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WI judge STRIKES DOWN Walkers anti-union law.

Posted: May 26, 2011

Guess that is what happens when you think you are above the law, Governor has-been. Checks and balances. Gotta love 'em.

221 days and counting.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/05/wi-judge-strikes-down-walkers-anti-union-law.php

;

Powa to the - People! nm

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nm

Won't have much power at all when there is no money left - mt

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While there is a place for Unions, the public sector is not one of them. And this getting taken down by a judge will only hasten people losing their jobs, hence no money, no insurance, etc. A bus driver making $150,000 is beyond ridiculous. So Wisconsin, good luck going broke. Glad I live in a state that's not very pro-union at all.

Yes, and the saddest part of it is the union - loses nothing...the state

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goes bankrupt, people lose their jobs, and the union moves on to greener pastures.

Wonder how much they will like the union then?

I know nothing of which - you speak

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about a $150,000 bus driver. nevertheless, an example of abuse does not negate the positive effect of unions on middle class life. also, money does not disappear. It is impossible. you cannot destroy matter. It has been shifted somewhere else. Fix that, not deprive people of fair wages and benefits.

Good luck with that. Dems on national level - seem unwilling to shift

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any money to save Medicare so I am thinking the Dems in Wisconsin would not be on board for shifting any money either.

Please define "fair" wages and benefits and then explain to the nonunionized people of Wisconsin how they should be happy their taxes will go up in order to fund those fair wages and benefits.

Thanks.

define fair wages and benefits - big request

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for a message board. Enough so that workers can live comfortably and retire comfortably. Enough vacation to rest and enjoy life. sick leave to cover times when one is ill or needs to be with family. I wish all these things for all workers, including you. Do you know any state, federal or city workers? I do. They are paid well in most cases but not significantly more than private sector. If you believe that taxes will go up unfairly, the problem is with the allocators, not the workers.

I agree with the allocators....and I repeat, Dems - can't seem to reallocate

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to save Medicare, hard to do when your main focus is not saving medicare but getting re-elected I suppose.

Yes, I do know one federal worker...a couple of city cops....no one at the state level. Yes, they are paid well, and significantly more than the private sector, at least in my area; I can't speak to anyone else. The bennies are most certainly better. Raises on the backs of taxpayers already overburdened...not my idea of fair. Reallocation....someone is going to get pinched. But better the other guy, right, as long as the union members get their "comfortable life" and "comfortable retirement." My retirement would have looked a whole lot sweeter if the Dems hadn't raided the SS trust fund. That being said, I have been contributing to an IRA, just like union workers could do, rather than asking their fellow citizens to cough add to their retirement as well as their own. I guess in your world that's fair.

Yes, I believe taxes will go up unfairly, just like property taxes do when the teachers want a raise. Taxes are what pay public sector employees. Period, end of sentence.

Reallocation? As I said, Please make a suggestion. Someone is going to get pinched and that someone is going to complain loudly as well. Whether it be reduction in services or in some other area. But whatever you do, don't try to limit how much the union can gouge the citizens of the city, state, or country, whichever is applicable. Perish THAT thought.

Fair...not hardly.

What raises? - mbmt

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Public sector employees also provide a service to their communities. This is what we are paying for with our taxes for public safety, education, etc. Why do people think they do not deserve decent pay and benefits?

I can tell you first hand that teachers have a heck of time getting raises. My husband was a teacher in the Wisconsin system and the last couple of years he taught, he did not get a raise. The health insurance was also not as good, more co-payments, etc. Do not even get me started on the retirement benefits. He took a full-time job driving a medical van after he retired from teaching, and I work. With his Social Security and pension and both jobs, we do not have enough money to pay for health insurance and are still having a hard time making ends meet. Guess that probably tells you that the benefits are not as great as you might think. If it had not been for the union, we would probably be even worse off than we are. Unions are not bad! They protect the American worker.

Making looking at this through the eyes - of everyone in your state

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and not just the union view might help? I do not disagree that public sector employees provide a service. They do. If we were in a booming economy and Wisconsin's state economy was booming, there would be no issue. That is not the case here, but that never matters to a union, and THAT is the problem. They do not understand when to say whoa. Not in their vocabulary. Any idea how long it has since most private sector employees have gotten a raise? I would venture a guess a lot longer than a union employee, and IF they are fortunate enough to even have a job with an over 9% national unemployment rate? They are struggling to pay their bills just like you are. They are probably working two and three jobs just like you are and don't have a union pension and aren't able to afford health care either.

If unions were really the altruistic organizations people represent them to be, they would not have to be FORCED into recognizing when they need to call a halt, and public sector employees should not resent being asked to share the burden with the other citizens of their state, by getting by at present levels (still more than your average joe makes) until things are better for everybody. I don't see what is so bad about that, honestly.

Again, we are not talking about booming economies here. We are talking about down economies and ALL citizens struggling to make ends meet.

Thanks.

Raises - mbmt

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The point is that public employees have not been getting much as far as raises for six years or so, and insurance benefits have not been as good as they were at one time. Most of them just put up with it, but then they were asked to contribute more until it has gotten to the point where they seem to be singled out to make up for the state deficit. These are not wealthy folks. They are part of the middle class and certainly not the problem with the deficit. In many cases these people have spent an enormous amount of time and money on their educations and the service they have given, and in the end, they are treated as though they are the problem. It is not necessarily true that public employees are paid more than private sector employees with the same educational background. I think it is wrong to single out one group of middle class workers to solve a problem when they are not the real problem.

agree with you - isnt it amazing

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that folks can actually be convinced that police and teachers are overpaid. Guess that is why people are beating down the doors to become teachers and police.

Well, you keep up this stuff, and it wont matter. More - teachers and police will be laid off instead.

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Is THAT better? Thats where things are going, and will only get worse. The states cannot afford to keep them all because of this stubborness.

Surely is amazing - mbmt

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I think it is mostly that they have been given a line about how the public sector fares so much better as far as wages and benefits than the private sector, which is not true.

Again...you are ignoring the fact of the - economy of this country

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and of your state. As I have stated ad nauseam, in an economy that will support it unions are welcome to keep on asking for more. When your own state economy is in trouble, and when the Country is REAL serious trouble economic wise, those are not normal conditions. THAT is the issue here. This is not in any way, shape or form a normal economic situation.

I don't care how much the union asks for. What I wish they would do is understand when they need to back off without someone having to pass a law to insure they do.

Another place I think there is a disconnect is that unions for public sector employees need to understand that a state/city/county government is NOT an auto manufacturing plant who can just raise the price of the car. The money coming into the state/city/county is tax money, coming directly out of the pockets of the other workers in the state/city/county.

You just keep ignoring that issue, and the issue of the economic times we are living in right now.

Apparently you did not read a thing I said - mbmt

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The public sector employees had agreed to the wage and benefit concessions. You just keep ignoring that fact.

Nice attempt at deflection, but that is not the - issue and you know it.

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the issue is the economy! I am all for teachers and police officers and anyone else getting as much money as they can for the job they do when the economy will support it. Have you taken a look around lately? This is NOT the time to be gouging state, city, or any government for higher wages. Especially not in a state that is already struggling. What about the rest of the workers in Wisconsin? They can just eat peanut butter while the public sector eats steak? Seriously??

The state of wisconsin is not a tennis shoe factory that can just raise the price of Nikes. Tax money, that's it. That's where it ALL has to come from.

Why do you post something you know isn't true?

The anti-collective bargaining bill - mbmt

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This bill has nothing whatsoever to do with saving the taxpayers of Wisconsin any money. Before you go off on the economy tangent, perhaps you need to read about what the anti-collective bargaining bill really is all about. Then tell me how that bill saves the taxpayers money.

Then identify the "real" problem. Wisconsin - is in financial trouble,

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right? It stands to reason that salaries, bennies, etc. of the public sector employees comprise a large part of the budget, right? So in order to pay even more out on wages and benefits, taxes will have to come up to pay those AND balance the budget. Bear in mind, Wisconsin can't print up more money like the current US administration is. When your till is empty, its empty. Unions are not being singled out. Since they are the only group that are public sector employees, their job and how they are paid is what singles them out. And when taxes go up, it not only impacts the same people who want a raise, it impacts the rest of the workers in the state who do not enjoy the same benefits and wages that the public sector is getting NOW.

I still don't understand how you rationalize in your mind that raising taxes on fellow Wisconsinites in a bad economy and with a state government in trouble so that the union employees can get a raise is a good thing.

If the state government fails, won't matter if the union got the public sector people a raise or not. If the situation gets worse because of the raises, there would have to be a layoff to keep the state from going bankrupt. Who wins then? No one, and the union moves on to greener pastures.

Taking away collective bargaining - mbmt

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Besides, stripping nearly all collective bargaining rights away from public employees does not save the taxpayers one dime. That is what this lawsuit was about. Ask Scott Walker if you don't believe me. He will tell you it is true if he has one lick of truth in him.

as I recall the union members were willing - to make concessions

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and in fact did, but what walker wanted was union busting, not "cost saving."

WRONG!! You people dont even know the facts.nm - Taxpayer

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nm

see inside - youpeople

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Wisconsin's unions have already agreed to $30 million in pay cuts and to increase their members' pension and insurance contributions. The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reports:

Earlier Friday, Marty Beil, head of the Wisconsin State Employees Union, said his members would agree to pay more of their pension contributions and health insurance benefits as Walker is demanding. But Beil said his union would never agree to give up decades-old bargaining rights.

Beil's union is part of AFSCME, the largest state and local employee union in Wisconsin, which represents 68,000 workers for the state, Milwaukee, Milwaukee County and other municipalities. An AFSCME spokesman said Beil was speaking for all the group's union locals in the state.

"We are prepared to implement the financial concessions proposed to help bring our state's budget into balance, but we will not be denied our God-given right to join a real unionâ��.â��.â��.â�� we will not - I repeat we will not - be denied our rights to collectively bargain," Beil said in a statement.

What was the date of this please? - Can you post link to the

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whole article?

What was wrong with what the poster said? - mbmt

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It's true that the public employees had already agreed to the concessions.

You are right! - mbmt

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You are right about saying that the public workers were willing to make the concessions, but Walker and his cronies just went ahead and attempted to strip most collective bargaining rights away from them anyway.

If Walker was dealing directly with the members - I might believe that.

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I owuld be willing to believe them. However, they can't control their union bosses. Sorry, have seen too much through the years of Unions lying through their teeth to believe what any union says, especially were "concessions" are concerned.

Baloney! They simply refuse to compromise. Well, - others have had no choice.

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Collecting bargaining has been holding the states as prisoners and adding to them going bankrupt. Do you NOT know this?!!

You do not know what you are talking about - mbmt

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The bill that stripped nearly all collective bargaining rights from public employees in Wisconsin was not just about pay and benefits. The concessions for those things had already been made. The governor passed a bill that would take all other collective bargaining rights away. There are many things to collectively bargain for other than wages and benefits ( work hours, classroom size, safety, etc.). Do you not know this?

Unions need abolished for the most part, full of - Former Union Member

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thugs and intimidators. I KNOW because I have belonged to TWO.. never ever again. I would much rather take chances on my own than be their prisoner.

Apparently the governor did not trust the - union to live up to any

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agreement. Can't say I blame him, when unions are suing to keep companies from being able to move operations to a right-to-work state. Talk about out of control. The Dems are just huffing and puffing on down the road to socialism and the unions are right there with them. When they can control businesses to that point, we are all scre*ed. We will be Venezuela north and sorry, all of you who so supported unions will be looking around bewildered wondering how the heck that happened in the US.

Because when that happens you are owned by the state. Good-bye sweet wages and union bennies. You take what they give you because that will be your only choice.

Oh, but that couldn't happen here...right???

Did the union offer to sever collective - bargaining for wages

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and bennies from the those areas? If so, I missed that part.

Oh my! - mbmt

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The public workers agreed to make the wage and benefit concessions. They did not, however, agree to have their other collective bargaining rights severed. Why should they? Those other things I mentioned are not budget issues. That is what the bill takes away from them, the right to collectively bargain on non-fiscal issues. Work place safety, work hours, classroom size, etc. do not affect the taxpayers.

Exactly. So sever the budget-related items - from the

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nonbudgetary items. It's not rocket science. And, they might not get near as much resistance to the nonbudgetary items if they were not tied onto the budgetary ones. Congress does it all the time. Add things to bills, sever things from bills. It is not unheard of.

Do you not smell a rat here? - mbmt

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What basically happened is that Walker severed the part that dealt with public employees' collective bargaining rights from the original budget bill and the Republicans voted on this part with not much notice, possibly violating open meetings laws. If the public employees made the wage and benefit concessions, it should not have been necessary to vote on non-budget items. What was the reason for stripping public employees of most of their collective bargaining rights? I smell a big fat union-busting rat!

What you describe would not have happened - if the Democrats had

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not left the state and refused to vote on the original bill, right? They circumvented the democratic process. And when the Republicans turned around and circumvented it while they were gone, they squealed like pigs under a gate. So which is blacker, the pot or the kettle?

I'm sorry. I do not see this as union busting. I see it as a governor doing his job trying to get his state out of a bad financial situation. You know what I see making the unions so ticked? No automatic deduction of dues on the paychecks. They don't want to have to depend on their loyal members to mail in their dues. Sorry...I don't think the union's major priority is the worker anymore. It's priority is raking in that money and being the a political fund raising arm of the Democratic party.

We will just have to agree to disagree on this one.

Political fundraising for the Democratic Party - mbmt

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You can bet that is why Scott Walker and the Republicans decided to go ahead and attempt to strip most collective bargaining rights from public employees. We know that most of those collective bargaining rights are not monetary, so the reason is clearly to bust the unions who support the Democratic Party. The problem with that is that any clear-thinking public employee is still going to vote Democrat after having it stuck to them by the Republicans.

Sounds like you are tradin' in your birther - T shirt for a Che one.

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you might want to read up on Che and see how that powa to the people worked out for him and the people of Cuba.

Just sayin.

it\'s a catchy phrase - I love words - nm

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nm

You have it all wrong.. Its power to the UNION heads. - ..and THEY ARE THE PROBLEM !!.nm

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nm

And now the truth - anon

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This is just one step in a prolonged legal battle.

From Reuters:

"Now that Sumi has ruled, the state's Supreme Court is expected to take up the issue. The recent reelection to the state's top court of a Republican gives Republican-leaning judges a majority there.

The anti-union measure at the center of the controversy has been the hallmark of Walker's first five months in office -- and was one of the first items on his agenda when he called the legislature into special session after his swearing in.

Critics saw the bill, which also eliminates automatic deduction of union dues, as a Republican attack on long-held rights to collective bargaining and on the main source of political funding for the Democratic Party.
Walker has defended the new rules as a needed fiscal reform to help Wisconsin close a budget deficit.

Thursday's ruling was on a lawsuit that essentially challenged the legislative maneuver used by Republicans to pass the measure after 14 Democratic state senators fled to Illinois in an effort to deny Republicans the quorum needed to pass the bill in that chamber."

BTW, I'm not a Republican; however, I'm not stupid either, and believe that all the facts should be given rather than just those that support your POV.

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