A community of 30,000 US Transcriptionist serving Medical Transcription Industry
Rich -vs- Poor
Posted: Mar 6, 2011
This is outrageous, yet there are those on this - board who would defend (sm)
[ In Reply To ..]all the cuts to the rich and are happy the programs for the poor are at risk.
I used the term corporate welfare once a week or so ago, and someone demanded to see proof. Well, here it is!
Yes, they defend the billionaires right to create jobs in India. - nm
[ In Reply To ..]
While you all seem to think that it should be.... - anon2
[ In Reply To ..]some sort of a crime to be more successful than you are. I bet you wouldn't feel that way if the positions were reversed. :D
You're missing the point... - no1joe
[ In Reply To ..]Obviously your little snipe was meant to make the people speaking out against this look like a bunch of Jeally Nellies... not gonna work.
Supposedly all these tax breaks for the rich are being done because they "create jobs," right? Even if this is true, there is a percentage of already established jobs that are being offshored, not to mention new jobs being created that are being offshored... in order to make larger profits. If you don't believe this is happening, look at the Offshore Concerns board :D
It is what I think... - anon2
[ In Reply To ..]Whether or not you agree really doesn't matter a whole lot to me. We don't agree on much. Why when someone says something that you don't approve of, it is a "little snipe," while I am supposed to find your posts somehow profound? Those who live in snipey glass houses should not throw stones. By the way, I do think that there is a good amount of "give me give me give me" jealousy going on in this country. Many people sound a whole lot like my 2-year-old.
And by the way... - anon2
[ In Reply To ..]just because I disagree with something someone posted does not mean that I "missed the point." What do you think will happen to more American jobs if we raise the costs of having American employees by raising taxes? My bet is that even more jobs will be off-shored. The thing is that people like to make profits. You like to make money, too. The more we punish people for making money, the more of our work is going to be off-shored. Feel free to disagree--I will not assume that you missed my point, only that you disagree with it.
That is the story the rich employers have paid to have told - It is a threat and it works for them
[ In Reply To ..]They have succeeded in convincing many of the middle class that they'd better not vote to reduce any of their profits by making them pay the same kinds of taxes that the middle class pays. If we do, they will take their companies and leave! They are destroying our country because not only are they not paying their share of the taxes, meaning that the average middle class person has to pay more, they are ALSO moving overseas anyway, laughing at the middle class all the way to their Swiss banks.
I've not talked to any rich employers lately... - anon2
[ In Reply To ..]to hear their stories. Believe it or not, some of us are able to reason things out on our own. If you disagree, fine, but I think that you are wrong, as well. I know that you are a rich employer and all who spends her/his mornings debating with conservative MT's about the merits of welfare and higher taxes for the rich, but I still disagree with you.
We (in a position to do so) don't "create jobs" from the money taken from the poor - Does not work that way
[ In Reply To ..]That money taken from the middle class and poor does not go into job creation. It goes into the bank or into other investments to make us more money. That's the way the system works. The rich get richer. If you want to be part of it, become rich. Otherwise, you're basically considered a loser by most wealthy people. There are some exceptions.
The point is that the money is not taken from anyone... - anon2
[ In Reply To ..]You can't "take" money from those who don't have it. Many of the people that you refer to as taking money away from get MORE money back on their tax returns than they pay in. They receive WIC and welfare and all of those other entitlements. Taking any entitlement away is not taking their money, it is just not giving them the extra that they have come to believe is their right. And, of course, nobody invests in their businesses with money saved, they all sock it away to never be seen again. (can you feel the sarcasm?)
The posistions did reverse for me and I too see corporate welfare as bad for all - Count me as against corporate welfare while eligib
[ In Reply To ..]I'm eligible to get some of that corporate welfare, but I have rejected it. It's just plain wrong. Many people lose their values as they become more successful. My upbringing didn't allow that. I also know that if I "saved" hundreds of thousands (which I could do) on the backs of the "working class" I would not, as people promote so loudly, hire more people, making it okay. You know what I would do with that money? I would stick it in my savings or buy expensive vacation homes and designer clothes and parties for my rich friends. When I became able to do those things, I chose not to do them.
Of course you did.... - anon2
[ In Reply To ..]I am sure that you paid extra into taxes, just because you knew it was the right thing to do. Clearly, taking advantage of the "Bush tax cuts" is not for you, so you continue to pay at the higher rate, right? I am certain that the IRS would be happy to take the extra money :)
Wow, you know that the earned income tax - credit costs us around 44 billion
[ In Reply To ..]a year. This is one of those that really irks me as why is it fair to take my money that I worked for and give it to someone else because they don't make as much as our family. We are not a rich family, just your regular middle class. Just think of all the programs this could save.
I mean I love people and want everyone to be taken care of, but goodness, where did we ever come up with the idea that it is okay to take ones hard-earned money and give to another without their permission, and how did that idea ever make sense to anyone? Not to say that the rich are hurting, but it is their money that they made.
Americans have taken advantage of these programs. Everyone can tell you a different story of different people they know who are currently taking advantage of the system, and unfortunately, these programs are at risk because of these people.
I'm glad the program is there for parents and especially - children who benefit from it.sm
[ In Reply To ..]I wouldn't worry about the rich if I were you. The figures in the OP show that they're doing okay, and if you're upset that your tax dollars are going to help the poor, whose tax money is paying for the loopholes and other benefits for the rich? Wouldn't that be YOUR money, as well?
The difference is that the loopholes are allowing... - Kendra
[ In Reply To ..]the "rich" to keep the money that they earned (which in turn, can be used for jobs for people with less money), while welfare is wealth redistribution. Loopholes do not take money from anyone, but entitlement programs do. I am not against helping people out who need help, but I am against people using welfare as a career and there are plenty who do.
People who are eligible for the earned income credit - PAY taxes. sm
[ In Reply To ..]This program is not welfare.
People who are eligible... - Kendra
[ In Reply To ..]for earned income credit usually get back more than they paid in, which means that they DO NOT pay taxes. It certainly IS welfare.
Sure, they are made to feel like they pay taxes, but - they do not. It is taken out
[ In Reply To ..]of their check every pay period and then it is returned to them along with thousands more usually.
If you end up getting more back from the government than you paid in, then sorry you aren't paying taxes.
So you're not only against poor people, you're also against - the working poor? nm
[ In Reply To ..]nm
You got it--she hates the poor... - anon2
[ In Reply To ..]what a ridiculous bunch of crap.
You used the word **hates.** I didn't. - Interesting.
[ In Reply To ..]nm
Semantics - anon2
[ In Reply To ..]not all that interesting, really.
The "Loopholes" are bought and paid for by the rich corporations - Not in favor of corporate welfare
[ In Reply To ..]nm
Rich corporations cannot make law (tax law). - Sounds like you should
[ In Reply To ..]should be ragging on Congress, who make law, not rich corporations. They can't buy anything if someone not selling....right? But of course that does not play into the evvilll rich scheme like you want it to, right? Getting people to hate Congress doesn't do any good, most people do anyway. It is the evvilll rich you need for them to hate for the socialist agenda to go forward.
Need to find a new way to approach it. Too many people onto ya. ;)
Who do you think owns Congress? People with multi-money - nm
[ In Reply To ..]nm
Well, at least you admit that IF the rich - own Congress they own
[ In Reply To ..]not just Republicans but Democrats as well. Well...we have a pretty clear picture of what rich guy owns the socialists...take that back...REAL clear picture...well, he shares them with the unions.
You can get the Earned Income Tax Credit with an income of up to $43,000 ... - me
[ In Reply To ..]...if you are a married couple with three kids. I would bet if you would take a survey here, a majority of MTs are claiming the EIC--including some of the people here who are braying against it.
The internet is full of liars of all kinds: people who lie to themselves and others.
I never qualify for it... - Kendra
[ In Reply To ..]We make more than $43,000/year and don't have three kids. Whether or not the majority of MT's claim it, I still do not agree with it. Why would I lie to a bunch of people whom I do not know?
I don't get it either. I am a MT, and I have a spouse - that works, so we definitely
[ In Reply To ..]do not qualify but are probably in no better shape financially than those who do qualify. I have to send checks in to the IRS. We don't get the thousands of extras in EIC, WIC, pre-K, daycare, lunch money, food stamps, discounted housing and utilities, Medicaid for children.
It is very expensive to raise 3 children. There have been times that we were barely over the 43,000, and of course, that meant we got nothing and had to figure out how to do it. I am now thankful for that as I am not dependent on the government.
As for the charts above, the point is I don't mind people keeping some of their own money. They aren't screwing anyone out of it as it was theirs to begin with. They could simply take some of the money they are handing out (EIC), and it would take up every bit of the billions that are needed for the progams listed.
For every poor person who is abusing the system, a rich corporation is evading taxes - nm
[ In Reply To ..]nm
GRRRR--those evil evil rich corporations. Keep in mind that - without them, the precious entitlement
[ In Reply To ..]programs don't happen. Who exactly do you think contributes MOST of the taxes in this country?
The middle class pay most taxes; rich have tax accountants; poor have no $ - nm
[ In Reply To ..]nm
That's just not true... - the top 0.1% of earners pay 18.5% of total income
[ In Reply To ..]The more money one makes, the more that person pays in, fancy accountant, or not.
http://www.davemanuel.com/2010/11/04/what-percentage-of-federal-income-taxes-do-rich-people-really-pay/
What a load of buzz phrases. LOL. - nm
[ In Reply To ..]nm
First of all...there are differences in corporate taxes... - and personal taxes. A corporation...
[ In Reply To ..]is NOT a person. So comparing yourself to a "corporation" is silly to start with. Different tax structure. The CEOs of the corporation also pay personal taxes, just like you do, and if they are "rich" they are paying out a higher percentage than you are, and of course, they pay out several times more than you do because they make several times more than you do. Because they pay out more than you do, they pay a bigger percentage of the total taxes paid in. They also have bigger house that cost more than yours, so they have a much bigger deduction than you. Geez. Crawl out from under the evill rich burden and look at it in reality.
And that statement is an exaggeration unless you have proof that for EVERY poor person who is abusing the system, a rich "corporation" is evading taxes. Also...it is not comparing apples to apples.
No, they don't. They have tax dodges found for them by highly-paid tax accountants - Wish I could afford one LOL
[ In Reply To ..]I really would not abuse the tax system even if I could afford a tax accountant that specialized in that.
Well...hope the dodge makes them enough to - pay for the accountant
[ In Reply To ..]because they obviously don't work cheap (to use your words, highly paid).
If you feel that your statement is true, then you should be campaigning to have the tax code changed. Unless you are intimating the "dodges" are not legal deductions. If they are illegal, then you should be campaigning for an investigation of the IRS.
If you want complete fairness, we need a flat tax percentage across the board for EVERYONE, NO DEDUCTIONS, period. Say 10%. And everyone who makes any money...the same 10%. Nobody is exempt who has income. No cradle to the grave welfare unless you are physically or mentally incapable of gainful employment. Temporary help between jobs,but not unending unemployment, and you have to be actively looking for work and that should be verified. If a job is available that you can do but pays less than your old job, you have to take it while you are looking.
That would go a long way to righting this sinking ship. And private foundations could take care of a lot of those programs that are now entitlements...if all of you who believe in the programs would donate to them. That is the problem...when it was voluntary, faith-based or otherwise, most folks like you guys here weren't interested then.
And ya wonder why we don't believe your "care and concern..." ahem.
Yup, isn't it interesting how conservatives are the ones... - Kendra
[ In Reply To ..]who tend to donate to charities, while the liberals tell us how stingy we are?
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/21/opinion/21kristof.html?_r=1
And it's from the NY times, so I don't care to hear anything about how I'm brainwashed by Fox.
My best friends are conservatives and no, they aren't into charities - but neither are the liberals
[ In Reply To ..]You can go to the food banks and homeless shelters and see clearly that nobody is really into charities these days. Sure, the rich love their charity balls, but it pretty much ends there. Charity is out of fashion.
I donate to charity... - Kendra
[ In Reply To ..]Speak for yourself.
Faith-based organizations are alive and well... - totally through private
[ In Reply To ..]donations. They do as much and often times more than the government in disasters both here and abroad. They were doing it LONG before the government did, doing it better, not LOSING money at it. Conservatives do believe in helping their fellow man...helping him OUT of poverty, not standing on his neck and keeping him there. They do it because it is the right thing to do....not for political gain.
I'm all for that flat tax, if the rich can't loophole it - but I fear they will find a way to hide income
[ In Reply To ..]I'm all for a flat tax if it will make all of us actually pay the taxes we owe. The rich are supposed to pay taxes, but they find so many ways to loophole it away. If the flat tax will fix that, let's do it! I'm tired of paying more than my fair share, although I'm happy to pay my fair share.
Newsflash...the rich DO pay taxes. About 41% - of total taxes paid in.
[ In Reply To ..]Go to the internet, research, and do the math. See how much total in federal taxes are taken in each year. Then try to reconcile THAT figure with the rich paying NO taxes or NOT their share.
That is another lie, a load of crap being foisted on people and the amazing thing is that they BELIEVE it!!!! Because they just gotta have someone to blame.
Thanks for posting. Loss of that WIC program is taking food out of the mouths of babies - That is just wrong!
[ In Reply To ..]How can people sleep at night after taking food out of the mouths of babies, as in the WIC program? That is a program that is successful and worthy of the costs involved.
I'm very tired of footing the bills for everything while my very wealthy friends have tax accountants to help them avoid paying taxes at all!!! This abuse of the poor has destroyed other countries. I see it happening to us today.
I'm with you. Notice how they have no problems with - the numbers on the (sm)
[ In Reply To ..]right side of the OP. That explains a lot about the kind of people that post on this board.
The thing about the numbers on the right side - is that there is no actual "cost"
[ In Reply To ..]for not increasing taxes. We can call it an extension of tax cuts, so it sounds as if we are giving the rich something, but what is really happening is that we are not raising taxes for the rich, as the existing tax code includes the so-called tax cuts. There is no real "cost" associated with allowing people to keep more of the money that they earned, whereas entitlement programs do actually "cost" money--and a lot of it. The fact that many of the people posting on this board think that people deserve to live off of money earned by others says a lot about them, as well.
I'm with both of you! - no1joe
[ In Reply To ..]I just do NOT get it. Let's put aside the food to feed babies, heating programs to help people not freeze, and all that good stuff (which in my book are 2 excellent reasons to keep programs in place... the last I knew people need food and warmth so they don't DIE). But for all of those running to the defense of the right side of the list, did they ever stop to think what would happen if welfare and other programs were done away with... or even hit with hard enough cuts? Besides people being cold and hungry, which doesn't really seem to be that big a deal, dontcha think that big business might just feel a little bit of a squeeze too? I'm willing to guess that a very, very large percentage (although I don't have documented numbers to back up my claim, however, have seen it first hand) of people's welfare checks go right back into the economy. These people don't even have enough money left over each month to maintain a checking account (hence the multiple check cashing places you see in low-income neighborhoods), so I seriously doubt that they're taking their welfare checks and food stamps and investing them in order to get rich. No, their money goes toward shopping for food, clothing, and other necessities. Money is going toward paying rent to a landlord, fuel to heat their homes. All through businesses right here in the USA. Also keep in mind that with the limited money received, the businesses being frequented are your Walmarts, Targets, K-Marts, Big Lots, etc., so they can get more (albeit cheaper quality) products for their money. How much money does big business stand to lose if these welfare checks are cut off? If it's significant, will "we," the middle class, feel the squeeze when big business decided to raise prices on us in order to compensate? You don't really think they're gonna take a hit on their profits, do you?
I guess, before hopping to the defense of the right side of the list, don't think about cold hungry babies... think about poor old Walmart and the like. They'd be losing money!
Where do you think most of that welfare money - is spent? Good ol' Wal-Mart.
[ In Reply To ..]if you don't believe me, check out the shelves on "check day." So if the BIG BAD Wal-Mart with their lower prices were not around, those welfare checks would not go near as far would they? Yep, big bad Wal-Mart, home of the $4 prescription program. Yea, they should be burnt at the stake for THAT one. Better be careful about biting the hand that feeds the welfare folks. Irritating little fact, that, right?
Okay...if you feel strongly that the entitlement programs should continue, how about this? Those of us who do not believe in income redistribution, let us opt out. You who do can give a little bit more because you believe so strongly that the "government" (in other words, YOUR tax dollars) should support these folks. If there are enough of you, giving just a teenie weenie bit more should take care of it. Let's make it personal choice. I bet you would see it in a WHOLE different light then. You don't believe in it enough to back it yourself without being "forced" to through government taxation and redistribution...do ya. You don't feel strongly enough about it to organize and do it yourselves. If you guys had to do it on your own for these folks cradle to the grave, you would see the abuse in a whole different light.
In other words, put your money where your mouth is. Wonder how long that concern and care for your fellow man would go then. I suspect it would go right out the window.
Biggest mistake that was EVER made was taking that kind of "help" away from faith-based organizations. They did fine taking care of those things prior to Lyndon Johnson's going after the southern vote he lost when the Republicans were finally able to push the Civil Rights act through...the War on Poverty that put us on the entitlements slippery slope.
And for what? Because they cared about the poor? Not hardly. Because they wanted the VOTES.
Soooo....we don't buy this heart for the poor stuff. We know better.
I have given, especially to the Salvation Army - and I do put my money where my mouth is
[ In Reply To ..]Thanks for asking.
Great. So do I. If everyone would join us, then - perhaps the government
[ In Reply To ..]would stop "compelling" us to do so by diverting our tax dollars.
Unfortunately, the cupboards are pretty much bare in food banks, et - so not many people are helping
[ In Reply To ..]nm
Nothing left after taxing us to death. And with - all the taxing being done
[ In Reply To ..]the food bank shelves are STILL bare. So, it IS NOT working. Why not give programs back to faith-based organizations who want to raise people up instead of keep them down and dole out just enough to keep their votes? Take politics back OUT of giving if you want it to work.
I do donate to charities, but not food banks because... - Kendra
[ In Reply To ..]why would anyone need a food bank? If you are hungry, get an EBT card. Just watched someone check out at the grocery card buying two lobsters with her EBT. Must be nice to be able to afford to buy lobster for dinner, right? Wait...I did buy lobster for dinner, just not my dinner.
For every abuser of benefits there are those who survive because of them - nm
[ In Reply To ..]nm
I am all for a hand up, just too many hand outs going on... - Kendra
[ In Reply To ..]there need to be time limits on benefits and requirements to better one's self to be able to find a job and provide for one's own self. The current system is not helping poor people, but keeping them poor. Of course there are exceptions. There are people who use the system responsibly and get out of it when they can. I am all for that. The problem is that there are so many who just use it as permanent income and are okay with that. This is certainly not okay in my book. Go onto Craigslist any day and you can see people selling the formula that they got from WIC and I saw a lady on Freecycle giving away her WIC peanut butter. I asked her why she took it in the first place if she was not going to use it. She said because it was free. See, that's the thing. It's not free. Someone is paying for it. People respect things more when they earn them.
Just how many weeks before it's too long for a baby to have food? - What is the deadline on that?
[ In Reply To ..]I do agree with you that there is abuse, drugs, alcohol, laziness, but how do we clear those out without continuing the failure cycle by refusing to help, for instance, a woman with 5 children, no childcare so she can get a job, no job skills, nobody to step in when children get sick and can't go to school or childcare if she did manage to get a job and Dad's out of the picture through death, divorce, or desertion, no fault of the mom and certainly no fault of the children? I agree with you that we need a solution to these kinds of problems, but we differ in where to pull the plug first.I would first stop funding for the arts and let those be privately funded before neglecting children who didn't ask to be born but are here and have needs
To me, that is where the hand up comes in for - situations like that.
[ In Reply To ..]Unmarried women with low income get a free ride to school, and they also get their daycare while they are in school. It would take that mother about 2-3 years to get a nursing degree which you can pretty much assure a $20 plus an hour wage. Help them while they are down but do everything you can to keep them from staying down.
I have a friend that I took some classes with that received every type of welfare I can think of. Pd 30 a month for housing along with utilities, Families First daycare, WIC, food stamps, AFCD check. Her boyfriend who worked some also lived there even though he wasn't supposed to be. We went through a tech program, and ended up getting jobs at the same place. She couldn't do it. She was going to lose most of her programs, and for once, she would have had to worry about how she was going to pay bills. Last I heard she was working somewhere at an under minimum wage cash pay job. She loves her child and would do anything for her, and I think if there were limitations she might would get out there any try in the real working world. The sad reality is her child will probably be exactly where she is one day as that is all she knows just as this lady's mother lived a few doors down from her in the same housing projects.
A mother of 4 that I know had a job but daycare bounced her kids when sick - and she lost her job(s) when that happened
[ In Reply To ..]It's a bad situation for those at the bottom, regardless of why they and their children are there.
I have a job and my husband deploys... - Kendra
[ In Reply To ..]I am on my own while he is gone. I have gotten incredibly sick while he was gone and had to be hospitalized. I have no family here and really didn't know anyone. Guess what--I found a way and didn't lose my job. Why? Because that's what adults do.
There are far too many excuses as to why people lose their jobs and can't find another or another two (as I would certainly do to feed my family). "My kid got sick and daycare wouldn't take her." Take a sick day or two, find a friend to help out, whatever. My bet is that it was excessive and she wasn't a great employee to begin with. People need to grow up and deal with life. It is what adults are supposed to do. Making it this easy to be on welfare is not helping those on it get out of the spot they are in anymore than it is helping me.
No kidding. I had strep so many times I had to - see an immunologist, and
[ In Reply To ..]of course, the kids got it every time too. Truthfully, one of the reasons I finally decided to do transcription from home were things like this where I could be with my kids when they are sick. Even at home, I have had times where I have ran to the toilet to vomit and then straight back to type. When you don't build days you do what you've gotta do.
You are obviously much more educated than the woman I'm talking about - and I am not being sarcastic
[ In Reply To ..]The woman had (has) absolutely nothing going for her including looks, intelligence, and/or common sense. Her children should still eat though. That's my point. There is no law against ignorance. I have been so disgusted with her and with her bad decisions, but the children didn't do it. Hopefully with a hand up, they will make better decisions.
I'm not against feeding kids--who could be? - Kendra
[ In Reply To ..]But I do think that the current welfare system serves only to keep poor people poor. If it were a little harder and less comfortable (like actually having to cook meals, instead of buying frozen pizzas, and having to use generic foods and formulas, instead of Infamil, et cetera), less people would be lifetime members of the welfare club. I am in favor of drug tests for those who are receiving public money and really think that most of this should be handled by community based charities. They do a better job, are more efficient and foster a better sense of community. Obviously, many disagree with me and that's okay. This battle was clearly lost well before I was born, but look at it realistically. Has it really helped the poor?
Please show me ONE wealthy person who pays - no taxes. Any one of your
[ In Reply To ..]wealthy friends will do.
I quit my club for business women because - see message
[ In Reply To ..]Every meeting we had speakers from the Republican party talking about ways to get rid of anything and everything that helped the middle class and the poor but would benefit the rich.
So according to the PR, I was supposed to vote for those things and then use my extra profits to hire people, making me able to sleep better at night. The truth is much different though. I looked around the room and saw people benefiting greatly from those tax laws, etc., but they weren't hiring. NOTHING was trickling down to the middle class, and the poor weren't being considered at all. Individuals helping the poor is not cool these days. No wonder we have so many people homeless and hungry.
I quit that club. I prefer the middle class "working" people. I can't identify with people who sit in meetings thinking up ways to pass laws which benefit the rich while hurting the middle class/poor.
Just out of curosity, what types of programs were - being cut for middle class
[ In Reply To ..]I really do not know of any middle-class programs out there.
I really have felt right in the middle where the poor only cares about me as long as I am paying my taxes and the rich could care less about me either.
Your problem should be then with the way - the tax money is doled out
[ In Reply To ..]in "programs." The rich pay about 41% of total taxes (personal taxes) that go into the US Treasury (and tax money is the only revenue the govt has). So, if the rich don't care about you, then the rest of the middle class doesn't either and neither does the poor, and most of all your government doesn't as THEY decide what programs there are and what amount of money goes into them.
Bottom line, it is not good for Democrats when the middle class are "satisfied." That blows their class warfare shtick all to heck. They want everybody mad at the "rich," to push through tax increases on the "rich," so that they will have more money to fund the entitlements, so that they keep the "entitlement" vote.
And boy, look at this board...it is workin' for them! LOL.
Are you volunteering at your local soup kitchen? - what do YOU do as an
[ In Reply To ..]individual to help the middle class/poor? Do you give to local charities, Salvation Army, etc., donate your time? Why not organize a businesswomens' club of your own and support local programs for these people if you care so much and not dependent on extorted money from the entire country to do it? Get all you likeminded people together, there must be millions of you, right? If you believe in it so strongly, it should not be an issue.
You do realize that without the rich, paying the 41% of all taxes that are paid now, there would not be any money for the programs? At ALL? Because, obviously, if left to you INDIVIDUALS who supposedly care so much for the poor and downtrodden, they would get zip.
That should be apparent because before the war on poverty, all that was done through faith-based organizations and conservatives are much more likely and have been all along to give personally to those causes without being compelled to by the federal government extorting tax dollars and funneling them into things that were NEVER intended by the founding fathers.
Yes, in fact, I have served food in a soup kitchen as well as donate to Salvation Army - and I really believe in and support those organiza
[ In Reply To ..]I can't say enough wonderful things about the Salvation Army. They are awesome! Glad to give them some good press here.
Great! So do I. Now get the rest to join us - who voluntarily give and
[ In Reply To ..]and get the government to stop diverting our tax dollars to endless entitlement programs.
The reason this doesn't get out is, the rich buy the politicians - So our country is going downhill
[ In Reply To ..]Other countries have done the same thing in history, then things went downhill very fast when the rich got rich and the rest did without. In our case, they have sent our jobs elsewhere so that they can make more money. We are left without a way to support ourselves. We used to be a kind country that was able to help others when they were in need. Now we can't even help ourselves because the rich have looted the middle class and despised the poor. We're on the way down.
We used to be a country where people stood on - their own 2 feet. You didn't
[ In Reply To ..]hear of a large portion of the country on welfare/public assitance because people figured out a way to make it. It may not have been easy, but they did it. They had to. There was no choice in the matter. I am middle class, and the rich have done nothing to me. They pay their taxes. It may not be what you consider fair, but the do pay a good porition of the taxes. I really don't understand what the rich have done to the middle class.
I was brought up to believe that you work for everything and expect nothing from no one. When I was 16 and married with a daughter on $5 a can milk, we had to figure out a way to do it. What it meant was I had to work 2 jobs and go to school while my husband worked and went to school. I think that is why I have such issues with these programs. I am a perfect example of where there is a will there is a way. It would have been just as easy for me to live off of the government, but I refused to take that route.
People also went hungry, as they are doing today increasingly - There are no jobs
[ In Reply To ..]All that "trickle down" didn't trickle down past the fat bank accounts of the very rich and the moderately rich. The middle class is paying the biggest price because some are dropping into the "poor" with not enough to eat. We no longer can afford to help other countries when they have a crisis because we are ourselves in a crisis that shows no signs of improving. In fact, it looks like it's getting worse.
Sorry, but the USA has become one of the FATTEST - nations, not hungry one.nm
[ In Reply To ..]nm
Sorry, but one of the reasons the USA - no1joe
[ In Reply To ..]has become one of the FATTEST nations is because the high-calorie, over-processed, high-sodium, high-fat, overly advertised, prepackaged foods are the CHEAPEST you can buy. You get more bang for your buck buying the boxed junk they sell in the supermarkets or selecting various items off the "value menu" than you do shopping at Whole Foods or the corner produce market. Don't believe me... try it. I've dieted enough in my life to know that buying foods that are good for you equals a much higher grocery bill.
This combined with the fact that the convenience of this prepackaged junk or a drive-thru is appealing to people working all day and don't have time to prepare a decent healthy meal is a recipe for disaster.
Just because someone is fat doesn't mean that they're "well fed." Many times they're just bloated on garbage.
well dang it! - icedT
[ In Reply To ..]What the? I'm agreeing with no1joe again????
I'll add that a few boxes of Mac 'n Cheese at ALSI are about 20 cents a piece. That's much cheaper than fresh fruit, veggies and lean cuts of meat. Even more expensive, as you all know, are the so-called organic foods.
Lesson here: Grow a garden this summer and learn to can and/or freeze fruits and veggies. This is much cheaper and better for your health. Start planning now for the planting season. You should begin seedlings inside now.
Could you name some of those countries where - what you described happened?
[ In Reply To ..]You are describing socialism and don't even realize it. One fallacy to you reasoning...the "rich" did not get richer. The "government" eventually took over everything any any "rich" who were left were only because the "Government" (by that time the dictator, like Chavez) allowed them to keep it, and only keep it as long as they bowed to the "government" and the rest of the rich, now with nothing since the government took it all, are now with the "poor." So you have the dictator, his "government," and the people. And, as usual in socialism in the end, the "people" (get the shaft).
The "Rich" have not looted the middle class. The government, through taxation redistribution, have looted the middle class and have given the poor only enough to keep them voting for certain factions in this country. You are right, they DO despise the poor, but until they take complete power, they need their votes.
You are right...middle class has been looted (and the rich right along with them, forcing the offshoring of jobs, businesses, etc), and the poor are despised...what you have wrong is WHO is doing the looting and despising.
The rich are the ones who choose and buy the politicians - so your theory does not work
[ In Reply To ..]You have not helped your argument.
Divert, divert. Same old socialist mantra. - I know it does not help when the
[ In Reply To ..]socialist agenda is exposed. Socialists NOT about the poor and downtrodden. They are about keeping them poor and downtrodden to get the votes they need to take the helm. Have learned long since then SAY one thing and DO another. Politicians also disappear under socialism, so your theory does not work...thing is, you KNOW that. You just count on the fact that by the time all the people you have agitated through class warfare figure it out, they are among the "poor" when nothing left but a Chavez-like government and the poor. No rich other than government cronies and precious few of those, and the poor folks. The agitated folks are worse off than before and no rich to blame it on anymore. They shoulda been careful what they asked for!
Sorry, not buying it. You may win in the end (here's hoping there are enough eyes open to prevent that) but it won't because I bought the crap the socialists are shoveling, and what a LOAD it is!!
Explains Clearly Why The Middle Class Has Reached The Literal Breaking Point - nm
[ In Reply To ..]nm
Yes, it does, and someday these pompous "middle class" - people who want to (sm)
[ In Reply To ..]take programs away from the poor and working poor may very well find themselves in the poor category since the rich want to gobble up the middle class like Pacman and destroy it altogether.
This nation is well on its way to becoming the rich and the poor, with no middle class in between.
The day may very well come when some of these people will be eating their words.
I saw statistics recently that the bottom part of the middle class is dropping off into poverty - so it may be faster than we think
[ In Reply To ..]The middle class is shrinking for the wrong reasons. The poor aren't making it up into the middle class at a good rate and the bottom part of the middle class is dropping off into poverty. I would say we need to do something about it, but the politicians have been bought and paid for by the people with the big money, so there really isn't anything that can be done about it. Makes me think of what has happened to Greece, Great Britain, and Rome. We aren't too 'special' to fall the way they have, even though many people go on as if the rules don't apply to us.
You have just described socialism. - That is what endangers
[ In Reply To ..]the middle class. Class warfare, and pretty soon you have only the government and the poor. Please do yourself a favor and check out Venezuela and Cuba.
You forgot the rich. What happens to them in your - scenario? nm
[ In Reply To ..]nm
Do you know anything about socialism? - NOBODY but the "goverment"
[ In Reply To ..]has ANYthing. Look at Venezuela...if anyone has money, they are somehow affiiliated with the government or allowed by the government to keep it as long as they kow-tow. Government takes over all the businesses...so you have a rich government and poor people. Cuba...Venezuela...check it out. THAT is how socialism ends. I didn't forget ANYBODY. Socialists are right about one thing...there is no "class" system anymore. The government has it all and the people get the shaft. Not exactly the way they present it, is it?
The rich ARE the government in our country - nm
[ In Reply To ..]nm
Stop with the daily socialist message of the day - and put up any facts you can
[ In Reply To ..]to support it. What do YOU consider rich? Anyone NOT on some kind of public assistance?
Rich to me would be over 1 million/year - See Message
[ In Reply To ..]Cutting some of their tax breaks wouldn't even keep them from muying another vacation home, yacht, or mink coat, and they won't miss one meal. Corporate welfare is ruining our country noy only financially but ethically.
Are corporations or are they not one of the major - employers in the US?
[ In Reply To ..]Again...there is a difference between PERSONAL taxes and the corporate taxes you refer to. They are NOT one in the same, and not everyone who is part of that corporation is RICH. Blanket statements are silly and mean nothing.
Corporations are responsible to shareholders and cutting jobs as fast as they can - for more profit
[ In Reply To ..]It isn't the corporations' responsibility to provide jobs for people, and it isn't their goal. Their stock goes UP when they cut jobs, because it means more profit for shareholders. Not faulting them for doing that, but they should not at the same time be getting corporate welfare because they will add jobs. That isn't their goal and it isn't their responsibility. Most are not adding jobs. It isn't to their advantage to add jobs.
They, they, they....NAME some of them and - provide the proof.
[ In Reply To ..]if they are answerable to shareholders (many of whom are middle class folks through 401Ks) that is bad? ANY business has to make a profit. Corporations either provide a product or a service. If they don't employ people they can do neither. And the thousands of people they DO employ who KEEP their jobs don't want people like you biting the hand that feeds them.
What do you really want done? More and higher taxes so they cut MORE jobs? What exactly IS it that you want?
"Most" are not adding jobs. Are they cutting jobs? Name them please. These blanket statements mean NOTHING.
I watch the financial news and I am not criticizing corporations for making profits - just for being on corporate welfare
[ In Reply To ..]Any day you want, just go over on the stock market shows that are discussing the different corporations.
I have a membership with Morningstar.com and they report on the profitability of the companies, they give a "Stewardship" grade, etc. Evaluating all of those things is what they do. The stock goes up when they cut workers. I'm not criticizing that. I am just saying I want them to pay their fair share of taxes and not get corporate welfare. I'm all in favor of them making a profit. In fact, I want to invest in profitable companies. I pay my fair share and I want to see them doing the same.
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