don't look back.

you don't know what he went through, either - Maybe he had it a lot worse

[ In Reply To ..]
My father has been dead for decades now, but I still struggle with my emotions of love/dislike over him. What I have discovered in just the last couple of years makes me look at him in a whole new way. I knew his mother died when he was 10 and she was pregnant. I knew his father put all the children too young to live on their own in an orphanage.

What I have since learned is that his parents were horrible, horrible people. My grandmother has actually run over by two of my father's sisters when they tried to learn how to drive the car (against her direct instructions to the contrary). They ran her over on purpose because they hated her. The baby had to be taken by cesarean section 3 weeks after the accident (had died in utero) and my grandmother died the week after that. My grandfather could not stand to look at any of his children knowing they had killed her.

This was Great Depression era as well. I recently found the orphanage where my father was sent with his siblings (out of his native state). I found out they kept running away and coming back home to grandpa, who had married another women, had children and eventually abandoned them as well. He would call the police on his kids and have them shipped out of state back to the orphanage.

My father struggled with everything that happened in his life. He was a wonderful provider in that he worked good jobs and always had a good income. He married my mother who was from a strong and loving family because it was so appealing to him. But he never outran his demons. Once late in life while in an ICU, I visited him. He was asleep, but his fists were raised and he was "boxing" someone, his face contorted in hate. A lot of damage had been done to that man as he grew up, by family and strangers.

You can't control other people; you can only control your response to them.

An important thing - That helped me

[ In Reply To ..]
You can actually have more than 1 emotion at a time, you don't have to choose. It becomes a struggle when you have to decide one or the other....

a dislike, really? musta been WMJ - NO MESSAGE

[ In Reply To ..]

Who cares, like or dislike? That is so high school. - nm

[ In Reply To ..]
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